PB2X and AGD's perception

[Blazingace]

Hello,

I just read the October issue of Paintball 2 Xtremes. I really enjoy that mag and it has some very good articles and the pictures are always topnotch. But there are not alot of 'Mag pics or related articles. Except for this issue and that is what I want to talk about. There was definatly some good stuff in this issue. Tom and AO and the Shatner game. Half an article on the IAO tech conference and stuff like that. There was also some stuff that could have gone better for us. Jay Smackowski and the controversal AGD Billboard. AGD Lions and Pride at the IAO. Things like that.


On the good side of the coin in this issue Tom Kaye is the huge celebrity. His name and/or face is all over the place. I love it. Since Paintball is such a perception driven thing Tom Kaye all over was great. AGD Lions maxing every prelim game was great. The huge picture in the Hot Shots section of a C&C Extreme was great. Major points all around for that. The Market pulse section that has a good spread about AO was the best thing that could happen. I know that I have talked to many 'Mag users and found out that they have no idea that AO exists.

On the down side there are some major points deducted for things in the bad image department. Having the proper name on the Hot Shots page would have been nice. Since the Extemes are such a radical departure from the AGD design norm, I wish there was more to connect AGD with the giant pic on that page. Since you don't see alot of pics of 'Mags in a tourney setting, the indecnet exposure section can be condsidered a negative. If people perceive that 'Mags are not serious guns then they might not consider purchasing a 'Mag.

How I wish that AGD Lions and Pride could have finished 1 and 2 at the IAO. If you have the magazine then you would know what I am talking about. Tippman Effect wins and the whole IAO article is about them. They even get interviewed and a gun segment on the A-5. Imagine if an AGD team won the kind of coverage we would get. The kind of coverage we deserve.

If you get PB2X on a regualar basis you might have been following the Perfect Player articles. I personally think that they are very good. They are close to, if not right on on most accounts. The last one focused on equipment. It mentions the Angel as the be-all-end-all gun as electros go. The E-mag got alot of kudos for its ability to switch between modes and interface with the Warpfeed. The one factor that killed the E-mag was its weight. The author also stated that 'Mags chop. Now I know that this article was written before the Lvl 10 and Extreme E-mags, but it still looks bad. I have put 6 cases of paint through my Lvl 10 Mini with not a single chop. Also the IAO tech article mentions that the C&C Extreme is lighter that the IR3 angel.

Finally, the coup de grace is the Jay Smackowski article at the end of the magazine. There was a long discusion about the AGD billboard at the IAO. Many people voiced their opinions about it and this is not the place to rehash old news, but it seems that it has come back to haunt us. Since 'Mags don't get the kind of coverage that other guns do this tiny little 1/4 page blurb hurts. Paintball is on the verge of becoming mainstream and AGD should be right there with WGP, WDP and the likes of Dye and 32 Degrees. We should not be relegated to the likes of Bruizer and KAPP and Facefull magazine. These images stay with people, that is what they are designed to do. It is images like these that might mean the difference between a loyal AGD customer and another Cocker or Angel owner.

I love AGD and my Minimag. I have a dream of the perfect C&C Extreme that I will purchase. But most of all I want to AGD products featured in magazines. I want to see action photos of 'Mags right along with Angels, Cockers and the rest. I don't want the Angel to be the be-all-end-all paintball gun.

I am tired of explaining my gun to people who don't know AGD. It is all summed up when I went to the field a couple months ago. I was playing some of the best woods ball of my life. I was unstoppable. A little kid walked up to me with his E-99 Spyder and asked what kind of gun was I using. I told him it was an Airgun Designs Minimag. He looked at me kind of funny and said that he never heard of them.

I know that some of you think that I am knit-picking things, well you might be right. But I worked in retail before and I know what it is like once the customer has their mind set on something. BETA was better than VHS but what did we end up with? Macintosh is easier to work with and use but we all have PCs with one form or another of Windows. We all know that AGD makes the toughest, fastest and most reliable gun, but if the customer has something else in mind what do we get? 11 year olds with Fly IR3 Angels or Toxic Impulses. Perception is the driving force behind retail. So think about all the little things that are said or are in print or photos and add all that up.

