View Full Version : Proto Mainbodies NEED YOUR HELP!!
AO R&D Team,
We are back on the aluminum replacement bodies for standard mags. We were attempting in a previous post several months back to come up with and economical carved looking body but the economy part does not seem doable right now.
We are trying to take a small step and just replace the stainless body with aluminum so we can get cool colors. The issue with this replacement aluminum body is that it is very thin and does not allow much in the way of style treatments. With that in mind we are tuning to the forum for ideas.
Shown below are bare bodies one of which has some cuts on it for ideas. If you have any others please photoshop the photos below and post them. We have posted a cut away also to show where it's thinnest.
Ok lets go for it!
Thanks!!
AGD
This one is photoshoped onto a classic, the perspective is a little off so just ignore it.
AGD
will they still be twist lock style barrel?
Top Secret
09-09-2002, 04:37 PM
I'd prefer a cocker type thread myself, but either way would work. I'd recommend using Angel-feed threads since nearly all the aftermarket rises are Angel-threaded
Kevmag
09-09-2002, 04:37 PM
Not a fan of that style. Maybe it's the feed tube. Can't put my finger on it. How durable is this body-style?
Will Wood
09-09-2002, 04:41 PM
Same as above...
FooTemps
09-09-2002, 04:41 PM
I want pf or vert-pf bodies!
Remington
09-09-2002, 04:42 PM
Personally, I don't like the looks of 'em. It probably doesn't matter because I'm a minority(or am I?) but what I would one in a new body would be aluminum(as you have done) as well as the new module system like on the Extreme. I love the fact that you can switch between center feed and warp feed without having to switch entire bodies.
P.S
I know these are finished products but I'd stay away from that centerfeed design(not too attractive). But that's my two cents.
booyah
09-09-2002, 04:42 PM
dumb question...
it looks kinda three peice to me...
is it......... modular?
ShooterJM
09-09-2002, 04:43 PM
Cool! A new project!
EDIT: I like the centerfeed. Is it threaded for interchangeable feed necks? Also this is a repalcement for the standard mag body so if you go to cocker threads you lose your barrel investment. Although I guess it's the same thing if you go from a power to a vert feed.
FooTemps
09-09-2002, 04:44 PM
well, we need to think up of a design that will stay true to the automag and still look new and refreshing...
Tom... HOW ABOUT A CONTEST!?!?
Remington
09-09-2002, 04:46 PM
I second the idea about a contest. I think the prize should be an Extreme! Haha just kidding although a Lvl. 10 wouldn't be bad.
Spray Painter
09-09-2002, 04:49 PM
i think it should be cocker threaded. i also think a thinner feed neck should be used like on the emags.interchangable feeds would be cool too.
Clare
09-09-2002, 04:49 PM
In my opinion, they should stay away from the Tube design in the new bodies...but since Tom said he just wanted to take a small step so they can be colored then I guess they're fine
terrorizer666
09-09-2002, 04:56 PM
Totally dislike it,
I would like some horizontal carving or milling, should look better ! Just give it a shot. This looks ... cheap... :)
Crazy
09-09-2002, 04:58 PM
yes, i like capos idia, is it possible to make new bodies that wont need a rail? just throw on your gripframe and go?
Coaster
09-09-2002, 05:08 PM
would these new bodies not need rails, like the micromag bodies? I think that is a great idea to lose the rail, and i also think that cocker threads are the way to go.
spazzed
09-09-2002, 05:10 PM
I like the aluminum idea, but sans vertical feed. It makes me wanna hurl.
Magsrule3
09-09-2002, 05:14 PM
I like them, I would prefer the un-ribbed one, just plain or maybe some horizontal swirls( like a streched out sideways "S"). I especially like the fact that they are taking Mag barrels, they are so much better than threaded imo.
Thordic
09-09-2002, 05:16 PM
A couple things...
I saw these things firsthand, and I was impressed. They weigh next to NOTHING. Amazingly light.
They don't look half bad in my opinion either, and we havn't even seen them anno'd yet.
They are cocker threaded.
They need a body rail because to make it cost effective they need to be able to be produced on a lathe, not a mill. Incorporating a body rail into the body would mean the whole thing would have to be milled. Sticking with the tube means you can do this all straight on a lathe.
banzaimf
09-09-2002, 05:22 PM
so, are we to understand that these bodies are already in your hands? If so, then ignore my next statement.
A millable brick with cocker threading would be a better choice.
That being said. Since, from what I read, you already have the bodies, I would try something different. straight lines down the length of the body. A tight check pattern like on Pachmyer grips (near impossible I would guess). A super stylish logo milled into the body (not the lions, something like AGD in an oval with a swank script)
hitech
09-09-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Thordic
They weigh next to NOTHING. Amazingly light.
Yea! Sounds great! :D
Originally posted by Thordic
They are cocker threaded.
Boo, hiss! :mad:
How about some good old twist lock "threads".
veteranmag
09-09-2002, 05:52 PM
In terms of look, the vert feed neck is an eye sore. I'm not sure why it's so thick at the base. A clean line would do wonders (ie stock angel design). Otherwise the simple tube with ribs looks fine. Adding a sight rail (not like the one on a RT/Emag) but rather a simple grooved rail (lightweight, cheap and useable - particularly for adding a dot sight on a vertical feed) bonded to the top would be very useful.
A modular system for switching between power, vertical and warp feed would be a plus.
In terms of barrels, I prefer the autmag twist barrels, especially b/c I have a collection. It makes field cleaning a snap.
blackmag3
09-09-2002, 05:58 PM
i would like to see it in a warp feed style. preferably completely side feed. my choice for barrels would be twist lock but i could live with threaded. any ball park figure of what these may cost?
agdemagman69
09-09-2002, 06:02 PM
... there kinda bland in my opinion. and the ribbing doesnt look good at all.
*but i do like the porting on the front*
hitech
09-09-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by blackmag3
I would like to see it in a warp feed style, preferably completely side feed.
I second that.
