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View Full Version : How about an "economy" e-grip from AGD?



rifleman
07-14-2001, 04:12 PM
I think I remember Tom saying something about the e-conversions costing too much, seeming that the conversion is just a little cheaper from an emag. Also, something about the e-conversions giving the owners problems of disasembling their guns without screwing up the solenoid?

Well why not make just a grip, yes-such as the hyperframe or booyaah frame, that mag owners could just slap onto their guns themselves. I know that agd has never wanted a 9volt running the solenoid because of voltage problems, but that would be among the negatives of buying the grip. This way, regular mag owners could go electric and keep their mag without spending a mucho-lotto-money.

Whatcha think?

randomboy
07-14-2001, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on one right now... http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

AGD
07-14-2001, 09:48 PM
What price would an economy version have to be?

AGD

thei3ug
07-14-2001, 09:48 PM
remember the tolerance problems?

Flamebo
07-14-2001, 10:20 PM
With AGD quality, I'd say $350-375 would be reasonable... Any more and they might as well get the conversion.

a_malfunction
07-14-2001, 10:30 PM
I would think that they should cost around $200 for an economy grip. If you are making a delux type thing, then charge what flamebo said

------------------
When in doubt, duck. When certain, don't bother, you're already screwed.

keebler
07-14-2001, 10:40 PM
i would say a frame for about 275. that is around normal price for frames similar. but if you do make this frame agd, make it with some nice grips like dye sticky grips or something similar. just make sure it is comfy. i would buy one. i dont realy trust booyah or centerflag, so i was going to send in my mag to get the electronic upgrade until i saw the price. well that is a pretty f*ing penny.

MAGBOY
07-14-2001, 11:45 PM
I Think that would be a great idea. But There are the Tolerances. Remember the pics of those bolts from the e-lcd mag?

Chaos
07-15-2001, 12:53 AM
First off, I know I would sell one of my mags and pay $300 for a grip from AGD to make my gun electro. My idea is, why couldn't they make a bolt on piece, that is a combination of the frame, bodyrail, and forgrip/battery (basically the bottom half of an emag). This would be easier for AGD to manufactur I think (since they dont have to change much from the emag, I think), and also would leave more space for 'bolt on' for AGD to work with, and would solve the 9v running the solenoid problem. Personally, I know for a fact I'm buying the new AGD frame because it looks like it will work great, and because I want to have it work with my warp http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif. I think a similar priced (to the hyperframe and such) economy frame would be great.


Another thing this accomplishes, is one of the main problems I see with the current conversion. The current costs around $500. Now take that, and the lowest price I've seen retail for a retro (currently thats at $279). Now, for shipping and all that, without even the cost of your mag, theres $800+ (including shipping for those things). Now you gotta figure someone has put in atleast $300 in just the purchase of their mag, forgetting about upgrades and barrels and such. Emags retail right now cheapest for around $900-1000, and right there you're talking atleast $1100, and its a conversion and not the real thing (to a sense). Take this economy version, sell it for about the same price as the retro or similar priced frames, and you're spending $500-600 for a similar setup as the emag. Much better in my mind, but I wouldn't even get the retro for my mag if I had either conversions.

Now for me personally, I know the big seller for me is the new body styling and all that good stuff of the modular emag, so thats what I plan on buying, but I think I would rather buy a modular emag body and economy AGD eframe since it would be compatable with my 5 mags I currently own....

------------------
~ChAoScLoWnZ
chaosclownz@magcentral.org
<h1>MAG CENTRAL (http://www.magcentral.org)</h1>

rictus
07-15-2001, 01:01 AM
Also some of us have our Mags set up in a way that excludes us from getting the upgrade. Like a stabilizer for when I run CO2. I don't have a retro either. So a nice cheap electronic trigger would be nice. A simple way would be to make it purely an electronic trigger only with no frills. I don't care about bursts and readouts, if I did I'd buy an E-Mag. Just the same frame with a sensor and small board to control solenoid every shot. What do you guys think about that? Keep it real simple so we can get that electro feeling trigger.

Also if tolerences were that much of a problem for AGD would they be making a double trigger add on frame as we speak?

[This message has been edited by rictus (edited 07-15-2001).]

st6212
07-15-2001, 01:31 AM
This was discussed ages ago, when the AGD .45 frame was in the design stages.

Myself and a few others really wanted and tried to push for an electro upgrade back then.

But from the responses against/or lack thereof....it seemed like, "Forget it...it ain't gonna happen" kinda situation.

Since the idea is brought up again.....OOHH YEAH!!!!

In a previous post, Tom posted a description of the problem with the conversion and I offered an idea on how to cirumvent that, no reply back on its feasibility.

One thing I never mentioned though about having an E-mag upgrade is. I think the best thing to do is just have an electro only upgrade. And not worry about having the feature of switching between electro and mechanical mode like that of the E-mag.

That in itself should cut costs down. Price-wise I think about the price of a Hyperframe. Maybe the price between a boo-yaah and a hyperframe.

Other costs savers is to reduce the number of features, as I think alot of people don't have the use for all that. As a tourney player, I have no use for the array of features found on alot of electro's. Do Angels have temperature reading yet? http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

The advantage of electro is absolutely no short-stroking(yes, you can still short-stroke with a Retro) and you can keep up with the fire-rate with all the other electro's out there. Also, your aim can be improved....part of the inaccuracy in firing a mechanical marker, is the movement of the trigger. Warpig's review on the Hyperframe noticed this, they were able to shoot better/accurate with the Hyperframe than they could in mechanical mode.

lonsch
07-15-2001, 12:17 PM
I don't see why they cant make one like the center flag but use a bigger solenoid and the 18volt battery pack from the emag.

rifleman
07-15-2001, 03:59 PM
Oh, I'd say about 300 or so, just enough to keep up with the competition. Of course, if AGD did come out with an economy egrip, there wouldn't be any competition, why would someone buy anything else?