I am sorry if I am a little long winded about things. That is how strongly I feel about paintball and AGD in particular. If you read through all this I hope you understand what I am saying.

Thank you,
Joel D'Attilio

[magman007]

OK, you think one bilboard is going to keep agd down? what about the angel heven reputation? thats pretty crazy man. You just gotta think, sex sells, i wonder howmany wiar feeds were sola at the iao? how many were used and so fourth? what is so wrong with agd actually advertizing

[56kSomeGuy]

Yay just got my issue of pb2x and I just read some of the articles. I am a new subscriber and only got like three issues. The thing that I notice in the other two issues that I got, are that there is almost nothing in there about mags. Are pb2x bias aginst mags? In this issue they have some mag related articles but bearly.

[Puddleglum]

We should not be relegated to the likes of Bruizer and KAPP and Facefull magazine.

KAPP's a pretty happining company. And I think AGD is going to make a HUGE comback with the Xtreme and LvL 10. Around here(Georgia, namely Snellville, people are talking about it all over.

[Blazingace]

The thread is an analyzation of one issue of PB2X. Have you read the magazine Magman007? Are you aware of the implications that bad press and rep. can give a company? I don't know adout Chile, but in the US bad press can spell doom. I wasn't talking about the billboard but about the press it generated. Think about how AGD, a company that is rarely covered, and how bad press reflects on a company that doesn't get alot of exposure. Think about it.

[gatorchris]

Its not PB2X thats biased, its the industry as a whole I think. The mag just isnt (wasnt possibly because of LX) considered a good tourney gun. I havent been playing relatively long, but I did lots of research and talked to lots of players before buying my first tourney marker. All I heard from people was mags chop, they dont work with brittle paint, and personally I didnt like anything looks-wise until the E mags.
I think the E mags and LX will rise, especially the extremes, but its going to be a long road to win over the high end tourney guys. One thing that will help is advertising, but the big boost will be getting a pro team to commit to using them and hopefully, winning. I have been shooting Timmys since they were big and ugly, so I got to see the effect the GZ had first hand. It basically put the timmy on the map as a high end tourney gun worth shelling out lots of money on. People were buying them because they said GZ, not because they knew a single thing about the marker. Sad but true, doesnt matter how good your product is if you cant get someone famous to SAY its good. I came over during the "WAS tribunals" and I must say Im giving serious thought to getting an E mag to play with, wouldnt say that without LX though.

[Blazingace]

Yeah I realize that KAPP was bad example. They are pretty good with their stuff.

[shartley]

Blazingace
Very well written. You bring up points that have been centers of discussion for the past few years, and HOT ones at that, here on AO.

Keep to your guns, you are correct. I have all the respect for others opinions, but no amount of AGD Worship will change the way the REAL world works. We have seen this time and time again. And it is funny how AO tries to bust “myths” about accuracy and general marker issues by using FACTS and physics, but when it comes to how the world views things, marketing, and consequences/potential consequences for certain decisions made (or not made) concerning marketing and related issues, too many peoples’ blinders suddenly go on.

“We will deal with the truth when it benefits us, but when we don’t hold up, we will ignore the truth and go with diehard zelotism (word? Maybe not, but it works…LOL).” ;)

Also, it is well known here on AO that the best argument about bad decisions is to point fingers in every other direction and bring up other companies mistakes and practices. Also, if that does not work you can just bash those who don’t like what AGD did, even if they state their opinions in a rational and calm manner… yeah, that seems to work often here… just make sure you are in the right clique. ;)

OR… we can just say everyone else brave enough to be honest, are making more of a situation than it really is. It will, after all, just blow away….. that is if it really was a problem in the first place. After all, noone really has a problem with things except prudes, loudmouths, folks on their high horses, etc. Right?

