Concerns with extreme emag

[Snooky]

I havent posted much on the forum lately but im disturbed by the thread tom posted saying that their will be only 150 extremes out this year.

I understand it takes time to make the extremes as they are all handmade but it is not feasable to have only 150 extremes out for this year.

I know these guns are gonna be the best of the best when they come out but people are not gonna wait forever to get one. The people that can afford these things are mostly people who want them for the perfomance to have an edge over competition. If they are to wait while their competition has the best and greatest while they have something less they are going to be forced to atleast get up to their lvl or not compete.

The other thing i see is a big problem is the hype on a product can only last so long before no one cares anymore. AGD has been talking about these things and dealers have been pre-ordering them forever. People can only be excited about something for so long before the move onto something else. Why wouldn't you have enough to supply the demand if you were gonna hype it.

I have personally shot a extreme and this was pre lvl 10 and the thing friggin'g ripped. but I and probally most people arent gonna wait a year when great technology like the angel and other electronic guns are out now.

Its like if you were to want to buy a racecar. Now if the model of the car you want isn't out yet you have to have something to drive and will have to settle for the next best thing. Of course you could buy a busted up dodge but its not gonna compete with other things out their for that year so you will end up having a huge disadvantage where as if you have the best car avail at the time you can compete and well.

Its the same thing with other elctros and the extreme.

Another probelem i see is who is gonna buy a gun for 1000+ they have never shot. If there is only 150 of them out on the field not many people are gonna get a chance to try it out and see that it is worth the wait. So then by the time the people do get a chance to see that it is a great gun there will be something else that is the new thing to go out and get and the extreme will be left in the dust like most people see mags now.

Hey maybe im dead wrong and the people will not follow the crowd and will wait for the extremes. Maybe by making people wait they will be even more excited to get their hands on one.

Or maybe not.

Maybe the people that do have them are gonna sell them on ebay for 2k because the demand is so high for them that people will pay that much for them. Maybe people will get irritated and say the heck with the extreme im gonna get me something that can compete now.

I highly suggest that if agd wants to make this a success they start getting more people to get more of these things together asap so that they can fulfill the demand at its peak.

I see this gun as AGD's future and with a failure on here to get guns to people when demand is at its peak i believe it wont be nearly as big as wanted and once again AGD will be looked upon as a company of the past. I don't know about the rest of you but its knida sad the way most people look at mag when in reality they are very reliable and can come close to competing with stuff out there today even though how old they are.

I sold my mag to buy an angel and as much as i love the extreme the angel is keeping up as far as im concerned. Maybe in the future ill sell the angel when there is an extreme there.

I still love mags and support AGD and Tom but I would really like to see this problem looked at.

[paintslinger]

well 150 emags this year isn't that bad...i mean theres only like 4 months left and they are winter months where playing decreases. so when agd starts pumping out the xtremes in jan that'll be great for the start of tourney season...and it also gives broke guys like myself more time to save money so he can get his hands on one.

[aaron_mag]

They also have to produce all the other stuff they make. They can't just produce extremes and forget the rest.

I disagree with you. One of the great things about AGD is that they really want to make sure that a product is good before the sell it. Not just slap it together and sell them as quickly as possible. I have a JT Excellerator 4.0 as a loaner/family marker. The thing was cheap, a steal on Ebay. I couldn't resist. It was obvious, however, the thing had been slapped together. I had to make some adjustments to it to be able to tune the velocity. The thing is still kind of quirky.

Now lets take Level 10. The darn thing WORKED. You think about the complexity of a mod to fit all AGD markers and consider that it worked for me so easily it is just amazing. It was obvious they had put time and thought into it.

My point is that it takes time to do things right. It would not serve AGD to produce a bunch of Extremes and have everyone complaining that they were full of bugs and sucked!! They are already sold out of the first production run. The fact that people will pay over $1000 for a marker they have never shot has already been proven. They are willing to trust that AGD will stand behind their product.

Whew. Too long winded. Sorry.

[P4ULuk]

Who will pay 1000+ for a marker they've never seen? How about all the pre-ordered IR3's not to mention CLASS,Mamba etc....
Also I did just that, I'd never even held an Emag b4 let alone shoot one!

Paul
:D

[Jack & Coke]

All mag owners and open-minded non-mag owners know what a great product AGD can produce...

But I'll be honest with you. AGD has a bad image out there.