BTW, I wanted to attempt to design something, but I don't have any photoshop type program. :(
splat15k
09-09-2002, 06:06 PM
I think a modular body is a great idea...i don't think people will mind the extra cost because the features would be worth every penny. The feed tube should be angel-threaded, like mentioned before. The barrel doesn't matter to me (i like the 1/4 turn myself). Milling...Gotta make it look sweet, not cheap like the ones above.
Anyway, i am glad to see AGD working on these bodies! Thanks AGD! You guys rock
56kSomeGuy
09-09-2002, 06:07 PM
I think that the body should also replace the body rail just like the micromag bodies. Also these bodies look very bland and boring need something more flashy and purty.It needs some more aluminum so that it allows us to be able to mill and customize it to our liking. Also cocker threads would be nice too.
lunchbox
09-09-2002, 06:20 PM
?
Muzikman
09-09-2002, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Thordic
They need a body rail because to make it cost effective they need to be able to be produced on a lathe, not a mill. Incorporating a body rail into the body would mean the whole thing would have to be milled. Sticking with the tube means you can do this all straight on a lathe.
I am no machinist, but how do you make that body on a lathe? If it is, I assume that the breech is a second piece that is brazed in. That being the case, then cool, but if that breech and body is one piece, then how is it machined on a lathe?
Anyway, not a bad idea, but you AGD really needs to step away from the tube look. It's the only thing that will make it different enough for people to buy.
Gecko
09-09-2002, 06:36 PM
pretty easy to do on a lathe if it has active tooling
looks good tom as long as the durability is there. I prefer the plain style myself
i play around in solidworks and see if i can do anything funky. Can you post some rough dims like diameter and location of the feed tube? also the size of the stock peice it was cut from.
Gecko
magman007
09-09-2002, 06:41 PM
Wow, thats pretty sweet....But tom, i have to say, i know the tube is cheper, but we need a millable brick.
The problem with a millable brick is that it would baisically look like a micromag. That is why i liked the old one so much more. It want brickey, and when you showed it to me on the tour iw as like, wow thats sweet! You prolly dont remember, oh well. I thought the old body was really cool.
THe other thing with the millable brick, is for people to want to buy a mag with that, there going to want m,odular designs. Unless you offered something realy big. Something like in color, and a price under neath the origional automag. That would sell, it would also appeal to more pople in the low cost marker area, and since it is a tourny gun, they wont need another ever!
I like that though, i would go for a millable brick, or cheper than the origional automag. Also, you just really gotta jazz it up! WHERE ARE THOSE DAMN PHOTOSHOPPERS!
HoppysMag
09-09-2002, 06:46 PM
i agree that we need a millable brick with a vertfeed. it doesnt matter to me about barrels being i already have my mag, i like the twist lock but cocker seems to be the way to go now adays... but then again you were always a leader so its ur call tom... good luck...
Aliens-8-MyDad
09-09-2002, 06:58 PM
iput my newbie photoshop skills to work and came out with an idea of some colors... if anyone can tell me how to do this better id really apreciate it cause this looks like crap :) but tom nice bodys, id buy one of em. also, definatly warpfeed bodys
Thrash
09-09-2002, 07:10 PM
I like the idea but needs different mill desings. A contest would be a good idea but i'd prefer the mag threads since i don't have a cocker barrel. I liked the photoshoped minimag lookin body. Colors would be cool. I like the square design that tom posted a while back.
Sorry but the little womans car died and I had to leave before posting everything.
The body takes Cocker threads. The feed tube is a screw in and the only one we had around was for an intimidator. If its ugly see Bob Long, we even shrunk it down to make it look better. You can screw in any one you like.
I know it looks like a tube but thats all we can do for a low end model. Carving costs more than the whole gun. This will also retro into older guns. A cut and carved model like the last one you worked on is still on the list but a lot more money.
I am still trying to post a cutaway for thickness. Remember if the majority don't like it, it won't happen.
AGD
agdemagman69
09-09-2002, 07:18 PM
ok, i change my vote... i didnt know that miling costs that much money :eek: its good that it takes cocker threads. i'd like to see it with a different rise though
Prezents
09-09-2002, 07:20 PM
The main problem that I have with them is that I have 14 barrels for the Mag, Can you offer this in either Mag or cocker?
Will this come in a Power Feed?
joeyjoe367
09-09-2002, 07:24 PM
I would really prefer 'Mag threading, but since lvl 10, I've never had to take off my barrel to clean it, or anything.
They look "ok" to me. I don't think it would compell me to buy another 'Mag, or replace my current main-body.
Side-Feed warp-bodies would be awesome tho.
Emagster
09-09-2002, 07:26 PM
i like the idea of it..but the look of it doesn't really appeal to me so far. could we see some power feed bodies?
agdemagman69
09-09-2002, 07:33 PM
just out of curiosity, what if you made it into a block shape(instead of the pipe) with the same mill job? cause mags are always rounded. does that cost more than the pipe?
I think it looks better than the ugly grey tube. A thought would be to add some taper to it, it doesn't need to be great, just to change from the tube a lil bit.
I like the threaded barrels better than the twist lock. Don't need to worry about barrel tolerances so the bolts can be made bigger for less blowback. Plus those barrels find the worse times to get stuck in there.
Powerfeed is dead, too hard to make and not worth the effort. The only thing PF is good for is turning off the flow of balls.
magman007
09-09-2002, 07:39 PM
hees saying if it was a block, he wouldnt be able to lathe it, making it cost alot more money.
As for powerfeed, does the industry want powerfeed? or VERT FEED!!! cmon guys, you go0tta think a little more outta the box. I treat these things like i would be seeling the product. Once some good photo shoppers get ahold of this, we can ask for different mill designs, colors, feed options and so on.
personman
09-09-2002, 07:45 PM
Look guys, IMO dont be going around asking for pre milled bodies; its better just to get either a tube, or a block. That way if you really want milling, get a block and mill it yourself. Personally, I would stick with the tube
BOO AT THE COCKER THREADING! BOO BOO BOO!
