Makers looking like real guns? good/bad??

[boomerfoxtrot]

Makers looking like real guns, good/bad?
well, I'm sure we all have our own thought on the matter, people fuss about the tippman a-5 cause it looks tooo much like a REAL LIVE GUN.

Then there are people who like the idea of guns looking like other real guns, we could make all of our makers look like ducks or something... would that make everyone happy? NO!

We all have to have something to fuss about, and I'm sure the new, ARMOTECHARM-WG65-ELITE models are going to cause some heads to turn. Paintball Makers that look like REAL guns, (take off the hopper and CO2 tank, and then no one would really know)

I just want to see what people think, should we aviod making our paintball makers look like real guns? Should we care? I mean after all, CAP GUNS have been around a long time, and who crys about them looking like real guns?

Just want your thoughts.... mine..
If I had an extra $600 I'ld buy one of theses new guns and use them for "woodsball" cause to tell you the truth... they do look sweet...

here is a pix of the models I'm talking about.. and yes they shoot REAL paintballs, not the little tiny 6mm ones... this is just a new paintball maker.

[boomerfoxtrot]

oh yeah, here is the other model..

[cphilip]

Somebodies gonna get shot is all I can say....A certain amount of resembelance is inevitable though. But any more is not a good idea.

[boomerfoxtrot]

well.. I honestly think that if someone is dumb enough to walk around, pretending that paintball makers are real guns then it's their fault if they end up getting shot.

If people walk around holding their paintball makers in one hand and a bag in another... then they are setting themselves up. I don't any cops are going to start shooting just b/c you have what might be a gun in your hand... as long as you put it down and don't pretend it's a real gun.. and besides, you should have your maker in a case or bag of some short if your going out in public with it!

people just don't think.... the world has enough dumb people...

[cphilip]

Originally posted by boomerfoxtrot
well.. I honestly think that if someone is dumb enough to walk around, pretending that paintball makers are real guns then it's their fault if they end up getting shot.

Kids do it all the time...And manufacturers end up getting sued...

[boomerfoxtrot]

I think if anyone is to blame it would be the parents then...

stores shouldn't sell you paintball stuff unless your 18.. there is a reason... walmart sticks to this rule

[HYPER]

maker = marker?

you mean marker right? as in paintball marker? I noticed all through your above posts you call it a "maker" so that rules out a typo.

is there something im missing?

-Hyper

[boomerfoxtrot]

lol no.... I'm just lazy.. maker=marker

[Bulldog]

I think it's a bad idea, if I saw someone carring that gun down the street, he wouldn't have long before he had my gun aimed at him, and not much longer before he got shot.

*EDIT - unless he dropped it after I challenged him and moved away real quick* .

Besides, markers need to look like whatever is the most functional, reliable method of slinging paint. I think these guns are bad for the sport, and lend credence to the "kids with guns" image and "weekend warrior" stereotypes that plauge paintball. They're just not needed.

[RamboPreacher]

guess, since I am a noobee to AO, I am not sure where I like pies comes from, but I voted for "bad" for the sport, but with a exception.

Having a military background (if I tell you I would have to make sure that you never existed) - I like them, but only in specific circumstances. for me that would be in specific scenario games and for "alternate" versions of paintball.

I know that there are many who might disagree, but there are groups that play paintball with full military strategy in mind (I don't happen to agree with it, but I don't put them down for it). Personally, there is way too much diffference in "real" military strategy, to make it very similar.

Anyway, with the sport growing so wildly as it has in the last few years (how many of you here even know what a pumper is, let alone own one, and still use it - rhetorical question, for example) - I would like to see that kind (military look-a-likes) of paintball marker filtered from the public eye.

Paintball is fun!

the last thing I want to see (as far as PR goes for Paintball), is military looking, especially ones specificaly designed to look that way, on the speedball/tourney scene, or in other public view. Obviously the chances of that are slim, but you can't say it won't happen.

anyway - just my opinion.

[Paintchucker]

I think they look good. As for walking down the street with them, lets get real. Do you walk down the street with your paintball gun??? Let's face it, some people play in the woods, some people play speedball, some people play scenario games. Just cause they play differently than you do does not make them wrong. In scenario games, the more real the "marker" looks, the better. It gets the same admiration that an emag or angel gets on the speedball field.

Here is an interesting one. It shoots a special .40 cal paintball that loads from a 30 shot clip. Not sure where you would play with it, as it takes special paintballs that the local fields wouldn't have, so it would have to be BYOP. Only downside I see is the little plastic rings that hold the balls in the clips eject just like a real shell and cost an extra 2.5 cents each.

http://importpaintball.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/A2Shorty.jpg


http://importpaintball.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/CrimeBuster.jpg


http://importpaintball.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/RISCQB.jpg

The japanese video is pretty cool, but those guys play pretty hardcore over there. Some had good masks, but some of the guys were playing with only shooting glasses on.

