We are kingman, we suck and we know it

[thevilduk]

Check this out... my friend and I wrote a letter to kingman because we got so annoyed at them. Ya i know we were mean in a couple parts of the letter but we were venting... so they wrote back and did not really answer any of our questions
James and alex,
Thank you for your concern. It is nice to here from adult in the paintball
industry. The Kingman International customer base is, for the most part,
ages 8 to 22. Entry level to med-range players. We believe that starting
players at a young age will help them to grow into the sport and moving on
to some of the high dollar equipment from other manufacturers like Air Gun
Designs. We do have a very different opinion on the paintball industry
contributors. But that's what makes the United States of America so great,
we can agree to disagree and still make a very comfortable living. Knowing
your market is the key to a successful business, we believe we know our
place in the paintball industry, and we are very comfortable being the
largest privately owned paintball manufacturer in the world, not to mention
all the marketing, promotions and giveaways that Kingman International does
that has moved paintball into the number three position of main stream
sports, behind skateboarding and inline skating. This information comes
from the SGMA (Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association).
Keeping our sport, the sport of paintball, growing into mass appeal will
ensure that we all have a successful future.
Thank you for your time, and lets get more people out to play paintball,
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Time for some innovation

For Sales at Kingman USA -
Recently, I was viewing your company's selection of "new" markers. I was
disgusted to find one recurring fact, they are virtually all the same. One
example comparing the so-called "Spyder Java" and the Agressor. They look
disturbingly the same and the feature list very similar. The only true
innovation i have seen from you is the em1. Which is still a stacked tube
blowback. And not only do you keep the same design but you don't even bother
to modify the markers. For example making a low pressure blowback. And the
only variences in your guns are an electric grip, beaver tail, rear cocking,
crappy regulator, virtical feed and low pressure chambers. Lets not forget
milling and anodizing. Overall, I am very unhappy with these recent
additions to what was once a prominent company in the world of Paintball
sports. Now lets compare you to another paintball company... AGD.... what
have they come up with? Well the Power feed, the AUTOMAG an entirly
different firing design, flatline reg, the warp feed the RT the fastes
recharging valve system on the face of the earth and of course the best
paintball modification of the year... the level 10 for the mag. Unlike you
they actually make quality products in chicago not CHINA! In fact you are
the only paintball company i know of that has not contributed anything to
the sport of paintball.
Concerned-
James and alex

[magman007]

haha thats great, they were like we contribute, seee look! see??? !


Edit: those guys are right too. My first marker was a kingman. I could have gotten a pirahana and such but i didnt. it was a spyder. Now i do awcknowledge that they are overboard, and have way too many markers out, but who cares, let em be. In response to my above comment, i realized that they did contribute to paintball, just not the same way agd has. I just liked how they were like lok, we contributed see? and you kno waht? they have contributed more than you have to paintball.

[Ov3rmind]

For Sales at Kingman USA -
Recently, I was viewing your company's selection of "new" markers. I was
disgusted to find one recurring fact, they are virtually all the same. One
example comparing the so-called "Spyder Java" and the Agressor. They look
disturbingly the same and the feature list very similar. The only true
innovation i have seen from you is the em1. Which is still a stacked tube
blowback. And not only do you keep the same design but you don't even bother
to modify the markers. For example making a low pressure blowback. And the
only variences in your guns are an electric grip, beaver tail, rear cocking,
crappy regulator, virtical feed and low pressure chambers. Lets not forget
milling and anodizing. Overall, I am very unhappy with these recent
additions to what was once a prominent company in the world of Paintball
sports. Now lets compare you to another paintball company... AGD.... what
have they come up with? Well the Power feed, the AUTOMAG an entirly
different firing design, flatline reg, the warp feed the RT the fastes
recharging valve system on the face of the earth and of course the best
paintball modification of the year... the level 10 for the mag. Unlike you
they actually make quality products in chicago not CHINA! In fact you are
the only paintball company i know of that has not contributed anything to
the sport of paintball.

