first semiauto?

[kinglear]

Just a thought, anybody know what the first semi-auto paintball marker was?

thanks

-jon-

[HoppysMag]

first semi or first mas produced semi... the mas produced was the VM68, the first is probibly an old ghetto autococker made by a specialist.

[manike]

Glenn Palmer is credited with the first direct feed semi auto. It was the first 'autococking gun' and called Camille.

It was stolen a year or so ago and not seen since.

manike

[hitech]

Originally posted by manike
Glenn Palmer

That is my understanding also. I saw it when he first made it. "We've" come a long way, baby. ;)

[FreshmanBob]

Do me and every palmer fan out there a favor an ask Budd Orr about that some time, see what he does :D

also ask him when he'll be using rock regulators on his stock cockers because everyone uses them anyway :D

[MagKoko]

hahaha, yeah. Palmers grav fed semi... grr, i want someone to find it... hopefully me so i can get that 2k reward... and make Glenn and Craig happy (so i can get me a new blazer + squall too)

[Trunnion]

does anyone have a picture of it? i've never seen it

[lopxtc]

I have always been under the impression that the .68 Special was the first(mass?) produced Semi.

Aaron

[HoppysMag]

.68 special? whats that? mabey it was but im almost sure the VM 68 was the first success fully mas produced semi auto...

[EnderWigginPballin]

Palmer made the first GRAVITY FED semi-auto.

Tippmann had the SMG-60, but it wasn't gravity fed.

yeah, Glenn is really cool, I emailed him the other day about a price, and he responded within 16 hours.

yeah, after sneaking around the POG forums for a while and reading every article twice, and shooting a Phoon, I'm going to have to say that my Mag will soon be my back up....

[hitech]

Okay, here is an excerpt from Glenn's web site. You can decide for yourself.

I began putting "Camille" together in early August 1988 and it became a working model in Sept. '88. However, I didn't get a couple of bugs worked out of the automation system, namely the switch (4-way valve) and timing setup until late October...That is when it went into full time service but it did not look the way it does now until June, 1989...

It is my first semi that worked. My first attempt at a semi was very early in 1988. It was based on the "blow back" concept applied to a PMI pistol. That concept was quickly abandoned by me because it would have required that it be force fed, by a spring, from the standard magazine tube on top of the gun and it also turned out to not be very reliable or consistent in operation. I wanted to have a closed bolt system so I had to figure out a way to get the bolt to stop momentarily at the rear so the balls would have time to drop into place.

In all honesty here, I got the idea for my automation system from David Craig who was Mat Brown's partner in what was then Adventure Game Supplies, now TASO. He had a really strange looking prototype of an automated Sheridan at a tournament in New York. (it incorporated a very large regulator from a oxygen tank for welding torch and a 2-way valve hooked to a 1" dia., spring return cylinder)... The second one that I built was a double barreled version in a pistol format that wasn't a conversion but built entirely from scratch... Well, three months and $900.00 later I presented Dan with HUGO (the only hurricane that I could think of that was "badder" than Camile. Some of the things I learned from building HUGO led to my deciding to go ahead and begin building the Hurricane on a limited production basis.

Do you think it could qualify as *the* first semi-auto?

I think it qualifies as the first FUNCTIONAL, GRAVITY FED semi auto. Others have told me that they were working on a semi at about the same time but I have not seen anything that worked... Tippman's SMG came out in 1987 I believe, but I never did see it as an effective piece. The joke around here, even before Camille, was that using the SMG just made you a better target and easier to find... Balistically, the .62 cal paint just couldn't cut it and they didn't go to the .68 cal semi SMG until late '89 and the .68 Special (gravity fed) didn't show up until mid-1990. About the same time as the PMI-3. Both, the 68 Special and the PMI-3 were both introduced as prototypes at the first Bay City open in Vallejo in July 1990... I am fairly certain that Camille is the oldest living Gravity Fed semi. Gravity feed is the distinction that I claim "firsts" in along with "functional". I don't claim to have invented the first semi ; my claim is to have developed the system that made semi-auto a reality to this sport. I proved that gravity feed and semi-auto was possible and certainly the paintgun of the future, when most were telling me that it wasn't possible for gravity to keep up with the gun.

[lopxtc]

Well hard copy is always the best form of proof ...

I had my first 68 Special in 92 ... and at the time I dont remember seeing many if any PMI-III's (VM-68's) in the area ..

However in 93 I say them all over the damn place in all sorts of forms ..

VM-68
VM-68EX (In which almost NO barrel plugs fit at the time. I believe they made a custom plug for it)
VM-68Intruder

single bottle, dual bottle, triple bottle, you name it ...

Aaron

[hitech]

Originally posted by lopxtc
I had my first 68 Special in 92 ... and at the time I dont remember seeing many if any PMI-III's (VM-68's) in the area ..