I do believe in calling them "markers" and when you get hit with a paintball you are "elimiated"...

[Pand0ra]

Very bad.

It may be different in the USA due to the way you deal with weapons in your country, but here in Belgium, if someone is caught playing with this kind of marker (or simply witnessed by someone influent), it could be the end of the paintball as we know it here.

Too many poeples are against paintball here :(.

I can fully understand the fun of playing with this kind of marker in a big scenario (I would like to buy a custom MG42 one day :D), but it's not (yet) a good idea to show this to the public.
There's also big issues of safety. There's a reason why most of the air soft guns are in bright colors (at least here).

@++

[hitech]

Originally posted by Bulldog
I think it's a bad idea, if I saw someone carring that gun down the street, he wouldn't have long before he had my gun aimed at him, and not much longer before he got shot.

While I agree that making paintball markers look like firearms is a bad idea, I for one sure hope you aren't a cop, and I'll leave it at that. :(

[Shirow]

I think it's a bad idea. If I want to go shoot real people with real guns, I'll become a serial killer.

[ogre55]

On the one hand, I agree with RamboPreacher, there is a place for these types of markers for the scenerio/military crowd. However if you think people will not carry their markers out in the open, even if they look like real fireams, let me relay a story.

This is not personal expereince but something I heard a long time ago. The incident supposedly happened in Brooklyn, New York, in the late 80s. For all I know it could be urban legend, but people have done dumber things (think of the last time you saw someone take their goggles off in the middle of a game when they were told not to at least 5 times), so I can easily see this happening.

Anyway, on to the show.

Marine Park is a fairly large sprawling park in the middle of Brooklyn. It is surrounded by stores and private homes.

Some bunch of numbnuts were playing paintball in the park after dark. The markers they were using looked very similiar to an M-16/CAR-15 with stock, peep site/carry handle in back and the front triangle site. One of these geniuses decided that he was hungry/thirsty/bored and went across the street to a convenience store in order to purchase something. He had full camo on with the marker slung over his shoulder. When he walked out of the store, there where a number of New York Cities finest, guns drawn and pointed at our friend, the idiot.

Have I mentioned this guy was not very bright.

Anyway, after having his life flash before his eyes and finding out what it feels like to be incontinent, he was arrested.

Again, this could very well be urban legend, but I know that the marker in question did exist, I saw some pictures of one on a very old magazine cover, and I can easily see someone being that stupid.

In todays much more tense enviroment, I can easily see someone carrying one of the Armotech markers out in the open, get shot.

Ogre

[TRIAD]

This sport is made to be fun, and the markers are made to be function for the sport. That is how markers should be created. Most people, with the exception of new paintball members, would NOT want to use one of these on a regular basis, for the simple fact that they were not created with paintball in mind.

The weapons these guns are modeled after were created for long-range (in comparison to paintball) combat. They were NOT created to be used at short range. Thus, companies make these to target a very small (in my opinion) niche in the paintball market.

Secondly, assuming they made paintball guns after close-quarters guns such as the MP-5, I would still disagree with it. Paintball guns should be made to play paintball, NOT to make it look more military-like. Sure, it may LOOK good to some people, but let's be realistic. Would you rather have a "non-military" look to paintball, and be able to play? Or would you like to bring these militarily-modeled paintball guns into the sport at the risk of paintball being banned?

I will NEVER buy one of these markers, for the simple fact that I buy a paintball gun for functionality (and somewhat looks). I have not, and will NEVER buy a paintball gun so that I can "feel" more military-like. If I want to be in the military, I'll join the United States Armed Forces. If I want to play paintball, I'll buy a paintball marker that functions well on the field, and looks nice showing to others.

For those of you who have bought or will be buying a paintball marker that resembles an actual firearm, be forwarned: You are putting yourself in the utmost of danger and doing a disservice to the sport of paintball. Police officers will NOT mess around with you if they think you're carrying a real gun. For those of you not following the news about the sniper in the Washing area, one of the suspected weapons is an M-16 with scope. These paintball markers resemble that weapon, and a police officer will acknowledge it as such.

So, for the sake of the sport and the safety of those who partake in it, paintball markers should NOT be modeled after real firearms. This greatly hinders the image we are trying to portray of our sport, and endangers its players. If these markers became popular, the outcome will be something we do not want to imagine.

Buy it for practicality, not for looks.