I'm sorry, but I dont care how much wieght it takes off, I am NOT going over to cocker threading.
I would rather have a tube, allum or ss, with a fixed feed system.
agdemagman69
09-09-2002, 07:46 PM
so basically we have to keep it in a pipe shape. right?
Kevmaster
09-09-2002, 07:52 PM
what i dont see is how this is so much better than the current mag bodies. sure you can make pretty colors, but i dont think thats worth the trouble of redoing the body for such a simple reason, now if you can get the "brick" going and have built in rail, milling, mod feeds, etc then you have something. but as is, i give it a thumbs down in favor of the old Burger King motto "If youre gunna go, go all out..."
FooTemps
09-09-2002, 07:54 PM
booo! hiss!! No cocker threads! twist-lock is bettter! that is... unless you make it modular...
Aliens-8-MyDad
09-09-2002, 07:58 PM
i dont mind going cocker threaded as long as it takes significant weight off... ill just buy a cocker freak back...
Prezents
09-09-2002, 08:00 PM
Another thing that came to mind, It is quicker to have the mag barrel if you have to remove it during a game. The cocker would take longer to unscrew.
Ok here is the deal, our machine shop has these super lathes that can remove material very fast when its round. These lathes also have milling cutters on them so they can mill too. The problem is that the milling cutters only rotate at 5000 rpm compared to high performance mills that rotate the cutters at 15-20,000 rpm. Consequently it takes three times longer to mill something on these lathes. It's great for small stuff and drilled holes but to change a round bar into a square is just not cost effective.
On the other side of the coin, to go with a high speed mill you have to have several setups to get to all sides of the body. In reverse of a lathe, the mill has a hard time doing the inside round stuff. So you see if you want to be cost effective it must come off the machine ready to go in one step.
We don't want to do power feeds, again because the cost is trememdous. Everyone else with high end markers only offers vertical feeds, why can't we? We can rotate the feed over to 45 deg. or a little more but you still have to use a stub and 90 deg. adaptor for warps. We can't make them for stock mag barrels because there is no way to attach the feed tube.
AGD
Coaster
09-09-2002, 08:03 PM
why would you ever have to remove your barrel :p
Sinnet
09-09-2002, 08:05 PM
I love the plain one, no ribbing or anything... I think it would look best with a non-ribbed feed neck (I realize it's a bob long one on the proto, but still).
I'd buy one if it came out and wasn't wicked expensive. Vert feed is a huge plus.
boo and hiss at the millable brick people... go get cockers :)
Also, i'm going to have to agree with the masses on this... twist lock barrels are the best! I'd hate to see all the mag users going to cocker threads, and that would be a big drawback to me.
cphilip
09-09-2002, 08:22 PM
I like em all knowing the limitations...I can see lots of promise to styling. Some simple "gill" work...maybe some diamond checkering....
Do not take to the Style of that feed tube you had to use. But a simple bell will fix that.
Lets get em done!!!! Oh and one comment to help us picture it is to lose them plastic grips and show us some molded ones on it.
magman007
09-09-2002, 08:23 PM
OK, i love twist lock, i will say that right now, but do others? no. you forget, that the majority of the paintbalers dont know about AO. we are 7000 out of 7,000,000 players. Vert feed is what it needs, pretty colors is what it needs. Milling of some sort is what it needs. Lighter is what it needs.
This is the step in the right direction people! tom is doing everything he can to do what people want, then when he does it, people say, oh i like it the other way better. What the heck is that? people clamor for one thing, then when they get it,m they dont want it.
Tom has done the lighter valve, the heaviest thing in the mag, then people say, oh its going to strip out, can i keep my ss valve?
Tom now tackles the other heavy part on the mag, trying not to stary too far from the tube for 2 reasons. One everyone says, oh i love the muddy tube on the grip frame, its realy what i like. He is alos sticking to it because it is cost effective. WHat would be better than a better, pretier cheeper mag? i dont really know to tell you the truth. Look at stock cockers, and how well they sell now that they are colored. anf oh...whats that? VERT FEED!! not to mention cocker threaded!
Guyds, tom is supplying what the market wants, and alot of the things you have wanted too. NOW WHAT DO YOU WANT?
Ov3rmind
09-09-2002, 08:32 PM
IMO, these look a ton nicer than the old aluminum proto bodies. The vertical feed and Cocker threads are also very nice! When/if they do come out, it'll put a lvl 10 Classic Mag under heavy consideration for me. Good job Tom, these are looking great (BTW, I think the plain one without ribbing looks the best. I still love the basic tube design).
Miscue
09-09-2002, 08:47 PM
How about... making the alum body a regular tube... and then machine up pieces to slide over body (kinda like how site rails slide) to give it whatever shape you want? You can make it flush with the body rail to make it look nice.
Heck, you could use plastic or whatever... for dress-up components...
Halliday
09-09-2002, 09:02 PM
I like the looks of something like this better, using a P&P Dye Angel feed tube.
CRASHKING
09-09-2002, 09:34 PM
IMHO. i think the old ones look better so far... now someone might post something that looks great but so far i like the normal body.
FooTemps
09-09-2002, 09:44 PM
I think AGD is caving in too much to the popular market... I think you should stick with the twist lock threads at least...
ah yes... here's a good idea for a body... sorry for using this hexis but it came on the spur of the moment
http://www.automags.org/pics/contest/fant_emag/feHexis.jpg
DaFlip
09-09-2002, 10:05 PM
All you people saying "twist lock is easier to clean" ummm....lvl 10, breaks are not that frequent anymore. Twist lock is a good concept, but not that practical. Why? The nubbins just dont hold up like a ball detent. You have to replace them once and a while. This is a no go, unless its a brick. People want millability, and with a thin tube that cant happen. I can go with no module, thats fine. You people gotta see, this isnt profitable with the tube. Its an old, trusty tho, but now people are into pretty shiny colors and custom carving...mmmm...DYEmag...oh wait off track, anyways another tube is no good. And if people want a colored tube, powdercoated stainless is your daddy.
