Automag... A tourney gun?

[TecnoRobo]

Now this is just a general question. Im not a mag basher, I own one and I like it a ton. But is the Mag a tourney gun. I dont want replys about emags or rts. They are both very capable tourney guns. Im just talking about the classic and powerfeed 68s...

I'd like a good answer
If your gonna say no, dont say

no, its not a tourney gun because its unnacurate.

Id like an answer more like this

Yes, i think its a good tourney gun because its comfortable and has a light trigger.

Mainly notice I think... also if you do have an answer like the first one please explain why you think its unnacurate. There might be a problem you have that we could solve from this...

Thanks guys, and have fun.

[magsRus]

The automag classic and minimag are tourny guns to an exstent (sp?) in my mind. I think you can do local and small tournies but an automag or minimag is just no competition level enough to be doing high NPPL tournies w/. Some may disagree so may agree.


So your answer yes it is but no it isnt when your talking NPPL style

[potti]

the automag is very much a tournament gun. it is very comapct, has an easy twist lock barrel, and level 10 which almost completely eliminates ball chopping. then if you want to upgrade, a retro valve can be dropped in to make it an rt. it has a short crisp trigger, which i like very much with an intelliframe with blade trigger. i hope thats helps.

[personman]

A stock mag, I dont think its welcome in the way of tournies, unless its like rookie stuff. Maby a retro valve.
A mag just cant keep up with these god damned electros. :(
Even rec ball I get overwhelmed. I mean, these electros are getting out of hand.

[giblit]

i use my mag in tournaments i dont get bashed or anything, i like it, any gun can be used in tournaments, its all in how you use it, i forget what team broke out and used spyder xtras and held their own.

[FeelTheRT]

any marker can be a tourney marker. Look at team Tippmann Effect. They use M98s and A5s and play Am.

[TecnoRobo]

thanks guys for all the posts, keep em comin

[MinimagRockin']

I think it is a totally capable tournament gun. As a matter of fact any gun (with the exception of the really crappy ones like stingrays) can be used as a tournament gun if you ask me. I bet if you took the highest ranked pro paintball team in the world and made them use spyders instead of their $2000 guns I bet they would still kick alot of ***.

[paintbattler]

i dont think a bone stock mag is a good gun for tournies. one thing, a bone stock mag from 888paintball doesnt have a barrel so it wont do any good anyways. if the mag had intelliframe, warp, (retro but u said not to talk about it so this dont count), lvl 10, and a n2 tank it would be the ideal intermediate paintball tourney marker, but nothing compared to the nppl's guns that they use in it

[Emagster]

the stock mag or mini mag...i dont believe it is very tourny ready. a stock mini/mag IS a very good gun for rec ball and the sort. but lets face it, what tourny player EVER has a stock gun? a tourny player is going to do everything to their gun that they an afford MOST of the time

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

Stock? No. No barrel:)

Upgraded, OF COURSE! Manny's old RetroMag is the shiznit, and he plays NPPL, well now he has a SFL or Extreme I think but still he used his RetroMag for a while proving that the Automag is a competing tournament level gun.(after Retro, Intelliframe, barrel, Nitro, Revy)

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

To sum up my last post, one word.....

MANNY!

[Thrash]

It doesn't really matter whats in your hands in a tournament. ITs skill that matters more. If your really good, you can take out a few electros with a tippmann. Some people really suk with a good gun. I an automag is a good tourny gun is because of its reliability. I never had problems with mine. Plus if you don't shoot fast think of the money you are saving. I played with a works autococker and he had a revy but he shot really slow and took out a lot of guys cuz he was good. He didn't need to shoot fast. Thats my opinion.

[Blazingace]

I believe that it can be used as a tourney gun with little or no upgrades. With a few upgrades they rock. My Lvl 10 HyperRetroMini is superfast. Faster that Cockers and as fast as high end electros. It is very accurate with a good paint/barrel match. In fact I shoot too much paint with it.

[TecnoRobo]

Here are my thoughts

Stock mags on CO2 just dont work as well as one with a good setup. Currently im running CO2 ( still dont have the money to buy a tank, the gun still works well tho ) but i have a nice setup that could probably pass at a local tourney or intermediate.

I personally dont care how fast people can shoot with there high end electros. Dont get me wrong i would love it if i could fire that fast with my mag, but i hate playing spray and pray.

So i really think its your personal prefrence. I'd rather shoot a mag than a cocker ( we wont get into that )

[Magluvr]

I think that the 68classic or Mini is a good tournament gun. Just go with a good barrel, n2 (or a good 2nd reg), level 10 and you will be set. Because it is the skill that counts, anyone can spray and pray.

