Why I shouldn't go to an autococker

[Badabing]

Guys I need help,I need to know why I shouldnt switch to an autococker. I know the simple things so dont waste my time with that. I need the real dirt of why I should keep my Rt Pro and try something new. I'm on the virge of it right now. Someone has to stop me.

Thanks a lot,
Badabing

[Miscue]

I am not against getting a cocker in addition to what you have. To get rid of your RT to go towards a cocker... well it's up to you. But you better get a NICE cocker, otherwise I think you're wasting your time and won't end up with something better.

What's wrong with your RT?

[Muzikman]

I'm with Miscue on this one...own both...don't pick on or the other...

[Lone Brain Cell]

I have had both, cockers are like Rotarys....When they are running sweet there is nuthin better. But fixing them = YUCK!


Honestly at the moment I have a 68 classic, hyperframe, Level 10 And I wouldnt get anything else unless it was a c&c extreme.

That is only my opinion though

[Lone Brain Cell]

Mags dont have 10 billion little parts that can stuff up at anytime. More parts = more things that can go wrong.

And most importantly Cockers arn't made by AGD!Nuf said

[mykroft]

Meh, go for it.

Cockers are sweet guns, just don't get stuck paying mad cash for milling(Unless you really want to). A stock 2K2 VF cocker, with good barrel, STO front pneumatics & Supafly bolt will perform as well as that $1200 KAPP Flame cocker, and you spent way less money.

Shoot a cocker before you buy one, it's got an unusual trigger (Even the hinges feel odd compared to a spyder or Tippmann). If you like it, enjoy, if you don't, stay with the RT.

Or you could pick up something like a BKO or Impy for the same money.

[chrisj]

Mycroft, you're close to my setup and I'm REALLY happy with just plain jane STO stuff up front, but that list needs to have a new frame on it. The stock one has a bit of(and too much) vertical movement which makes timing a chore.

Chris

[rudy]

well it would help us out more if we knew why your on the virge of switching? are you not fullfilled with your mag. do you feel like cockers are out shooting you? what exactly is it. imho going from one mechanical gun to the next is a waste of time. if you want to be satisfied try soemthign electronic

[Badabing]

Thanks for the responses guys. There is nothing wrong with my Rt. I just hear a lot of good things about cockers and I wanted to know what the real stuff about em was. My Rt and I are just fine together plus I have a warpfeed, so I wont be breaking down anytime soon like cockers do i guess. Unless there is something that would make me wanna get one of those.

Thanx

[shartley]

Hey… go with ANYTHING but an AGD Product! You see, I spent the past half an hour reading the forums and there seems to be a GREAT lack of common courtesy toward AGD and its products as of late.

AGD builds the BEST Forum on the Internet, and suddenly we not only get the dregs from other Paintball Forums, but far too often there are threads about Competing Markers and how our members want them, prefer them, etc. I may be just a little old school, but I feel there is a HUGE difference between being tolerant of other markers and their owners, and down right ignoring the fact that this is an AUTOMAG FORUM. (Gee, almost sounds like the United States these days..)

I know Tom’s idea for opening up the forums to other markers, but I said it before and I will say it again… you will NOT get more business or mag owners that way. Proof be told, since this happened, some of the membership have DITCHED their mags. And again, I am all for *not* bashing other markers, and being nice to anyone who plays the game (no matter WHAT they shoot), but when thread after thread lists things like “Top Mid Range Tourney Markers”, “What is the best”, etc. and Mags don’t even get an “honorable mention”… something is wrong. And I find it darn disrespectful.

Maybe it is just because I am sick.. but is anyone else seeing this too? I am by far NOT an AGD Zealot, and follow blindly touting the greatness of their products no matter what… but I feel that we have gone past the point of just being “other brand friendly” on AO… and it bothers me more than just a little. When I see people pushing business to competitors of AGD and ON AGD’s Forums… Call me crazy, but that is down right disrespectful.