I wonder if this thing could actually happen? hmm....

mykroft
07-15-2001, 04:05 PM
I'll buy one, as long as it's under $600cdn, call it $350USD (we pay silly markup as well as conversion), one thing, I have no need of silly LCD, burst/turbo/Full-Auto modes, make it like BM2K, open grip, set ROF, go, and make it take stickies, I would rather have stickies than fancy features that I'll never use. ReTro compatability would be essential too. Little LCD would be OK, I'd still buy it, but if you go that route, please then make it take Angel LCD grips, as Dye just brough out LCD stickies.

------------------
Mykroft Holmes IV
------------------
My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
16" CP .689
14" JnJ Stainless
Ring trigger
WGP Reg.
Diamond Labs Ti Reg Adjuster.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA

Accuracy By Volume is not the answer

Rooster
07-15-2001, 04:07 PM
I play in several tournements that only allow semiguns, as in, no electros. On the otehr hand others you can use the electros. A bolt on mod would be great for my fairly stock mag. It would give me the competitive advantage of an electro pull, and not have to go waaaaay out of my budget to get an electro, even a cheap one.

If this is possible, I'd do my best to put down 275 - 300 for it.

Rooster

Chaos
07-15-2001, 04:17 PM
This sounds good, lets see if I can get a list going

-Economy Electro Grip, priced around $250-300 retail.
-Needs to be bolt-on, no sending into AGD (or do you guys not mind sending it in?)
-Small LCD screen would be nice but not needed
-Take Dye/Angel LCD Stickies
-Doesn't need all the pretty features, semi only is fine (I'd like a burst personally..)
-Tourniment Legal
-Doesn't need the mechanical/electro switch
-Retro/A.I.R. Valve Compatability (both)

Feel free to edit that list, just want to get something we all understand, and take the main points of what we want in this grip (if it does become available)

So...., whats the word? Tom?

------------------
~ChAoScLoWnZ
chaosclownz@magcentral.org
<h1>MAG CENTRAL (http://www.magcentral.org)</h1>

rifleman
07-15-2001, 04:38 PM
You know, having this much traffic is kinda a plus, because I posted like 10 min ago and I come back to find like 3 more replys http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

Just gonna add on to Choas's list:
-Economy Electro Grip, priced around $250-300 retail. **Sounds good to me**
-Needs to be bolt-on, no sending into AGD (or do you guys not mind sending it in?)**I like having it bolt-on, because the average joe can just slap one on**
-Small LCD screen would be nice but not needed **Sure, maybe a shot counter with a game counter**
-Take Dye/Angel LCD Stickies **Sounds good**
-Doesn't need all the pretty features, semi only is fine (I'd like a burst personally..)**Not at all, semi is just fine**
-Tourniment Legal **Definatly**
-Doesn't need the mechanical/electro switch **Good point, that'll reduce cost**
-Retro/A.I.R. Valve Compatability (both) **Yep, yep**

~Warp plug-in
~Double trigger
~BPS adjustment
~Car charger/wall charger comes with grip
~Maybe a revy hook-up too--with every trigger pull, warp and revy both turn on
~Doesn't have to have the magnet trigger if that adds to the cost, a spring trigger will be just fine

All I can think of right now,
Adam

a person
07-15-2001, 05:15 PM
if this would happen, what would happen to the emag? it may not have all the features, but most people would get the economy grip.

But back to the topic:
-$250 to $300 sounds resonable or lower?
-No LCD.it will lower the price
-Just semi, hardly anybody uses the burst modes
-like the people before said, no mech./electro. switch
-since there will be no burst modes it is pretty much tournament legal, except safety which is standard
-x2 finger trigger
-rechargable battery! it will save money in the long run with car adapter and wall adapter

We got to remember its got to be economical, not the emag. the only "fancy" feature i would like is a rechargable battery with car and wall charger, i hate changing $4-$5 batterys which everyone would probably agree.

Richy_C
07-15-2001, 07:35 PM
So i says

Straight up semi
Memory free battires
noLCD, maybe an LED but really, i could care less
Standard .45 frame set, make it more universal
Let it fit any mag
MECHANICAL SAFTY!!!!!! dunno, but i feel strong about that
Quality before price

User
07-15-2001, 08:20 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
-Small LCD screen would be nice but not needed
</font>

This comes into conflict with one of the Angel's downsides. Supposedly the readouts on the LCD screens have to be "burned" into them instead of just stored and generated from memory like the LED's on the E-Mag. Thus, the E-Mag's LED, while primitive-looking, serves a more useful function as it is able to be updated without replacing or creating a new component for every upgrade, which is why AGD went with the LED instead of an LCD like the Angel...or at least that's what I heard a while ago.

But besides all that, the EC-Grip seems like a nice addition to AGD's product line.

[This message has been edited by User (edited 07-15-2001).]

rictus
07-15-2001, 08:43 PM
I know that so far its only thr NPPL, but I wouldn't doubt that other circuits will follow suit. Starting next year any gun with burst, auto, turbo EVEN if it can be locked out are not allowed! So a burst mode with a lock is still illegal in the NPPL. I know most of us don't need to worry about that, but something to consider.

MicroB
07-15-2001, 09:38 PM
I would be interested, if it was tourney legal. I too don't care for bursts or full auto, not necessary if trigger pull is light enough. If parts were cut down to limit these functions I would be VERY INTERESTED IN A Z-GRIP http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif version. I would be willing to pay $200-$300. It would also be nice if it fit all mags RT, MAG, and Modular body.