[Skoad]

The mag is great, but i think it could be even better if it was lighter. It is REALLY heavy.

[Shirow]

You think mags are really heavy? I don't think they're too bad...

For tourneys, I can't see anyone complaining about using a mag w/ level 10, a retro valve and a warp.

[Frydrice4you]

I think the mag can work well with very few upgrades. All u need is a decent barrel, revy, and nitro tank. (getting a nitro tank is still cheaper than getting a good co2 setup). And depending on what u like a drop forward or foregrip. Thats all i have on my mag and I still hold my own against the local tourney team. It is much more the gun that the person. I laugh at people who blow all their money on upgrades and still suck.

[yeahthatsme]

to whoever said that he gets overwhelmed by e-guns at rec play i held my own with a mag with retro and inteli for atleast 3-4 minutes against a matrix and 3 spyders. i also took out a guy with a sweet impulse. its all how you play the gun. i held my own against 5-6 people with more jumping in periodically. if you put a retro, inteli, revvy, hpa or n2, and a good barrel with a good paint match + some skill you can easily when a tourney. i am gonna play in a tourny soon with a mag.

[Shamu]

a classic mag with no powerfeed is not a tourney level gun, in my opinion. a powerfeed mag is a local tourney level gun. why, you ask? well, the feeding rate on a classic mag coupled with the stock parts could shoot well enough to play (if shot using nitrogen), however, with the increasing rate of fire even at the local level... it just won't work well. i'd say the powerfeed mag would work though.

[virus]

hmm...lets see... my local field had not workin air compresser today... so i had to dig out all the parts i needed to run co2.... boy was that a chore... digging up a bottom line.....

needless to say i was still firing just about as fast as i do when i have my retro on it....

even teh E-totes at the field didnt notice i lost maybe 2-3 bps... the only thing that tipped them off was i took off my warp and was running a remote... (24oz tank stuck into my 4.3 dim pack...

so the only thing not stock on mine today was the lvx kit, 12v x-rev, zgrip.... and runnin on co2, w/o a x-chamber.... (couldn't get it off my old pos griffen).... kept the fps with in +/-2 all day...

so yes the mag is pretty much ready out of the box as a good tourny marker.....

[Wc Keep]

at the last ao day there was a mini tourney that you could only use agd products in. that meant that emags were being put up against regular mags and 68 mags were going up against emagnums. the 68 mags held their own. i was one of the ones using a 68 and i did fairly well.

the ones who said it how you use the gun are right. with 2x frame i can rip on my mag like theres no tomorrow. with a retro and lvl 10 ill be able to rip even faster.

[rhetor22]

i would gladly take my ray into a tourney. Its just the same as any other gun.

I would feel much more confident with my ray also. An electro would just put doubt in my mind.

Doubt never comes into mind while using my mag of course. Its a great little gun.

It ain't the size of the gun that matters, its how you use it. ;)

[Shamu]

powerfeed automags can be made into tournament guns. let's face this one fact though guys, with a classic mag nearly all stock (add a barrel and air source), you would have to be an extremely good player to pull something off at a tournament, and very few of us are that good. sure, we've all had great days, and i'm sure we've all had bad days. we can't all say that we're bill ceranski's from aftershock, or even manny...

at our skill level, the gun you use will shape your play somewhat. even if the only thing holding you back from winning with say... a classic 'mag is your mental block about the gun being good enough, that can still stop you from winning. we are human beings, and if we are convinced that our equipment is sub-par even a little bit, it can affect our performance overall.

i'd love to sit here and say that the player is what counts 100% of the time and not the gun, but i just simply can't. it's not the case. take NPPL Pro player A, versus NPPL Pro player B. Give Player A an Extreme E-mag that has all the goodies wanted and needed. Give player B a Classic mag with a barrel and air source. if the players are of equal skill, what happens? i would say that more than likely, Pro Player A will win.

I'm not trying to flame all of you who said that the player is what counts. It really is... but when you examine 2 tournament players of equal skill, the equipment is what makes the difference...

[RetroEclipseMan]

I totally agree that it is the player and not the gun that matters. You do have to look at what position you're playing though. I don't think a bone stock 68 Classic would be a worthy gun for a back player who has to shoot a lot of paint fast to cover the front guys.

[misfit]

im also "it sthe player not the gun guy" this kid i was playing with had a rebel (low end one with verticle tank) said no wonder your good look at your gun.(emag) i said find trade, and i played teh rest of the day with the rebel. no problems.