But to answer the original question….. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I get a kick out of people who have no problems with their Markers and decide to change “just” to change….. they most often end up with problems. The RT Pro is a fantastic marker that can hold its own…. And I will leave it at that.

[shartley]

Originally posted by rudy
well it would help us out more if we knew why your on the virge of switching? are you not fullfilled with your mag. do you feel like cockers are out shooting you? what exactly is it. imho going from one mechanical gun to the next is a waste of time. if you want to be satisfied try soemthign electronic
:rolleyes:

[soilent green]

cockers are nice my brother has one my freind has one but I love the mag feel I out shot both of em so its mostly the way the gun feels to you try one extensivly before wasting your money and reliability and customer support will always be better with agd

[mykroft]

chrisj: I got lucky with my stock 45 frame, it's buttery smooth, and stays in time well (Most stock frames are not as nice as mine).

shartley: He asked for reasons why he shouldn't switch, I gave him my opinion, that he should shoot what he likes, and a couple of suggestions for guns he should try. I'm a well known AGD booster, and a fan of every AGD product except the E-Mag(I hate the trigger), I also own 2 Mags, so don't call me on boosting othe rproducts over AGD's, I don't, but I'm not an AGD Zealot (Which to an extent you most certainly are, from your post.) and do recommend certain products over AGD's, no matter where I'm posting, I'm not going to change my opinion of what the best product in a given category is just because it doesn't tow the party line.

[shartley]

Originally posted by mykroft
chrisj: I got lucky with my stock 45 frame, it's buttery smooth, and stays in time well (Most stock frames are not as nice as mine).

shartley: He asked for reasons why he shouldn't switch, I gave him my opinion, that he should shoot what he likes, and a couple of suggestions for guns he should try. I'm a well known AGD booster, and a fan of every AGD product except the E-Mag(I hate the trigger), I also own 2 Mags, so don't call me on boosting othe rproducts over AGD's, I don't, but I'm not an AGD Zealot (Which to an extent you most certainly are, from your post.) and do recommend certain products over AGD's, no matter where I'm posting, I'm not going to change my opinion of what the best product in a given category is just because it doesn't tow the party line.
WHAT?!?! Me, an AGD Zealot? You have GOT to be FRIGGIN kidding. LOL

You missed my meaning by several time zones. And I will leave it at that…… Your comment back is very disappointing. I HAD written a long explanation WHY you are so wrong, but decided NOT to post it.

My post was not a commentary on your post alone, nor what you do on AO. And party lines have nothing to do with what I stated in my post…. Think about it.
:rolleyes:

[chrisj]

A reason he shouldn't switch then? You can find new RTPs for $580. Even the cheap setup that mycroft suggests would be a WGP Outcast(550) or a modified vf cocker(550) and both of those prices are before barrels that you will NEED with a closed bolt cocker(although the JJ full tilt that comes with the STOs etc. is pretty decent).

I feel that an RTP is a better bang for the buck until you start putting serious money into an autococker.


Chris

[FrAuStY]

I agree to some extent with Shartley, about people bashing mags and sometimes members here not giving them the credit they deserve.

I also agree with Mykroft, simply put the guy was wanting info why he shouldn't get a cocker. Mykroft was speaking honestly by saying he had nothing bad to say about them. I used to not like them... I got to shoot one a few time playing the other weekend. It was kinda nice.. nothing to write home about, but it wasn't as BAD as I thought it'd be.

My input for the subject matter would be:

If you want something and can afford it.. get it. You only live once, Once you're dead you can't take it with you anyway so it REALLY doesn't matter ;) Imho they are just as good as other guns but not as dependable as your mag. Every cocker I have come across has had some problems.. wether it be shootdown after the first couple shots, crimping paint in the vert feed, or leaking from the front pneu's, they've exhibited problems just like other guns.

I can however say...in the 2 years I've had my mag.. never once has it leaked, or ehibited shootdown. It has however chopped paint (until LVL10). This goes back to the fact that everygun has its pro's and con's.. it's just a matter of how many pro's/con's you can deal with. I personally want my gun to function flawlessly everytime I play. The only gun I know of that can do this is a MAG.