[cledford]

As someone who has been involved with defending the 2nd amendment for over a decade, a former police officer and someone who started playing this sport almost at it's beginning (1987) I can say that IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE GUNS LOOK REAL OR NOT. You can get shot by a police officer just as easy when brandishing an outlandishly colored marker as an A-5. In the dusk/dark it does not matter. To the uninformed soccer mom - in broad daylight - they CANNOT ever tell the difference - and probably wouldn't want to try if they could. The simple point is that NO ONE EVER should be brandishing/displaying ANY marker ANY WHERE except: home, store, or field.

Second, there are plenty out there who hate our sport and WILL NEVER accept it because we (regardless of what terms we use) shoot (mark) other people (players) to kill (eliminate) them using guns (gas powered markers). If you think annoing your Emag pink is going to change the minds of the anti-PBers (a faction of the anti-gun crowd) you are HUGELY mistaken. It is not the marker (or the look of the marker) that they are upset with, it is what they see as the anti-social behavior underpinning the whole game. Lets face it, these same people have a problem with football, want outcome based education, love "hate crime" and other feel good legislation - and you think that they will ever accept paintball as a true sport because your cocker is barney colored? Get real.

The simple fact is that there are a lot of people who enjoy the realism of the "look alike" markers. these people support the sport by purchasing equipment, buying paint and air, and playing at your local field. They SUPPORT your right to play through their activities - even if it doesn't seem that way since your paths never cross. The Antis will never support the sport at all and if you think they'll make exceptions for one group who wears bright uniforms and has pretty blue "markers" over another group with black ones you are wrong. The truth is the "real looking marker" crowd helps keep the sport alive, and the Antis try to make it go away - so who should you support?

One of the reasons it was so easy to ban real guns in the UK was that all the different shooting sports all looked down on each other and had no unity. When the Antis tried disarming one, the others buried their heads in the sand and were thankful that the zealots weren't coming for them - but the next time they were. The same could happen with paintball - writing off one group because you don't understand, support, or like their style of play is short sighted - because in the end it is the numbers that matter and when you sacrifice players (of any type) up front you've got less to stand up when the final assault on your rights comes. Ben Franklin said "you can hang together, or you'll hang separately." The point is that if we divide into "us" and "them", they might get taken out first, but once the milsim/scenario guys are gone, who do you think the soccer moms are coming after next?

Up until recently I didn't care for the milsim markers, but am now looking into purchasing an AT10. I also just bought a Tippmann 203 grenade launcher. These guns add a very real, and very fun level of excitement to the Big/scenario style game. As a former military and law enforcement guy I (along with a lot of other people police or military background or not) really enjoy the realism and I am looking forward to getting into this new (for me) area of paintball.

As far as people outside our country - I'm sorry for your luck - but it's not our fault your government is so out of control that they can dictate what you PLAY GAMES with just because of the way SOMETHING LOOKS. Luckily, in the country where I live I can own an AR15 (civilian version of M-16) and I can also own the NON-LETHAL marker version as well. Every time I read an article about paintball over in Europe I see disgustingly smug statements about how you guys "cleaned up" paintballs image by leading the way with: getting out of the woods, banning camouflage, making markers look less dangerous, promoting speedball - yet you are still on the brink of being banned in your own countries. My take is that if you guys had STOOD UP for your rights, instead of pussing out and giving in to garner favor with those that ultimately seek to destroy your past-time, then you'd be far better off today.

Cphil, you and I both heard Tom's law suit story in Pittsburgh. It was obvious to me that ANYONE can be sued in the US ANYTIME regardless of how frivolous - so what's the use worrying about it?

-Calvin

[cphilip]

Originally posted by cledford
Cphil, you and I both heard Tom's law suit story in Pittsburgh. It was obvious to me that ANYONE can be sued in the US ANYTIME regardless of how frivolous - so what's the use worrying about it?

-Calvin


He as a manufacturer worried about it. And his conclusion in that issue was to not make em!

[Bulldog]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bulldog
I think it's a bad idea, if I saw someone carring that gun down the street, he wouldn't have long before he had my gun aimed at him, and not much longer before he got shot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



While I agree that making paintball markers look like firearms is a bad idea, I for one sure hope you aren't a cop, and I'll leave it at that.

hitech, I didn't mean to sound so militant, I just wanted to convey the thought that I think these markers are a bad idea and look to realistic, but theres no way I'm gonna risk not coming home to my family just cause it might or might not be a paint marker. That pic boomer posted looks like a real gun to me, to real.

[Skoad]

to be honest i don't think it matters. About a month ago I went to my grandma's house after getting my tank filled ato the pro shop and my aunt was there. The first thing she said was "Is that a bomb?" I bet some people who don't know what a paintball gun looks like in the first place may mistake it for a real gun.

