Shooting the RT on run-away is bad?

[Hemlock86]

I shot the RT for the first time this weekend and I liked it alot. I makes me want to upgrade my mag with the Retro and I-frame. Well when I shot it like I normally shoot my mag, it was a quite nice. The owner of the RT told me to pull the trigger softly and I did. The RT started rattling off like it was full auto with just a slight sqeeze of the trigger! It was truly impressive. But Obsolete says thats not a good thing because it chops paint and could be considered illegal in tournaments,plus it gives the RT valve a bad name. I thought that when you find the sweet spot and the RT goes into a runaway mode, it was a good thing(and legal).

Any thoughts on this?

Peace
Eddie

[Load SM5]

While the Automag RT or RT valve is not normally illegal in tourneys runaway mode is. The field will usually make you alter your ability to do that before they'll allow it on the field. Also a hopper would have a very hard time keeping up with it for too long, a HALO or warp being possible exceptions. It feels and sounds cool but I would'nt do it on the field.

[bman1967]

Maybe runaway is bad, but I think that learning to control the RT valve is in itself an art.

I HAD a RT and learned to shoot Bursts of 3 - 5 balls. If you can make the valve work when you want / need the speed it makes for an interesting look on the opposition's face.

Especially in tourney play teamed with other shots.
Imigine, if you will, looking at the other player's bunker and anticipating them trying to come out and play while you shoot at them. If you shoot a steady 2bps rythm of shots with 3 - 5 shot bursts mixed in it really takes them out of the game. You had better be good at dumping pods, cause they are literally sitting and waiting on you to run out of paint so they can TRY and play.

[wimag]

I could never get my Retro mag to go into runaway, it had an extremely crisp and snappy pull with plenty of bounce but no sweetspot.
My RT is a whole different animal, can sweetspot it at will and burst shots. Yeah before i had level 10 it would chop when i did this for a longer string but since then not one break.

[magman007]

ok sweet spoting, runaway what ever. it is illegal. It also causes premature wear on your marker. DONT DO IT!

[wimag]

premature wear where?? RT serial # in the low 1200's. Not a single problem with it.
I keep reading about this accelerated wear but yet to hear from one RT owner who will agree with this. Seriously, if someone who has owned an Old school RT and damaged it by sweetspotting please speak up. Not this my friends gun this and friends gun that, i want to hear from at least one owner, better yet more than one seeing how this is a big problem.

If you had an RT that could sweetspot i guarantee you that it would be doing just that. Like Load stated it feels and sounds good. ANd you know how it goes "if it feels good do it"

:)

[bman1967]

I agree Wimag -

I am SO tired of hearing about "premature failure".
Did TK build it? You think he would build and sell a product that self destructs?

I came from the Pre ReTro valve days. I bought a old Skool RT. Why? Because the trigger is REACTIVE. Don't you understand what a REACTIVE TRIGGER is?

Let's all read the very well written instructions for chronographing the RT.

http://www.airgun.com/rtchrono.shtml


Pay REAL close attention to the author, TK. He tell us that The Trigger is "REACTIVE". Was TK wrong?

As I understand the history of the valve itself, the reactive trigger was a By product of designing a valve that is virtually shootdown free, unlike the AIR or 68's Valve.

Ok, so call it Runaway, Sweet-spotting or Going Reactive.
A properly tuned RT can't help but go reactive because of the inherent design. with a 4 # pull and 7 # return on the trigger, Simple logic should tell you the marker WILL go reactive.

I'll stand up -
I owned RT 00803 - Reactive as they come - never self destructed. I sold it to a kid that wanted some serious fire power... He got his wish.
:D

[Hemlock86]

How do you tune an Retro valve right? Just wondering if Im going to have to tinker with it or what. :D


peace
ed

[Jack & Coke]

FYI:

"sweet spotting" does not mean "run-away"

"run-away" does not mean "sweet spotting"

The main difference is controlled and intentional operation.

"sweet spotting" = controlled machanically assisted rapid fire.

"run-away" = uncontrolled rapid fire.

Click here to see what "run-away" looks like for real... (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49258&highlight=runaway)

I've done some tinkering with my ReTro mag recently and will post results as soon as I pick up an adjustable tank (looking at a 68/4500 Max-Flo) so I can pump 850-950 psi into my gun. If I can get it to shoot as fast and as smooth as my M98C+RT I'll post how I did it. But until then, my ReTro mag shall remain my _e_ro mag.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

One more you missed. "Reactive" does not mean "run-away". Huge difference. I have an old school RT and i've had to replace the sear once. I've had it for anywhere between 6-10 months. It's not my main gun so it also hasn't seen to much action. I can only think of a handful of times that i've actually used it. I could make it go runaway, but i couldn't control it, so i lowered the input pressure to stop it. I didn't have a warp with it so it didn't keep up on the rare times i actually attempted it in a game. If anyone hears an rt shooting that fast and consistent, they're going to notice and prevent you from using it. Therefore, it is fairly useless. It's fine if you play alot of backyard ball, but like the full auto, restricted to it.