Since you already own a mag.. don't go to a gun thats going to give you problems... that like going from a brand new Corvette ZO6 to a To a used Supra Turbo.. sure..they're both nice cars... they both go fast.. .but do you really want to deal with problems that can arise from the abused/used car? Don't think so. In the end... it's your money, your decision. I'll never buy another gun thats not AGD.. period.

[Badabing]

Once again THanx a lot for the responses. Shartley: I really thought about what you said, I just wanted to get opinions about cockers, I have decided to keep my rt because it is pretty much flawless. I just needed some advice from people who know about cockers. Thank you very much guys.


Badabing

[Snapps]

ah man.... after reading ur guy's replies i feel like $h*t...
see i was going to go cocker with my newly earned money (over 1k from working at a movie theater which is the best job... it is the best job!) anways i was going to go freeflow with millenium milling, nickel pnuematics, glossy blue annodizing with matching pro. 45 frame with roller sear and light pull, 68/45 or 45/45 maxflow and a richochet to top it off, now after reading ur guys *sniff* loyal agd product loyalty...it is almost making me want a emag...or xtreme emag--- but i like buttery pull--- but i like emag--- but i like backblock moving--- but i like magnets... see what trouble u have caused me!! D*mn u guys!!

[venturesomerite]

lets all play nice now... a persons going to shoot what they feel is the best. personaly i prefer cockers over mags. i respect those who dont. two of my die hard ballers who i see every day play with mags, but that doesnt stop us from being friends. dont be confused by the never ending mag/cocker fight, i dont think it will ever end. i was at one point going to get a mag, but instead didnt. but i have stayed on this forum because it is honestly THE best paintball forum i have EVER seen, so i give thanks to those who make it possible (those who buy AGD to shell the money to run this)

just try a cocker from a friend, or jsut ask some random guy if you can take a few shots. if youdont like it, stick with the mag. if you do, look into a cocker.

well, thats all i gotta say.
VENTURESOMERITE

[Lone Brain Cell]

Personal opinion. I love Mags!
And I agree with Shartley whole heartedly, You guys are on a MAG forum, Why are you here telling people that you shouldn't buy a Mag but instead buy a COCKER????? God damn it.
If you dont like a Mag don't come here. There is a big difference in saying "Try both and make your decision from there" and "Do yourself a favor and buy a cocker, they are sweet"

[FutureMagOwner]

well i have to say i LOVE my mag and wouldnt get rid of it. now that ive said that i played with my mag the first few games and it was working good so i descided to use my cocker for a few games(i just fixed the timing MYSELF noone else!!!) and its the best i have ever had it working since i bought it in april i simply love that gun now(before i endured it) i still love my mag but i have a whole new GREAT respect for my autococker now

id recommend you keep the mag and buy the autococker later if you dont like the mag however and you shot a bunch of mags and cockers to see if you like something and get that

also i believe this is called "paintball talk" and obviously if the guy wants something we should help them not say this is a MAG forum we must be biased!;)

[Marek]

I agree with FutureMagOwner (not about shooting a cocker, never tried one actually) Maybe another gun would be better suited for you. Another point is go out and understand why your gun is so good (Not because ppl tell you it is, because you feel that that is the best marker for you). And beyond that point, maybe you will find something else that you like. Maybe you will find things disapointedly horrible. My point being, try out different guns and see which one you like.

Everyone has different tastes and a marker that someone loves might be the wrong one for you. The idea that it isn't broke, don't fix it has nothing to do with it. I find it interesting just knowing about other markers and their respective upgrades, and maybe you do too. Hey, you did post it here for a reason. It doesnt hurt for your curiousity to venture outside the box. This forum is a medium for the voices of ppl to come and discuss/argue/agree/disagree on paintball topics, among other things. If you love what you have, great. If you dont, than keep looking. If your just curious, than good for you.

[shartley]

I think some folks understand what I was trying to say, and others just simply have no clue.