9 out of 10 comments or looks I get whenever I bust out my mag in a paintball store are anti-mag. Whether it's "blender", "no distance", "no accuracy", "too heavy", "too high pressure", "no consistancy", etc. I hear it all. Even after I teach them about my lvl 10 and demonstrate to them my 18-20+ bps sweetspotting ReTro, I still see heads shaking left to right with comments like, "...I don't know... I still would get an Angel or a Cocker over a MAG. Besides, you never see them in tournaments anyways..."

See what we have to deal with?

Momentum, myths, and hype are very powerful factors in todays paintball world. Timing is everything.

If AGD fails to deliver, they will miss the boat, and lose a lot of potential business. Only the faithfull and open-minded like us will understand and appreciate the high degree of performance and engineering that exists in a mag product... especially the XMAG!

Snooky has a good point.

Look at Bob Long. The hype and sneak peeks of the GZ Timmy came out last year. Shorty after, they began producing like crazy. They've successfully caught their wave of hype and fame and rode it into the minds of everyone this last year because they were able to deliver a great product. If Bob only released 150 new Timmies this last year, do you think "Intimidator" would be mentioned as much as "Angel" or "Cocker"?

I dig all my guns - My GZ is sweet and kicks butt! My M98RT is really really fun... But my MAG is special to my heart, and I wish more people would be able to appreciate how well the XMAG is engineered and will perform.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to do that when there's no product available.:(

Like the Dodgers and Lakers (or insert your fav team here), I always root for AGD to do well... win or lose.

[TEN]

At Campaign Cup we could see the extreme in action, many teams including Hardcore (Reffing field 7) asked to try it.
(Hardcore won the overall AM division in the Millennium Series and are going PRO next year).

And Bob Long..... Dang is he good with the squeege or what? In one game it never left his hand. It was like looking at a guy using a frontloading marker. Now I never looked at him all the time but everytime I did he was working with the squeege.

[cphilip]

Snooky, I too am a bit concerned with Product availability at the most critical point like this. I too have worried about the opportunity lost and ability for AGD to take advantage before the fever subsided. And I would even bet money on it that Tom is too. But it seems nothing can be done about it. It's a bit too big a task to get more than 150 of them done it seems for a small company. But yes...I too am concerned.

[luke]

Another probelem i see is who is gonna buy a gun for 1000+ they have never shot.

People will buy them, fact is the 150 that are being made are already sold out.


I understand it takes time to make the extremes as they are all handmade but it is not feasable to have only 150 extremes out for this year


We have a 2nd batch in progress now but it takes 3 months to cycle the parts through

As you can see Tom is working on the second batch now, that's not too bad. 150 might not sound like much to you, think about the "grip" of cash Tom has to invest in 150 guns, it's a lot more that you might think. Also, don't you think if it were possible to "produce" more he would?

[cphilip]

Originally posted by luke
...Also, don't you think if it were possible to "produce" more he would?

You can bet your sweet behind he would! :D

[shartley]

I am very glad others are seeing the problem with having a fantastic product but at such low numbers that it forces people to go out and buy their “second choice”. And let’s face it, if they purchase another comparable marker, do you think they will then run out and get their first choice if it suddenly became available? Not likely for the majority of people. After all, it is quite an investment and most people don’t have the funds to make such an investment at the drop of a hat.

As for people’s comments about Mags.. I too have heard these comments (blender, gas hog, etc.) but honestly only a few times. And actually not in a while either. When I bring my RTP to a shop, or field, it is now always met with “That is one sweet setup you have there.” Or “How did you get that Flatline?!?” Or “I want him on MY team!” ;)

And then when people see it shoot, they are simply on the road to pure love… so I then let them shoot it and it is over… it IS love. ;)

On the subject of what it costs to produce these markers…. To me that is NOT an issue, sorry. If you have a product, and it is selling like hotcakes, you have no other option than to GET the funds needed to keep making more. I will not get into all the ways to GET the funds to keep up with demand, but anyone who has run a successful business knows there are ways, and to NOT secure those funds is a huge mistake. Anything less is an excuse that does not hold water in my book.

[shartley]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
They also have to produce all the other stuff they make. They can't just produce extremes and forget the rest.

I disagree with you. One of the great things about AGD is that they really want to make sure that a product is good before the sell it. Not just slap it together and sell them as quickly as possible. I have a JT Excellerator 4.0 as a loaner/family marker. The thing was cheap, a steal on Ebay. I couldn't resist. It was obvious, however, the thing had been slapped together. I had to make some adjustments to it to be able to tune the velocity. The thing is still kind of quirky.