Airsoft guns look like real guns anyway, i wouldn't worry about it.

[bsolomon]

You don't have to look too hard to already see cases where this type of thing is already a problem.

Yesterday's news had a report of a police officer who observed a young boy running down a street carrying what appeared to be a very real firearm. The police officer drew his service weapon and took up the chase. He then was forced to disarm the boy. Luckily the crying child did as he was told and dropped what he was carrying, which turned out to be an AirSoft Sig Sauer P228 (9mm) replica. Many of the AirSoft "guns" look even more realistic than the paintball variants because they can don't have to shoot a 68 caliber projectile, and therefore their barrels and magazines are more to scale.

This story could have easily ended very badly...

[rudy]

I have not had time to read all the post but here is my take.

A do you hear of people gettign shot all the time while playing airsoft? well i dont and thier guns are usually made to look exactly like real guns. Stores sell little kids cap guns and everything all the time only difference is a red tip on the barrel. half the kids pop the red tip off right away. do kids get shot all the time? not really.
im not worried about people getting shot if they got shot it was someone being stupid either the shooter or the person with the look alike. and they could of avoided. there is also common sense. None of my guns look like real guns. but guess what when i transport then i do so in a bag or hidden from view. at college i make sure its dissassembled before i goto the bathroom to clean it.

no the real question was not is it safe but is it good or bad for the sport. and some of you may have seen my arguement before. There are way more people who get into the sport for its war like properties in one year then paintball has probably seen in its entire life on the other side. So I think they are good for the sport. for somepeople a guy running around looking like a clown with all his colors just looks rediculous. they need to live the fantasy of the sport, then they can through good role models merge into the other game styles.

Look at it this way how many people do you know that play counterstrike. thats right probably alot more then you know play more advanced games like tribes2, halflife deathmatch. but guess what HLDM would probably be dead now if it werent for the few cs players that trickle over. Cs is a game that was built to similate something more real. but it was not made to be a highly skilled game at a personal level. thats ok. I wont go and say that cs ruined multiplayer gaming in a few years the players will advance to more demanding games. and there will be more money and players then ever could be imagined before.

this is true of paintball they may be newbies and they may not be competitive but some of them mature into those players some of them never do but they still drive the paintball economy by playing the way they like too, and in the end for most of the players its just about having fun, and living a fantasy

[rudy]

also if you want to change the sport for the better start with the people who should know enough to be able to be changed. the tourney scene is what needs to changed. the feilds the playstyle its got to be more spectator friendly that meas less sitting around dumping 2000 rounds a game so a guy can move and more action that people can watch. it also means clean up the cheating clean up the language clean up the basically everything that is tournament paintball.

[Ov3rmind]

I agree with you, TRIAD, 100%. I see no point to these milsim paintball markers, the only effect I could see it having is a negative one. What do you possibly have to gain my owning one of these? You want to be a soldier, go join the army and serve this country. You want to play paintball? Use the equipment the way it was supposed to be used and get rid of your newbish "sniper" fantasies.

The possible negative effects have already been stated by other AO members to a great extent, so I don't see a need to elaborate on them.

[Ov3rmind]

also if you want to change the sport for the better start with the people who should know enough to be able to be changed. the tourney scene is what needs to changed. the feilds the playstyle its got to be more spectator friendly that meas less sitting around dumping 2000 rounds a game so a guy can move and more action that people can watch. it also means clean up the cheating clean up the language clean up the basically everything that is tournament paintball.
I doubt changing the tourney scene would do a whole lot right now. You have to consider that most of the public has no idea that there are paintball tourneys. Changing something they have never heard about will do nothing. When paintball tournament play does replace the war image we have, that is when we might have to start cleaning up the tourney scene. Besides, we already have a headstart: X-Ball.

[rudy]

actually it will do something, if we get things changed at the tourney level it will do many times more help then just trying to stop people from buying paintball guns that arent shaped or colored the way you want. what it will do is increase the chance that more people will watch tournament play it will then increase the chance of it getting air time on television and maybe even radio. at that point then more people will see the sport in a different manner and many will moddel thier own play and thier fantasy on what they see.