There is a huge difference between offering help in determining what marker may be best for someone, and saying to run right out and get a competing marker. Like it or not folks this IS a forum owned and operated by AGD. And as such to expect even the slightest bit of respect and loyalty would not be asking a whole damn lot….. would it?

There is a huge difference between stating the qualities of ALL brands of markers, and having the individual decide for themselves which marker they may want to buy, and coming right out and saying how GREAT a competing marker is and that they *should* run right out and get one. And standing up and pointing this out is NOT being bias one bit…. In fact, NOT pointing this out, and even ignoring it, shows great disrespect for AGD who provides you ALL with this medium of communication.

So you can try to twist my words into me saying something other than what I am, but the truth is still the truth. This is NOT a “general paintball forum” even if the title of the actual forum is Paintball Talk….. no more so than a General Chat on a Mustang Site/Forum would (or should be) open to blatantly recommend to folks that you should go buy a Corvette. And I like BOTH! But I know there is a time and place…..

You can still offer unbiased advice and assistance without actually PROMOTING a competing marker, Miscue did so, as well as others. And I surly hope you can all see the difference. Most everyone who has been on AO for a while knows me, and knows that I am by far NOT bias toward AGD, and I can be one of their biggest thorns…. But you will NEVER see me promote a *comparable* marker made by a competitor to other members here on the open forum. This is because I have more respect for AGD than to do so… and I also believe in their products. If I didn’t, I would not post here… PERIOD.

But that does not make me a zealot, nor does making my disapproval and concern for the blatant promoting of competing markers on AO known do so. It is an issue of respect. You would not go to a Pizza Parlor and promote another Pizza Parlor while the owner of the one you are in is sitting with you, would you? ……And while you had a big bite of HIS pizza? So by NOT doing that, would that make you a zealot? Not likely…. It would show class and respect.

[Snapps]

hey shartley,
remember one time in the chat room, there was this really really really annoying kid who said he wanted you to adopt him...well im still waiting :D

[Slapp]

I suspect that most folks posting here have more than one marker and many have or have had markers other than AGD products. I get tired of reading Mag versus Cocker topics too but if AGD felt like squelching open discussion and praise of other markers they would not have an area of the Forums dedicated to Angel Owners.

I attended one of the Tech classes Tom held. In that class he was very supportive of folks buying other markers like Angels and Cockers since so many of us have several markers anyway. He has obviously done his best (and I believe successfully) to produce a superior product, yet there is plenty of room for personal preference and open discussion. That is one of the things that makes AO great! It's not all about Mag PR here although as you should expect, there is a ton of praise and appreciation for AGD and their products.

The fact that so many folks who own Impy's, Bushie's, Angel's, Cockers and other markers come here to read up on technical issues and seek out informed opinions speaks highly of the Mag owners and AO members Tom has built loyalty with through his company's excellent products, detailed research freely shared and customer support. The fact that AO has always been open to owners of other markers opinions and posts has probably won over plenty of them who now also own an AGD product.

Keep your RT. Wanting another type of marker as well to tinker with is natural so get yourself a cocker too. That way you can tinker with the cocker all you want and rest assured that your RT will always be there running like a champ in the event your cocker develops a bit too much personality.

[Marek]

Hehehe, poor guy that started this thread. About half of this has nothing to do with his initial discussion or question.

I guess some ppl r just set in their ways, even if it is narrow minded.

[puckmaster]

Shartley, I dont agree with you in some parts of what you said.
first-

I know Tom’s idea for opening up the forums to other markers, but I said it before and I will say it again… you will NOT get more business or mag owners that way

Tom's idea for opening the forums to other markers show something about his character. He did not open this forum to make AGD "Nazis". He is not putting sublimital messages in your head that AGD is the best company of all. He is saying almost each company is good in there own way.
So if someone comes in here and askes "what is the best pump", and people are promoting Phantoms, you think it is disrespectful to AGD? Its not. But I do agree that it is disrespectful to come in here and start trashing mags or AGD products.


