High Perfomance Gun

[confedman75]

Sorry i had omit E-mag just too many poeple have em and would vote for em.

[HoppysMag]

i didnt vote cause in my eyes they are all hype... the only gun besides a mag that i can think of not being hype is a bushy.

[confedman75]

but arent bushys oly like 800$? im going to extremely high performance (above 1000$)

[DaosBeoulve]

I'm confused...

Just because it costs more, that automatically makes it higher performance? How ya figure?

[HoppysMag]

performance has nothing to do with price...a 120$ tippmann is higher performance than a 199$spyder flash ( in my opinion)

[confedman75]

isnt the flash electro? strip off electro and vuala tippmann costs more

[Spray Painter]

Just because it costs more, that automatically makes it higher performance? bushys are only around 600$ for one with an LCD screen

[petefol]

i think maybe he's trying to say what high performance gun is best for the price?

[Fred]

my Phantom and Sterling are high performance pumps... :)

I can rip 6bps with either one! :eek::rolleyes:

---Fred

[AcemanPB]

Yeah bushmaster's are great performing guns, you can MAKE them cost as much as an Angel or "high end" gun if you milled and annoed them to your liking ;)

[Dayspring]

Write in Ballot-

EMAG!!!

[FactsOfLife]

write in ballot:

Palmer Classic Typhoon or Squall...



mmmmmmmm classic....

[Ov3rmind]

DYE, wtf? They just use other peoples guns, mill 'em to death, then sell them for 3x their normal value. They don't even have their own gun.

Besides, NONE of my favorite guns are on there (that includes the Mag). Where are the Viking and Excalibur? The AutoCockers? The Bushmasters? The countless other guns?

[P4ULuk]

What about AKA?

Performance wise you've got ultra consistant and effecient. Once the new software comes out they'll keep up bps wise as well.

Paul.

[HoppysMag]

confedman75 ya ok. but heres the tricky part... it does come with electro grip... same as saying an emag is nothing but an rt pro with an electro grip... and since a black magic is 800$ a rt is 500 and an emag is 1000$ that makes the Black Magic better? i was trying to emphasize how price has nothing to do with performance, but no you had to go and mess it up :D

[FutureMagOwner]

WHATTA BOUT MATRICIES!!!!!! ;) matrixes rock and tribals are heckuva cheap now and are really nice guns

[FeelTheRT]

Smart Parts is a company, not a marker.
Bob Long is a person, not a marker
DYE is a company, not a marker
WDP and once again WDP is not a marker, but a company.
Emag and Emag Extreme are the same gun..

this j0nk is rigged!

[HoppysMag]

Smart Parts is a company, not a marker.
Bob Long is a person, not a marker
DYE is a company, not a marker
WDP and once again WDP is not a marker, but a company.
Emag and Emag Extreme are the same gun..

this j0nk is rigged!

uh ya ok dude:rolleyes: where have you been? under a rock, on mars, with your fingers in your ears?

EDIT: un less you mean in terms of the valve then they are the same ( xcept for the new aluminum valves), and if that gets to you start calling kingman...:D

[DarkPhoenix]

In my own personal opinion, once you get to markers above $1000, everything is personal preference.

Now, that aside, I would have to pick the C&C E-mag Extreme. I say this because besides being an E-mag, with all the plusses of being an E-mag, it does away with everything people have been complaining about mags in one move. It comes with Level 10 Bolt System installed, so no chops. It has an Anti-Chop Eye, even less chops. The body is made out of the new generation aluminum, I believe, so it's much lighter and you can anodize to whatever you want. It takes "auto threads" (hehe, thats what it should be called now!).

[pito189]

Originally posted by AcemanPB
Yeah bushmaster's are great performing guns, you can MAKE them cost as much as an Angel or "high end" gun if you milled and annoed them to your liking ;)

You can make them cost as much to YOU as an Angel, but it still is only a 600 dollar Bushmaster.