------------------
2001 Micromag RT w/68-4500, Z-grip and Lapco big Shot.

MAGgot Man
07-15-2001, 10:11 PM
-As for cost I'd only say...make it competitively priced
-No LCD.it will lower the price(a couple of LEDs would be just fine)
-semi and maybe Autoresponse OR Full Auto(for the scenario players)
-I WOULD like to see mech./electro. switch(To me thats what sets the Emag a step above the rest...versatility is the name of the game. Murphys law would apply here "What can go wron WILL go wrong." I would pay extra for that.)
-x2 finger trigger
-rechargeable battery! it will save money in the long run with car adapter and wall adapter
-and an intellifeed port(again I personally would pay extra for that)


[This message has been edited by MAGgot Man (edited 07-15-2001).]

Chaos
07-15-2001, 11:25 PM
OK to update the list: (can we get some AGD advice here, on if this is even a consideration?)

-Economy Electro Grip, priced around $250-300 retail. (competitively)
-Needs to be bolt-on, no sending into AGD
-Small LED screen would be nice but not needed
-Take Dye/Angel LCD Stickies
-Doesn't need all the pretty features, semi only is fine
-Tourniment Legal
-Doesn't need the mechanical/electro switch
-Retro/A.I.R. Valve Compatability (both)
-Warp plug-in
-Double trigger (personally I'd like something like the boo-yah frame, I prefer single trigger but I know most prefer double)
-BPS adjustment
-Car charger/wall charger comes with grip
-Magnetic or Spring trigger (doesnt matter, whichever is cheaper)
-Rechargable Battery

------------------
~ChAoScLoWnZ
chaosclownz@magcentral.org
MAG CENTRAL (http://www.magcentral.org)

[This message has been edited by Chaos (edited 07-16-2001).]

st6212
07-16-2001, 12:42 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Chaos:
OK to update the list: (can we get some AGD advice here, on if this is even a consideration?)

-Economy Electro Grip, priced around $250-300 retail. (competitively)
-Needs to be bolt-on, no sending into AGD
-Small LED screen would be nice but not needed
-Take Dye/Angel LCD Stickies
-Doesn't need all the pretty features, semi only is fine
-Tourniment Legal
-Doesn't need the mechanical/electro switch
-Retro/A.I.R. Valve Compatability (both)
-Warp plug-in
-Double trigger (personally I'd like something like the boo-yah frame, I prefer single trigger but I know most prefer double)
-BPS adjustment
-Car charger/wall charger comes with grip
-Magnetic or Spring trigger (doesnt matter, whichever is cheaper)
-Rechargable Battery

</font>

Remember, we're not expecting it to be fully featured like the E-mag grip frame.

If it will cut costs down I'd say remove the rechargeable battery and wall charger. If you want rechargeable, those from Plainview would be the go. But hey if they can do the the wall charger thing, cool.

Another thing, the LCD stickies. May want to consider having the LCD/LED readout on the back of the trigger-frame that way, we aren't forced to buying one type of grip to fit the frame. That'll allow some people to use wood grips if they want or grip panels or custom grips or....you get the idea.

Actually, you could remove the readout all-together. And use audible tones to indicate a change in mode or whatever. Personally straight semi is all I need.....one pull, one shot.


[This message has been edited by st6212 (edited 07-16-2001).]

Discostu
07-16-2001, 08:33 AM
Definitely KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Forget the bells and whistles. Make it semi-auto, tourny legal adaptable on all automag frames. I would like to see single, double or ring trigger option.

booyah
07-16-2001, 09:05 AM
my suggestions twords and electro mag frame.

1. the main problem with the booyahs and the hyperframes are the soleniod not having a far enough throw to complete the cycle. so give it a long throw even if it takes a longer time to cycle it.

2. use the newly developed 2x trigger frame to save costs

3. use a micro switch instead of the magnets for cost (unless the magnets are cheaper)

4. no lcd/led display, nobody really uses anyways...

5. SEMI ONLY!!!! please!!!!

all i see it needs is, a long throw soloniod, a 9v battery, (or whatever works best)a microswitch, and thats really it, dont bother with a real board, all you need to do is complete the circut to throw the soloniod and it will fire. that should be pretty cheap if you can work it out.


AFTERTHOUGHT!!!!!
hows this, borrow from the design of others!!! run a micro reg (aka micro rock or something) off of the main air input to a solonoid valve and a plunger to trip the sear, aka tippmann electro trigger. that way you can use a smaller battery, and a lowerpower soloniod. may be something to lookin to.

a person
07-16-2001, 12:00 PM
that afterthought thing, i wouldnt like to have it just seems like it will have problems, plus i saw one i dont like the looks of it personally.

Update on the simple grip

-semi auto
-tournament legal
-use the new AGD 45. gripframes to save on costs
-no LED or LCD
-Bolt on, compatible both with retro or classic
-no mechanical/electronic switch
-magnets or springs which ever is cheaper
-x2 trigger
-9v battery
-good quality
-say $250- $300 price range or cheaper

added feature but i would like to see
-Rechargable battery, memory free, with car and wall adapter( i stress again it will save money in the long run)

Plainview batteries? never heard of them. what are they? rechargable? where can i get them?

oh yeah i think the next year's angels will have a temperature read out plus humidity, dew point, heat index, email, cell phone, keyboard, pentium 4, dsl, with 2 years of msn absolutely FREE! all for the low price of $2999!

lonsch
07-16-2001, 03:30 PM
you cant make the solenoid smaller it has to be close to the same size as the emag noid.
it should have the battery pack of the emag with a simaler firing mechanism as the hyper frame. so it can be a drop in. the reason the hyper frame has all the problems is because of the small noid and low voltage.

rifleman
07-16-2001, 06:32 PM
Guys, on the modes and such, thats nothing but code, it may add 10 cents to the actual cost.

