No RT triggers allowed in tournament, fine can I put an AIR valve in my emag?

[Dragoon]

I've noticed a few local tournaments have baned reactive triggers. So I figure okay, how about putting an AIR valve into my emag. Sure I may get some shootdown, but I don't think I'll shoot fast enough to notice any.

Can you guys think of anything that may have to be changed of looked at to make it work. I was thinking maybe a change of the on/off pin perhaps. What's your thoughts?

Douglas.

[Muzikman]

Well, I am not sure if anyone thought about this, but there is no reason you could not take the manual trigger rod off the the Emag. It is not needed unless you want to shoot in Hybrid or manual mode. This would get rid of the possibility of the reactive trigger but still keep the recharge rate of the RT valve.

[FeelTheRT]

well.. people can cheat by just flipping the switch... And if you have a Warp Feed, reffs wont see what position your switch is in.

[Kaiser Bob]

Originally posted by FeelTheRT
well.. people can cheat by just flipping the switch... And if you have a Warp Feed, reffs wont see what position your switch is in.

Flipping the switch would only make your trigger pull have a lot of overtravel without a trigger pin.

As for the original question, sure you can stick an AIR valve in there, I would swap out your on/off parts from the emag valve to the AIR valve though. (On/off assembly, pin, quad oring etc.)

[FutureMagOwner]

you can but you could just put the gun in pure E mode

[magman007]

or, you could boycott that tournament for having un fair rules. It isnt fair to ban one legal thing because it is fast. If people sweet spot, then those are the people that need to be thrown out, not a whole marker. >Most people can firse faster on an angel than an rt (without sweet spotting) any ways, so why not ban them?

[Dragoon]

Muzikman,

Good idea. But wouldn't that mean having to buy a second sear assembly. Afterall I'm not about to try and put the rod back in and incur the rath of AGD for rod tampering :p

Kaiser Bob,

I didn't think the on/off assemblies were transferable between RT and AIR valves. Can they just be swaped?!


Douglas.

[Kaiser Bob]

Originally posted by Dragoon


Kaiser Bob,

I didn't think the on/off assemblies were transferable between RT and AIR valves. Can they just be swaped?!


Douglas.

Yep.

[BlackVCG]

Yes you can put an AIR valve in an E-Mag. You might be able to get away with transfering your on/off assembly out of your E-Mag valve into the AIR valve. This will keep you from having to grind down your AIR valve on/off pin. Make sure to transfer over the black quad o-ring out of the E-Mag on/off assembly.

If they ban the gun just because it has the RT valve, then for sure you'll have to put in the AIR valve. If the ban it based on how the trigger feels, then turn down the input pressure to the point that it feels like a regular trigger pull.

Quite frankly I wouldn't bother participating in any of those tournaments. If they're going to ban reactive triggers then they better ban Intimidators, Cockers with electro frames and all the other guns that have trigger bounce. Trigger bounce is just as easy to sweet spot as most RT triggers.

[Ityl]

take out your trigger rod, then it can only be electronic

[Dubstar112]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
If they're going to ban reactive triggers then they better ban Intimidators, Cockers with electro frames and all the other guns that have trigger bounce. Trigger bounce is just as easy to sweet spot as most RT triggers.

Yeah, I noticed that on my Impulse. If I hold the trigger just right, it will fire just like a rt trigger would. It bounces into a sort of f/a burst then stops when i move my finger. Pretty sweet :)

[FeelTheRT]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Quite frankly I wouldn't bother participating in any of those tournaments. If they're going to ban reactive triggers then they better ban Intimidators, Cockers with electro frames and all the other guns that have trigger bounce. Trigger bounce is just as easy to sweet spot as most RT triggers.
Although i see you point but i think this is untrue. Trigger bounce happens on most electronics that have tons of kick. Most tournament players worry more about accuracy than ROF so they do not used dropforwards which results in less kick from the marker. I meen i see where your going here but i just think the RT trigger scenario is completely different from electrnoic bounce.

[magman007]

you kno, i gotta agree with feel the rt. I have noticed alot of the players on the FON movies juat camping and spreying away, but there not firing at blazing speeds. Rt´s can be easy to sweet spot, if you concentrate, but do you know how hard it is ti do in a game? when i first had my rt pro, muzikman just went check this out, and sweet spotted it, i found out how to do it and tired it in a game, never did get it to work. Plus an rt isnt made to do that.


By all means, BOYCOTT the tourny. If you notice the wpf, Nppl, and Pan Am have not banned em yet, hell they banned stickers before they will ban the rt. The rt used to be immensely popular in the world of tournys, now to go ahead and ban em is just senceless

[BlackVCG]

All I'm saying is that both methods can put out some insane ROF. Both can be controlled.

