Don't even ask...

[Butterfingers]

Since my e-magnum is being sold I have figured out how to do some fun stuff with my Retromag...

DON'T even ask how to do it... my goal is NOT to get the RT banned from tournaments. If you PM me asking for instructions be forewarned it will be ignored.

Analyze this...

http://paintball.butters.org

This isnt the end of it... wait till I get a full fill.

YES it feeds paint. Outruns the Halo B occasionally level 10 kicks in.

YES I lost my trigger rythym a few times

YES it is a normal sear and trigger frame

YES the screws are tight.

NO electronic assistance.

NO AGD parts have been permanently modified.

All this with an 850 psi input.


ENJOY!

[Butterfingers]

I have no idea

[j.t.]

that is CRAZY! i so hafta get an RT valve for my mini:eek: :eek:

[Cristobal]

Yowsers! That looks like about 21bps:eek:


I'm guessing that your finger is not consiously pulling and releasing that many times per second... ;)

EDIT, More: So no, I don't think that just getting a retro valve will do that for you. Butterfingers has obviously done something to his valve or sear assembly. I highly doubt that he is running his gun in the "stock" configuration. Possibilities would include modified on/off valves and/or sprung or autoresponse type sears. This of course brings up an interesting point, becasue modifications to an RT setup might not be legal even if the RT was.

EDIT 2: I love how many :eek: faces these responses have included

[spazzed]

Dude, that is just wrong.:eek: :cool:

[shartley]

That is SICK! LOL (to coin a youthful phrase)

Good job, but I don’t know if I would want it… might be fun, but WAY too much paint. LOL

[Butterfingers]

The sear is stock AGD 4 months old.

There are no mechanisms in the trigger frame such as sprung sears or Auto Response setups.

Bringing the input down to 750 makes it "legal" once again.

The on/off well... ehm I cant say much about that... lets say I didnt have to modify any STOCK AGD parts. ;)

[aaron_mag]

How did you do that? Mind if I pm you to find out?;)

Seriously that was a pretty cool video. While it would be fun, however, to empty a hopper on the target range to play in a game like that would just be wrong and insane!!!

Still cool video.....

[SlipknotX556]

Thats just like WOW.

[Emagster]

hahaha...i think I know how to do that. I had a problem with me e-mag doing that a while back ago. And when I say my e-mag I dont mean with any electronic assistance. It would do that with the battery pack off the gun. Sometimes I couldn't get it to stop shooting. I was scared for a bit, but I got that all fixed. hehehe

[Butterfingers]

It stops shooting when I want it to... The on/off is also fully functional. It stops the flow of air before the chamber dumps.

There is also no abmormal sear wear put about 40,000 dryfire & live shots through it already...

[Cristobal]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
The on/off well... ehm I cant say much about that... lets say I didnt have to modify any STOCK AGD parts. ;)

If its not a stock on/off (and here I make an assumption that you don't have to answer;)), I don't quite see how its much different from other illegal modifications (like an autoresponse kit, or full auto sear on a blow-back). Granted, it could still give the RT valve system a bad rap, but I don't think it would make a stock valve illegal. However, given the tendency of people to mistake stock RT's for full-auto markers anyway (to say nothing of rumors to ban them) you're probably prudent in not divulging the details... even if you have no compunction against showing off:D

[Butterfingers]

if i said anymore It would be saying too much :)

Also dont be getting your hopes up modified will not be marketing this "setup" It is my own concoction...

[RTMAGBOY13]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

[magman007]

nice butters, im assuming run away, with modded on off pin, or your own on off pin, as you aid no agd stock parts were modded. Im liking it. you guys kick arse. Also, hows donny boy doin? i gotta e-mail himbouyt a 3rd party

[rehme]

i got my mini rt to do that to all i did was make the sear screw out so that there is no play on the trigger and put new orings in and it did the same thing it shows the angels at my field who can shoot faster i have a stock frame with a double trigger

[Butterfingers]

the sear screw has not been touched. Thats the way we eat sears...

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Now only if you could get some game behind that trigger, you'd be set.:cool:

[P4ULuk]

:o :o :o............ What more can be said!

Paul
:D

[CockerStopper]

When i had my MicromagRt a few yrs ago i tweeked it up. it shot 3round burst when you pulled the trig. and another 3 round burst when you let go w/o any electronics and the saftey still worked.:( sadly there was no hopper to keep up with it. i tweeked my first spyder where it was fully auto w/o any electronics

[GreasyPigeon]

WOOOOOW:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: that is the coolest thing i have ever seen.

[pbguy888]

lol it sounds like my old tippy when it runs out of air:p

[rx2]

I have heard some say that using the E-mag's quad o-ring and combining this with an Intelliframe have made their RT setups shoot incredibly fast, with an almost instantaneous sweet-spotting ability. Somehow, it seems unlikely that this alone would yield those sorts of results as they have not made claims of that sort of ROF.