It looks like the tone of this thread is leaning towards just a good quality simple grip that is electric and actually works.

What's AGD's opinion on this? http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

PyRo
07-16-2001, 07:35 PM
Well, i'm probably that last one who should be posting in this thread, i wouldn't buy one, money better spent on retro valve http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
I would say probably $200 would be fair, for a basic electro grip frame, with no LCD, not differant modes, just semi auto, with a safty, and whatever else is required to make it tournement legal.
It would probably cost alot to manufacture an electro grip that actually works. This judgment made on the booya and hyperframe, which cost around $300 and have problems. Figure a frame that works would cost more to manufacture. You also have to take into account the warenty work, and the fact that probably 10%-25% of guns probably will not work with the new frame, and have to be sent into AGD for some minor modifications.

st6212
07-16-2001, 09:09 PM
a person, Plainview batteries at http://www.plainviewbatteries.com/
I think the consensus by almost everyone here, that these are one of the best 9-volt rechargeables around.

Pyro, what if you already have a retrovalve, then the best next upgrade would be an electronic frame. AGD made the natural progression from the straight retro to electro-retro. E-Mag is essentially an RT Pro turned electro.

I think using the same .45 frame AGD are developing is a good idea. It cuts down the cost and time to develop a new frame design. I do agree with the idea of not needing the "Bells & whistles", I wouldn't mind it though. But honestly, I wouldn't even use them or forget that those featrues exist. Heck, alot of times I forget that my Revvy can....well, rev....and forget to turn it on before each game.

Also, I think the main thing that sets the e-mag frame apart from the booyaah and hyperframe in terms of reliability, is the quality of the solenoid used. Look at the size of that thing http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by st6212 (edited 07-16-2001).]

MicroB
07-16-2001, 09:42 PM
IF you don't have different modes theres no need for a board or programs at all. You could just put a micro switch that activates the solenoid. This would cut down on cost and reliabilty problems.

------------------
2001 Micromag RT w/68-4500, Z-grip and Lapco big Shot.

MAGgot Man
07-16-2001, 10:20 PM
I STILL think you should have a an electro/mech. switch. If you run into probs with the electronics(im in the electronics business so you WILL run into probs) or you start having probs with your gun that mech switch will really come in handy for troubleshooting.

As far as a rechargable battery goes...I dont think that needs to be thrown in....you can get them anywhere. Voltage is Voltage no matter what the source, as long as you have the correct amount things should work out fine. Actually I was thinking about coming up with a rig that would let me run a warp feed, agitated hopper, and Emag(when I fianlly get one) all from those versa pak drill batteries.

Also(maybe im showing my lack of knowlege here) what would the point be of having a semi only electro grip?? If your gonna stick with semi mode only then a mechanical trigger would accomidate that just fine. So i think if your gonna have an electro, there should be more than one mode.

[This message has been edited by MAGgot Man (edited 07-16-2001).]

st6212
07-17-2001, 12:20 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MAGgot Man:
I STILL think you should have a an electro/mech. switch. If you run into probs with the electronics(im in the electronics business so you WILL run into probs) or you start having probs with your gun that mech switch will really come in handy for troubleshooting.

As far as a rechargable battery goes...I dont think that needs to be thrown in....you can get them anywhere. Voltage is Voltage no matter what the source, as long as you have the correct amount things should work out fine. Actually I was thinking about coming up with a rig that would let me run a warp feed, agitated hopper, and Emag(when I fianlly get one) all from those versa pak drill batteries.

Also(maybe im showing my lack of knowlege here) what would the point be of having a semi only electro grip?? If your gonna stick with semi mode only then a mechanical trigger would accomidate that just fine. So i think if your gonna have an electro, there should be more than one mode.

[This message has been edited by MAGgot Man (edited 07-16-2001).]</font>


Yep, will be nice to have more than one mode, as I doubt it costs that much...its only small bits of code. But it still isn't necessary.

What I really see is the advantage of electro regardless of what/how many modes and features, is that it totally eliminates short-stroking, you can shoot faster as there is less resistence, and you tend to shoot better when there is less movement in pulling the trigger.

Fine by me if there are different modes, just not necessary for me, as I play tourney they are pretty much useless.

MAGgot Man
07-17-2001, 12:47 AM
I would be curious to know what AGD thinks about this.

rifleman
07-17-2001, 03:28 PM
Ya, me too!

Skyssx
07-17-2001, 05:46 PM
I'll toss in my .02 here too.

If AGD made one tolerance issues would be negated... if they can make a mechanical frame, and an electro gun, they can certainly make a bolt on electro grip.

Features.
Electro only or there is no reason to get the heavier emag.
No LCD or LED display, one LED power/fire light.
Semi, 3 shot burst, autoresponce, FA.
Adjustable fire rate.
No external buttons.
Compatable with firearms industry standard 45 grips, not dye 45 imatation grips.
Trigger adjustable in 3 directions, forwards backwards and side to side.
On/off electronics switch that also functions as safety.
Possibly a 2x and 1x version. (i'd get 2x)

Thats about all I can think of. Pricing could be as high or slightly higher than a CFP hyperframe. I'd buy one in an instant if this happened.

PyromaniaX
07-17-2001, 07:14 PM
*cough* *cough* AGD we need some input here.