Unless....the body is incredibly cheap. I mean $50-MAYBE $100. Then I might go...hmmmmmm.....
DaFlip
I personally wont purchase a mainbody that wont support my twistlock barrel no matter how cool it looks. Twistlock barrels are far too conveinent. The AGD people are smart. I'm sure that they can figure out a way to have cool mainbodies and keep the twistlock if they were so inclined. I would definately purchase a supercool mainbody for my emag if it supported my twistlock barrel.
chrisj
09-09-2002, 10:46 PM
GREEN!
I love them, give me the basic design, with the most basic feed, in green. I also like the cocker threads, lots.
Chris
TransMan
09-09-2002, 11:01 PM
Hey well i dont really like a few things about it the non twist lock being the biggest part. But anyway I havnt heard anything about making new bodies for the Old RT. So if anyone would like to tell me to how tight the tolerences on a mag body and a mag rail have to be. I want to try making my own Body and rail combination for my RT and if anyone has any pointers i would aprricate it thanks.
Here is the cutaway view, as you can see there is not much to work with. Think about cutting through the body in the front.
AGD
Gundam V
09-09-2002, 11:32 PM
I think that the new body design it great, I like both the plain one and the one with rings. To keep the body cost effective, that is probably the best way and design to do it. I have taken a couple of machine shop classes and can tell you that doing a blocky design can get quite pricey. The design that is placed up on this thread is the best way to go. Tom, if you make'em put me on the list for one maybe two. Keep up the good work and hail the all powerful BORG General.
Thordic
09-09-2002, 11:54 PM
You know, sometimes I think that Tom using AO as a marketing group isn't such a good idea.
Too often people expect too much of Tom just because he is willing to listen. And even then they aren't happy no matter what he puts out.
This body will DESTROY the "Mag's are heavy" arguement. It feels like you picked up a freaking cardboard tube.
And it looks the same! How can you complain about a tube when you ALL USE ONE? Not to mention a tube is the lightest possible design.
As for the barrels, the future of paintball is in cocker threads. Evolve, or become the next fossil Tom digs up in Montana. Everyone complains that nothing in Paintball is standardized, but then when things start to get standardized, they complain that the rest of the world isn't conforming to what THEY like.
Tom, the bottom line is I think this new body is an AMAZING development. If it doesn't go into mass production, I'll give my pinky for one of the prototypes.
FooTemps
09-10-2002, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Thordic
You know, sometimes I think that Tom using AO as a marketing group isn't such a good idea.
Too often people expect too much of Tom just because he is willing to listen. And even then they aren't happy no matter what he puts out.
This body will DESTROY the "Mag's are heavy" arguement. It feels like you picked up a freaking cardboard tube.
And it looks the same! How can you complain about a tube when you ALL USE ONE? Not to mention a tube is the lightest possible design.
As for the barrels, the future of paintball is in cocker threads. Evolve, or become the next fossil Tom digs up in Montana. Everyone complains that nothing in Paintball is standardized, but then when things start to get standardized, they complain that the rest of the world isn't conforming to what THEY like.
Tom, the bottom line is I think this new body is an AMAZING development. If it doesn't go into mass production, I'll give my pinky for one of the prototypes.
I think that once AGD goes over to all cocker threads they should be called Auto threads since both Automags and Autocockers use them...
Jerhew
09-10-2002, 12:20 AM
here's the thing
most of the twist lock people are harcore oldskool mag owners(as am I)
the people who Tom is trying to appeal to is new owners
he's smart...color anno, cocker threads, vert feed, lightweight(although i don't buy that mags are at all heavy),
fancy maching....
it appeals to the paintball masses
for a lot of us oldschoolers though...
it's just not necessary
i love the fact that my gun is made out of high grade stainless steel
for me i'd stick with it over aluminum any day
my other gun is a typhoon so to me a mag is very light
basically you're on the right track tom
I'd sell it with the lvl 10 inside already and offer it with the intelliframe as a slightly upgraded option....options options options
another thing i'd try and change is the rail itself...
since you can't get rid of it...how about altering it in some way...different color anno... maybe make some more cuts in it...or drop off most or all of the sight rails
just a thought
as long as you're making changes...
people seem to prefer 45 grip frames
how about a cheaper single finger 45 grip
people like changing the grip...kids like clear dye stickies...etc
i have to admit my intelliframe dressed up my mag more than i imagined
aaron_mag
09-10-2002, 12:39 AM
Is this prototype usable? Can we, for example, see a picture of one with a barrel and on an intellifeed? Some of us are not visionaries and cannot picture it.
I agree with Thordic. Cocker Threads....no problem. I have a twist lock barrel now but for a lighter body and low rise vertical feed I'd buy a cocker barrel.
Tube design. Look at the picture that footemps attached.
http://www.automags.org/pics/contest/fant_emag/feHexis.jpg
These markers look very sexy and efficient and they are basically tube design. I like the integrated sight rail but if it would cost too much then I could live without it.
As for power feed versus vertical feed lets look at which way the industry is going. People in general appear to prefer the vertical feed and I know that I would like it as well. Someone said that AGD seemed like it was selling out to the market. Let me ask this question....what is a business supposed to do? Answer: Sell to the market.:)
Looks like something I would buy (but then again I'm only one person). Would like to see it with a different feed tube (Bob Long one is ugly), barrel, and intelliframe. Partially for my personal curiousity but I think that we would really be able to give Tom our "total effect" opinion. :)
i really like the idea that the feed neck is removable... if that remains on the production model, would make nice options availible... but then again, problems of the neck coming loose could arrise. But what do i know, i've never messed with a vert feed before
modular would be NICE... but then again, maybe not cost effective... to effectivly replace the current it needs to be better looking(or can become), around the same price(or cheaper), increased performance needs to outweight any increased faults(reduced weight for the duribility of stainless)
those two that TK showed us would be really nice... cost effective and they would make the mag even lighter (which personally, i would love)
i was thinking that a hot-rod style flame Cnc would be really cool(a REALLY thin cut on the original tube... but probably wouldn't be mechanical possible or very cost effective)
anodizing the flame might be cool too...
i just threw this together to show some ideas and hopfully inspire those who have photoshop... and skill
I'll work on a picture of that Cnc flame job i was talking about... ready in a day
Potatoboy
09-10-2002, 04:03 AM
Whelp, it's 5am, and this is the best I can do. I think giving it an RTPro/Emag style front does wonders, maybe add some grooves at the same angle.
