WAS - Matter at PB Nation resolved...

[cledford]

For anyone who was following the PB Nation WAS thread about the bogus Timmy shootdown claims (which was deleted - seems the board owner accidentally deleted every single post for the entire 'Nation from the last 5 days...) I think Jim has finally provided the answer for why he made the BS statements about Timmy shootdown. Despite NUMEROUS challenges, he could not provide one shred of proof existed to substantiate his claim that stock board caused massive shootdown. (He did show an electronic issue with the stock board but could not prove it had any impact what so ever…) Anyhow here is a quote from a thread he posted to this morning – which I think clears everything up for us:

"I am making zilch by selling to Bob, as he gets to buy them at my production cost.

!!!!!>>>>>>>My profit from this product comes from upgrades to existing Intimidator owners. <<<<<<<!!!!! There is also a large degree of clout to be given to Wicked Air Sportz now that we can say we are building boards for Bob Long."

(!!!!!>>>>> added by me for emphasis)

I can't believe Bob is hooked up with such a creep.

Anyhow, I’m going to let this go as suggested – before we loose credibility as well. Jim was exposed for the BS Artist that he is – there were several PB Nation regulars and customers of his who were upset with his evasive tactics and total lack of any hard evidence to support his claims. They saw right through his evasive answers, double talk, technical jargon, and at least 3 changes to the story.

Several Aoer’s led the charge over there – including Manike, Miscue, and Butterfingers.

Some real good was to come out of it – as several members of the PB Nation board (Timmy owners) are now popping by here to see what’s up. A couple have actually suggested that we become a sort of “consumer reports” for paintball products – another had a constructive suggestion that such information be placed on a separate board to make it easier to access.

Thanks for the help to everyone who participated. If anyone is interested in reading the thread (since it is now gone) I happened to have printed it out to take to the IAO. Let me know if you’d like a copy.

And for those with Timmys – Jim’s board has many useful features including a higher ROF – but beware, don’t buy it unless you need the additional functionality. For what I can see with my stock Timmy, Jim’s claim that the stock board has 30 FPS shoot down at (first) 8bps, then 14 (he changed his mind), then more then 14 (he changed it again to a BPS that the stock can’t even do…) – it just doesn’t show in mine – and I can provide the data if you’re interested.

-Calvin

[Jonno06]

members of AO uncovering the dirt,and the truth like usual...good job guys...

[DiRTyBuNNy]

yes..thanks to the guys who provided the light...now the other people who jumped in like it was some forum dogpile..well...please don't do that next time, ok?

[Coaster]

can we get a link to this thread?

[shartley]

Originally posted by Coaster
can we get a link to this thread?
Did you miss the very clearly posted part about the thread being deleted?

[rudy]

I can't believe Bob is hooked up with such a creep.

that statement would imply that bob is some how not a creep himself

[Coaster]

Originally posted by cledford
Anyhow here is a quote from a thread he posted to this morning – which I think clears everything up for us:



I meant this one.

[shartley]

ahhhh Now I see said the blind man...

Oh, where is my coffee? ;)

[EnderWigginPballin]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
...now the other people who jumped in like it was some forum dogpile..well...please don't do that next time, ok?

yeah, I guess I might have sounded like a jerk to WAS... But I'm still not buying any WAS stuff, ever

[gatorchris]

And for those with Timmys – Jim’s board has many useful features including a higher ROF – but beware, don’t buy it unless you need the additional functionality. For what I can see with my stock Timmy, Jim’s claim that the stock board has 30 FPS shoot down at (first) 8bps, then 14 (he changed his mind), then more then 14 (he changed it again to a BPS that the stock can’t even do…) – it just doesn’t show in mine – and I can provide the data if you’re interested.

The real reason any informed timmy owner would get this board over the SOB is the eye/bolt logic. The current boards dont have any, and if you're fast enough the eye will see the bolt returning in the breach and think its a ball, allowing it to fire before the next ball is fed. The WAS board has the bolt timing built in to the firing logic, so it wont accept a pull until the bolt is returned. I had to put my delay on my SOB up to 30 ms to keep it from chopping on my GZ because of this problem, and I run a Halo B!

[manike]

hey Gatorchris,

It's nice to have you over here :) I should be getting an Intimidator at some point in the future also so it's nice to have people around that know them!

