Is a revised stock trigger frame needed?

[Angry Man]

I was reading a thread about how great mags were and how they were the best for the money. I'd agree to a certain extent--they perform very well considering the sub-300 price tag--but a few things are holding stock mags back: the need for level ten and the stock trigger pull. I'm not exaggerating when I say that the stock mag trigger pull is one of the hardest and most difficult triggers I've ever pulled. I find I can fire the intelliframe nearly twice as fast, and I have to say that even the benchmark frame is much nice.

Currently, to get really good performance out of a mag, you need level ten and an intelliframe...personally I'd add a foregrip too for balance, but that's just me. A stock mag may be 250 dollars give or take, but add 120 for the intelliframe and 80 for level ten and the mag is a 450 dollar marker.

I assume new mags will have level ten installed in them, but I honestly believe something needs to be done about the stock frames. It's fine that they're made of carbon fiber and plastic, but the trigger pull is too hard...the extra leverage added by a two finger trigger just makes things so much easier.

Two finger triggers have already been proven to be more popular (it's what most markers come stock with, and the popularity of hinge trigger frames shows that even us cocker users like the smoothness of a two finger trigger). 45 frames are also gaining in popularity tremendously.

I think it's time AGD put a two finger trigger on stock mags similar to the intelliframe in basic design, but made of the same material as the current frames and no built in intellifeeding ability, perhaps with cheaper grips, too. The fact is that double finger 45 grip frames are becoming very popular on other markers, and the intelliframe improves the ROF of stock mags by a tremenous amount. This would still leave the option of upgrading to the buyer so that the intelliframe would continue making money for AGD, but would deliver a far nicer marker for the price...and I can't see how adding a double trigger and extending the trigger guard could be too expensive.

In the age of electros firing 13bps in semi, a marker's trigger pull has become a more and more important factor in the success of a marker. Electro-blowbacks are popping up everywhere (even WGP has one, and they put a hinge on their highest end cocker as well)...showing that the ability to shoot a lot of paint is becoming more important to the customer than being able to shoot paint well.

[FooTemps]

It'd take a lot to retool the grip manufacturing tools be it molds or something else. The mag gripframe isn't a 45 and it isn't a double trigger so it would have to be completely redone... very expensive.

Also, the mag trigger pull isn't very hard. It's just that most people are fairly lazy and don't want to try hard to get good with a hard trigger. There are people out there who can pull 10-13 bps with a stock single trigger mag...

[Cliffio]

also lets be realistic, agd needs to make money somhow, if you want a new trigger frame, buy one

Cliff

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by FooTemps
10-13 bps with a stock single trigger mag...

i dunno bout the 11-12-13 range, thats super fast for a mag single plastic frame, i can do 13 on an angel and thats kinda tough

you gotta be tryin REALLY hard to get that on a mech mag trigger


Cliff

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Cliffio


i dunno bout the 11-12-13 range, thats super fast for a mag single plastic frame, i can do 13 on an angel and thats kinda tough

you gotta be tryin REALLY hard to get that on a mech mag trigger


Cliff

Yeah I know, it's something that only a handful of paintballers can do.

[Cliffio]

kinda like making their cocker shoot father?

:)

Cliff

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Cliffio
kinda like making their cocker shoot father?

:)

Cliff

no... it's not like that since there's probably only 4 people in the world who might be capable of doing it... shooting a mech single trigger mag that is, not making a cocker shoot farter... everyone can do that by turning up their velocities or tilting the barrel up... lol

[Cliffio]

ahh you shot my joke to pieces, i was just playin, i was only saying that it would be really hard

thats all

cliff

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Cliffio
ahh you shot my joke to pieces, i was just playin, i was only saying that it would be really hard

thats all

cliff

:D I finally did it! I've perfected my joke shooting down technique!!! YAY!!! I knew you were kidding but it was my goal to shoot it down with ease... lol

[potti]

i can pull 9bps (tested, not an estimate) on a stock single trigger frame. it is broken in with at least 20,000 shots fired. some people i have met really like the stock trigger with some rubber grips on them, its not that bad.

[BTAutoMag]

i think that there should be a carbon fiber 2x stock frame. wouldnt cost too much more to manufacture and im sure it will help sell mags in the long run.

[rhetor22]

I think AGD should market some mags with no trigger frames.

Hey they don't come with barrels.

Tom's logic of "who keeps the stock barrel anywho" could apply here.

Nevermind. Thats stupid.

I think a double frame made of carbon fiber would be funky. The trigger gaurd might have problems.

I don't really think it would be practical.

[Tron]

My friend uses a classic and I really like the single trigger. I had no problems firing it fast and would of had gone faster if he had a rico or something.

-Tron

[Angry Man]

I don't believe 10-13bps on a stock mag frame, I do believe 8-9. But that doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that AGD should have mags that come with a frame that anyone can rip on, not one that only a few can.

I fired my friend's mag with a stock frame, and then with an intelliframe. The difference was unbelieveable. Because of the trigger mechanism in a mag, the extra leverage from a two finger trigger increases performance a great deal. The bottom finger has to pull further, but it's a much lighter pull and the top finger area maintains the shortness of a single finger stock pull.

I don't see how it could be too expensive, either. Heck, you could modify your stock frame to double finger pretty easily...cut off the trigger guard and solder a piece of metal onto the trigger.

Double finger triggers have been proven to be more popular for both comfort and speed (why they're on electros) and for lightness of pull (why they're on spyders...notice tippmans (which has much nicer trigger pulls) don't have them standard yet.) Mags have nice, short trigger pulls but they're pretty hard. A double trigger would add speed, lightness, and comfort.

Now if they had a stock z-grip, THAT would be cool....but it would also destroy sales.

[Tron]

Why not just get an RT Pro if you want all of that? I can't pull 10-13 on my stock '02 cocker and I paid $223 for it new it also has a single trigger. But I can always upgrade it 3rd party parts or just go with WGP and get something of theirs like their double hinge trigger.

That mod is illegal in any tournies you play and plain looks ugly.

About the spyders pull I am sorry but that is a good inch unless your talking about the electros. But I will agree with the tippmann I can rip on my friends 98c. I told him to get a rico or something so he can use it to its potential.

-Tron

[Angry Man]

New cocker for 223? Where'd you get that?

[Schnitzel]

not everybody likes 2x frames. It's just easier to keep it the way it is.

[FooTemps]

::sigh:: you guys dont' understand... IT IS EXPENSIVE. AGD can't just change it magically... You have to spend money to retool the manufacuring machinery for the grip. I dunno if it will be THAT expensive but I think it would still be a bit up there on the price.

[Tron]

Originally posted by Angry Man
New cocker for 223? Where'd you get that?

Ebay some guy won it in a tourney and I bought it. =)

-Tron

[angelKiller16]

yes but the benifits of increased sales will benifit AGD. It can't cost a ton to make an extra groove in the press machine that will make a double trigger guard.

[Tron]

Then you do it and make tons of people happy as well as making money.

-Tron

[angelKiller16]

I was making a point, Obviusly I CAN'T do that because I don't have the machinery to do that like AGD does.

[xmetal2001]

Actually, because of the way the mold is made it can't just be easily changed. It would have to be completely redone, which isn't easy.

Tom talked about this in a past thread.

[FutureMagOwner]

i dont know why you want to change the stock frame on it its the best trigger i have ever shottened :)