Now lets take Level 10. The darn thing WORKED. You think about the complexity of a mod to fit all AGD markers and consider that it worked for me so easily it is just amazing. It was obvious they had put time and thought into it.

My point is that it takes time to do things right. It would not serve AGD to produce a bunch of Extremes and have everyone complaining that they were full of bugs and sucked!! They are already sold out of the first production run. The fact that people will pay over $1000 for a marker they have never shot has already been proven. They are willing to trust that AGD will stand behind their product.

Whew. Too long winded. Sorry.
Nice thought, and it is also nice to see you backing AGD so well… but it is a little off base.

You point out products that DID work (thus far), but folks could also point out products that were rushed into production, and that did NOT work as planned (super *cough* bolt). This issue really, to me, has nothing to do with wanting to make things right, it has to do with them setting a timeline and now they have too few of them to keep up with demand.

You are correct though about them not being able to forget about the other products they make. It is important to remember that their products are a team, and no ONE product is their single money maker and makes or breaks the company. I think AGD however has, to an extent, forgotten about their other products though… when was the last time you saw anything BUT their latest product or upgrade pushed by AGD?

Don’t forget what got you where you are today, don’t overlook other great and already proven products for the sake of pumping up a new product that you can’t even keep up with demand for. AGD should keep better perspective on things. Yes, get your name out for new stuff… but don’t forget about all the other products that helped bring in the funds to MAKE the new ones. ;)

I for one would like to see more RT Pros out on the field. You know, I have seen plenty of E-Mags, but few RTPs out there. I know they HAVE to be there (I also know some AO members in my neck of the woods own them too) but just saying that I have not SEEN them when playing at organized fields.

[MagDog68]

Originally posted by shartley
I for one would like to see more RT Pros out on the field. You know, I have seen plenty of E-Mags, but few RTPs out there. I know they HAVE to be there (I also know some AO members in my neck of the woods own them too) but just saying that I have not SEEN them when playing at organized fields.

The RTP is like the middle child - not the old reliable or the new shiney marker. Think about it, most people would go the few extra hundred for the E-Mag or they will just upgrade their 68Automags. You can pick up a used emag for the cost of a new RTP for goodness sake!

I'm not saying that the gun is dead, I just don't see the market for that gun surviving too much longer. People just don't want a high level mechanical gun anymore unless it says "cocker" after the "auto" part. Maybe the new proto bodies will make it a more attractive buy.

~Fred

PS Oh yeah - I thought the 150 production number was a bit odd too. I mean the people buying these things are most likely AGD'aholics anyway. We need fresh blood to get their hands on these guns - hence we need more than a paltry 150!

[cphilip]

I sure do...its my "rainy day" marker.

They certainly sell enough cockers. And with the upgrades planned for it with aluminum bodies there is your head to head competion. It certainly puts any of them to shame.

[luke]

:)
shartley,
I partially agree with you in terms of production, after all it's the business I've been in for the past 12 years, I understand it well and frankly I'm good at it. But, it's Tom's busness not ours.

There are always way's to produce more, whether it's from reorganizing the way you are currently doing things, investing money in better equipment, or hiring more people. One thing to keep in mind is that he uses outside "contractors (as far as I know) to build/ manufacture the individual peace's, so your partially at the mercy of them. Sure there are ways around those problems, but for what ever reason(s) Tom has chosen a number for production he feels is feasible.

As far as the money is concerned, (if it is a concern, perhaps it was a little presumptuous on my part) that really is a little to personal to say much about. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the best way to spend or invest their money, whether it's business or personal. So, too say someone should go deeper than what they are comfortable doing isn't right.

Boy I hope I didn't pick a fight with shartley, if so I concede right now. (i don't type very fast.) ;)

[luke]

shartley,
You/aaron_mag made a great point, in that they have more going one than just this one product. Perhaps it's time to expand. After all, if you want to be a world leader you will need a large support group.

[shartley]

Originally posted by MagDog68


The RTP is like the middle child - not the old reliable or the new shiney marker. Think about it, most people would go the few extra hundred for the E-Mag or they will just upgrade their Automag68s. You can pick up a used emag for the cost of a new RTP for goodness sake!

I'm not saying that the gun is dead, I just don't see the market for that gun surviving too much longer. People just don't want a high level mechanical gun anymore unless it says "cocker" after the "auto" part. Maybe the new proto bodies will make it a more attractive buy.