[Matt Crawford]

from all the stuff said, I think I know how to do it..Maby not.

[Emagster]

I have an idea on how to get it like that, but you would have to do everything JUST RIGHT or some serious side effects could occur and you would end up spending alotta money fixing it

[Emagster]

i would guess you got the on/off pin the perfect length. you might have changed a few other things, but most likely the on/off pin has to be a different length. I'm not saying you modded the stock pin, but an on/off pin of a smaller length would have to be in ther emost likely. hmmmm, maybe you put an e-mag on/off pin in there since retro valve pins and e-mag pins are difference in lenght:rolleyes:

[Wc Keep]

the insanely sickly crazy. im lost for words. i wanna know how to do it. butterfingers if you want i have paypal.

[Jonno06]

butterfingers...u KNOW you are gonna PM me and tell me how to do that..right...ole buddy ole pal!

[845]

I could do that on BigZamboni's Z-Grip mag. It was set at 900psi. Juts found the sweetspot.:eek:

[Wc Keep]

i think thordic could probably do that on tunamans emagnum.

[boomerfoxtrot]

maybe you can help me out then... when I have the Z-Grip on my gun... it does that, but it fires after I let the trigger go, and then it shoots down... short strokes, and then goes full auto again...

I have new seers and springs, o-rings....

do I need a new on/off ?

[Butterfingers]

Make sure the trigger rod isnt touching the back of the trigger. There should be a little bit of space there.

Also check for abnormal sear wear.

[johnny dee]

WOW that is amazing, but i dont think that id want to do that its too much paint, it would be fun as crap to do tho, you are my idol...lol nto really:eek:

[Scooter/Cootie]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
...put about 40,000 dryfire & live shots through it already...


That must have been in about 10 seconds! :p


Does your tank and/or reg freeze up on get any condensation on it since your dumping the air so quickly?

[Butterfingers]

nope it gets cold but thats usually it.

[fearc7]

Whoa!

[KamikazeChiKenz]

I've done something similar to that but it was not that awesome. Nice very nice

[Vern1]

Greetings,
We shot some video late yesterday of Morphious(he was the one shooting the GZ Timmi/Halo video on SEMI-auto on PBNation) actually shooting a RT Valved Warp Fed Mag with Level 10 AND PAINT doing the same thing.
With paint, it won't shoot quite as fast, but it is still really cool to watch.
If anybody wants to see it shoot with paint, I will post the video tonight?
It kinda goes ripppppppp, spit(level 10 STOPS on a ball), ripppppp, spit again, rippppppppp.....then the HALO feeding the Warp is empty, then it picks back up to something similar to Butterfingers video when it runs out of paint!
A HALO/warp full of paint eats about 1K from a 47/3000 preset PMI tank shooting that fast with paint - yeah, I was surprised the tank could keep up as well as it did.
We did manage to chop ONE ball out of 5 hoppers full at that rate of fire.
Here is a hint: as long as we kept the MaxFlo we were using before we put the screwin on BELOW about 750 PSI, it worked in semi with a very rare burst - anything above about 800 and it went totally reactive when you found the sweet spot.

[Wheelman]

man that's retarded fast, I want

[Butterfingers]

I have found that unless a 12 volt mod is done on the warp it is a limiting factor. The halo B is actually faster than a 9v warp.

If you want to really see paint fly link it directly to the halo B.

I have achieved that same ROF 21 bps with an average of 2 skips per hopper from the L10.

[Vern1]

Greetings,
We have the 12V mod in the warp - even with the HALO feeding it, with the Level 10, it would still hit a ball and vent on occasion, then go right back to ripping!
Simply amazing for a totally mechanical marker!
Illegal as all get out in a tourney, but amazing, nonetheless!!
My 12 year old son found the sweet spot and emptied a HALO in under 10 seconds.
We will have to try it with just the HALO for grins.

[BTAutoMag]

my god the answer is so easy. you kicked the presure to over max. sure it will give you full auto but it wears out your internals like mad. this uy named chad who lives near me does this to his emag and he kept wearing out the internals so bad he would have to send it in.

[Butterfingers]

Yeah,

I definately agree with you here... Using it in a tourney would get you pulled faster than you could blink.

I have an adjustable tank for it when I play I usually set the input to a snappy 750.

They are definately fun guns to play around with... If you have an old mags laying around you can trade the valve in for an RT valve for $200 and really get a bang for your buck.

[Butterfingers]

the input is only 850

my sear has over 40,000 rds in it its like new...

yes there is a way to do it without damaging somthing :)

[Butterfingers]

With paint...