ReTroMagBoy
07-17-2001, 08:31 PM
you guys ask for WAY too much. Seriously though, not trying to be rude here but lately any idea that people come up with now on they automatically expect AGD to make it...
look how many things AGD is working on right now and take a step back. If AGD is interested, they will say something!

st6212
07-18-2001, 03:32 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ReTroMagBoy:
you guys ask for WAY too much. Seriously though, not trying to be rude here but lately any idea that people come up with now on they automatically expect AGD to make it...
look how many things AGD is working on right now and take a step back. If AGD is interested, they will say something!</font>

That's how ideas come to fruition. It's all about thinking new things, about brainstorming, creativity.

It's how AGD themselves come up with the products they have. As Tom says, they listen to what people are looking for and want.

If everyone were to sit around not expressing their ideas, then there wouldn't be anything new being developed.

If AGD aren't interested, then fine, it's their decision. It's just something alot of people here feel they want.

MAGgot Man
07-18-2001, 07:40 AM
I agree 100% with ST6212. How can AGD stay innovative if they dont know what the thier customers want. Plus isnt that the first thing you learn in business 101?

daklown33
07-18-2001, 08:21 AM
I dont have an automag yet, but wouldnt it be nice to make it "short stroking proof" thats one reason why im not dead sest on getting a mag, beacause of short stroking.

Make it at least responsive, burst would be awesome i think.

mykroft
07-18-2001, 08:23 AM
daklown33: It's not a real problem, once you play with it a little, I can't remember the last time I short stroked, except when I was out of air.

------------------
Mykroft Holmes IV
------------------
My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
16" CP .689
14" JnJ Stainless
Ring trigger
WGP Reg.
Diamond Labs Ti Reg Adjuster.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA

Accuracy By Volume is not the answer

Blue 88
07-18-2001, 09:47 AM
If AGD made an E-grip I would no boubt buy it for 350. Of course it tould have to accept standard mag sears somehow, or have replacements somewhat avalable.

fenris69
07-18-2001, 01:38 PM
take the new 45 grip frame...toss the internals solonoid board etc... should already fit the standard mag...booya! cheap as all hell and they could charge 250+ for it. too bad initial production runs are so damned expensive... oh well.
IF you want to go further, the new modular bodies could be incorporated. could even toss out the old ones, only make modular , then you could mix 'n match the mag you want. nice eh? but im sure thats been thought of http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

PyRo
07-18-2001, 08:01 PM
Problem here, everyone says economy electro grip. We want it cheap, but we want more out of it than the more expensive ones... Economy would be a basic, semi auto only frame without any grip panels. Ok its only another $20 for more modes then another $50 for manual mode then another $20 for sticky grips. All the little things add up.

mykroft
07-18-2001, 08:11 PM
Pyro: my point exactly.

I want semi only, it must take (not come with ) stickies, and if you have an LCD, pattern the layout after the Angel LCD, so we can use Angel grips (I have yet to see an electro come stock with grips I liked(ELCD frame is closest, Custom jobs with Stickies don't count.) manual mode is unnecesary, if you need it that bad, bring along a spare frame, or pay the money and get the e-mag you really want. Running it off a 9V would be nice too, and Retro compatibility is a must.

To summarize:
Semi only
No LCD
Takes Stickies & Hogues
Retro compatibility
9V power preferred

Optional: Small LCD, Angel gripframe layout for grip compatability.

------------------
Mykroft Holmes IV
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My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
16" CP .689
14" JnJ Stainless
Ring trigger
WGP Reg.
Diamond Labs Ti Reg Adjuster.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA


"There are no Dangerous Weapons, only Dangerous Men" R.A.Heinlein - 'Starship Troopers'

st6212
07-19-2001, 12:00 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PyRo:
Problem here, everyone says economy electro grip. We want it cheap, but we want more out of it than the more expensive ones... Economy would be a basic, semi auto only frame without any grip panels. Ok its only another $20 for more modes then another $50 for manual mode then another $20 for sticky grips. All the little things add up.</font>

Yep, agreed. Check out the ealier posts, don't need manual , don't need other electro modes, or if need be, just 2 or 3 basic. And no need for grips as everyone can get they're own or already own it.

FeelTheRT
07-19-2001, 04:38 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mykroft:
Pyro: my point exactly.

I want semi only, it must take (not come with ) stickies, and if you have an LCD, pattern the layout after the Angel LCD, so we can use Angel grips (I have yet to see an electro come stock with grips I liked(ELCD frame is closest, Custom jobs with Stickies don't count.) manual mode is unnecesary, if you need it that bad, bring along a spare frame, or pay the money and get the e-mag you really want. Running it off a 9V would be nice too, and Retro compatibility is a must.

To summarize:
Semi only
No LCD
Takes Stickies & Hogues
Retro compatibility
9V power preferred

Optional: Small LCD, Angel gripframe layout for grip compatability.

</font>


what do you meen ReTro capabilities...? that would be harder to make, i say jsut semi and can accept .45 grips.

CHl2IS
07-19-2001, 07:05 AM
Hey, i wouldnt mind bieng, like a beta tester or something http://www.automags.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

st6212
07-19-2001, 10:57 AM
Basically, what we are looking for in an e-grip is pretty set.

But the problem is that AGD are having a problem trying to find a solution to make such a product reliable and void of the problems associated to that of the Hyperframe and Boo-yaah.

If AGD could describe exactly what the problem is/would be, maybe a brainstorm session for a solution may present itself.