~Fred
And you just proved my point! :D Thanks. ;)

What is wrong with the RTP? Nothing. But you just showed how “perception” can kill a product… and people buy what they THINK is a good deal. And sorry to say, you can upgrade all you want, but the RTP is the goal for Mechanicals… all the upgrades are doing is trying to GET to where the RTP is right out of the box.

No market for them? Bah.. horse radish. And even if there wasn’t, the key to good marketing is MAKING the market for them.

And as for saving the few extra hundred and getting an E-Mag.. Bah again. I don’t know about who YOU hang around with, but a few hundred dollars is a big thing for most people. In fact I have seen people buy complete setups for Spyders so they and their kids can play for the same overall price as buying ONE higher priced marker… so money IS an issue for folks out there, believe it or not.

And if you can get the reliability, speed, and reputation of AGD a few hundred less with an RTP and still lay major paint…. See my point? AGD is just not PUSHING the RTP… it is that simple. And now people want to make excuses like there is no market for them? Then why has everyone I know who has USED an RTP love them so much?

Tell you what, if Tom wanted to ditch that product, send them MY way. I would take 2 or three more (heck I would take 100 more!) and outfit my whole family with them and make a REAL statement about how good the marker is. And like you said, if they had more bodies for them….. Cockers had better run for the hills… LOL (And if Tom dropped some of the price off at the same time, JUST to get a bunch out on the market…. Ahhhhhhh)

The ONLY reason RTPs are not the top mechanical marker on the market is simply because it is not pushed…. Not any of the other reasons shown…. Except one that has NOT been mentioned… you can get a cheap electro for virtually nothing now days, so trying to convince someone to pay 3 times as much for a manual marker is a hard sell at times. The only way to do so, is to put them head to head…. And I will stand behind the RTP. ;)

[shartley]

Originally posted by luke
:)
shartley,
I partially agree with you in terms of production, after all it's the business I've been in for the past 12 years, I understand it well and frankly I'm good at it. But, it's Tom's busness not ours.

There are always way's to produce more, whether it's from reorganizing the way you are currently doing things, investing money in better equipment, or hiring more people. One thing to keep in mind is that he uses outside "contractors (as far as I know) to build/ manufacture the individual peace's, so your partially at the mercy of them. Sure there are ways around those problems, but for what ever reason(s) Tom has chosen a number for production he feels is feasible.

As far as the money is concerned, (if it is a concern, perhaps it was a little presumptuous on my part) that really is a little to personal to say much about. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the best way to spend or invest their money, whether it's business or personal. So, too say someone should go deeper than what they are comfortable doing isn't right.

Boy I hope I didn't pick a fight with shartley, if so I concede right now. (i don't type very fast.) ;)
LOL No, you did not pick a fight with me. I am not in disagreement with you… not at all.

My post was just addressing simple issues (and eluded to more complex ones.. that you expanded upon). I was just tired of seeing excuses being tossed around for low production numbers that just did not make sense. As you put it, there are many ways to get production up. There are also other factors to figure in, and none of which we can do without being on the inside.

I was not trying to say what Tom should or should not do, just showing that if the WANT was there, there are ways to get things done… and I was more saying this to the general membership, not Tom. ;) But, I would never shy away from telling Tom what I think he should do.. after all, that is part of why he has this forum, to hear from his customer base and use what he hears (in conjunction with information we don’t have) to form plans of action for his company.

I appreciate your comments, and again, they were not wrong nor am I in disagreement.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by shartley

...And like you said, if they had more bodies for them….. Cockers had better run for the hills…


No, I said that...well was implying that...well...You know what I mean...:D

[shartley]

HeeHee you both said it. :D I was typing when you posted yours Phil. ;)
From him:

Maybe the new proto bodies will make it a more attractive buy.
From you:

They certainly sell enough cockers. And with the upgrades planned for it with aluminum bodies there is your head to head competion. It certainly puts any of them to shame.
From ME:

...And like you said, if they had more bodies for them….. Cockers had better run for the hills…
It seems we are in AGREEMENT! :D:D:D ;)

[cphilip]

Heck!!!! I am locking this one right now and moving it to Historic!!!! What are the odds of this? :eek:


(note to self buy lottery tickets on way home) :D

[shartley]

:p

[Phil]