[SiLeNt X]

I dont think a stock 68mag with a barrel will ever be in the hands of a pro team at a major tourny unless if they are paid very hansomely. The other day I used a angel and did better with it because I could put more paint in the air and the result:more paint on my opponits

[paint magnet]

You could say the same thing about stock cockers. BM's and STO's and the like are considered tourney guns, so why not the stock ones? IMO, it's the same with the mags. They just don't have all the goodies. As long as it shoots and won't break, any gun can be used, and using a gun with a slower ROF will show the player's true skill. (look at Total Grief for example)

[Shamu]

to truly compare its tournament capabilities, you really would have to clone yourself, then give yourself #1 an IR3 Angel, then give yourself #2 a bone stock classic mag. who wins? most of the time it will be yourself #1 with the IR3. granted, against players of lesser skill, a stock mag could be used to win, but when playing against players at a higher skill level, equipment can make some of the difference. not all, but some.

[TRIAD]

I sure do love when people compare a 1500+ dollar gun to a 300 dollar one. DANG, my friend's ferrari sure is better than that stinky Mazda MPV. Now, compare Xtreme to IR3, there ya go. Although the extreme is less expensive.

[Shamu]

I know full well that that is not a fair comparison, but if you would read my post and look at my intentions instead of making fun of me.. you would see that it works for what I am trying to prove.

Many people have said that the player is all that matters, and that the gun doesn't matter as long as you are a skillful player. I agree with that, to an extent, but it fails to work for every single case out there. It only works when your skill level can make up for the lack of better equipment.

When you go to a tournament, and you face players of equal or better skill level than you are (we're not talking recreational newbies and walk-ons here. so, the guy with the example of the switching guns with a rebel doesn't work because it was recreational from what i gathered, and the question is about tournaments) equipment can make a difference. Think about it... if a gun shoots faster and more accurate, it will eliminate a person better than a gun that is less accurate and shoots less quickly. I am saying this keeping in mind that you will face players of equal or better skill in a tournament. Now, if you are the best player in the entire world, and you will never ever face another player of better skill, please email or pm me. I will pay you to be on my team.

Let's face it though, we aren't all the best players. We could be some of the best from our area, but there is no way we are the best in the world. So, sooner or later, you will face someone of equal or greater skill. In that case, if you have less or equal skill, and you don't have the equipment advantage... you probably won't win. The player is not the ONLY factor in a paintball game. It is the largest factor, but not the only factor.

Ever played with a mismatched paint/bore combination? It sucks doesn't it? You either break paint, or your balls go everywhere. What determines the paint/bore match is what you put on your gun. Better paint/bore match equals better accuracy/ efficiency/ consistency (in some cases). With those advantages, you can get better shots on people. If you can change the paint/bore match with your mind powers instead of your equipment, please tell me how you do it... and don't tell me that different tourneys don't use different paint sizes, either. I don't buy that crap.

I could go on and on about the effects of using nitrogen, and electronic triggers, and better barrels... but you all know about that, right? I won't go on and bore you with any more of a long post than I have to to prove my point. You'd all rather be playing with an Angel IR3, or an Extreme E-mag... *insert gun of choice here*. We can't just decide to accept the "feel-good philosophy" that all that will ever count is our skill. Equipment will always count in every aspect of life... no matter what your wife or girlfriend says...

[circus5]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned yet that the automag was the first semi to make it big on the tourney scene. Somebody correct me if i'm wrong but i think the mag was the first semi used by the winning team at a major national tourney (team swarm or storm or something along those lines?). There was a time (long before i started playing)that there was next to nothing on tourney feilds aside from mags and cockers. And with the lvl 10 out im expecting to see a return of mags on the tourney feilds. But aside from history the mag has the one thing that so many newer guns lack, Reliability. put any decent player behind a reliable gun and he will clean house. example, when i randomly decide to play ball and don't want to go home to grab my gear i grab a rental (prolite at my home feild) and it never slows me down.;)

[MinimagRockin']

shamu you said it with that last post: you'd have to clone yourself in order to make the gun your usings' advantage noticeable. If your playing someone else theres a 99.9% chance that one of you is better than the other and this goes for pros as well so pro A with mag and pro B with $2000 paintball gun still would come down pretty much to who is more skilled with the scales helping out mr. $2000 paintgun ever so slightly (almost negligble). Also I'm assuming that this "stock" mag should be powerfed with hpa, a decent barrel, and at least a rev. With such a setup your gun should be just as reliable as any other gun out there so now all your talking is a couple bps, at best, slower...that's not a deciding advantage for mr. $2000 gun if you ask me.

[MinimagRockin']

Upon pondering this thread futher I have come to the conclusion that every pro team must be sponsored by the company of the gun they are using (if im wrong correct me)...so if AGD could sponsor more pro teams you would see a bunch more pros using mags