[Hemlock86]

I'm still uncertain of the differance because obviously I dont have a Retro to play around with. Im sure I'll figure it out once I get it. I might not get the RT valve yet though, because Im moving to Belgium and I dont know if the feilds Im going to play at will have HP available. That would totally suck to go Retro then noone in Europe uses HP, lol.

Thanks for the tips and what not.

Peace
Ed

[Jack & Coke]

As far as super fast shooting goes, I've noticed this when playing with my Tippy M98C+RT:

My Tippy RT is set up so I can hit 15-18 bps very easily (click here for more info (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48044&highlight=18+bps)).

When I play during a game with this gun, I don't actually reel off super long strings of shots. I've noticed that after doing that a few times, I soon run out of paint!

I understand it may be different for back-players on a tourney team with seemingly unlimitted paint. However, as a "private group" and "rec player", I don't shoot like that (spray and pray).

Instead, I use the RT's speed to fire off no more than 2 to 4 shot bursts - very fast snap shooting! It's like shooting a double barrel gun like the palmer.

Although I still have my doubts, I can see where you may be concerned about super long and continuous RT action on a MAG.

Is it that fragile?

I wonder if Butterfinger's Uber ReTro Mag (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47925&highlight=Butterfingers) is still fine or if it's broken yet...? That thing is a beast!:eek:

[Gunga]

Methinks you guys are getting the AGD RT and the Tippmann RT confused. While Tippmann RT's are designed to go full auto, AGD RT/RT Pro/ReTro Valves are not, whether the full auto action is controllable or not.

The 'Reactive' part of RT (at least for AGD) refers to how the trigger rod pushes back against the trigger after you pull it and has nothing to do with full auto. If full auto were involed anywhere, it'd likely be named the RTFA or something like that.

Going full auto (controllable or not) with an RT/RT Pro/ReTro Valve WILL cause your sear and bolt to wear away...and as they wear, the problem will get worse. Full auto is a malfunction, not a feature.

[wimag]

Originally posted by Gunga
Methinks you guys are getting the AGD RT and the Tippmann RT confused. While Tippmann RT's are designed to go full auto, AGD RT/RT Pro/ReTro Valves are not, whether the full auto action is controllable or not.


no confusion here. well aware of the AGD RT and the Tippman RT. i wouldnt even compare the two.

[bman1967]

Yep. I'm not confused either. I fully know what is "normal operating procedure" for a RT Automag.

And Yes FA is NOT a design, but a malfunctioning marker.
REACTIVE however is Not. :)

FA= hold the trigger down and the bolt doesn't stop moving, and the paint flies.
Reactive = Apply the correct trigger pressure and after the marker fires, the trigger PUSHES your finger, the sear, etc. back into position and ready to fire the next round. If you happen to keep the same amount of pressure on the trigger the process repeats.
It's a function of the valves operation. You can't stop it from happening.
:D

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by bman1967
...Reactive = Apply the correct trigger pressure and after the marker fires, the trigger PUSHES your finger, the sear, etc. back into position and ready to fire the next round. If you happen to keep the same amount of pressure on the trigger the process repeats. It's a function of the valves operation. You can't stop it from happening...
:D

Sounds just like a Tippy RT :D

[RetroEclipseMan]

Ever since I got my inteli I can sweetspot my retro valve and haven't really noticed any where at all. I make sure that the sear and bolt are well oiled as well and don't sweetspot it every chance i get either. I think it would be safe to assume that if AGD says that using the RT or Retro Valve in run-away mode causes excessive wear then i would think that they would be right.

P.S. Wimag, what's the story with the barrel? At least let me know if you're not going to ship it so I can look for another one.

[Hemlock86]

Originally posted by bman1967


FA= hold the trigger down and the bolt doesn't stop moving, and the paint flies.
Reactive = Apply the correct trigger pressure and after the marker fires, the trigger PUSHES your finger, the sear, etc. back into position and ready to fire the next round. If you happen to keep the same amount of pressure on the trigger the process repeats.
It's a function of the valves operation. You can't stop it from happening.
:D

When I shot that RT, your definition of Reactive is what I did. I just sweet spotted it. I didnt pull the trigger all the way down and it went run-away., I didnt know that was possible. I cant wait to get the ReTro.