I started with a RTP and now shoot an E-Mag. I love AGD products. Tom's post that sparked this thread irritated me to high heaven and illustrates one of the things that frustrates me a great deal about AGD. They appear to their customers to have a complete lack of business sense. What would cause a company to research and hype an awesome new product and then produce so small an ammount that they run out before the production run is complete is beyond me. One of the basics of business is DO NOT RUN OUT OF PRODUCT. Customers don't care about the reasons why you ran out, they just feel let down. I am not saying this to be mean, I just needed to express my frustrations. In many ways AGD is a great company. They just need to get their heads out of their -BLEEP- with reguards to marketing and production. I am not unmindful of the fact that there are economic pressures on small companies. If you only had the capital to produce 150 then it would have been wise to release them in whats called a Soft Sell and save your advertising for your full production run.

Loyal but Frustrated AGD Customer
Phil

[ben_JD]

A little off-topic, but I don't think that the general paintball world has been aware of the "hoop-la" surrounding the Extreme as we are, here in our AO world. It seems that every time I talk about this marker, most of the people (who haven't heard my rant before) haven't even heard more than rumors about a new E-Mag.

If what I said is true, there really won't be a backlash, because there really isn't that much to backlash against. The Extreme will start showing up at rec. fields in early-mid 2003 and then the excitement will start. By then, hopefully, AGD will be ramped up to handle the demand.

On the other hand, I really wish that AGD would get these out the door more rather than less quickly. I just don't know that the damage for trickling out these first guns will be as great as some of you fear; though I do share your general impatience.

[cphilip]

Thats an interesting point of view Ben...I guess to some degree you may be right. We do kind of live in a fish bowl here. Hope you are right.

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip
Thats an interesting point of view Ben...I guess to some degree you may be right. We do kind of live in a fish bowl here. Hope you are right.
hmmmm I thought something was fishy about AO……

(sorry, AGAIN I could not resist! :D)

[cphilip]

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/fishie.gif

[aaron_mag]

This is an interesting debate and I think that alot of people are bringing up some good points. As far as AGD pressing the Extreme and forgeting about their other products I don't feel that way. I was so happy that the Level 10 could make my automag better and not force me to buy a new marker to handle chopping issues. Then there was the retrovalve which was another great upgrade. When the protobodies come out I really look forward to having a low rise body for my mag (hopefully with the integrated sight rail). I don't feel abandoned at all......

As for the Extreme yes there has been hype and it is pretty and I would like one but then comes the question of priority. I'm sure Shartley and the rest of the adults out there would agree that it isn't that you can't afford one but the question of what is the best use of money. Should I make an extra payment on the house/put in it in the college fund for the kids OR buy a shiny new toy for myself? Thats why I'm glad that AGD is also putting some focus on upgrades so that the rec players out here can have the joy of fondling a new product but not going to extreme (pun intended).

Hmmmmmm. Now that I wrote this I'm not sure if I am agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of you out there. Must be Alzheimer's......:D

[Dragoon]

I think Ben is going in the right direction.

We have a unique position here at AO. The owner of the company that produces the markers we like has opened a window into the process of designing new products. For this Tom gets a lot of valuable feedback. While we get a sneak preview of whats going to be available. Because of this, we as a whole, seem to be impatient. As soon as we see a good idea or a prototype we want it right away.

If it wern't for AO I'd have no idea that there is an Extreme and I wouldn't be bouncing off the walls waiting for one.

So what I'm trying to say is that we have to keep in mind where we are in the new product development stage.

Well that's if from me. Sorry if this comes off preachy.

Douglas.

[battlegroup]

As most o fyou have said, it would be great If AGD could get more out quicker. However, I have seen firsthand that most players outside of AO do not know much about the Extreme. I went to my local store last week looking for some misc. equipment and mentioned the extreme. Not a single person in the store knew what I was talking about. Now I'm in a small town but we have several paintball fields, it seems the news may not be out all over. I usually play a lot of the bigger games and I will defietly be showing my extreme off at these places.
I think that the die hard Mag fans (which is just about everyone that has a mag) will wait for the gun. The rest of the world will learn as the number of extremes grows. Not because it's the best way to do it, but because it's the best AGD can do right now and still live up to it's name. An angel owner, or 'cocker owner who loves their gun, is not going to run out and buy a mag they have never shot because of hype. Only people who are loyal to AGD will do that. I personally have been a mag owner for 6 years and have owned 3 other guns in that time period as well and I certainly didn't hesitate to drop the cash for this marker.
Don't worry about the numbers. AGD will put forth the best product as fast as they can. As the kinks in production get worked out they will come faster. Will supply ever reach demand? Who knows, but I already preordered mine and kind of like the fact I will have a marker of such high quality that very few others do.

just my 2 cents

[hitech]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
As far as AGD...forgetting about their other products I don't feel that way. I was so happy that the Level 10 could make my automag better and not force me to buy a new marker to handle chopping issues. Then there was the ReTro valve which was another great upgrade. When the proto-bodies come out...I don't feel abandoned at all...