I know the curve looks silly, but I don't have the mental capacity to make it look decent right now, just an idea.
P8ntballerAK
09-10-2002, 06:36 AM
tom, how about using an aluminium alloy? There are some real strong aluminium alloys on the market, and it would greatly increase the "machinability" of the body, as well as make it stronger.
I will photoshop a few ideas as soon as I can.
Slapp
09-10-2002, 07:09 AM
This lighter, less expensive body is a great idea. A version with the feed rotated to the side for warp users should be easy to produce too. Screw in cocker barrel threading sounds good to me even though I've already got a bunch of mag barrels. I'd like to see these make it into actual production with a pure function over form design. Nevermind the "ribbed for her pleasure" milling. Tom, keep em simple, light and inexpensive and bring them to market.
If folks want the custom appearance of a C&C Extreme then they can pay for it along with fade anno, modular breaches and anti chop eye. They can also wait forever to see the product make it into mass production so they can actually own one. I don't need eye candy to shoot someone with. I want a light, simple, trouble free marker at a good price point. That's why I bought a Mag in the first place. It sounds like these are both lighter and cheaper than the SS bodies and they easily retrofit on standard mags, RT pro's and emags. That's all good and no bad. Bravo!
I like the ribbed one.
:) After reading the majority of posts, I see most people aren't thinking within the guidelines that were set. I would hate to see this shot down by those that don't understand the limitations on this particular body/design. I bet most didn't even read the entire thread before they gave their opinion. At the very least, you should read all of Toms posts to get the facts. ;)
It's about options and variety guys, lets help make it happen. :D
Severe
09-10-2002, 07:35 AM
First of all, let me say up front that I'm just an avid rec-baller. I play 2-3 weekends per month with my TKO .68 classic in mostly wood and senerio games. I love my marker. I am in NO way a speed baller or tourney player. I have no idea what percentage of paintball demographics players like myself make up.
I think the aluminum body is a great idea. I'm even on board with the 'cocker threads (I especially like the calling them 'auto' threads idea). The one issue I'm having is I'm a die hard power feed fan. Rather than just ***** about the vert feed, what about an attachment option?
I know it's not as modular as the breech on the emag but it's the exact same concept. It would allow for easy change between vert and powerfeed left/right or even Warp feed.
I have no skills with photoshop so I'll try to explain. If it sounds feasible, maybe someone could render it.
Basically the body is cut with a "U" where the breech would be. A second piece would attach to the frame over this opening providing the desired feed. It could attack with 2-4 small screws.
I think this would reduce the milling/lathing cost of the body itself, but there would be the cost of producing a second part or a series of them. The marker could be sold with one feed type with the others available seperately or in kits. Think of the Freak system...but one extra insert, or buy the whole enchilada. This gives the purchaser a wide range of options on the same maker. It also gives them something else to anondize if they want.
The only example I can think of for what I'm trying to explain is Worr's BOSS Raider series of markers. It's a spyder knock-off with a changable feed that attaches with two screws on top of the frame. I'm confident AGD could do a design like this and it would be MUCH cleaner and tighter than my example.
Bottom line, it's great to see AGD trying to provide the public with what it wants!!
For the time being, I'm still looking for a Teflon black powerfeed left Micromag body.
skipdogg
09-10-2002, 08:07 AM
Should be twist lock barrel.
I hate vertical feed.
Thordic
09-10-2002, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by skipdogg
Should be twist lock barrel.
I hate vertical feed.
*sigh*
Panzerr
09-10-2002, 08:27 AM
Of all the bodies that have been posted so far, I like the plain one without the rings milled in it. The rings look tacky if you ask me. It looks like it's "trying to look cooler than it actually is". I like the idea of converting to cocker threads and a vertical feed, but use a better looking vertical feed, like the dye one someone posted earlier.
Tom,
For those that want a "Warp Only" body, why not simply weld on the feed tube?
ShooterJM
09-10-2002, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Thordic
As for the barrels, the future of paintball is in cocker threads. Evolve, or become the next fossil Tom digs up in Montana. Everyone complains that nothing in Paintball is standardized, but then when things start to get standardized, they complain that the rest of the world isn't conforming to what THEY like.
Tom, the bottom line is I think this new body is an AMAZING development. If it doesn't go into mass production, I'll give my pinky for one of the prototypes.
After reading the spec's, limitations, reasons, etc. I retract my earlier statements. Cocker threads are good to go (freak system here I come). I think this is a great idea overall. Think about it. With this and the level 10 the two biggest knocks on the mag are gone (weight, breaks). I love the threaded vert feed as it already has aftermarket options on the market. Looks good Tom, I'll take a shark gilled, red to black fade anno!:D
ah137
09-10-2002, 09:54 AM
Whine whine whine, Cocker threads and low rise vertical feed IS the way to go. Tom you are on the right track here. Has anyone ever noticed how hard it is to get micro mag 2000 bodies. Everyone wants them and they hold there resale.
Do the math
For everone that wants a twist-lock set up and power feed, BUY A FREAKIN RT PRO .
Its our turn to have vertical feed and cocker threads!!
I have been forced to buy PTP stuff, and if AGD starts making them, the new bodies will be a fair price and avaliable.
Thanks for your time,
Hills
I wish mag bodies looked a bit like this.
It would have the round underbody so it would fit reg rails, but instead of being a tube, it would be more square up top and have the rough edges smoothed out.
and a bit more meat on the sides of the body to work with.