I believe that much of their reasoning for banning RT triggers is to keep Tippmann RT's out of the event because the Tippmann RT trigger is basically in runaway all the time. I'll bet since it's a local tournament, more people will be shooting mid-grade guns and RT Tippmanns will be fairly prevelant. Instead of them thinking about the E-Mag and RT, they just banned RT triggers to keep out Tippmann RT's. What I would do is show up with your E-Mag w/ the RT valve and show them that it's controllable. If they tell you that you can't use it, then try to make your case against it, but if not, then put in the AIR valve and it will be fine.

[Dragoon]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm actually not doing tournaments these days (work is keeping me away) but I wanted to know my options were, and be ready, just in case. It's good to know I can still use my emag if I wanted to switch valves.

Black I think your right. I don't think the organizers are targeting emags or RT's specifically. More probably they had a problem with Tippmanns, or a particular individual and a runaway trigger, and this is a knee jerk reaction to it.

As for rate of fire in a game, I agree with magman007. I think rate of fire if overemphasised. I don't think I have an overly fast trigger, but it doesn't seem to hamper me in a game. I'm not much for the spray and pray mentality. I tend to choose my shots and try to keep on the move. As for sweetspotting in a game. I've never been able to do it.

Douglas

[Xzion]

another thing you might want to do, is make sure its not -just- the Tippmann reactive triggers theyve banned. I believe the NPPL has banned the Tippmann's RT's because theyre designed to always run in 'run away/full auto' mode, where as the AGD RT/RT PRO is still a reactive trigger, but isnt designed, nor intended to run in run away/full auto mode when in manual.

[Temo Vryce]

Dragoon if you're talking about the series that I think you are. I'm not really all that surprised. That series has been taking a really bad nose dive over the last couple of years. It's stupid discision like that one that will drive the series into an early grave. The AIR valve will work fine your emag. Strider can vouch for this as he has done it. I can't remember wy but he did it.

[Dragoon]

Hey Temo it's been a while!
No it's not that series. Just a couple of other single tournaments that I've heard about. I just want to be prepaired incase it ever comes up.

Douglas

[Shirow]

I think it's probably worth boycotting tournaments that start doing stuff like that.

[cledford]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Yes you can put an AIR valve in an E-Mag. You might be able to get away with transfering your on/off assembly out of your E-Mag valve into the AIR valve. This will keep you from having to grind down your AIR valve on/off pin. Make sure to transfer over the black quad o-ring out of the E-Mag on/off assembly.



Steve,

Why would you need to grind down the AIR on/off pin? I checked mine and the AI mics out at .751 and the Emag .712, is that enough to make a difference?

What exactly does the black quad oring do?

Thanks,

-Calvin

[BlackVCG]

Well, the quad o-ring was designed to deal with issues involving the gun locking up in E-Mode because the on/off pin was catching on the cast mark of the standard urethane on/off top o-ring.

The Quad o-ring is designed so that the cast mark doesn't touch the on/off pin and the sealing surface is at the bottom of the o-ring. Therefore the short on/off pin to make up for the difference in sealing points.

[Vanced]

As proud owner of a pair of RT MicroMag's I for one would simply be fed up with Tourny Offical 'X' ... telling me I can't play with my gun due to the fact that someone has abused the system, or worse that simply because it can be abused.

I know this may sound like an 'ODD' solution to the issue. But I have heard of this happening once, No I wasn't there to know how it turned out but If I have to choose between putting my RT in the case or doing this.

They Solved the "Shooting Too Fast" Issue by simply banning mechanical hoppers. And offering VL 200's to anyone who didn't have one. I guess there was a lot of complaining due to some the people playing with some rentals I guess and people crying Full-Auto, not sure. But they thought this would effect everyone equally and fairly although very signiffically. And with the Level '10' to prevent chopping it may be VERY annoying but not totally ruin your day like having to put your gun away or go home...

Just another worthless 2 Cents by a concerned RT owner...

Vanced

[Dragoon]

That's an interesting tournament format Vanced.

I think I'm going to suggest that to my local feild for doing entry level tournaments. It's a good way make it fair for renters, but allows gun owners to be mixed in. This would help to get the numbers to the point were the feild is interested in holding the event.

Douglas

[Shirow]

If they're going to do that they may as well just make it 'rental only' or something.. makes more sense.

[Dragoon]

But with the hopper restriction, the spyder toting players can still use their own equipment and be competitive.