That would be my feeling also. I remember Tom talking about the level 10 upgrade at the NPPL tournament in LA. It was much different then. It would have been very expensive to retro fit an existing marker. Tom actually told me that since I wasn't having problems with barrel breaks now that it wasn't worth it. I sure that the look of disappointment on my face is what caused him to rethink level 10. ;)

The ReTro valve (with the go ReTro program) allowed pre Automag RT owners a chance to upgrade without replacing their entire marker.

And let's not forget the Intelliframe. It also fits existing markers.

It seems to me that the loyal customer base has NOT been forgotten. And that is the best reason to be a loyal customer. :D

[Pand0ra]

Sorry but I've to disagree with all of you :)
Your point of view is correct, but only on the short term.

For almost all the markers it takes 2 years before they really start to be seen on the fields.
It's only this year, with the new version of the Timmy, that you see them often on the fields. And the first version was released two years ago, if I remember well.

The best thing to do is start slowly to produce, then increase the production over the year.
However, you've to make sure all your markers are reliable, otherwise poeples will start to say bad things about it.

That's at least what I think.

@++

[Shirow]

Yep, the fact that all their new upgrades always fit the entire family of AGD markers is proof to me that good things are worth waiting for. I can't think of a single AGD produced upgrade or marker that wasn't 100% fantastic - look at a bunch of the upgrades for other markers, and try and make that statement.

AGD is probably the only company that I could feel confident purchasing something from without even knowing what it does, but being sure that it's going to be an awesome piece of equipment once I figure it out ;)

[banzaimf]

I'm going to have to say that outside of the AO faithful, there is no real hype. There has been a tickling, a fanciful glance of that which is to come, but no hype. 150 by the end of the year starts whetting the appetites of the unwashed heathen masses. No real hype even then though. Hype will be achieved in a year or so, when there are enough out there that people can walk into their local store and see one on the wall. Until then, you have a minor percentage of the population "in the know".

just my thoughts though.

[AGD]

You guys are WAY overestimating the number of 1000 dollar markers sold every month. Remember, it took 6-7 months to sell 40 SFL's. I have half a million dollars in Emag parts right now sitting in inventory, it is not a smart business decision to spend another half mill so we don't get into back order. Besides that you guys will want something different in the next 6 months anyway.

AGD

[cphilip]

Originally posted by AGD
... Besides that you guys will want something different in the next 6 months anyway.

AGD


OUCH!!!! he he he he...true...but in the mean time...:D

[shartley]

HeeHee... but that is what keeps things interesting! :D:D:D

[Vanced]

LOL

AND then Tom layeth the smacketh down ...

As Tom so polietly reminds us that they are his markers before they will ever by ours...

Folks just got to remember, it is how we have fun on a weekend, but how he puts food on the table, and needs to do it economically as possible... But from what I know of people, someone will always complain about something...

Vanced

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Vanced

But from what I know of people, someone will always complain about something...

Vanced

AMEN!!!

Now where's my darn Extreme!!!!:p

[AGD]

Just in case you don't think we are producing I just went back and took a picture of the workbenches.....

AGD

[AGD]

The other bench with more stuff.

[covadsucks]

Talk about kid in a candy shop!!! Nice shop Tom.

It's one thing to complain that the first 150 are completely spoken for, but how many people out there actually have the cash to fork over for the new Extreme at this very moment? I look in the Sale Threads and I see people asking for a deal on a ten dollar sear assembly. Then I read threads by the very same people complaining about the lack of availability of the Extreme. Some people really need to grow up and smell what they're shoveling.

Tom keep up the good work and when you can, let's see some more "Classic Emag Bodies" with a no-rise vert feed.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by AGD
Just in case you don't think we are producing I just went back and took a picture of the workbenches.....
AGD

Actually what we want to know is why you are on this board and not slaving away making Extremes for us! You better not have taken a lunch:D :D

ROFL.....wait a second I better get back to work too so I can eventually buy one of those things.......

