Whats Up With The Extreme's Annodize? [Archive]

Cliffio

10-23-2002, 05:26 PM

whats up with the annodizing on some of those extremes in the cup pictures?

i mean a yellow to red fade and the breech is a totally different color of yellow? and toms extreme, the breech is about 4 shades darker??

why in the world would you take your newest, latest and greatest maker to the WOLRD CUP (only the biggest paintball display of the year) with cosmetic flaws? havent we already learned that people like flashy? they like flashy guns, flashy boxes, but yet we still make up some excuse to why the markers look the way they do. im not trying to flame agd or the extreme, im saying if your gonna bring you best, and try to compete with the angels and the cockers, and the others, why would you take your seconds?

just asking

Cliff

Cliffio

10-23-2002, 05:27 PM

not up to par, if you ask me

magman007

10-23-2002, 05:29 PM

well, sorry guys, im gunna catch hell for this, bot the olny extremes that have come out with a good anno scheme so far that i have noticed, are Clares, Manikes, PAuls, ANd Paintchecks... the anno is lookin pretty poor....

Sorry guys, but im Dissapointed, i would have never taken those markers to the cup...

THe body heating up differently story to mee seems pretty made up... Different thicknesses? bull crap. If i can match my batterypack to my body rail in my basement, there is a problem if agd or pk cant match a breach to a body. I have no fade experience, but the thing that really matters is the dying process, and the time you leve it in the dye. For a good solid color, just let everything soak in the dye, until it cant soak up any more dye, then cure the metal, it isnt hard people!

rpm07

10-23-2002, 05:49 PM

I have to agree that does look bad. I remember someone that bought 1 of the ones at th IAO say someting about their gun and breech not matching. I hope they fix that. Before I get mine.

kutter

10-23-2002, 06:00 PM

Cliff, were you at the Cup or did you just see the pictures?

I saw most of the guns they had there and I can tell you that all of the ones I saw looked flawless.

I may not have seen the ones you are refering to or the pictures may have changed the appearance, but they all looked good to me.

Cliffio

10-23-2002, 06:03 PM

i can see the pictures. can you not? it does not matter if i saw the markers or not, a picture is worth a thousand words, if they show up in the picture, id double up on them showing up in person, its a poor excuse to say its the pictures

Cliffio

10-23-2002, 06:09 PM

ALSO, if i can see it every other person can see it, these cup pics will be passed around every website for the next X months, for everyone LIKE me who didnt go to cup, what do you think they will say? do you think they will say, "well agd said it was pk's fault" or do you think they will say, "look at how mad this annodize is"

just something to keep in mind

Cliff

magman007

10-23-2002, 06:11 PM

for refference, i have seen tom,s up close when i took an agd tour, the breach and battery pack dont match well at all....

Kevmaster

10-23-2002, 06:26 PM

yeh. all the Extremes i saw at the IAO(in persoN) had bad breeches

magman007

10-23-2002, 07:16 PM

yea, and this is some one's problem, and it needs to be fixed. Why olny these extremes? why not sfl's? or regualr extremes?

How can thickness be an issue? if it were, then the thin parts by the valve would be off color also...

Rooster

10-23-2002, 07:27 PM

Its most likely becuase of two differnt processes being used to make the different parts, and the anno bringing that out. Ultimately, if it takes alot of money to make two very similar peices that will anno perfectly, the company has to ask is the extra money worth the shiney matching. Since Tom is not stupid, I think we have arrived at an answer to this question.

rpm07

10-23-2002, 07:53 PM

Well I doubt that is Toms answer to leave them like that.
And if it is I dont think I will spend $1300.00 for it.
As for it costing to much money to make it match I find it not likly. There are alot of low end guns that have matching parts.

BenD

10-23-2002, 08:04 PM

you might as well of just painted it on with a brush with that quality :eek:

PaintballSucka

10-23-2002, 09:56 PM

maybe someone is outta fashion.

snakestang

10-23-2002, 10:11 PM

I am not 100% on this but I am going to say that the markers coming from the UK were not done by PK. It really bothers me to see these breeches coming out looking so bad. As for showing them at World Cup, well I dont really know what to say about that other then, they really should have been perfect.

My best friend has a blue Extreme from IAO and the breeches are close but still not up to par.

My question is this. Why are the Extremes in the UK perfect and PK's are not? Mine is flawless in every way. As a matter of fact the warp breech was annoed well after the marker and it matches PERFECTLY.

Maybe they need to start using another anno source.

AGD

10-23-2002, 11:49 PM

Cliffo, buddy,

FYI the blue extreme is mine BECAUSE the parts don't match well, that's why we are not doing blues any more.

As far as that Tequila goes your picture doesn't do it justice. It was sooooo bad a guy paid 2000 dollars cash for it yesterday. I am pretty confident in saying it was the most expensive gun sold at WC so far.