Calm down, Kingman is in the market for new players, they aren't here to make new technology advancements and to WOW everyone. AGD is here for the tourney players, it's a different group of people. I can also think of MANY other companies that haven't contributed to paintball, so stop picking on them. The fact is, they make low end guns, and they do that right. The reason they're made in China and are all so similar, is to make them cost effective, giving an alternative to the Tippmann for newer players. You also need to get some of your facts straight: The EM1 is NOT a blowback, it's a true electropneumatic.

EDIT: I actually thought their reply was well written. Like I said before, they're here for new players, not to make state of the art equipment.

[magsRus]

If it wasnt for kingman I'm willing to bet at least 30% of all paintballers wouldnt be playing because their first gun was a kingman marker.

[shartley]

We are kingman, we suck and we know it
Where on earth did you get THAT from in their response? They did not even come close to saying that. In fact their response was very well written and actually a slap in your face… but you didn’t even see it.

I like how they wrote that it is nice to hear from adults in the paintball industry. It was being very kind to what I read as clearly a “slam” letter written by either an immature adult, or a child (note: Pulling up the profile of Autoduk will show a DOB of March 1, 1987). Kingmann has done a great deal for the paintball industry in the way of providing a decent quality marker at AFFORDABLE price, and thus allowed many people to play that would not be able to if forced to buy a higher end marker. They also bring up other things, and so I will not get into it further.

I think that letter was not only inappropriate, and personally I would not have even responded to it. I applaud Kingmann in their response to the original letter, and will still recommend them as a low cost alternative for people’s needs. I will of course ALWAYS recommend AGD for those who can afford them, but the truth of the matter is not everyone CAN. Thus Kingmann and other such “lower end” marker manufacturers. Do you call a VW CRAP because it is not a Ferrari? NO.

You may be proud of what you wrote and what you posted, but I for one am not…. I will be nice and leave it at that….
:rolleyes:

[BajaBoy]

i onlt skimmed thru some of that but i dont understand why u snapped at them? i think there guns are great.. maybe they dont want to try n top agd wpd.. wgp.. and sell ALOT of 99-290$ guns insted.. i sure know that when i got my first gun it was a Tl plus bc no way my dad was gunna buy me a 300 mag n such

[Coaster]

Originally posted by autoduk
The only true innovation i have seen from you is the em1. Which is still a stacked tube
blowback.

Sorry buddy, the EM1 is a full-fledged electropneumatic gun. This is nothing near a "low" end gun.

[HoppysMag]

ya i would have to say the EM1 is mid level... ( stock mag,cocker)... i wrote a similar letter to BE... but i had examples and evidence to support them.... but they didnt even reply...

[agdemagman69]

Ive shot an em1 and its worse than the 2000 compact (and the compact shoots faster too)

[magman007]

what is wrong with you agdmagman69? the em1.s are like bushies, there verry fast, and actually capabale or 20 bps. and they have a pretty nice trigger on em

[KamikazeChiKenz]

Chill out, who cares if they wrote a slam letter to Kingman. I was not satisfied w/ their products when I used them but I have several friends that are somewhat new to paintball and love their Spyders. If they want to slam Kingman so what, I'm sure they didn't hurt anybodys feelings.
I'm also sure that if you did this you would be happy-> Paintball.com wrote:"Brimstone Smoke competed in the IAO 5 Man Amateur event and won first place and took home $50,000. To win this prize that was sponsored by Kingman International all they had to do was shoot Spyder markers and win their division."

Now tell me that is not helping paintball out. Kingman may not make products up to AGD's standards (that we all love) but for well under $200 you can get one of there markers brand new and start playing paintball.
Just my two cents

[rhetor22]

my friend has a shutter with a booyah and some other things on it, its one nice marker. It does have a few velocity problems sometimes, but thats probably me being used to over-caring for my markers.