I think it's a good idea to promote tournaments to entry players (renters and gun owners).

Douglas

[Vanced]

No offense intended Shirow,

But my whole arguement for this idea is that I can still play with my M-Mag RT, instead of a rental. And I am sure that all owners of higher end guns will want to play with their guns as much as me. Going to the Non-Mechanical Hopper will put us ALL on equal footing limiting the ROF for all guns no matter how fast or fancy they are to similar rates. And with the Level-X it will keep me from chopping and solve the Tippman Run Away issues cause it will become the famous "Blender" as the RT Mags have often been called. So a 'Rental Only' will totally defeat my point in offering this suggestion.

I guess this makes it 4 Cents worth of Rant...

Vanced

[cledford]

Since when do we need to make the playing field "even" for entry level teams? Part of being out gunned is then purchasing equipment capable with keeping up with the rest of the world - otherwise we'd all play with spiders and save a whole lot of money.

I used to playing in dart leagues. The one I hated was the Bud Light Dart League. They had a similar mindset - make it even for the newbies and it'll be more fun for everyone. They used a handicap system that hurt the good players (like me) and hurt the lousy ones also. When I started playing darts I got beat all of the time by players better then me. I had no "leg-up", no help, no equalizer - I could only set my goal to persevere, practice, and play and play and play until I started beating them. This helped me become a much better player - even though I was using $15 dollar darts and they were using $150 dollar sets. (Believe me it make s a difference) In the Bud light league they would so severely handicap the better players it was quite easy to beat us compared to an even up match. This pissed off the better players, and REALLY hurt the new ones. Never having to really strive to do better or purchase higher end darts, or learn flight mechanics through experimenting with different equipment (flight styles and shaft lengths) they never really became anything other then annoyances.

Handicaps and equipment restrictions don't help competition, they stifle it.

-Calvin

[Dragoon]

Cledford,

I don't prepose to change to offering only restricted type tournaments, just that they are a good option. There are a lot of players at the newb level, than at the tournament level. Why not offer tournaments catered to them. But from a feild owner perspective, numbers matter. So by offering a restriction like no moterized hoppers, anyone can play, and the overpowering firepower issues are minimized. The players with all the equipment may not find this any fun, so no problem, they have lots of tournaments to choose from. But for renters, ocasional players, and the odd tournament player looking for a change of pace this may be a fun option.

A side effect may be that some of the spyder toters may catch the competitive bug and grow into emag using, *** kicking tournament players. This will add the the pool of players, increase the number of competitive teams, and make more tournaments feasible.

It's not about changing anything, just offering options that may not already be around.

It would be fun to enter a non-moterized tournament with pump guns! Now that would help to improve your game!

Douglas

[Vanced]

Cledford,

I am not saying this as a do all or end all soultion, and i know that my suggestion wouldn't never and should never be considered for anything on the level of a NPPL Event or even in any kind of circuit, just those once in a while single event tournies that are aimed at the newbie, or have a divsion aimed at them. I certainly don't want to limit any kind of compition. I like high end guns, like playing with them, and playing oposite them. But look at is this way? Isn't there still stock class games out there, and there has been more than once I have often wonderd if I like the game better now or when I was pumping away on my SL-68 with my Splatmaster on my side, stairing down a guy on the other side of the feild at another pump. But the purpose of some of theese lower end tourny's and leauges in my opinion is to promote the sport. And in my eyes I want the sport to continue to grow and prosper. And an even field and lower level would help in my eyes. Bottom line is this.
"I would rather walk onto a field and see 20 guys with Spyders than 5 guys with Angels."

Vanced

[bornl33t]

Ya know what I'm just realizing. The Idea of the mag and reactive triggers is scarring ppl. Ya know, be cause it's an advantaget THEY don't have. When ppl realize they can never compeat in a catagory they try and compensate for their inadiqasies with regulations. It's no different here. I'm personally getting sick of this.. but there's nothing I can do about it.

[lunchbox]

wonder if pump owners boycotted semi's when they came out saying there to fast and eventually gave up.you know what people need to stop crying his gun is to fast, were all on equal play grounds ,we can all make and buy the same guns.
today is the day to move forward not stay behind. you want to know something local feilds will change there minds real fast when they start getting 1 or 2 teams only for a tourney cause there dumb rules are just plain dumb.
instead of saying ok ill go along with the cheap semi only rule say uh we payed you how much for this fa gun ? uh no give us a fa tourney or were going to play on our home feild. have some courage stick up to store owners. for gods sake people dont degrade your gear to please a feild there there to please you.