I don't think this would work on the circle mill thing (forget the spelling/name)
Excuse the bad photoshopping :D
http://models.firearmsmod.com/omni/newmag.jpg
Patron God of Pirates
09-10-2002, 10:17 AM
The original RT Mainbody was all the sex. How about different types of extended sleeves like that of the RT and Minimag.
It seems as though it would be easy to cut and you could offer a good variety (RT, Mini, long parallel slots, angular slots [i.e. the RT forgrip mount]) at what seems like it would be a low cost.
I would by an aluminum RT style sleeve if you made them.
http://store.airgun.com/agdprod/images/accessorie/rt_pol_hr_lg.jpg
PS- The whole extended sleeve thing screams Mag, that way you can go aluminum without "selling out".
shartley
09-10-2002, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
The original RT Mainbody was all the sex. How about different types of extended sleeves like that of the RT and Minimag.
It seems as though it would be easy to cut and you could offer a good variety (RT, Mini, long parallel slots, angular slots [i.e. the RT forgrip mount]) at what seems like it would be a low cost.
I would by an aluminum RT style sleeve if you made them.
http://store.airgun.com/agdprod/images/accessorie/rt_pol_hr_lg.jpg
PS- The whole extended sleeve thing screams Mag, that way you can go aluminum without "selling out".
I agree.
Slapp
09-10-2002, 11:29 AM
If you don't like vertical feed, want twist lock barrels and prefer stainless bodies then keep your powerfeed mag and be happy as a clam. Let's not discourage cost effective product innovation here.
The point of this body appears to be 1) make it lighter than the current SS bodies 2) allow it to be easily annodized for cost effective color options 3) make it compatible with existing AGD markers and 4) make it simple and inexpensive to produce so it can be brought to market quickly and at a good price point and presumably profit margin for AGD.
Severe, you had a great suggestion with the bolt on feed however I'm curious how much this would result in a higher cost and a longer time to produce.
Well there was too much to read to see if I am repeating soemthing. but here is what I see. The extreme bodies are the block cut bodies if people want one they can buy an extreme body. So if it saves money for the classic go with the tube. otherwise buy an extreme body. I HATE how it looks so far. But it does could look good. I think you should cut a slant in the front of the body like the emag/rt/rtpros have. that would do alot of the looks also rather then ribs just go with one recessed area about 1/2 to 1 inch and that would look good enough. also when you bring this out i suggest ditchign the classic laser engraving on the valve it is not very attractive. in fact I would suggest laser engraving beign much smaller all togethter
Vanced
09-10-2002, 01:38 PM
Tom,
First I want to say I know exactly where you comming from, see I got one of those nifty Mechanical Engineering Degrees.
Second, I want to say having that degree, makes me appciate the simple brillance of your work thru the years, and that is comming from a Mag Fan since nearly the begining who after being educated has had the ability to look at the gun in a differnt way other than "Mag's Kick ***" and truely appciate it for what it is. For it was things like the AutoMag that got me interested in Engineering to begin with, and for that I will be eternally greatfull.
Third, I work as a CAD designer, and just curious if maybe it would be possible to see some of the Dim's on that cut away? I would consider creating a 3D copy of it in CAD, and show that with some Simple engraving, laser or otherwise, that you could REALLY add some pop, and some spice to those bodies, with smiple things like flames, swirls, text, scales, or various other patterns. (I know this adds another step to the manufactuing process and added cost, machine & Man time, but would be mainly aftermarket sales but on the same new stock body, sound familar in the paintball world) Or on a higher note custom patterns or logo's are even possible. I am sure we all have seen some of the fancy engraving work that is done theese days on things like plates and trophies, heck go down to the Mall and the local "Things Remebered" And after the engraving is done, Add your Anno and WoW. But of course not sure if the wall thickness could support 'X' amount of engraving, but maybe an extra tenth of OD, if it wouldn't cause issues in the rail would be sufficent on my guess for the pressures.
Fourth, I belive strongly that Vert Feed, and threaded Barrels are the way to go, I like the added varity of picking my screw In Vert Feed, And I like the Slotted Barrels as much as the next Mag guy, but it's adapt or die.
Finally, please some day in the FUTURE please encorprate the Level 10 in the stock valves and basic markers.(IMHO - LX - the best up-grade ever for the mag Bar None, better than "E" or "RT" by far - it was so simply brillant I can't belive you or anyone else didn't come up with it long ago ) Please don't tarnish my ideals of the Mag being the Best Marker on the Market Air'd up out of the Box, and that would again put it again heads and shoulders above any of the compition in the $300+ price range of basic tourny grade markers.
Thanks for the continous drive to give us the best....
Vanced
BTW: For all those screaming BLOCK - wait on your extream like everyone else... It IS comming....
joeyjoe367
09-10-2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by shartley
I agree.
I'll second that. The Front "sleeve" sort of things are kind of like a Signature Automag cosmetic feature.
...Yeah I guess spyders DID try that on their TL's, etc... but it looks waaaay better on a mag :D
Shadow221
09-10-2002, 03:23 PM
I just had a great idea. On some duckbills there's a hole for a fitting on both the left and right sides. Whichever hole isn't being used has a plug screwed into it. How about you do something like that with the feed tube. have a hole cut on the top and both sides. have it come with 2 plugs and one feed tube. this way you can have the plugs in the sides and the feed at the top for vert feed. Then if you want to use a warp just unscrew the feed tube and one of the 2 plugs and switch them around. Then it's kinda like a modular body without having to buy extra modules.
I defenately agree with Thordic on this one.
I think this new body is a GREAT idea, and a step in the right direction.
And for all of you who want to stick with twist lock barrels because you already have a barrel collection; the reason for this new body design is to attract potential customers, if im not mistaken. Custumors that most likely dont want to go through the misery of trying to even FIND the twist lock barrel they want, let alone pay the extra 10 bucks for one.
Not to mention, it allows for a normal style ball detent, which is much more reliable in my opinion.