I'm not sure if you are using that as proof that the 68 special was the first mass produced semi. My stroker was built in '91 and there were lots of auto cockers out by then. I believe that 68 Automag had already made it's debut by then. ;)

[lopxtc]

Originally posted by hitech


I'm not sure if you are using that as proof that the 68 special was the first mass produced semi. My stroker was built in '91 and there were lots of auto cockers out by then. I believe that 68 Automag had already made it's debut by then. ;)

Oh hell no .. Believe me I was on the receiveing end of many of the early cockers and mags in 92 ... hell splatmaster had the Rapide out at that point also ... and the original Stingray was out just months later ... Anyone remember the APG article where they shot the 'ray with a .22 to see if it would still work.

Just saying that I believe the .68 special made it out a few months before the PMI-III ... although they both weighed a ton.

Several members of Total Greif went gaga over these things (PMI-III's) ... this was well before they wore all purple ...

Actually 92-93 was the first time I remember seeing the auto-response trigger also on a Mag ... people think they are blenders now (dont flame me I am not saying it myself) ... you should have seen them then before agitating (sp?) hoppers were around with this add-on.


Aaron

[Webmaster]

Camille is claimed to be the first fully funcional, gravity fed semi-auto marker.

However - there were other people at the time working on similar markers, including Bud Orr who claims they made thier autococker independently of Palmers work (I stirred up that hornets nest a few years ago and prefer to leave it between them).

Tom Kaye had a very early working prototype of the Panther (P4)? - but the design was sold and the person never produced it.

The first production markers were the Tippmann 68 special and the VM68/PMI-3. Fast on thier heels was the Line Si Promaster (what the spyder is a clone of ) and the Fast Tech F1 Illustrator, WGP Autococker, and Palmers Typhoon. I am not sure who came first exactly, but they all came out within about a year of each other.

There are also examples of old brass eagle markers dating back from around the same time - notably the Golden Eagle, and I think the other one was called the Barracuda. I

Before that there was the Crossman .50cal pistol, and the Line Si Advantage which were Double action. (gun was cocked and fired with a full trigger pull)

Of course Tippman made the SMG-60 and SMG-68 before that which were clip fed full autos.

[magman007]

wasnt the P1 out in like 1989? then the p2 after that in like 90 then P3 and p4 in 30, and the mag in 92? there was a lvl 5 mag, it was the one with the integrated breach, that thing was cool....Also Tome electro mag was cool, i think that was the first non production electro, im not quite sure tho

[paint magnet]

Someone told me that the ACI F-1's or F2's were the first successful ones but I don't know if he was right. When did the TPI Pro/Ams come out?

[lopxtc]

Pro-Ams were about 93 I believe ... the field I played at had one for rent and it was always being checked out ...

The rule at the time was only 1 semi for ever 5 players ... so 1 per side on 5/5 games and 2 per side on 10/10 games ...

Man this brings back memories of the great "Should semi's be allowed in tourneys" debate ... *L*

Aaron

[cphilip]

This is directed at Glenn...Camille was badder than Hugo. Intensity wise...

Hugo cost more to fix but was a category four and Camille was a Category Five. Camille was the second laregest one ever seen to hit the US and the only one to top it was a previous unnamed storm in the Floriday Keys 1935...Just hit a cheaper area of the US at the time is all. I was there. It's estimated that if it hit now it would break all records we have ever seen. That area is rebuilt to the hilt now with Casino's and such. We don't learn much do we?

All this is according to the Nation Weather Service!

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/Landsea/deadly/Table4.jpg

HEY YOU BROUGHT IT UP!! :D

[Tom Sparkman]

Originally posted by lopxtc
... Anyone remember the APG article where they shot the 'ray with a .22 to see if it would still work.

Aaron

Yes. Although they removed the guts of the marker and only shot the shell. Then drove over it with a truck, IIRC.

Tom

[hitech]

Originally posted by cphilip
Hugo cost more to fix... I was there.

Were you there for Hugo? Where were you? My sister in law was in Summerville when Hugo hit! Talk about Mr. Toads Wild Ride! There were times she thought she wouldn't make it. :( As I understand it was one nasty storm. It just kinda sat on Charleston and chewed.

[cphilip]

Oh sorry I was near BOTH of them as a matter of fact. I was in the upstate of SC during Hugo. Most of the people from down there were up here too. And I was in North West Florida when Camille came through.

[hitech]

As I understand it the big deal with Hugo was that it just sat on top of the Charleston area for a long time. The eye passed over the subdivision in summerville that my sister-in-law lived in (that I also lived in breifly). I have no memory of Camille. I was only 9 and lived in CA. ;)

BTW, I never knew that Camille was named after a hurricane. You would think with as many times as I have talked with him I'd know that. I never asked. I think I just assumed it was named after some girl/woman. :eek:

[battlegroup]

Tippman's .68 special was out around 89. A guy at the field I played at in orlando had one and I bought it from him in '90. I then got my Pro-am in late '91- early '92. The VM-68 came out around 90-91. The .68 special was definetly out first. The SMG .60 was a full-auto paintgun but it used strip clips. You had to load every paintball into the clips by hand. They also used .60 cal paintballs that had a shorter range. They were cool but also a pain to play with and find .60 cal paintballs.