Are you one of those people that buys a stock cocker, puts all the trimmings on it. And then tries to sell it for a $1000 because thats how much all the parts add up to?

I talked to one of those guys the other day. Thought his cocker was great because had all the best parts on it. He didn't realize it is still a stock cocker.

People don't realize when they buy a 1200 dollar Angel, or Excalibur, or CnC E-Mag, that they are getting what they pay for.

So in parting you will pay for a high performance gun. You can't buy a cheaper gun, and make it high performance withouth paying more, than if you would have just purchased one to begin with!

[Spray Painter]

LOL, pito189 it took me a while to figure out what you said, but after i got it, it made perfect sense... kind of ;)

[Ov3rmind]

You could always buy a Sonic or Shocktech Bushy, they cost as much as an Angel. I also happen to think the Sonic is a real performer, however the Shocktech is kinda' meh.

[pito189]

Ya well that kinda stuff just bothers me.

I have also had two very late nights this weekend. Last night we beat Arkansas in 6 overtimes. That was the BEST!!!:D

[TastePAINt88]

Well, besides emag, Id have to say Exaliber, Viking, Image custom Matrix, Nasty Impulse, Bushy B2K2(tricked of course) iR3 fly (MAYBE... man, there many more guns Id consider, Mini BM cocker, Spearhead cocker, Vortex Cocker, Or hell BUILD YOUR OWN COCKER SO ITS "PERFECT" IN YOUR EYES, theres a lot more to add to that list.

[xen_100]

Originally posted by pito189




I talked to one of those guys the other day. Thought his cocker was great because had all the best parts on it. He didn't realize it is still a stock cocker.


that is a totaly pile if crap! what makes a "stock" cocker "stock" is tha fact that is has all stock parts! if you upgrade every part on it and make it perform as well as a custom cocker, then it is worth everybit as much as a custom. just because it doesn't have some "important" name brand on it and super slick ano job, doesn't make it any less custom or any less worth! it people like you that give paintballers a bad name! snob!

[FactsOfLife]

I kinda agree with xen here on what constitutes a stock or high end cocker.

Kind of like taking a decent performing car and add a lot of aftermarket performance parts to it.

Does it now perform at a higher level? sure does. is it stock? sure isn't.

Is it high performance? well depends on your dfinition of high performance to a degree.

Take a stock cocker. Add all the nice bits that make any "high end" cocker "high end". Except for some milling that adds little if anything to performance, and now it shoots the same as that 1000 dollar cocker, doesn't that make it "high end" as well?

So what if it doesn't say Dye on it, or Orracle. It still performs at the same level as they do.

With the amount of aftermarket parts out there for them, and they ain't cheap, it's easy to dump a grand into a stocker and come out with world class performance.

[EnderWigginPballin]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife
write in ballot:

Palmer Classic Typhoon or Squall...



mmmmmmmm classic....

I'll agree with those, but vote Blazer too.........

Xen is exactly right. A stock cocker upgraded with the high end parts, AND tuned properly is no longer stock. you have removed the "factory stock" parts. if what you say is true pito. then SHocktech, Spearhead, Pro Paintball etc etc are just charging $700+ for the milling and anno they did to the body.... cause it's still a stock cocker, it's just milled up and has new parts.....

[FactsOfLife]

I'm an old school PPS guy bud! I haven't shot a Blazer.... yet.

but I am certain it'll be every bit as nice as Glenn's original stuff...


My name is James, and I am a PPS addict....:D

[pito189]

Originally posted by xen_100
that is a totaly pile if crap! what makes a "stock" cocker "stock" is tha fact that is has all stock parts! if you upgrade every part on it and make it perform as well as a custom cocker, then it is worth everybit as much as a custom. just because it doesn't have some "important" name brand on it and super slick ano job, doesn't make it any less custom or any less worth! it people like you that give paintballers a bad name! snob!

People like me that give paintballers a bad name. Thank you for the personal insult I had not had one today, but to discuss the topic at hand, and to use FactsOfLife car analogy.