And for the milling and such of the new body, i think it has some potential. Something really needs to be done about the body rail though. Something that compliments the new ribbed milling might help.
The aluminum body paired with an all aluminum valve would probably make for the lightest, high performing marker available, and for a decent cost.
Slap level 10, an intelliframe, and an RT valve on it and you have a VERY nice marker in nearly all aspects (the new colors and milling will help alot).
Jenadin
09-10-2002, 03:41 PM
a couple of ideas:
Jenadin
09-10-2002, 03:43 PM
and
PsychoMag
09-10-2002, 03:54 PM
I like the idea. around the field, i think the smoother the better, less places to clean in between games :)
personman
09-10-2002, 04:09 PM
I am very angery at Airgun Designs. They switch threadings, I switch companies. I'm sorry, but what if WGP suddenly switched over to tippmann model 98 threading?
Havoc.
agdemagman69
09-10-2002, 04:15 PM
why the hell would wgp change to tippmann 98 threading? Tom is changing the threads for the BETTER, changing the threads to a 98 doesnt offer any advantage.
Anyway, the reason for using cocker threads is simple. To attract new customers. People with mag barrels have them because they already own a mag, But people with cocker threads already own another gun (i can think of about 100 guns that use cocker threads) If someone is thinking about changing guns, which we all do, they will see that the mag offers cocker threading and see that as a plus because they can keep their old barrel.
personman
09-10-2002, 04:22 PM
The only reason he is changing the threads is so it can be 'modular'.
I gave that as an example, because it is pointless.. just like this.. I'm sorry, but if AGD switches threads, Im switching compinies and thats that. Oh wow half my gun comes apart when you unscrew the barrel! Stupid. I already have barrels, and I'm keeping them. If I change barrels, might as well change guns.
spazzed
09-10-2002, 04:24 PM
I Think I saw something about this earlier in the thread, but are warp bodies possible with this?
FutureMagOwner
09-10-2002, 04:24 PM
person you have your barrels you have your body you dont need to buy this new body tom isnt making you buy it just keep your barrels and keep your body. others happen to want cocker threading and vert feeds and all the other bejaz and frankly more people want that so tom should aim ore towards it he should aim for the minority
personman
09-10-2002, 04:27 PM
I could'nt really care less.. some time or another my powerfeed is going to break or something stupid like that and the only replacement will be a friggin modual piece of crap..
Havoc_online
09-10-2002, 04:43 PM
I'm sorry, but if AGD switches threads, Im switching compinies and thats that. Oh wow half my gun comes apart when you unscrew the barrel! Stupid. I already have barrels, and I'm keeping them. If I change barrels, might as well change guns. Your whinning doesnt even make sense. If you switch companies, what will happen? You will have to sell your barrels to buy new ones anyway. In case you didnt know, there are ppl who convert mag barrels to cocker barrels for cheap, that would be your best bet.
person man it is most likely AGD is still goign to produce the original classic with ss body and barrel so you will not have to worry also quit being a selfish %&$#@. No one really gives a rip if one guy is going to leave, change his gun just cause they got thier panties in a bunch all over barrel threading. It might save you money but overall it will save many more people much more money to switch to cocker threads and if that means I have to give up the twist lock then I can live with that. You cant make an omlet, without breaking a few eggs.
what will the ball detent for this gun be? If you make it angel or cocker, you are going to have to design a better detent cause since the plastic nubbin the ball detents are no where near as reliable in my expirence.
i personally like the tippmann detents..
Also it would be great if it came with a All aluminum valve or at least the reg back AL like a retro. cut a little weight make the gun look sharp.
Originally posted by personman
I am very angery at Airgun Designs. They switch threadings, I switch companies. I'm sorry, but what if WGP suddenly switched over to tippmann model 98 threading?
Havoc.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I definately like the idea. I might have missed this but could you explain how you could put any vert adapter in the gun. Are timmies angel threaded? I would definately lose the Micro for one of those bodies and an aluminum RT Valve ;). I from the looks of it could this make the mag the lightest gun on the market?
i personally like the tippmann detents.. I just wanted to point out these can be a pain in the behind to work with cause they are pretty easy to lose. How about a proteam like detent?
magman007
09-10-2002, 06:06 PM
OK people, QUIT YER WHINING!
First off, this thing isnt looking too modular, well i got an idea. I think around the so called breach area, there should be some extra width, and the breach would be a litle wider too. NExt, we use the same baisic concept of the angel roto breach. but, since it is in a tubeular design,we can use the barrels to hold the breach in, and then use the roto thing, have 3 holes drilled for "side feed"(like a cocker for all you epople crying about powerfeed) and vert feed. The side feed would double as your warp feed, and the vert for you verters out there.
now you say, great idea mag man ,but waht about the vert feed tube? how would i clamp an elbow onto there for my powerfeed and or warp feed? well, agd sells a stub, thats all, a stub threaded for the feed tube, like on the sfls. a stub is al you need. Does any one have any freekin idea what im talking about here?
Spray Painter
09-10-2002, 06:23 PM
if AGD does come out with this type of body i would definetily look in to buying one although the bodies on the old thread look alot better. cocker threads and ball detents are the way to go.
Will Wood
09-10-2002, 06:41 PM
How about a "go alluminium" like the Go Retro program??
:D Yes, Sinnet I'm first.
pito189
09-10-2002, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by personman
I'm sorry, but if AGD switches threads, Im switching compinies and thats that.
If you switch companies you are going to have to switch barrels anyways. Unless you know a secret that no one else knows. NO OTHER COMPANY MAKES TWIST LOCK BARRELS.....
So you will be switching barrels IF you bought a new body or went to another company.
Just thought I would point that out to you.
Sinnet
09-10-2002, 06:45 PM
bastard !
will posted that because I just gave him the idea on AIM, lol... i'm thinking even if an aluminum body has scratches, AGD could polish them out and sell them like that, or re-powdercoat them and sell em that way.