His gun is much more stable than my mag. (we both use co2)

considering that automags were created when hpa was not introduced into the world of paintball, Mags suck. Without expansion chambers and remotes or just jumping to HPA, the guns are horribly unreliable in cold weather, or when you fire fast. Spyders don't usually have that problem.

Don't go bashing Kingman because their gun lines look the same.. thats just stupid. When you buy a car you have about 3 different base models which each have their own pointless trim work. Same with the spyders.

If you had bought a gun and it blew up and burnt your house down, then send them a letter.

[Skoad]

I thought it was pretty immature and their goal of "looking cool" failed

[Sinnet]

very well said shartley, my thoughts exactly...

I wonder why autoduk isn't responding? :rolleyes:

[thevilduk]

im not responding because i was working...:rolleyes: and yes i know i am 15 and so is alex... the other person who "slammed" kingman. Ya it was immature no i did not edit it to make it look and sound better and im sure almost half the stuff i put in there is false because yes i am 15. And i started playing paintball at 13. As i hope you all know knowledge and wisdom come with age. I do not have a lot of age therefor not a lot of wisdom. Anyways, so we slammed kingman, but we had fun... what can i tell ya, we were bored. We felt like being dicks... :D and im sure that guy who replyed felt like being one back

[Restola]

All I have to say is: :rolleyes:

[Ov3rmind]

and im sure that guy who replyed felt like being one back
But he wasn't, he actually replied decently. I'm sorry, but at 15 (which I am also), you should use more common sense and courtesy.

[angelKiller16]

so we slammed kingman, but we had fun... what can i tell ya, we were bored. We felt like being dicks... :D

this is the problem, you felt BORED, so you decided to act like jerks, instead of finding something else to do. It's the problem with alot of kids ages 10-17 and unfortunetly i fall in that category also, but do i act like a jerk when i'm BORED no!



and im sure that guy who replyed felt like being one back

I don't see where your comming from, I admire that guy for how he handled the situation. If i had the opportunity he had I would have handed you the biggest smack possible.

On a side note, yes kingman's current line of markers looks very similar, but who cares. The guns are cost effective allowing a new paintball player to enter the sport. I would not be playing paintball right now if it where not for Kingman and it's because of what they offer. Kingman offers a decent, very upgradeable entry level gun for some very cheap prices. I had a budget that my dad let me spend when i bought my first gun and gear, "Get it for about 100$ and you can play paintball", he said. If i couldn't do that then no paintball. So "What has Kingman contributed to the sport?" you ask... a inovative mechanical system? no, groundbreaking technology? no. But what they have offered is more important then the lvl10 or any new stylish tourney marker for that matter. Kingman offers the ability for people to get into the great sport of paintball. Whithout Kingman do you think that as many people that are on these boards tonight would be here beacuse i sure no that i wouldn't.

[thevilduk]

ok here ill try to say it more clearly.... im a complete moron... there ya happy now? we all do stupid stuff in our life times. Now that you all got your shots at me and i am more cultured in life i shall retreat back into my hole from where i came. Thanks for making me realize what a foolish act this was. I shall mentally slap my self when ever i think of this letter. Sorry.

Dukmasterdeluxe

[angelKiller16]

hey look don't beat yourself up over this. At least you relize now that it wasn't as bright of a idea you thought it was when you and your buddy where bored.

[Dern]

There are a lot of 15 year old people out here, I'm 15 too. Being a teen for one doesn't give u an excuse to be a fool and write things like that. At least you have now learned that doing something like that is really not worth the time- even if you are bored. If you are bored, why don't you go do some work for your mom and dad! That's something to do and it's productive too!

Also, I think everyone makes some mistakes that they are REALLY sorry for because they didn't think the outcome would be so bad... so maybe we should lessen up on the "Bad Dog, No biscuit!" stuff :)

:D

[Ov3rmind]

ok here ill try to say it more clearly.... im a god damn dick head... there ya happy now?
Yes, I'm very happy. Now I feel like having an Oreo Cookie Bar, so very good..........