Techpriest
07-19-2001, 12:24 PM
umm, so long as I was getting an electronic frame, even if it's exactly the same as a hyperframe or boo-yaah, I'd be more inclined to put the money into Tom's pocket than those other guys, just my $0.02

Still though, AGD could make one now, with the knowledge they have, then use the first batch as beta testers, learn from the flaws in them, and then revise, and offer discounts to move up for the people who got the 1st gens right?

AGD, please correct me, or give us some input here, is this in the works, or possible?

PyRo
07-19-2001, 01:05 PM
Well, i think AGD may be a little busy right now, with everything else. I don't think that even if they decided to do this, we would see anything for atleast a year.

ReTroMagBoy
07-19-2001, 05:20 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MAGgot Man:
I agree 100% with ST6212. How can AGD stay innovative if they dont know what the thier customers want. Plus isnt that the first thing you learn in business 101?</font>

You guys misinterperted what i wrote. All i am saying is that you guys are almost expecting AGD to go through with this. They are working on 5 other things that these forums have suggested, so dont get your hopes up. I know AGD likes to listen and use their customers opinions, but it seems everyone has gotten very demanding lately. Also realize that right now, i would think AGD is trying to get the emag and warp mainstream. So an econogrip when 2 other companies attempts have sucked seems unlikely at this point. Plus, even if it was bolt on, people have messed with their mags so once again tolerances would be a huge issue.....for it to work as headache free as you guys are wanting, i would think it would be impossible for it to be just a bolt on upgrade. Just my opinions...

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Black Teflon E-MAG
90ci 4500psi Mega Reg
Freak/Warp Coming Soon!

Pewter 2k Dark LCD
45ci 4500psi Apocalypse
Warp Feed Soon!

a person
07-19-2001, 05:31 PM
hey retromagboy, some people also said we wouldnt land on the moon and we wouldnt be able to fly. my point is, it can be done, just needs to be understood how. if any company can do it, AND DO IT RIGHT,it is AGD. these people are smart, they will figure out how. you got one thing right, they are quite busy so i say another year before the prototype is out or earlier if were lucky.

daklown33
07-19-2001, 05:33 PM
Ok, also, make it work with stickies AND firearm grip, a few extra holes arent too hard to make.

rifleman
07-19-2001, 05:50 PM
Whatcha thinkin AGD?

st6212
07-20-2001, 09:44 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ReTroMagBoy:
You guys misinterperted what i wrote. All i am saying is that you guys are almost expecting AGD to go through with this. They are working on 5 other things that these forums have suggested, so dont get your hopes up. I know AGD likes to listen and use their customers opinions, but it seems everyone has gotten very demanding lately. Also realize that right now, i would think AGD is trying to get the emag and warp mainstream. So an econogrip when 2 other companies attempts have sucked seems unlikely at this point. Plus, even if it was bolt on, people have messed with their mags so once again tolerances would be a huge issue.....for it to work as headache free as you guys are wanting, i would think it would be impossible for it to be just a bolt on upgrade. Just my opinions...

</font>

Like my previous post stated , if AGD doesn't want to do it, then fine. But you must admit judging at how many posts this topic has gathered....it has garnered quite a bit interest in such a product.

The thing about this post is that it's allowing everyone to give some input into what they would like to see if a product was to come about of it.

daklown33
07-20-2001, 11:29 PM
Semi only is a must, since people are pusing in the NPPL to make guns that are just CAPABLE of anything other than semi illegal, da...i mean darn....rule making b....guys.

rifleman
07-22-2001, 02:09 PM
*nudge*

No go AGD?

AGD
07-22-2001, 04:41 PM
Damn you guys keep poking me, ok I'll answer. We usually try and stay away from the bottom of the market because Taiwan can always make them cheaper but due to the number of responses from this post you have me thinking.

So you would want a no display, no frills, solenoid driven, 9v powered grip frame to make the mag shoot in electric mode.

Would you be willing to deal with the folllowing issues?

Changing the battery every 3-5000 shots.
If you shoot 1000 shots in a row it might stop firing.
If you let it get hot in your trunk it might not shoot at all.
No trigger adjustments possible, what you see is what you get.
No manual overide
Cost more than a hyperframe
battery might be mounted outside the grip in a box somewhere.
You would want this to put off jersies, gear bags, patchs, stickers etc.

Tell me specifically which ones bother you the most or the least.

AGD

rifleman
07-22-2001, 05:55 PM
Wow! Finally got Tom to reply http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

Changing the battery every 3-5000 shots.
*No problem at all*
If you shoot 1000 shots in a row it might stop firing.
*You mean like FA 13/sec I hope???; I think I'd be tough selling them if people couldn't get through a day of 1000rnds*
If you let it get hot in your trunk it might not shoot at all.
*Gonna have to keep on the a/c I guess http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif*
No trigger adjustments possible, what you see is what you get.
*It's electric anyway!*
No manual overide
*We still have the stock mechanical frame!*
Cost more than a hyperframe
*How much more?*
battery might be mounted outside the grip in a box somewhere.
*Wouldn't for me, but a few may go with the hyperframe b/c of this*
You would want this to put off jersies, gear bags, patchs, stickers etc.
*YES!!!*


Thanks for your consideration Tom,
Adam

[This message has been edited by rifleman (edited 07-22-2001).]