When I see people pushing business to competitors of AGD and ON AGD’s Forums… Call me crazy, but that is down right disrespectful.

Its not disrespectful when someone recommends a type of gun to someone who asked. Each gun is special in its own way. A Phantom would be the best pump. The Spyder might be gun for a person new to the game, a mag would be the best Mechanical semi-auto. The Impulse or BKO might be the best low priced Electro. The Bushmaster 2000 might be the best mid-priced electro. An E-mag would be the best high priced electo. but some products made by AGD don't have the needs for Pro players. E-mags dont have an LCD timer, a 3 way pivot trigger, COPS, or anyother of that crap. So an Angel might be the way to go for that stuff. That, in my opinion, is not disrespectful.


), but when thread after thread lists things like “Top Mid Range Tourney Markers”, “What is the best”, etc. and Mags don’t even get an “honorable mention”… something is wrong. And I find it darn disrespectful.

NOT TRUE. look at this thread. (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50878) It seems that Mags are called "the best bang for your buck."Im almost all of the posts. That is darn better than an honorable mention.

I do agree with you on some things you said in your post.

NOW, With his question- Stick with the Mag. It is a better Investment in the long run.

Now, I mean all this with respect to Shartley, AGD, and the different companies that i listed

[shartley]

Thank you for your response Puck… but you also missed a great deal. One of the big things you missed was how I kept saying *comparable* markers. Your examples are NOT comparable markers. Thus your argument just went the way of the big toilet. ;)

You can not use my argument WAY out of context and missing that major point (comparable) and then toss in Pumps, Low End Electos, and Spyders when they are really NOT a comparable product, or one AGD is a direct competitor for product for product. So next time please do not take what I say and break it into sound clips that do not indicate what I was truly saying, or meaning. Read my entire post and use it AS WAS WRITTEN.

And if you think Tom did not get this forum to promote HIS products you are sadly mistaken. You think he bought this forum and pays what he does to keep it running just so that people can have a place to chat? Do you think he has this forum to promote ALL paintball products? Come on, join the real world. Also there is a HUGE difference between acknowledging that each brand of marker fits a need, and actively promoting other brands of markers and actually pushing folks to buy them… and that is what you people seem to be missing.

And I think a lot of folks keep forgetting that this is NOT PBN or similar forum. It is AUTOMAGS.ORG and by name alone would indicate something in itself. Look at what is on the very first page of this site:

Automags.org is the OFFICIAL Automags Owners Group. The site is owned and operated by Airgun Designs, and provides a place where players can come together and interact. Aside from a fun place to hang out and shoot the breeze on our forum or chat room, it is also the only place where you can get your questions answered by AGD technicians. Informative articles and information are also posted to help you get the most out of your Automag, RT, E-Mag, or WarpFeed.
Again, there is a big difference between being tolerant of other markers and even admitting they are not “bad” and may indeed fill a need in the marketplace… but it has gone WAY past that lately on AO, where every time I turn around someone is telling someone to buy a competing brand of marker OTHER than AGD’s…. And again.. one that is *comparable* to an AGD marker.

Also I think your interpretation of why Tom “opened” up his forums to other brands of markers is a bit off as well. I can tell you from actually being an active member for quite some time, that folks were worried because Mags seemed to be disappearing on the playing fields. They were also concerned that AGD was not promoting their products adequately in the Paintball Publications. Tom wanted a large influx of members. Then (orchestrated or not) the Moderators began what I would call a “push” on other Paintball Forums and promoted AO to the limit.

Because of this, you HAVE to be “other brand” friendly on AO (which we pretty much always were) or you would alienate the new Non-Mag Members. But why did Tom want new Non-Mag Members? Was it so they could tout the greatness of THEIR markers? LOL No, it was so that AO could convert them into becoming Mag Owners. So YES, it IS about putting the message that AGD is the best company of all. LOL

Then you show ONE thread where Mags got top billing. WooHoo! Now go look through the forums and count how many times people tell others to rush out and buy another brands of markers. You will see what I was getting at.