... and will couldnt even spell aluminum right! ah, the disgrace!
tom- what's your take on ditching the twist-lock? *sniff*
:D
Will Wood
09-10-2002, 06:48 PM
My Virgin ears!! Army BAN HIM!!!
personman
09-10-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by pito189
If you switch companies you are going to have to switch barrels anyways. Unless you know a secret that no one else knows. NO OTHER COMPANY MAKES TWIST LOCK BARRELS.....
So you will be switching barrels IF you bought a new body or went to another company.
Just thought I would point that out to you.
Yep, but if I switched companies, I could offer a marker that the barrels work with..
pito189
09-10-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by personman
Yep, but if I switched companies, I could offer a marker that the barrels work with..
Well since I have no idea what that means. Because it is not anywhere near a coherant sentence.
I think you mean " Yep, but if I switched companies, I would have a marker that the barrels would work with." Thats what I think you mean, so I will reply to that.
If the aluminum bodies are made. You will still have your body that accepts twist lock barrels. So you will have a marker that your barrels will work with. So I'm not sure what your complaint here is?
marley618
09-10-2002, 07:36 PM
personman,
I don't understand what your problem is. You don't have to get an aluminum body for your mag. The reason other people want an aluminum body is for weight, and cocker threads because a lot of other guns take them (cocker, timmy, viking, excal, bushy, etc.) So people that have multiple guns MIGHT not have to have the same barrels with different barrels. If you were already thinking of getting another gun, go for it. Nobody is making you keep your mag if you want to try out something else, but I don't see why a new body has anything to do with it. The minimag, classic, and e-mag bodies will stil have the twist lock. Nobody knows why you are complaining about a new body, when you don't even NEED to get it.
Like most other people reading your posts,I am confused.
Coaster
09-10-2002, 08:02 PM
go with the no rises : http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=417813
dawump
09-10-2002, 08:38 PM
If the main reason is for "looks" then this vertical feed doesn't cut it for me. It's not clear if the feed tube is removable / modular or not.. if it was then I could be persuaded.
Looking at what is selling on ebay there are ALOT of used HL bodies that come and go, but very few HR. My guess is that people are buying HR for warp feeds and selling their HL ones on ebay.. so the market would be for a cheap, cool replacement body that works well with a warp.
You could perhaps even bundle them with a warp.
As for thread style..
IF AGD CHANGE THREAD STYLE I AM GOING TO SWITCH TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BRAND OF UNDERWEAR
..then go buy a new Freak back. No biggy.
Keith
TransMan
09-10-2002, 09:04 PM
Well i dont really like threads i would MUCH rather have a twistlock. But it really doesnt matter because I dont think they will be making RT bodies.:(
aaron_mag
09-10-2002, 09:08 PM
Okay lay off personman. The multiple posts have hopefully made him realize that throwing his mag into the river just because AGD came out with a new body is ridiculous.
:D
sniper1rfa
09-10-2002, 09:48 PM
Extrusions
tom, have you thought of having the rounded squarish body (i like that idea) extruded.
this would save cost, and if you have four jaw chucks for your lathes, you could lathe them down and cut the threads and such. you could also maybe taper the body down towards the front. this would also rid you of the cost of making the body rails and make vert feed easy to do. it would leave room for custom milling also. you could even make warp bodies (for a bit more cash).
basically this would keep the cost of the tube while getting the customizeability of a block.
:D
z-zero
09-10-2002, 09:56 PM
AGD,
Stay with the aluminum tube for pretty colors and the like, and for those who don't like the whole tube on a frame thing think about this. Design a body rail that wraps up and around or behind or in front of the main body.
I think this will cut costs and look cooler. You use the lathe for the mainbody, and the mill for the rail, put them together for a nice modular not a tube on a frame look. I'd do some photoshop, but I don't know how. This way you could also mix and match colors for 2-tone mags! The mainbody would slide into the "rail" (mainbody frame whatever you want to call it.) then the valve would be inserted and grip attached.
This would also make it backwards compatible for a fair price. Someone could just buy a mainbody if they want color, or a mainbody and "rail" if they want more. Maybe I'm in left field but it sounds like a good idea to me.
z-zero
Guys,
Please calm down about the twist lock barrel thing. YES we will continue to make stainless bodies. Heck, with as many as we have in stock if we didn't make another one most of you would be out of paintball before we ran out. I'm as money grubbing as the next guy, if enough people want it we make it. Remember, we brought back the Minimag didn't we!!?? (actually it never left)
Please forget about the twist lock and do more photoshop.
AGD
Miscue
09-11-2002, 03:07 AM
Round tube alum tube... with piece(s) to slide over tube:
(Didn't add vert feed to picture)
Miscue
09-11-2002, 03:13 AM
As per Tato's suggestion:
Clare
09-11-2002, 03:39 AM
heyy! I know that mag! too bad it was stolen :(
Dragoon
09-11-2002, 09:14 AM
I think this is a great idea.
It will give AGD a body that can be made flashy easily. I like the idea of different fronts (RT, Mini, etc.). Color of course would be an easy option. With screw in vert. feeds you can have aftermarket ones of your choice added later (especially if the threading is the same as say the Angel).
I don't think this will, or should, replace a deluxe, milled, removable breach body. But it will give AGD regular markers some marketing punch. It will also keep the marker afordable. Those of us who want more flash and options will have to pay more for the Extreme type bodies.
I think your on the right track AGD. DO IT!!!
Douglas
(P.S. I suck at photoshop or I'd have done up some designs. Come on guys lets see some more pics!!)
ok.... so im not great at photoshop... but you see what im gettin at... and i think i slanted the wrong side of the body too :o
i tried to get rid of all that extra white space but i couldnt figure out how:mad:
Design Team,
We have listened and we are responding. We met with our machine shop this morning and we are working out a way to leave more meat on top of the body. The result will be much more blocky and allow for a lot of customization.
I am going to close this thread and will start another once we get closer on the new body style. Thanks for the help, as you know everyone here is part of our team.
Thanks,
AGD
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