PyRo
07-22-2001, 06:47 PM
I want my AGD jersey, and patches more than an electro frame, then again, i cannot afford an electro frame, so i want what i can afford first. Given the negatives of these frames, i don't think that they are worth it. Really $300+ or so to make your gun electro, not even a reliable electro at that? I think that an e-mag would be worth the extra couple hundred dollars.
AGD would most likely suffer poor sales on these frames, if it went through, due to the hyperframe being cheaper, not having an external battey, and possible more reliable. Then their is the warrenty work, AGD probably could not really place a long term warenty on these frames.
One more thing, if the battery is going to be external in a box, why not just add a clip for 2 AAs or another 9v to up the voltage?

st6212
07-23-2001, 12:29 AM
Changing the battery every 3-5000 shots.
*Well, how many shots can an e-mag take in electro, or a Hyperframe for that matter?*

If you shoot 1000 shots in a row it might stop firing. *Are you referring to Full-Auto? I thought this was no frills? I don't think the Hyper does full-auto.*

If you let it get hot in your trunk it might not shoot at all. *The e-mag doesn't have that kind of problem? Mechanical mode being the exception of course.*

No trigger adjustments possible, what you see is what you get. *Would like to see trigger adjustment, as people have a preference for the kind of pull they need.*

No manual overide
*No need for manual mode, as previous posts suggested*

Cost more than a hyperframe
*If it performs better/more reliably than the Hyperframe, then its worth it*

battery might be mounted outside the grip in a box somewhere.
*Inside the frame would be best. Since alot of features are taken out, wouldn't that make the PCB smaller or give more room to have the battery mounted in the grip?*

You would want this to put off jersies, gear bags, patchs, stickers etc.
*Yep, put them off. Performance over looks....isn't that what AGD is about? I'd rather spend the money on something that will do something rather than just look good.*

apache
07-23-2001, 02:45 AM
It sure is true when AGD said a while back that they are good with technology, not so good with marketing... An economy e-grip would take away customers from EMag. Don't make overlapping products if you can't afford it.

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-- Apache.

MAGgot Man
07-23-2001, 03:33 AM
Would you be willing to deal with the folllowing issues?

1)Changing the battery every 3-5000 shots.
*I dont see any real problem with this.

2)If you shoot 1000 shots in a row it might stop firing.
*Here is where I am in the minority. This is exactly why I think the manual override is NECCASSARY.

3)If you let it get hot in your trunk it might not shoot at all.
*Again Manual overide the life saver here.

4)No trigger adjustments possible, what you see is what you get.
*Need I say it again? manual overide would allow you to adjust it for manual mode.

5)No manual overide.
*not having this would bother me a lot. This is what has kept me from buying one to this point. TRUST me guys/gals, if it is strictly electronicly driven it WILL fail sooner or later and you will be stuck with a better constructed angel with shot electronics. Basically useless.

6)Cost more than a hyperframe
*As I stated in my earlier posts I would pay a little more for the manual override and full auto.

7)Battery might be mounted outside the grip in a box somewhere.
*Battery relocation is a simple matter. If a battery is to be included at all.

8)You would want this to put off jersies, gear bags, patchs, stickers etc.
*Im in no great rush for the electro grip. I'd rather see AGD take their time and do something right(as they always have in the past) rather than rush things and maybe run into problems later on.

Though my opinions are in the minority I feel that they ARE valid. Im sure that there are others who feel the same way I do. So though all these tourney players see no point to manual overide and full auto capabilites, Im sure that contingency minded folks like myself would agree with my posts to this point.




[This message has been edited by MAGgot Man (edited 07-23-2001).]

Gunga
07-23-2001, 09:50 AM
Would you be willing to deal with the folllowing issues?

*Changing the battery every 3-5000 shots.
If you shoot 1000 shots in a row it might stop firing.

This isn't a concern. Carrying an extra 9v battery or two is hardly a chore.


*If you let it get hot in your trunk it might not shoot at all.

No biggie. We'll still have the original stock grip frame.


*No trigger adjustments possible, what you see is what you get.

I'd like to have this, but if it can't be included in order to keep the price below the $550 eMag conversion, we can do without.


*No manual overide

Don't play on playing in the rain or without extra batteries, so not a concern.

*Cost more than a hyperframe

I'd rather have a _quality_ eGrip and would be willing to pay a premium for it.


*Battery might be mounted outside the grip in a box somewhere.

Like the eMag's current battery? No problem. Though, and this is asking a bit much perhaps, if you used the same battery as the eMag's, it'd be cool if you could power a revvy & warp feed off of it. Perhaps make an eMag battery pack an extra cost option?


*You would want this to put off jersies, gear bags, patchs, stickers etc.

Don't really care about this stuff. Sure, it'd be nice, but I'm more interested in the hardware side of things. Can't shoot someone 'dead' with an AGD patch. http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

As for Apache's concerns about taking sales away from the eMag...it may take away a few sales, but I'm assuming the economy eGrip would be produced in different versions for the various guns. So the sales of the eGrip would more than compensate for any loss in eMag sales.

Hmmm...it'd be weird to see an AGD eGrip on a Cocker. http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Magnepan MMG planar-magnetic loudspeakers
Carver Silver 7t monoblock amplifiers
Sony EP9ES digital preamp
Sony CDP-CA7ES CD changer
Sony DVP-S550D DVD player
Sony KV32-XBR250 TV

Yeah, I know this is a paintball forum. I'm just being different is all. ;)

ReTroMagBoy
07-23-2001, 02:54 PM
see guys....i think those requirements were supposed to be a little sarcastic...in other words "its not worth it to you or me"....atleast thats what i interpretted. I would just let it go and go with a hyperframe if you want one that bad...

keebler
07-24-2001, 05:07 PM
well it seems to me that agd isn't going to make this. so i guess my money is going to centerflag for the hyperframe.

the thing that bothers me about those things is the batteries not in the frame, but in a box. that would be just not good looking. oh well.

keebler
07-24-2001, 05:09 PM
wait a second, agd, why dont you just take the regular e mag frame, take out all of the firing modes and excess stuff in the frame you dont need, then you will have room for batteries inside, then you can just sell the frame to bolt on. sounds good to me.

redrider87
07-25-2001, 01:21 AM
My idea of a budget frame would be a stripped emag frame. Take out everything but semi and keep the magnet trigger. I love the feel of that baby. Keep the emag battary as an option and I think it would be great.