;)

[Schnitzel]

i would totally love to work at that place(well, at least until i got bored, which would take a while). too bad i live in CA. It would be fun to tour the place.

[Snooky]

1st off: I finally agreed with shartley on a subject so for that i deserve atleast a cookie.

2nd and more importantly:

I noticed alot of you guys are saying people outside of ao don't know alot about the extreme if anything. This would lead me to believe even more people outside of ao are gonna goto a different marker if they don't even know it exists. Ignorance is bliss.

I know once these things get out to the general public and start showing up on fields people are gonna love um to pieces but lets get um out there before like tom said we want something new in 6 months.

I guess there isn't a whole lot to do in the situation if money is the issue however this i veiw as AGD's doorway to future. Once AGD's products arent looked at as gas hogs, blenders ect. in people's minds they'll be able to feed the market whatever they want and become a big time company in the industry making other companies having to have better standards of quality and performance making it better for all of us. I know the people that know AGD makes quality products and always have will want the extreme but the greatness of this has to be proved to the general public.

As I said in my first I sold the mag for an angel. Loved the mag and love AGD products still. However as i think Shartley mentioned how many of these people that buy now are gonna sell of thier gun and buy these when they are out? At this current moment i don't think it would be a good idea to sell the angel for around 700-800 and put it towards the extreme just because the angel is very competable as it is and i would lose a part of my investment in doing so.

I really did love shooting your blue extreme at the factory Tom and i do see myself having one of these instead of the angel eventually.

[pito189]

I stated this same concern about 3 or 4 weeks ago I believe.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Vanced
it is how we have fun on a weekend, but how he puts food on the table

This is so true.....we are the armchair athletes debating whether Jordan should or should not have come out of retirement. I think it is safe to say that almost all of us don't know anything about getting a marker through research and development through manufacture. That said......


Originally posted by Snooky
big time company in the industry making other companies having to have better standards of quality and performance making it better for all of us.

I thought this was already the case. We've received alot of innovation from one company. Tom's comment about six months appears like an overestimate. Level 10 just came out and already we are saying, "AGD is just sitting on these Extremes and relaxing. They need to start producing, coming out with new products, etc." To think that just a little while ago we were debating whether Tom should be accepted into sainthood for coming out with the Level 10 :D

[SSMercury]

I could feasibly order an Extreme at this time. GOing to wait until next year though (not like I've a choice anyways). But I was thinking about waiting and getting the 2nd generation of SFL, if I like it's milling. I don't like the CnC Extreme design particularly. It looks too much like a trophy or something, the way it flows.

Anyways, Tom, what are those thingies in the first picture?

EDIT- Half a MILLION DOLLARS in "PARTS"? WOOW.

[Shirow]

I just got done upgrading my mag, so I won't be getting one for quite a while :) Nice to see they're being made though. I think it's kinda cool to limit the supply for a while - makes them a lot more desirable to the gottahaveits out there ;)

[Dayspring]

I like the fact that you could by the lowest model marker that AGD designs, and through the course of the year, bring it up to th RT Pro standard. How many companies can produce this type of upgrade path and this level of quality & service?

I believe that Tom has a master plan on how the Extreme will be rolled out. You can't seriously think that he'd come up with a new marker with all the cool features people have been asking for and just sit on it. WRONG! He's a smart guy! We should trust in that. Yes, the 150 limit kinda sucks, but with a marker of this complexity level being created and only been out since this summer, it's an accomplishment to get this far.

We also have to look at the economics of the situation. Supply and Demand. When the PS2 came out, there was a HUGE demand for them. Supply was so limited that people were paying through the nose for them. I believe the same will happen here. There is already a buzz about the new Extremes. (Just look at the big events- IAO, Shatnerball, World Cup) With a little more push from AGD, they can become "legendary" and people will want them more than they do now. Demand will be so high, that Tom will HAVE to ramp up production. And in the end, we'll all be happy. :D

To conclude- We complain that nobody outside of AO knows about the Extreme. Well, who does that fall on? AGD partly, but also on us! Word of mouth is the BEST marketing tool around. Let the rental guys at the field shoot your Emag. Show them how the Warp Feed works. Stick your finger into your Level 10 equipped marker. (Did this at Skirmish's World Record Game and drew a crowd, including the owner) WE have to be the marketing force behind AGD. We sing the praises to Tom here on the boards. But that's singing to the choir. We need to yell from the mountaintops and from the valleys below- AGD Rules because QUALITY ALWAYS SHOOTS STRAIGHT!!!