I really lost my rythym midstream...

with paint albeit a tad bit slower.

http://www.butters.org/MOV00005.MPG

[P4ULuk]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Yeah,

I definately agree with you here... Using it in a tourney would get you pulled faster than you could blink.



Surely its still only releasing 1 ball per trigger pull though right?

Paul.

[Butterfingers]

It is technically one shot one pull... but there are tourney rules that prohibit the use of runaway triggers

[Temo Vryce]

Ok that's a little overboard, but it's cool all the same. The jumping macro line was a nice touch

[Jason Reed]

Hey butter was is the exact setup on that gun. and what kind of tank are you using. and do you have l-x. thanks

[Vern1]

Greetings,
What is the "recommended" input pressure for an RT Valve?

[Wheelman]

Originally posted by Wheelman
man that's retarded fast, I want

nuff said

[luke]

Butterfingers,

What did you mean when you said "If you want to really see paint fly link it directly to the halo B."

Are you saying that the HALO activates the Warp??

[Butterfingers]

I meant just use the halo B on the gun.

[freek133]

butterfingers, I am glad that you are working a retro mag again, when you were doing 30bps with your emagnum I felt like I could take on the world with my retro, and now that you are back to the retro mag and doing 20 so bps with it I feel that much better..

You da man!!!!!

[fearc7]

you gotta tell us how you did it man!

[Jack & Coke]

Wow that's almost as fast as my Tippmann RT...

HAHA J/K!!!

Seriously, that's very cool.:D

What brand of air tank are you using?

[Butterfingers]

AA raptor rex

[Evil Bob]

Butters,

I have an old high rise RT that John Sosta from AGDE had done a custom trigger job on when I was living in the UK. He added two small adjust screws to the stock carbon frame (one where the trigger guard meets the grip frame that raises the point that the trigger rod hits the trigger, the other on the back that limits the trigger from being pulled too far). It went reactive easily then, but after adding level 10, it goes reactive if you blow on it, it's insane, and with only 750 psi input.

You do some minor tweaking on the trigger rod length and placement and you'll have a sweet fully reactive marker :)

I've been pulled aside and told to turn off full auto on several ocasions, people think I'm running some crazy full auto electro marker. When they see it's a stock RT with a HALO B loader, they just stare in disbelief.

If I can get my hands on a digital camera, I'll post some picts and possibly a video.

-Evil Bob

[Coaster]

i would think it is some kind of spring or somethign that will push the on/off valve shut, then the RT kicks in and opens it back up. Just requiring a little bit of a pull to start it off.

[Butterfingers]

na the gun is normal at lower pressures.

[Butterfingers]

I have been getting alot of pms concerning how I did it... to address some of your concerns...

There is nothing abnormal about the gun it is simply the RT valve doing its job. No trickery or strange mechanisms.

[Cristobal]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
I have been getting alot of pms concerning how I did it... to address some of your concerns...

There is nothing abnormal about the gun it is simply the RT valve doing its job. No trickery or strange mechanisms.

Strange mechanism, huh? So that's what you call the little elf critters...:D

Seriously though, I've never seen a stock ReTro do that on 800 psi -- you've obviously made a subtle deviation from the valve's stock setup. (And if I were to guess, it would take dial calipers to prove;))

[Jack & Coke]

LOL @ Butterfingers

"..I know something you don't know... nah nah na nah nah..." :)

[rudy]

hey I forgot how to extract the sound file from a video can someone please remind me.
It would be nice if someone tell us how many bps it gets too.

Some time ago I had an idea to make a retro more reactive I wonder if butter did something similar. Take the on/off pin and machine a bigger head or top of it so it kicks back with more force. and maybe make it a tad shorter. I think some old on off assemblies did this. I didnt have a machine shop or money to try it out though. you could probably even use a regular mags lager on off oring. or the z-valve or whatever they called it

[Cristobal]

If you read my first post, you'll see its 21 bps. I'd post a screen-shot of it in soundforge, but I think I deleted the file. Its not hard to get a sound file though, the simplest way is just to start recording with an audio program and then play the video.

[cledford]

Originally posted by rx2
I have heard some say that using the E-mag's quad o-ring and combining this with an Intelliframe have made their RT setups shoot incredibly fast, with an almost instantaneous sweet-spotting ability. Somehow, it seems unlikely that this alone would yield those sorts of results as they have not made claims of that sort of ROF.

Not true, in my case. I run my emag valve on an intelliframe mag and do not find it as fast as the RT. I think the better sear/rail assembly in the RT helps with smoothness/ROF. There is a big differnce in the relationship between the mag rail and sear and that in the RT/RTPro/Emag.

-Calvin

[bornl33t]

hmm... Nice butters,, ya beat me, I did that by accident on a retro about 2 years ago.. but without level 10 is was unpractical and I had to call up AGD for parts :D
to the rest of you, about 1 in 10 would acctually have the patience to do this... so just be happy wiht what ya got....