Don't get us wrong, most of us believe WAS makes good electronics, just not as good as he says :rolleyes: or rather doesn't necessarily do/fix what he claims and in my opinion there is certainly something dodgy about the things he says and the way he promotes his products.

Every time someone proves him wrong he ignores them and it's like water off a ducks back. He has gotten away with BS'ing a lot of people but made the mistake of thinking no-one would challenge his hype. Granted a lot of people do not know enough to challenge him, and so he gets away with it, but some do and are willing to speak up, he tried to bluff a few of us in private to stop our questioning and it just proved he was even more full of it. I think he got proven to be rather silly just lately and it's very lucky for him :rolleyes: that the PBN server crashed and deleted :rolleyes: all the posts pointing out the issues...

I think the boards would sell well without the BS and outrageous claims he makes. They are good products in their own right.

manike

[gatorchris]

I dont disagree Manike, I was one of the timmy owners on his butt looking for the answers to Calvin's questions. I was also the person that suggested you become the pball consumer reports, and make another section in this forum for it. I just wanted to clarify the strongest point of his board that most people overlook from a performance pov. The eye on a timmy is worthless without a little logic behind it.

I havent bought any WAS products to date, so I cant say good or bad about his stuff. I can say that he isnt very good at tap dancing, but he is genuinely smart. Smart needs direction though, which seems to be lacking in some of his work, or at least was implied with his answers. I troubleshot avionics and electrical systems on military aircraft for 6 years, first thing you do is duplicate the problem before chasing sparks, barring safety issues. Im now a team lead for software and computer engineers, they are the same way about issues, very intelligent and want try very intricate ways to resolve issues when it can be painfully simple. If the room is dark, you can break out a multimeter, take down the light fixture and read voltage. You can also check the friggin switch to see if its on, he chose the former :confused:

[manike]

Originally posted by gatorchris
I troubleshot avionics and electrical systems on military aircraft for 6 years, first thing you do is duplicate the problem before chasing sparks, barring safety issues. Im now a team lead for software and computer engineers, they are the same way about issues, very intelligent and want try very intricate ways to resolve issues when it can be painfully simple. If the room is dark, you can break out a multimeter, take down the light fixture and read voltage. You can also check the friggin switch to see if its on, he chose the former :confused:

Stick around :) It's not all mags, there's a lot of other high level discussion based around paintball that happens here and you may find it interesting. This forum and Have Blue are the ones to watch for the real 'meaty' topics. We'd certainly welcome more people with your kind of experience and attitude!

manike

[shartley]

I think this is a simple case of W.A.S. not realizing that hype can kill your business if not done correctly….. However, that is really NO excuse for his posts and his statements.

If you hype a product (or products) with stuff that is just not true to make them look BETTER than they really are (even if they are truly great products), you will at some point run into people who know the difference. This has happed now with W.A.S.. And the big problem will be when their customers can’t determine what is HYPE and what is truth. And more times than not, when this happens we get the “toss out the baby with the bath water” effect….. tossing out ALL of what the company says because they don’t want to have to figure it out. And that leads to loss of sales….

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by rudy


that statement would imply that bob is some how not a creep himself and do you have dealings with him that you can back this up with. I personally have never had a problem with Bob or anyone at his shop and find this to be insulting.

[manike]

He has another post at PBN which makes some interesting reading...

WARNING!

http://www.automags.org/~Manike/bsmeter.gif

Here's the link... ;)

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118517

manike

[Arturus]

Posted by Paint-Slinger69 -

Who cares if Jim did or did not make a claim that it is the fastest cycling marker. Can you or anybody elses fingers shoot that fast?

The board sold me because of realistic features that I am going to be able to take advantage of. ie:Bolt/eye logic, measurment of bps, lots of cool lcd options, expandability, better "AI", and so on. I am able to determine what is going to make a difference for me and what is not.

Do any of us even have to respond to this...

This guy just missed the whole point. It has nothing to do with whether anyone has the 'fingers' to shoot that fast.

:rolleyes:

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Simon..you're my hero...i want to shake your hand and buy you a beer..

[manike]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
Simon..you're my hero...i want to shake your hand and buy you a beer..

You're nuts :)

But you are welcome to buy me a beer :D

manike