[pito189]

Originally posted by autoduk
ok here ill try to say it more clearly.... im a DON'T CURSE... there ya happy now? we all do stupid stuff in our life times. Now that you all got your shots at me and i am more cultured in life i shall retreat back into my hole from where i came. Thanks for making me realize what a foolish act this was. I shall mentally slap my self when ever i think of this letter. Sorry.

Dukmasterdeluxe

I see you are new to the boards. But please we do not appreciate cursing here. We like to have descent clean conversations here. Thank you for not cussing from now on.:D

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

http://www.888paintball.com/product_card.asp?ItemNo=+11%2D1%2DK%2FI+ANG+LCD+C1




http://www.888paintball.com/product_card.asp?ItemNo=08%2D1%2DAGD+A%2FMG+PF+SLV

:cool:

[mike e]

i have a opinion on this:

you say that AGD has contributed different from Kingman, so im guessing you think AGD has had more of a impact, AGD has had a enormous impact on paintball conceptually, and by that i mean by leading the way with innovations at times, however there was a point were the mag was begining to get stale, and thats when AGD had their revamp stage. Kingman has not nor ever will be a high end marker producing company, they label their guns "turny ready" for several reasons- primarily being marketing hype. all the companies have to do it just to stay competetive with each other, the marker industry is very fierce. Kingman has contributed enormously to the sport of paintball. they helped to make paintball affordable to a lot of kids, Kingman is a definate step up from BE but with out breaking your piggy bank. yes they have a ton of markers out, but ya know what? that gives a lot of kids the opportunity to say "look my marker is different from yours right out of the box!" which may sound stupid but, do you really like going to the field and seeing someone shooting your exact same set up? i know i dont thats why i assemble all my markers from parts to ensure that no other ones are out there that are like them

dont be too quick to bash kingman and other entry level marker companies, they helped get a lot of us into the sport, just because you shoot a mag now doesnt mean that all entry guns suck

[TigerMan]

You'll hardly ever see a company backlash at a customer for 1) it's not good business and 2) most business's put customers first. I really think Kingman could care less about what two teenagers who are bored have to say, though. If you ask me, Kingman is one of the smartest companies out there. Ask most paintball players what one of the most common problems they have when they first start and always have through paintball, it's having money. Kingman recognizes this, and makes there guns for this sole purpose, for the smaller budgets and for players who just want something non-expensive. Kingman probably has some many different models to choose from so they have a huge variety. Many paintball players will research when buying their first gun, and looks play a big part in this. If the player see's Kingman with all these different, low priced guns that have some annodizing and color, they will remember it. And like mentioned earlier, the AGD and Kingman have totally different market audiences to appeal to. It really gets to me people who try and take it to far in proclaiming there equipment, especially like autoduk and his friend by going to a COMPANY to do it. :rolleyes:

[shartley]

Might I suggest this thread be locked? I think most have said their say at this point, and I see a breakdown from this point on……

[Restola]

YAY locked threads!

(I agree, this thread ain't goin nowhere fast)

[FeelTheRT]

autoduk: What the freak is your problem with Kingman? Maybe you should have done a tad more research before you made a fool of yourself. Em1s are not blowbacks, they are true electronics like Initimidators and Angels because the hammer is controled by a solenoid. They have no need to change their marker design, because their design is just fine. I suppose you can say the exact same thing about WGP, ICD, Smart Parts and AKA since they havn't made big inovational changes to their markers :rolleyes:.

[Dubstar112]

Originally posted by shartley

Where on earth did you get THAT from in their response? They did not even come close to saying that. In fact their response was very well written and actually a slap in your face… but you didn’t even see it.



Yeah, Id say that was a slap in the face if Ive read one online before :)

[petefol]

i agree that the thread should be locked... now that just about everyone has said the exact same thing about kingmans contribution is bringing people into the sport, so how about before anyone else replies they read all the responces and then reply with soemthing new.