My question for you is how is hte consistency? I noticed back in the day on a extreme cold/warm day it would have severe problems does bringing the input preshure down resolve that or do you have backup parts?

[ogre55]

The thing sounds like a lawnmower.

Ogre

[Butterfingers]

consistency is great. Ther is also no abnormal wear. The last 5 shot string recorded...

257, 258, 257, 259, 257

that got me all giddy!

usually its +/- 5 though

[luke]

I remember this post from June.:D

http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38008

Did you perhaps replace the spacers with the LVL 10.

[Butterfingers]

yeah, my previous venture pales in comparison with this venture.

The level 7 setup maybe gave me maybe 14 bps at most.

[Vern1]

Greetings,
Here you go, first half is with paint, last half is just run away trigger without paint.
This is a stock RT valve with Level 10 on a warpfeed/HALO marker.
You can hear the level 10 vent in the first half when it hits a ball and stops!
It's not as impressive as Butterfingers, but still something to look at.
Use an adjustable tank and set the output to under 700 PSI and it shoots normal. Change the tank output to 800 PSI or use a screwin and it goes reactive. This video was shot with a 47/3000 PMI Pure Energy and it kept up!
It would eat about 1K with each hopperfull on this tank!

I haven't tried with just the HALO yet, but I think the Warp is draggin it down. The Equalizer board came in for my Intimidator and I was playing with that the last few days!

Here is the link:
www.pettypb.com/rtmag.mpg
Enjoy!

[P4ULuk]

Originally posted by Vern1
Greetings,
Here you go, first half is with paint, last half is just run away trigger without paint.
This is a stock RT valve with Level 10 on a warpfeed/HALO marker.
You can hear the level 10 vent in the first half when it hits a ball and stops!
It's not as impressive as Butterfingers, but still something to look at.
Use an adjustable tank and set the output to under 700 PSI and it shoots normal. Change the tank output to 800 PSI or use a screwin and it goes reactive. This video was shot with a 47/3000 PMI Pure Energy and it kept up!
It would eat about 1K with each hopperfull on this tank!

I haven't tried with just the HALO yet, but I think the Warp is draggin it down. The Equalizer board came in for my Intimidator and I was playing with that the last few days!

Here is the link:
www.pettypb.com/rtmag.mpg
Enjoy!


Nice vid!

Paul.

[alf]

daddy?? is that you???

-alf

[luke]

Butters, your really not going to tell us what you did??????
That's just plain mean bro!:p

[joeyjoe367]

That's it! I'm going to have to get an RTP!

...And someone is going to HAVE to show me how to do this.:p

[Wc Keep]

you dont need an rt pro hes doing it with just a regular 68 with retro valve and i frame.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Butters, tell me how you did it and I'll make you a nice "Your Daddy" Sig pic. :D :D What do you say?

[joeyjoe367]

Originally posted by Wc Keep
you dont need an rt pro hes doing it with just a regular 68 with retro valve and i frame.

I understand that. I currently don't even have a retro valve, and i've been debating over getting one for a while.

[Jack & Coke]

Video's are gone...:(

[Butterfingers]

videos are back up!

[Reo5th]

Videos are gone...:(

[CRog075]

vids dont work :( cant d.l them :(

[Dubstar112]

The videos wont download to me. I get a page error when ever I click on it, or do a save target as.

EDIT: I feel like captain obvious :rolleyes:

Also, this is a quote from what I said in another thread like this.

"They arent messing with thier sear or trigger rod, they are only messing with the on/off pin, and spacer length. This is ok to do if you know what you are doing, and know what to expect. Like Butterfingers said, these small parts cost, and if you mess it up, youll find out how much. The person who stated they played with the sear above, did a no no, you can out shoot your classic valve simply because you messed up the flow into the chamber. Thats why it seems like that. These mods specifically were stated to work best with RT style valve."

Any tinkerers out there, that would be a sort of forwarning...

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

this has happened to me before, but it was way before level 10 was even announced. i had just gotten my z-grip and i would lightly hold the trigger and it would bounce my finger right back up, only thing is that it chopped like crazy since i had a longnose bolt. one day it just stopped doing it. don't know why but it would have been kewl if it still did that since i have LX now

[P4ULuk]

How do I get the vids to show, I've seen them once but can't view them anymore, am I being dumb?? :confused:

Cheers,

Paul
:D

[TNS2k2]

I cant get any of butters videos to work either. i saw Verns one but butters sounds like it is a litter nicer. I did however love Verns. just need something to compare it to.

[Damage]

I just found this thread and I want to see these vids SOOOO bad! But they wont download for me either :( :( :(

[dcmander]

Can someone send me this video on AIM? My name is originallp2004

I would really like to see, thanks

[Jack & Coke]

www.butters.org works again... :)