[aaron_mag]

Like what Dayspring had to say except one thing.......sorry I'm not sticking my finger in there:D

Yeah I know it has been demonstrated to be safe but it would be just like me to have reassembled level 10 incorrectly that day. Consumer loyalty only goes so far and risking appendages is my limit:) .

Besides I wouldn't want to listen to my mommy say, "If Tom Kaye jumped off a bridge........."

:D

[pito189]

Originally posted by Dayspring
With a little more push from AGD, they can become "legendary" and people will want them more than they do now. Demand will be so high, that Tom will HAVE to ramp up production. And in the end, we'll all be happy. :D

To conclude- We complain that nobody outside of AO knows about the Extreme. Well, who does that fall on? AGD partly... AGD Rules because QUALITY ALWAYS SHOOTS STRAIGHT!!!

I have been thinking of this lately. What is the best way to get your name out there. Get a pro team using your products and sponsored by you. Thats how kingman did it, they went out an bought Bad Company out.

Why could AGD not do this? Aftershock for example. Manny already plays for them and shoots an E-Mag, given it is shocktech, but all the same. If AGD were to go buy out a team, and have them shoot only AGD guns, then this would get AGD's name out to the nation, heck even to the world.

No fancy closing remark, you guys just tell me what you think about that????

[davidb]

Or they could have the best of both worlds and use the SFL E-Mag, supporting both Shocktech and AGD. It shouldn't be that hard to get them to use their own top-end marker...

[FrAuStY]

Well since everyone else had something to say... and I just sat and read the whole post with a devilish grin on my face, I guess I should throw my two cents in as well.

First... as for the fishbowl, yes...I have noticed that we here on AO are very privvy to AGD related products, hell we got to test the LVL10 kit before anyone else! But thats the best part. We know about this fantastic marker that will be upon the playing world soon. I don't know about you..but I actuually like the whole "mag" myth. I mean... would you rather own an extreme and be up against 3 cockers, and two angels, or 3 extreme emags and two angels? Hell may even be 5 extremes if we're not careful. lol.

Now from the business standpoint I'm sure Tom wants to see the last scenario ;) But from my playing standpoint.. I want to be King... I want to be the one with the only extreme on the field. So I can hear people complain and moan that it shoots too fast.. or they can't even play against a marker like that lol. Thats what I want.. if it were up to me..only I would have an extreme. I'd be king.. king of the hill if you will ;)

[Brak]

your right. they arent meeting demand with their supply. but someone else had a point. there are only a few months left this year and as long as they pump out some more emags in time for the holiday season and eventually spring they will be set

[freek133]

AGD will still be making regular emags right?

Just looking out for the po boys who dont mind lugging around the extra weight for a while;)

[RetroEclipseMan]

I gotta agree with Frosty on this one. I mean I would like to see more mags out there at my local field but it is kinda cool to be different from everyone else and know that even though everyone has an angel or cocker that my mag can still compete with them and most likely when I get an extreme next summer I will be the only one at the field with one.

It is frustrating to know that it will take till next year before there will be more but like it was already said there are only a few more months left in the year and it getting close to winter so the tourny season is winding down so ther isn't much to worry about. The thing that kinda makes me a bit frustrated is that now that I want to order lvl 10 is that I probably won't be able to get it for another couple weeks due to backorder but I guess I'll just have to play on and not worry about it and keep the squeegie handy.

[riooso]

I worked the system and had some relatives overseas buy me 2 markers in Europe. Standard Black. I do not know the market for standard Xtremes but I routinely loan out mine so that people can use it during woods ball. I am creating a market by letting them use it and they love
the Xtreme! There a lot of players out there who want a marker that is more durable than the C&C and would love to get their hands on one of the standard models. Just an idea, if the standards came out they could be upgraded if someone wanted a C&C or an Aluminum valve. If I want the C&C I will buy the body down the road and I already have a spare valve so getting my hands on an Aluminum version is no big deal.

Just a thought,
R

[Sledgehammer]

Hehe, I already got mine :D in May :p

And when I let people shoot it they all love it. But then, the Xtreme is not (yet) oficially available in Germany (like the standard E-Mag) for the old infamous reason...

Which BTW served Tom pretty well in the old days, since Automags had a huge head start over here, when it took forever to legalize the cocker. So every tourney team was shooting Mags (I'm talking about the pre electro times here).