Micromag5371
07-25-2001, 02:53 PM
first of all, you people have to base yourselves in reality. Remember you are not gonna be shooting a shocker, you have a mag and "ECONO" is the keyword.

i would like to see a very comfortable grip, .45 style.
no led or lcd, only raises costs
an econo(semi only) and a pro(other firing modes)
tourney lockouts, for safe operations.
no sear, bolt or pin wear like other grips
econo-$235 to $275 pro-$280 to $315
a nice smooth trigger, microswitch or magnetic hall effect
all this with the quality of all AGD products

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"It takes a man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him."

micromag s/n 003554
need a pic?-http://www.geocities.com/unblood/Paintball.html

pyro45
07-25-2001, 03:47 PM
Here is all I want.

Semi-only 45 frame. no shot cap.

2 little lights. 1 green one just to say its on. 1 red one to say low battery(or just have the green one fade)

Comes with no grip but takes stickies

Battery inside the frame that takes only 9vts. 3-5k shots is fine

on/off button.

the button and 1 or 2 lights around above the grip so they dont need cut

AGD reliability and quality.

Just fits on most any mag

I would be willing to pay $200 tops for it.

BOOT
07-25-2001, 03:54 PM
I don't mean to be a downer here but....

I would love to see an economy E-grip, but I think that AGD will not be able to make a frame with the known and trusted AGD quality, that will be able to compete with "made in Taiwan" frame.

One of the big things is that a 9 volt battery in the grip would be nice, only problem is that it wouldn't work. Most of the room in the grip is taken up by the solenoid not the circuit board. That solenoid is used for a reason, for it's throw, voltage, efficiency and QUALITY. It would take AGD a little while to try to match what we expect form an AGD product in an economy product. Even with the removal of the display and the firing modes, I doubt the circuit board would be much smaller or cheaper for that matter.

I think that we can ALL agree that we LOVE the E-mag for exactly what it is. I think that getting that caliber of performance for cheaper would be nice, but may not be possible =(

I know I will be saving my pennies here and there, in hopes that a full blown E-mag is in my future.

Just my 2 cents...

st6212
07-25-2001, 10:31 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ReTroMagBoy:
see guys....i think those requirements were supposed to be a little sarcastic...in other words "its not worth it to you or me"....atleast thats what i interpretted. I would just let it go and go with a hyperframe if you want one that bad...</font>

Yeah, initially I though Tom's points in his post were a little "off"?

I think what the people on this post needs is a YES or NO answer from AGD.

Will there be an economy electro for existing mag owners? YES or NO

Tom, you may as well put everyone out of their misery and give them a confirmed answer.

Myself I'm already looking at the Hyperframe, just asked Centerflag if they have a chrome version available. Only reason I've held off so long, is that little hope that AGD will bring one out, plus the fact that I reckon the grips on the HyperFrame are ooogly! (Nearly went for the the Boo-yaah route, good god I was lucky I held out)

keebler
07-25-2001, 11:32 PM
that is why i am waiting so long. the local store i go to has 3 hyper frames left. he said he will sell me one for 225. dont me to be rude agd but i want to know now. i kind of want to know if agd is coming out with one or not, not a bunch of questions. a strait up answer would be nice.

pyro45
07-27-2001, 11:00 PM
ya man. Yes or No?

blitz134
07-27-2001, 11:11 PM
the way i see it there isn't going to be a yes or no...i would like to see an electro grip for the mag but right now i dont think it is in the companies best interests...with all of this development going into jerseys and the new grip frame and modular bodies it would be a waste to put all of that effort to waste for the time being...let the jerseys and stuff come out first

i really see agd taking off with the emag/warp/modular body concept and this will allow for a lot more money to be taken into research and will allow for a much better product to come out in the electro frame...so maybe eventually we will have them but dont get your hopes up

AGD
07-27-2001, 11:19 PM
Ok you need an answer, no possible chance for this year, could be on the list for next year. I had an idea on how it would work but it didn't pan out. Don't wait for this get a Hyperframe. I'll keep thinking about it, a no frills frame would be a pleasant change from trying to dump in the kitchen sink.

AGD

[This message has been edited by AGD (edited 07-28-2001).]

st6212
07-28-2001, 01:35 AM
Thanks for the answer Tom. That should keep people settled.

I will definitely be getting a Hyperframe, but anytime you manage pull out a e-frame out of your magic hat, I'm there http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

rifleman
07-28-2001, 05:34 PM
Thanks Tom!
Adam

DiRTyBuNNy
07-30-2002, 03:43 AM
I'm resurrecting this thread from the dead..hehehehe..just know if Tom had anything in prototype lab he wants to fess up to...

Minimag2002
07-30-2002, 02:44 PM
the idea about using just a circut with no board. could this be done by someone in there own hom. couldnt you buy the parts online and assebale it into a .45 frame. tell me if its possible.

irbodden
07-30-2002, 02:55 PM
I say its stupid.

I got a very nice Emag with Ultralite, Benchy Sliding drop, car and wall charger. Also came with a 12 volt Revy and JT case for $525 shipped.

Why would I want to pay $300 for some crappy electro frame when I could just sell my Automag for $225 and buy a used Emag..

freek133
07-30-2002, 03:27 PM
:eek: you got one (excuse the language) hell of a deal irbodden!! :eek: NICE!