I will also GREATLY disagree that AGD Markers don’t have what Pro Players need (YOUR words). That is total BS. What does a Pro Player need? Not all that crap you mentioned. And I will leave it at that.

Too many people just don’t understand… I suggest they take their time and read things more slowly.

I actually don't need to explain my posts on this matter any more. Clearly the only arguments against my points have been flawed at best, or are arguing things I simply did not say.. IN TOTAL. Don't dice my words.... or I may have to come back and NOT be so nice. ;);)

[Marek]

Automags.org is the OFFICIAL Automags Owners Group. The site is owned and operated by Airgun Designs, and provides a place where players can come together and interact. Aside from a fun place to hang out and shoot the breeze on our forum or chat room, it is also the only place where you can get your questions answered by AGD technicians. Informative articles and information are also posted to help you get the most out of your Automag, RT, E-Mag, or WarpFeed.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I dont agree with you though. Isn't this a free country?? If they think that a cocker is better than a mag, than they have the right too say that. Yes, even on the Automags forum. Why you say? Well, ppl have their opinions about things and reasons why they like something over another thing.

I read yesterday that one of the Moderators, BlackVCG would never upgrade his EMag to C&C Extreme body, because he does not like them (for reasons he mentioned). Thats his opinion, many ppl, including myself, respect his technical word and opinion. Does that mean he is against Extremes? Nopers, but just that he does not want that for his personal gun. It might not be proper, but there is no where in the rules that say plz be proper and agree with the majority of this forum. Now you want to ban ppl because they r not like u?? Thats the way it seems, since u come here and post novels about ppl r getting worse and no respect, and how back in your day u use to walk in 3 ft of snow uphill both ways. Give it a rest. If I post a thread about gettin a Timmy and want to know the thoughts of AO PPL that own Timmies, or have shot Timmys etc. for the the fact that on other places I really can't trust their word.

One thing that I have understood from being here, is that the ppl here dont play into the smoke and mirrors and lies of paintball makers. AO is known for being very technical and understanding towards how things in paintball works. And you bet, if I wanted to get another marker, I would turn here.

I can understand your point, but its wrong. Im sure your gonna post something that I dont no anything, or that i missed ur point or blah blah blah blah. I dont care. Read between all the lines you want. I think a person should have the right to say that they like a certain marker over another. I am not on this forum 24/7, but I know that when I am on here, I gonna learn the truth about things concerning paintball. That's why Im here, to learn about this sport, not to promote any kind of agenda.

[manike]

Go get a cocker. Hear me out...

That's what I did. I got what I truely believe to be the pinnacle of cockers. I have a very beautiful Spearhead Autococker with race frame in chrome and black, heavy hammer and AKA lightening delrin bolt, and it's a stunning marker. I love the back block and it's a great gun to play around with and dry fire.

It's been sat in my bag as back up since I got level 10.

And I don't mean since I got my C&C, I mean since I got level 10 in my RT. Since I got my C&C I would NOT use anything else in serious play. And I've been offered serious money to part with it but refuse.

If you don't yet have level 10 in your RT pro get it first. And then go try a cocker. I'd be suprised if you don't keep the RTP or come back to it.

By all means try a cocker, they are fun, and I do enjoy shooting mine, but when it comes to actually playing I pick up my C&C in preference or when it really counts (tournaments). I just use the cocker for fun now and then but increasingly rarely. It gets used more in my lounge than at the field... :D

I've tried everything going, and the process of trying is fun, but be careful in that you may regret it if you get rid of the mag to get the cocker. If you can have both, then power to you, otherwise make the step with care.

manike

(p.s. I didn't read most of the long posts above, anyone care to summarise? ;) )

[shartley]

How about this? You DON’T know what you are talking about… and the only reason you don’t care what I say is that you are too thick headed to understand that.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. I dont agree with you though. Isn't this a free country?? If they think that a cocker is better than a mag, than they have the right too say that. Yes, even on the Automags forum. Why you say? Well, ppl have their opinions about things and reasons why they like something over another thing.
LOL Too funny. AO is NOT A FREE FRIGGIN COUNTRY. There has been loads of posts explaining that and how you can not compare the United States Constitution with a PRIVATELY OWNED FORUM.