The truth of the matter is that perception sells, or prevents a sale. And like it or not, this can be a two edged sword….. ouch! Furthermore, you can not pick and choose which “perceptions” are real and will or will not hurt you… or can you? I guess it is a matter of convenience and what makes us feel better. :D

The paintball industry has been changing, and is going through growing pains. It is now at a point where the lines are being drawn between distinct classes (and I am not pointing fingers at anyone, nor even care where anyone fits into these). And these class lines (it seems) have little to do with income level, but more with personal values and expectations. And some are still living in a fog of denial that allows them to think that you can still have all your “fun” and do almost anything, and have the sport advance. There is no need to raise the bar, after all things always just get better on their own.. doing the same things.. year after year..

Take for instance last year’s IAO…. And those that had a problem with what happened there were just making too much out of nothing, right? Noone REALLY had a problem with it, right? Because you did not see a huge number of people stepping forward and stating their displeasure about what happened (might have had something to do with the way people who did got treated when they voiced their opinion) , noone actually had a problem with it? Oh, but we find out NOW that there were big issues and that some of the major players involved were less than pleased… hmmmmm

To all this I sit back and shake my head. How can people who are clearly very intelligent (and those on AO are some of the brightest folks in paintball that the internet has to offer) seem to be so blind about these issues? “I told you so.” is really no consolation when what was being “told” was not good. I would rather not be able to say that, but have instead the industry, paintball players, AGD, and AO grow in a positive direction……..

Again, Blazingace, stick to your guns…. Like a child, the Paintball Industry seems to want to grow into adulthood kicking and screaming all the way. Just look back 10 years ago, and most will say “I can’t believe we did that…”, and the same will be said 10 years from now. ;)

[Blazingace]

I always can count on you Shartley to put things in perspective. Thank you.:D

[FutureMagOwner]

good points...

and SHartly, it would be Zealotism if not that it would be something like Zelotcrit either that or just plain stupid;)

[Troy]

Blazingrace,

Tom is working on changing the image of the company as we speak. The Level 10, the Extreme, the new aluminum body mag(what ever it is going to be called), the Warp Feed, and the new teams are all working on changing that.

There were more Warp feeds at the IAO than any other tournament I have ever been at. With the level 10 and the Extreme you are only going to see more of AGD.

As far as teams go, the Lions wanted nothing more than to bring home a first place at the IAO. It was the quietest, longest 8 hour car ride ever. Every 15 min we would just ask each other how the freak we lost. It came down to not playing the field properly (we put to many guys on a hold side). We are very close to having a team that can compete at the top level. Look for us to be on the podium in the future.

I can tell you this much, if there were teams there that played us and didn't take mags seriously they do now. Even after losing the first two games of the semis we made an adjustment and went on to hand BE Allstars a beating for the second time.

Anyway I will stop babling

Troy

AGD LIONS

[aaron_mag]

AGD Lions......

You guys are definetely are competing with top level teams. I mean come on you swept the first day. Things happen. We're rooting for you.

As far as concerns for AGD go I think that they will do fine in the long run. Once they get the Extremes in the regular product line (stocked in stores) they will be alot of peoples hands. Don't equate AGD with Beta just yet

:)

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Blazingace
The thread is an analyzation of one issue of PB2X. Have you read the magazine Magman007? Are you aware of the implications that bad press and rep. can give a company? I don't know adout Chile, but in the US bad press can spell doom. I wasn't talking about the billboard but about the press it generated. Think about how AGD, a company that is rarely covered, and how bad press reflects on a company that doesn't get alot of exposure. Think about it.

Uh Blazing Ace...
Magman007 is an American. He is in Chile as a foreign exchange student. He probably understands the USA as well as both of us!:p

[KamikazeChiKenz]

Well you know what they say..."There's no such thing as bad publicity"...well maybe there is but I don't think this is a big deal at all

[*ArKfEaR*]

Originally posted by Blazingace
11 year olds with Fly IR3 Angels or Toxic Impulses. Perception is the driving force behind retail.