And the whole point of my post is who is more likely to give a rip and or be able to change the way they play and live the sport? I would say you have a better chance at reaching tournament players who are more likely to read the publications and watch the web sites. and will probably care more about the future of the sport.

also xball is a start, maybe to be honest i didnt really see it as any different then the current tourney play except you do it a whole bunch of times in a row so you will be a little more aggressive since you arent banking everything on that one game. but as people get more expirence they will probably slow it back down. But i could be wrong either way its just a start and stuff like that has been tried before it never flew. of course maybe there is enough money backign it to force it to fly this time. either way i sure hope we have somethign better in store for us then just xball


, the only effect I could see it having is a negative one.

see the problem is a you have a hard time seeing things how they really are and giving credit where credit is due. If you cant see the millions of dollars not tournament players but rec players shooting tippmanns are dumping into the sport as positive i cant help you.

[joeyjoe367]

Well, I'll have to admit, Those things are pretty damn cool looking.

...would I use one, or promote the use of these things? Heck no. UNless the whole thing was pink. Then it wouldn't be cool anymore, and therefore defeat the purpose of having it designed like an m-16 or whatever it's supposed to be.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
I agree with you, TRIAD, 100%. I see no point to these milsim paintball markers, the only effect I could see it having is a negative one. What do you possibly have to gain my owning one of these? You want to be a soldier, go join the army and serve this country. You want to play paintball? Use the equipment the way it was supposed to be used and get rid of your newbish "sniper" fantasies.

The possible negative effects have already been stated by other AO members to a great extent, so I don't see a need to elaborate on them.

People like you make my point above. You can tell the difference between a milsim marker and a regular paintball gun - MOST PEOPLE CANNOT, WHATEVER THE COLOR. They all look real to them - fancy color or not. Paintball started and will continue to exist because guys want to run around and shoot each other. Trying to make "bad" groups because their markers look "too real" and good groups who make their guns look shiny or colored will not work. You can tell the difference, but the average anti-gun, million-mom marching, rabid zelot won't (and doesn't want to) be able to tell the difference.

Your attitude is the one I was talking about in England. It is basically "screw them cause I don't enjoy what they're doing anyhow" and "They're bad, because they're war mongers - but I'm different because I just play a game..." Dividing "us" is the quickest way for "them" to do away with paintball.

-Calvin

[hitech]

Originally posted by cledford
...Dividing "us" is the quickest way for "them" to do away with paintball.

While I don't like the idea of making paintball markers look like firearms, THAT IS A VERY TRUE STATEMENT. It is something ALL of us NEED to remember. And don't think for one minute it can't happen. It already has before.

[zach rumchak]

i was scanning through and i seen you should be 18 to purchase paintball equipment "walmart sticks to this rule"

well i dont think they do,i have bought p8 from them i am 14yrs old and my cousin knows someone who went in bout a brass eagle gun accidentally shot a friend in the eye and the parents sued wal-mart for selling them the gun
and the bad thing is is i live around the chicagoland area it isnt like the middle of nowhere were it makes a little difference

bye the way the kid did loose sight in that eye so use your safteys ok!

[ogre55]

Originally posted by zach rumchak
i was scanning through and i seen you should be 18 to purchase paintball equipment "walmart sticks to this rule"

well i dont think they do,i have bought p8 from them i am 14yrs old and my cousin knows someone who went in bout a brass eagle gun accidentally shot a friend in the eye and the parents sued wal-mart for selling them the gun
and the bad thing is is i live around the chicagoland area it isnt like the middle of nowhere were it makes a little difference

bye the way the kid did loose sight in that eye so use your safteys ok!

This is very interesting in that:

A) I have never heard of this incident so I guess it did not make the national news (I am in NYC) and

B) The, as cledford amusingly called them, Soccer Moms did not use this incident as a rallying cry to mobilize the troops against our sport.

Are we off the liberal radar? I doubt it as the city of Baltimore has recently banned paintball. I wonder what this means?

AGD and Co., are you not in the Chicagoland area? Have you heard of this incident or any reprecutions that resulted from it?

Ogre

[zach rumchak]

i am not 100% sure of that this happened but this is what my cousin told me


but i am sure that wal-mart sold me and my friends a box of pmi premium

[The Dreaded Jew]

if you want the look of real guns play airsoft. if you know where i can find a duck paintball gun tell me i want it. but the gun look bad it destroyes everything that paintball has worked to get out of when it emerged from the wood to become a ligit sport. besides the gun look is just a spyder or spyder clone with somesort of shell over it. stay away from the gun look!