You also missed my whole point, but spout drivel that has NOTHING to do with what I actually said. LOL

I suggest going back and actually READING what I wrote.. and no, you don’t need to read between the lines in MY posts.. just read them.

Also talking about someone saying they would not upgrade a body style to another and comparing that to recommending a competing brand of marker is such a stretch I almost fell out of my chair.

I could go on, but it is painfully obvious that you new folks have NO idea how to argue a point successfully OR even know who you are trying to do it with. And my posts have NOTHING to do with HYPE, Smoke and mirrors, or anything else you wanted to toss in to defend your TRYING to convince someone that I was wrong in saying that folks should show a little more respect for the owners of this forum and not rush right in and tell folks to buy the products of their direct competitors. LOL Too funny.

But shame on ME right? For standing up and reminding folks this forum is OWNED and RUN by AGD and that the increasing amount of “other brand” recommending is more than a bit disrespectful. Oh, but now we want to toss in how FREE our country is, right? LOL Too damn funny. And who the heck said anything about wanting to BAN anyone? LOL

I am NOT wrong and it is obvious you DON’T understand my point. Go play, before you make yourself look more foolish than you already have.
:rolleyes:

[shartley]

Added here so folks do not think I changed my other post….

Why doesn’t everyone just DROP it if they think I am wrong? It is obvious that noone (thus far) can actually back up their arguments about WHY I am wrong with anything of value or actual relevance. It all falls back to either weak (as I stated) non-relevant arguments, or strictly opinions. Well, I posted MY opinion. Deal with it and get on with life.

Whether we agree or disagree on THIS issue is not going to make a radical change in anyone’s lives. I have a feeling if this continues that someone will bite off more than they can chew in a lifetime… and I am the wrong person to bite. And even less so on THIS issue.. I stood up FOR AGD and AO, and get treated like I was…. Sheesh… I can not even write what I feel about that because it would indeed get me banned for breaking a good deal of AO’s rules.

You would think I was some punk who just came in from PBN and started TRASHING AO and AGD products… not a long standing AO Member who was actually standing up FOR AGD and their products as well as their forum. To this I say shame on YOU. And you could not even stick to my actual points or issues.

Again… I would advise letting it drop.

[Marek]

Well, like you said, I'm thick headed (going for name calling are we, thats really childish)

I will say one thing and then let you rant and rant on your soapbox.

If I am violating this privately owned forum in free speech good ole US of A by saying something that I feel and that goes against the privately owned forum ideals and rules, then ban me. If not then you drop it, because we are not goin to agree.

[shartley]

Read your own post before saying something is “childish”. And “thick headed” is not a name, but a description. So it could not be called “Name Calling” since it is not calling anyone a name.

Example…
Description: You are thick headed.

Name Calling: You thick headed punk. (Punk would be the NAME, thick headed would be describing the TYPE of punk… or an attribute of it.)

If you look back at who showed DIRECT disrespect for a particular individual, you will see it was YOU, not I. So you are free to get off YOUR soap box now.

And your comment about Free Speech (again) and being banned (again) only shows more to the fact that you missed my entire poiont which was about respect, and what I saw happening on AO…. NOT about banning people, or OPRESSING anyone. Again, I suggest you go read it all AGAIN…. No, wait, never mind, I don’t think that will do any good because you are not after the ISSUE, but only out to ARGUE with me.

If you WERE interested about the ISSUE, you would see that you are actually talking about something I was NOT. Oh, but I bet I am now oppressing you, or making you a victim somehow. Get a grip and get on with life.
:rolleyes:

[Marek]

I vote that this thread just be closed, since its more harmful than beneficial at this point to anyone reading.

[shartley]

For ONCE I agree with you.

[manike]

How about a mod cleans out all the unneccessary argueing and leaves the thread open for the poor guy that asked the question?

manike