Thank you,
Joel D'Attilio


Hrrm. But is it ok per say, if AGD was one of the top companies right now. And instead of 11 year olds with angels and impys they would have Extremes and RTs'?

And younger kids shouldn’t have those mags neither cause remember since mags are the "best guns now" they cant shoot them. See you have to think about certain stuff, if AGD was in WDPs spot what would it be like? If Kingman was even in WDPs Spot what would it be like? (No I'm not on crack)

You have to think hard some times. For instance, you made a remark regarding to young guns having nice markers? But is the stereotype supposed to be young guns shooting BE guns or spyders cause they can’t afford them? Maybe they are blessed and luckily live in a wealthy family therefore they receive nice presents daily? (Not like you wouldn’t accept a new Audi TT Quattro dad, or a new full Emag Extreme setup from mom?) I’m 17 I work my butt off and hearing people complain about newbs never the less even younger "good" players shooting/using top-notch equipment for free gets on my nerves. Although sometimes it angers me when I see newbs with nice stuff treat there equipment like crap or see there parents buy them stuff and the kid being bratty about the whole thing. Certain things like that bug me, and I know where you’re coming from. But what about the innocent ones who work their butts off just as hard as us save for years just to play with good equipment? They deserver props too. See as you said before it’s all about perception what about the perception of younger players being brats and being sucky?

[Micromag Sith]

I see what you mean. Even though I had to think about it for a moment. I am not nearly as impressed wth angels as I used to be. Its not because they are bad guns, its because everybody seems to have one. Now I dont think there is anything they could come out with that wold truly impress me. Anything they do just seems like hype to me. I am probably compleetly wrong to think this way, but at this point it would be verry hard to change my mind. I honnetly hope that AGD never gets to this point. (sorry tom)

[yeahthatsme]

Well you know what they say..."There's no such thing as bad publicity"...well maybe there is but I don't think this is a big deal at all

there is in these days when al these people are rooting for political correctness and womens rights and everything. not that i disagree with them.

[Blazingace]

I think that my point was mudled in the translation. I am not saying that 11 years old shouldn't have nice markers. I think that they should all have E-Mags, though. What I am saying is that they have them because they think they are the best. People always have something to say even if they don't understand what the meaning of the thread was. I was pointing out that Angels and other guns get more publicity than AGD guns. The point of the thread was AGD's perception in the mings of the masses. Everyone sees Angels and Autocockers in a tourney setting in these magazines. The 'Mags are usually in the woods. I was analyzing one issue of a popular Paintball magazine. Read the whole post before you react to what I wrote.

[*ArKfEaR*]

Well tell tom that his marketing sucks. How is it the other companies’ fault for making good products and having the publicity to back it up?

AGD should do the same. Instead of just having most of the stuff they publicize on here, do it in the magazines.

[56kSomeGuy]

Yup AGD defintely needs better marketing. In all the magizines that I read I have never saw one e-mag ad in them. There aren't any automag/minimag/micromag ads either. The last automag ad that I saw was like 2 years ago and thats it. All I see now are mutiple ads of spyders, tippmanns, Cockers, angels, intimidators, ect...

[RetroEclipseMan]

I agree. I don't think that you can get mad at all the other companies for advertising and working hard to get people to buy their products.From the couple years that I've been playing it seems that AGD has used the "quality" factor to sell their products. I know that I didn't buy my mag based on a cool add but because of the quality.

I think that once the extreme comes out and the lvl 10 demands go down then AGD will have more time to concentrate on advertising and you will start to see more mags at fields cause we all know that in America succesfull advertising is what sells.

Just for an example look at how many hondas you see on the road today versus how many volkswages. It's because Honda puts a lot more effort into advertising than VW did. It's not that a honda is any better it's the fact that they advertised a lot more even though VW is now advertising much more than they did a few years ago and now you're starting to see more of them which is hopefully what will happen with AGD products.

Sorry for the long post but just had to put in my $.02