[rudy]

where do you people get the idea that the woods are some kind of inferior low class type of paintball. look at the comments. jeeze, first of all i dont know where you came from but where i came from the entire reason "speedball" took over was because it was easier to ref and easier to watch, easier to setup and keep fair. not cause we thought the woods were some horrible place to be. or we were trying to break some stereotype. the truth of tha matter is it is very difficult to make a fair/even field in the woods due the fact that trees/land features do not have a controllable pattern. the real reason we came out of the woods could easily be argued that we lacked the intelligence and will power be able to design quality competitive fields in such an area. so we made speed ball real easy take any setup mirror it and you can say its fair. we can argue all day long about this but it all comes down to opinion and for as many reasons that you can give that the woods are some horrible place to play i can give just as many why speed ball is just as bad and takes less skill. in the end it doesnt matter cause either can be just as challenging in a well setup field. there is nothing more newbish then someone who just says i hate speedball cause of this and that, except maybe someone who feels the same about woods ball.
BTW paintball still isnt a legit sport, how do i know cause there are more people playing paintball then most other extreme sports including snowboarding, yet you dont see us getting any air time. just about any sport that as little a 10 players do can get in the olympics and or xgames, but not paintball and they know about our speedball. so obviosly that didnt solve anything.

[Sledgehammer]

Bad Idea to have them look like real guns!!!

Over here there's a law that interdicts <b>everything</b> that looks like a fully automatic weapon. Every paintball marker has to be put through a legislation process.
List of things that make Paintball guns look like a fully automatic weapon:

Combination of pistol grip <b>and</b> buttstock (yes, you con't have rifles with a pistol grip over here).
Any sort of vertically mounted bottle, frontgrip, expansion chamber, regulator or battery pack on the front part of the gun (whatever could be mistaken for a clip). Muzzle breaks.
M16 style carrying grips.
Bipods.

So, no it's not a good idea at all!!!

[TheEmagGuy]

These guns have been around for a few years, Anyone can get them and they wont ruin the sport, they are intended for tactical training and non lethal weapons.. As well rec and scenario players..

AT85, AT16, AT10, AT4, Rustys Weapons, Custom Weapons, Tippmann A5, M4 RAM and its versions

These markers do NOT give the sport a bad name. The person using the sport gives a bad name if he uses it the wrong way. Then again I could go down town shooting my E-mag if I wanted to give paintball a bad name so ANY MARKER can do this.

about *some bodys gonna get shot*

ya if ur stupid enough to walk in the middle of the street firing at people.. but some people are and for those people i have no emotions if they do get shot.

[The Dreaded Jew]

what im saying about the woods thing is that when people who are uneducated about paintball thing about playing in the woods they thing of scary militia guys in camo going out drinking and shooting guns at eachother in the back woods of like wisconson (im not bashing any one from wisconson) im not opposed in any way to woods ball its just its more of a steriotype of guys shooting guns thgats all i ment by it

[cledford]

Originally posted by TheEmagGuy

These markers do NOT give the sport a bad name. The person using the sport gives a bad name if he uses it the wrong way. Then again I could go down town shooting my E-mag if I wanted to give paintball a bad name so ANY MARKER can do this.

I agree completely, most of the stupid stunts you hear about (Like the idiots driving around Alaska shooting Eskimos) are done with Brass Eagle crap. (Easy to obtain, cheap to buy...) It is WHAT you do with the marker - not how it looks.

For the guys in others countrys - again sorry about your luck, but you allow your goverments to enact such foolish laws - fix the problem - why should I ngive up my rights because you (and your fellow citizens) gave up theirs?

-Calvin

[Stotic]

The whole thing adds a nice aspect to Big Games and Scenario games. The markers are pointless in any other intance and just represent our sport badly.

[Warped Designs]

Well, to start with the 3 members of Bog Frogs (novice or am b i forgot which) all shot markers made to look like actually fire arms, and yes they play speed ball and on sup air fields.
One is a mag and the other are spyder clones.

I have held a mp5, fired it, stripped it, cleaned it and to me it looks very little like the Tippmann A-5.

The AT series of paintball markers were designed for military training (mostly the marines)

The local field we practice on is owned by a police officer, nearly a quarter of the normal playing crowd are police men. Another large percentage are former military (including myself).


The sniper is not using a m-16, the bullets and shell case recovered are .223 caliber (which is a for the most part a varmint gun and can be found in bolt action, lever, and semi auto).

[MinimagRockin']

Quote Bulldog- "I think it's a bad idea, if I saw someone carring that gun down the street, he wouldn't have long before he had my gun aimed at him, and not much longer before he got shot."

You're telling me you would bust out your gun (I'm guessing a 45 pistol or something like that) on someone who looked like they were toting an m16 around? That's ballsy, to say the least. Hypothetically if I had an m16 and someone whipped out a glock on me I'd rip 'em a new one. It's like dualling with paint guns where someone has a stock class phantom and the other guy has an angel set at 12bps fullauto. The guy with the phantom is going to get maybe one shot off before a wall of paint rains down on him. Personally that's a firefight I'd walk away from.