Ok my point is that if you take say a stock vertical feed cocker. You add everything to it. What do you have? You still have a stock vertical feed cocker with upgrades.

If you take a Honda Accord for example, and tune up the engine, body kit, and so on. What do you have? Still a stock Honda with aftermarket accessories.

Now don't tell me that there is not a difference between a aftermarket Honda Accord (stock cocker with upgrades), and an Jaguar X-type(lets say an Orracle). The Honda is still a Honda with accessories. Therefore it is still a stock Honda, but the Jaguar is a Jaguar, built specifically for performance, and to very high standards. Hence the more expensive price tag right at the beginning.

Important Name you say? What does this important name mean? It means that the company took special care with their product, to make sure it meets the highest possible standards. Now I am not saying that Honda skimps on their cars, but they probaly produce in the millions of cars a year. So there will be not the same care put into each particular car.


Originally posted by FactsOfLife
I kinda agree with xen here on what constitutes a stock or high end cocker.
Kind of like taking a decent performing car and add a lot of aftermarket performance parts to it.
Does it now perform at a higher level? sure does. is it stock? sure isn't.
Is it high performance? well depends on your dfinition of high performance to a degree.
Take a stock cocker. Add all the nice bits that make any "high end" cocker "high end". Except for some milling that adds little if anything to performance, and now it shoots the same as that 1000 dollar cocker, doesn't that make it "high end" as well?
So what if it doesn't say Dye on it, or Orracle. It still performs at the same level as they do. With the amount of aftermarket parts out there for them, and they ain't cheap, it's easy to dump a grand into a stocker and come out with world class performance.

You are correct it is very easy to dump a grand into a stock cocker. I was almost bitten by the upgrade bug, but I realized after browsing many of the classifieds paintball forums on the Internet. That even after you dumped all your money into your cocker. Made it the best shooting gun anyone has every seen. That it is still a stock cocker.
The $100 palmer micro reg you put on there loses its full value as soon as you install it in the gun. You can never sell anything that you put on that gun for its original price ever again.

Most high-end cockers do have a fair amount of milling done to the body. And why is this. The trend as of late is for the lightest possible gun. Milling is not cheap no matter who you are.


Originally posted by EnderWigginPballin
I'll agree with those, but vote Blazer too.........
Xen is exactly right. A stock cocker upgraded with the high end parts, AND tuned properly is no longer stock. you have removed the "factory stock" parts. if what you say is true pito. then SHocktech, Spearhead, Pro Paintball etc etc are just charging $700+ for the milling and anno they did to the body.... cause it's still a stock cocker, it's just milled up and has new parts.....

Basically if the stock WGP body is still on the gun. Then the gun=stock, just upgraded.

What you say just does not make any sense. You say that Shocktech, Spearhead, Pro Paintball, etc, etc, are just charging $700+ dollars for milling and anno. Then you say because it is still a stock cocker. Then you say it is milled up and has new parts. If it is milled, and has new parts, then how may I ask is it a stock cocker? The point that I am trying to make through all this rambling is that no matter how much money you pour into a stock cocker. The body is still WGP. So you cannot expect to get $1000 for you gun, just because it has all the same parts as a Freeflow, because it does not. The company did not make it and it does not have the body.

Pick it apart, I kept getting off track because people like Xen bother me tremendously.

EDITED: FOR SPELLING

[EnderWigginPballin]

Originally posted by pito189
If it is milled, and has new parts, then how may I ask is it a stock cocker? The point that I am trying to make through all this rambling is that no matter how much money you pour into a stock cocker. The body is still WGP. So you cannot expect to get $1000 for you gun, just because it has all the same parts as a Freeflow, because it does not. The company did not make it and it does not have the body.