[Bulldog]

No, I'd get into cover where I could view him unobserved if possible (also read: hide), call for lots of backup, and only challenge him if he was threatening someone with it.

I was just trying say how you cant really tell the difference between something like this and a real gun. I wasn't laying out my plan of action or anything, just saying: damn that looks like a real gun, and if someone did something stupid with it I might have to shoot. That's all.

[einhander619]

Yeah, those things look pretty mean, which is how real guns, not markers, SHOULD look. This is a bad deal, right here. I don't even understand the merit of using one these things in a scenario game! It's still paintball, and it's not like a setup that is great for speedball will suddenly become worthless in a woods/scenario environment. Paintball is a performance oriented sport, anyways. None of the parts on that that are functional as a firearm are functional in paintball. If someone stopped to setup the tripod or look through the scope, either I or one of my buddies would bunker them! It's not like that thing performs as well as most markers, anyways.

[Rooster]

The guns are a great idea, and only those who are scared of real firearms are scared of the prospect of their use. To the soccer mom a gun is a gun, whether it shoots paint, BB's, or bullets, and their little Tommy won't have one.

But running scared like the sky is falling everytime some ultra liberal organization takes a stab at paintball will do only one thing, ensure they do it again, and again, and again. Until someone stands up and tells them to mind their own business.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Rooster
The guns are a great idea, and only those who are scared of real firearms are scared of the prospect of their use. To the soccer mom a gun is a gun, whether it shoots paint, BB's, or bullets, and their little Tommy won't have one.

But running scared like the sky is falling everytime some ultra liberal organization takes a stab at paintball will do only one thing, ensure they do it again, and again, and again. Until someone stands up and tells them to mind their own business.

Amen, brother!

-Calvin

[MinimagRockin']

I'm with you guys! Also I think alot of those realistic looking paintguns are used for training for police, military, etc...so really they are probably doing just as much "good" as "bad."

PS- What's wrong with a realistic paintball gun anyway? Real guns are legal in the old US of A (as they should be) right? So why is it so crazy to have "fake" guns that look like real ones? A kid could be shot by the police screwing around with a spyder or capgun just as easily as he could be with a replica m16 or the like.

[Rancid Milk]

I am not into the whole markers looking like guns thing. Isn't that the reason that some people criticize paintball in the first place?

[loren]

I voted no on the pole, but i am a in between really. It doesn't hurt the sport but it can. Let's say some stupid *** dumb sh** decides to beat the crap out of some one and then shoot them in the eyes or just unloads on somebody for know reason with a paintball marker and a ball hits the victim in the eye, badly injuring or possibly kiling the person (let's face it, it can happen take for example the sniper at washington, by the way is a sick ****). Now this person goes on trial and paintball gets known as a violent sport people showcasing this markers and saying that this these is the kinda stuff that paintball is. Militistic, third war, red neckin rampage that only phycotic murders play. In this sense it is bad.

But on the other hand there are the poeple who like to play miltary style this gets them more of the feel. There are sceniro junkies who go all out on uniforms and special affects of the markers to make it fun for everone. There are many more easly thinkable more reasons why it is good along these lines. So in this sense yes it is good.

So it is kinda hard to say.

Just my 2 cents, I am not askin for any change.

[Duke Henry]

Cledford, EmagGuy, well said.

When you hear about the incidents with stupid punks shooting their guns into pedestrians, and others - what guns are they using?

I hate to get back to the "motto", so I will use my own little variant: Guns don't ruin the potential of the sport, stupid people with guns do.

[Automaggin2]

I dont like it....AT ALL. A local field owner (so i hear from my local store) got arrested because he had his tippman 98 on his passenger seat when he got pulled over. the officer drew his gun and tackled him to the ground. i know, you are supposed to have your guns stored away while driving, but if it were something like a cocker i think it would have been more noticable that it was a paintball gun

[RRfireblade]

I really hate these discusions because no one ever changes there opinions,but here goes nothing.

#1 - Anyone who thinks almost ANY paint gun doesn't look like a real gun from a distance in any place other than it's intended environment is SADLY MISTAKEN!Kids have been shot carrying toys painted orange under the right/wrong conditions.

#2 - Any one who carries ANY device capable of shooting a projectile out in the open and exposed to innocent bystanders should lose all privliges of ownership and be subject to hefty fines to either said person or his/her guardians.

#3 - Those that think scenerio guns have there place and purpose but are against them anyway,Where do you play with YOUR paint gun other than at a paintball field?

#4 - To any COMPLETE IDIOT who would point a gun at someone on the street who may or may not APPEAR to have a firearm should never be allowed to own a firearm in the first place and is a TOTAL embarressment and a disgrace to all of us gun owners who fight tooth and nail to keep our rights of ownership dispite people like you killing innocent people and giving "ammo" to those who oppose private ownership of firearms.By the way,those are the same people trying to end paintball as well so thank you again butt head!

#5 - I never thought any Paintballers would ever be in favor of removing any paint guns based on "appearance" which supports the majority of opponents of paintball who's beliefs are based on speculation of violence and many other misconceptions instead of facts and good old truth.As far as I'm concerned,either your with us or against us.Where do you draw the line on looks? Long barrels? foregrips? The color black? If your not carefull you will have your self out of a wonderful sport.Crime bill of the 90's ring a bell? All guns banned where based primarily on looks and physical dimesions.Any thing they thought looked like an "ASSAULT" gun was banned.Assault=carbine rifles,exposed magazines(AKA-fore grips),barrel shrouds(AKA-ported muzzels) and any thing looking "military".What's that have to do with anything? Most people are shot with dime store handguns and other easy to come by guns,not a $1200+ AR-15.

Anyway,just my 2 or maybe 5 cents worth.We as a lover of this game should stay united in our support of paintball and instead of wasted energy on negative issues,continue to promote the positives when ever possible.There are plenty who would all ready like to ban paintball guns let's not show them any desent among the ranks.

Jay.

Phew,that was way to long.

How 'bout banning long winded posts! LOL.

[AutomagRT1483]

Personally, i think markers that resemble real gun look awesome! Especially the one on rustyspaintballgear.com.
Too bad they cost to damn much. But the only draw back with them is that people that shun this great sport of paintball will try everything to stop it if they saw markers that resembled real guns. Thats too bad, that those kind of people have a mind set like that. Oh well. As for me,I'd never get one just because I love my RT Pro too damn much!!!

[kemikos]

Originally posted by AutomagRT1483
As for me,I'd never get one just because I love my RT Pro too damn much!!!

Then have it converted into one of these!

http://www.extremesportsandhobbies.com/mg42.html
http://www.extremesportsandhobbies.com/m14.html
http://www.extremesportsandhobbies.com/thompson.html

They are all built around our favorite marker (the ones in the pictures are 'Mags, but RT's can be converted just as easily).

Take a look at my sig to see where I stand on the issue... ;)

Look, cledford's got the only point that really matters here. YOU can tell the difference between a pink E-mag and a Tippmann A-5. If you think that anyone on the outside of the paintball world will, you're sorely mistaken. Especially in a stressful situation such as a police officer who may or may not have seen a gun in someone's hands might find him(her)self in.

In the 80's, a college student was shot by a police officer because he was running around with a Lazer Tag gun. The brightly colored plastic gun looked nothing at all like a real gun, but when the kid thought the officer was one of the players and pointed it at him, that was the end of it.

Do you really think your Automag looks less like a gun than that Lazer Tag gun did? How about the woman here in Illinois that was shot because the police officer mistook her cell phone for a gun?

The point is, anyone who carries around their paintball gun in the open is asking for trouble no matter what it looks like (and that's totally ignoring the safety issue... you can't accidentally fire a marker that's in a case).

I've had police officers ask me about my "lookalike" paintball gun. Most of them think it's the coolest thing... primarily because they never see it laying on the backseat of my car, for example.

I play primarily rec and scenario ball, and I've had too many people come up to me for a look at my gun and say "that's cool" for me to think that I'm hurting the "image" of the sport in any way. In fact, at a scenario game at CPX this year, my gun won the "coolest custom gun" contest. The second place marker was an absolutely gorgeous Angel. Apparently all the people who voted for my gun didn't think it was bad for paintball...

And on the subject of impacting the sport: "realistic" paintball guns are expensive. Those of us who like them spend a lot of money on paintball. Every dollar we spend supports paintball just as much as the dollars spent by those of you who live for speedball and tournaments. And that money is really the only support that will keep our sport alive... in all its forms.

Oh, and TRIAD... you said "buy it for practicality, not for looks." Your 'Mag is real nice... but is a totally chrome gun more practical than a grey/black one? How about that cool-looking foregrip and the custom rail? Do they work that much better than the standard ones, or are they mainly for looks? :)

Well, that's my 2 cents (and then some). We've been over this too many times for me to think anyone will change their minds, but maybe someone who hasn't already made up their mind will have something to think about.

Kenn Mikos

[zach rumchak]

wow i like it but i personally dont think i would buy it for 1200 dollars i would rather have a sfl cocker or emag

[AutomagRT1483]

So i can get my RT Pro to look like that then?? Hmmm, Interesting, Very Interesting.