I think I might have misunderstood what you said. I didn't mean to imply that a stock cocker with all FF parts is worth a 1000 bucks, but surely, you would pay more for the gun than you would if it was still completely stock, but nothing insane like 1k.

it's like, is my minimag worth more now, or after I upgrade to level 10?

also, don't most custom shops buy their bodies from WGP? so almost everything, except Merlin body guns, has a stock body that's milled out. one could argue that an unmilled body is better, because although it is heavier, it is more durable becuase the aluminum is thicker, and could withstand more pressure...... :p

[FactsOfLife]

pito, that's why I alluded to the fact that you'd still have a cocker with a stock body.

my point about the car upgrades was comparing the original car with the upgraded car.

and I do agree with you on the devaluation of paintball stuff as soon as it comes out of the box.

need an example?

My cousin recently sold his FreeFlow Mini Racegun here on AO.

By all accounts possibly one of the best markers on the planet.

He had nearly 2500 bucks in it with all the money he spent on it.

He sold it for the grand total of...... 900 bucks.

now that's depreciation.

[xen_100]

that is the worst analogy I ever heard.

If you take your honda accord and upgrade it, put on a cold air intake, motech exaust, turbo kit, etc.........it is hardly still a "stock" honda. a "stock" honda would have no chance in a race.

a stock cocker would be the equivilant of a stock accord and the oracle would be the upgraded accord. just because you have factory installed oracle parts, that doesn't change your honda into a jaguar! how could it? if I took a stock WGP centerfeed cocker and than put all oracle parts on it, it would perform that same! (would look different)

I still say you are an elitest snob if you REALLY believe that a gun with factory installed upgrades is better than a gun that had the upgrades installed by the person who bought the gun. In the end they have the same performing gun!

(BTW I would take a honda over a jag anyday........it would get me to work everyday, and not have 15 electrical problems ;))

[pito189]

Originally posted by xen_100
I still say you are an elitest snob if you REALLY believe that a gun with factory installed upgrades is better than a gun that had the upgrades installed by the person who bought the gun. In the end they have the same performing gun!

(BTW I would take a honda over a jag anyday........it would get me to work everyday, and not have 15 electrical problems ;))

I guess your right, I prefer my guns to be made by people who know what they are doing, instead of 14yr old punks. LOL, I guess your right then. :D

EDIT: Just so you don't think I'm biased because of my snobbishness. I do actually drive a Honda, a 1985 Faded blue Honda Accrod with over 200,000 miles on it.

[EnderWigginPballin]

Originally posted by pito189
I prefer my guns to be made by people who know what they are doing, instead of 14yr old punks.


I just knew it was all the little 14 year olds that build all those crazy Cockers!!!!!! :D

I didn't know Honda made a car called the "Accrod" lol... j/k

[pito189]

Originally posted by EnderWigginPballin


I just knew it was all the little 14 year olds that build all those crazy Cockers!!!!!! :D

I didn't know Honda made a car called the "Accrod" lol... j/k

Actually what I said is I like to people who know what they are doing to make cockers. NOT 14yr old punks.

Ok ok ok, Accord. It's Accord. My fault.:rolleyes:

[EnderWigginPballin]

Originally posted by pito189

Actually what I said is I like to people who know what they are doing to make cockers. NOT 14yr old punks.


yeah, I knew......

which is why I said "crazy cockers" not "custom cockers" and if you like people that know what they are doing when they make closed bolt guns.......

go to www.palmer-pursuit.com

[pito189]

Link does not work.

[mike e]

i dont know why but i always had a soft spot for smart parts....go figure

[EnderWigginPballin]

the link doesn't work?????

that's odd, it works fine when I click on it. did you try just re-typing it?

[pito189]

Works now. Me like.:D

[Timmee]

So, are you saying, pito189, that the cocker I built from parts with a raw WGP CF body is stock? I would say it's modified, not stock. I wouldn't, however, call it custom (at least not without some serious milling and annodizing).

[pito189]

Originally posted by Timmee
So, are you saying, pito189, that the cocker I built from parts with a raw WGP CF body is stock? I would say it's modified, not stock. I wouldn't, however, call it custom (at least not without some serious milling and annodizing).

Ok that is fine. MODIFIED. I like that. It is a better word for something like that than custom.