AGD

rudy

10-24-2002, 02:53 AM

tom just cause a guy paid alot for it doesnt mean its right i mean for all we know the guy liked the way it was a different color. I cannot say cause i have not seen them for sure that they dont match, but you still had to take them to WC cause they were gonna sell there but you should call pk and say hey no excuses whatever is wrong fix it. they are very right in that i have seen hundreds of pics of angels with rotobreech and other guns and no one has that problem. i i know for sure many many people who preordered are gonna be dissatisfied if they show up like that many wont return them but they arent gonna be real happy about it.

rudy

10-24-2002, 03:07 AM

btw why did that guy pay 2000 did it come with a full setup? like 3 breeches warp halo flatline 4500 and what not?
it would be interestign to see what the most expensive gun sold at the cup was, although i think some of the custom ir3s that are up in the 1700$ range would be more if they had a AIR tank and matchign barrel kit. also do people get to pick thier valve serial number of the ones present? that would be kinda a cool thing to do since nags are one of the few guns where the serial number is not on the body

P4ULuk

10-24-2002, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by snakestang
I am not 100% on this but I am going to say that the markers coming from the UK were not done by PK. It really bothers me to see these breeches coming out looking so bad. As for showing them at World Cup, well I dont really know what to say about that other then, they really should have been perfect.

My best friend has a blue Extreme from IAO and the breeches are close but still not up to par.

My question is this. Why are the Extremes in the UK perfect and PK's are not? Mine is flawless in every way. As a matter of fact the warp breech was annoed well after the marker and it matches PERFECTLY.

Maybe they need to start using another anno source.

Glad you like her :D
You're correct the anno on the UK markers was not done at PK.

Paul.
p.s. Snakestang has the prettiest Extreme around!! ;)

Load SM5

10-24-2002, 07:45 AM

Argh, you did sell her Paul. What are you shooting now?

P4ULuk

10-24-2002, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Load SM5
Argh, you did sell her Paul. What are you shooting now?

An AKA Viking. Anno doesn't match on that but I don't care lol :D :D :D

Paul.

Shirow

10-24-2002, 08:19 AM

how could you sell that beauty :0

shartley

10-24-2002, 08:30 AM

I can’t help but agree… the price someone paid for something is no indication of the quality or even how good it looked. Look at how much those postage stamps with the upside down airplane go for….. but you would not say they sell at higher prices because they are “good”… it is because they are flawed. Good job in selling a flawed marker at a higher price than your normal prices… but that only indicates the person’s desire to own it, NOT how good it actually was. ;)

Using that argument is like going to an art gallery….. “Hey that painting looks like crap!” “Well, it just sold for $375,000.” “I stand corrected, it looks GREAT!”

Sorry, I for one do not judge quality simply by the amount of money some fool paid for it. ;)

I also can’t help but agree that when you go to a major event you don’t bring anything less than your BEST. That is unless you bring a box of seconds to sell at REDUCED prices, but do not display them. You would sell these to folks who just can’t afford your “standard quality” ones.

Now, with all this said, I have not personally held any of these markers. From what I have seen in the picture though, I think folks have a strong case for worries. If this is the quality being put out, what happens if they slip a bit? Are these flukes? What is up?

I think most would be put more at ease if they simply heard that these are not typical and it was a mistake brining them (if that was the case), than excuses to cover up whether they were actually “as bad” as what it “looks” they are. I know I for one would not pay even $1000 for a marker that had such obvious flaws….. I would however buy it at a much reduced price (or take it FREE ;)) and redo it myself. :D It is a great marker either way!

SIDE NOTE: From the pictures posted of other Company’s markers there, I was not impressed with them either. They were nice, but just did not seem to affect me like those brought to last year’s event.

P4ULuk

10-24-2002, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Shirow
how could you sell that beauty :0

It was a hard decision to make but over all I'm happy with the choices I've made.

Paul.

Rooster

10-24-2002, 09:12 AM

"Well I doubt that is Toms answer to leave them like that.
And if it is I dont think I will spend $1300.00 for it.
As for it costing to much money to make it match I find it not likly. There are alot of low end guns that have matching parts."

The question is would you rather pay 1500 for a gun with perfectly matching anno, or 1300 for one that doesn't. Like I said, if it was something simple, it most likely would have been done.

vf-xx

10-24-2002, 09:27 AM

I think you guys are forgetting something. A picture is no substitute for seeing something in person. I'm inclined to beleive that that the Tequila fade breech actually matches.

Camera's can play some tricks on the eyes, Red eye anyone? Come on people, have we not taken enough pictures with flashes to realize that picts can be QUITE deciving?

It sounds like the blue one doesn't match, but Tom fixed that by not producing them, so where does that leave us? Geez, everyone is sooo critical these days. Whatever happened to function over form? I would think as mag owners that we would be used to this concept by now. That would be one of the reasons that we stayed with the dull grey body over a pretty cocker or something else eh?

hitech

10-24-2002, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by AGD
FYI the blue extreme is mine BECAUSE the parts don't match well...

Guys, Tom is admitting that this one is bad. It DOESN'T match.

Originally posted by AGD
As far as that Tequila goes your picture doesn't do it justice...

And this one DOES match, or at least the anno color is as intended. We can't judge the quality from the picture, or at least that is what Tom is saying. Can't we take him at his word?

Gijim

10-24-2002, 10:49 AM

You can only trust pictures so much, especially on the internet. I've ordered stuff that was quite different in color when I received it than what was displayed online, take every picture online with a grain of salt and you'll be much happier:)

FrAuStY

10-24-2002, 10:57 AM

Yes some cameras that have ICC (Internal Color Correction) will change parts of the picture's color to make "match" what it thinks it should be. In this case.. it was wrong. It could have been the angle in which the breech was shot from.. maybe the flash caused a birghter color and the camera darkened it "thinkin" it would be the right colors. Personally, I'd likr my extreme bare aluminum.. no anno. (I wanna polish the whole thing ;)

Jonesie

10-24-2002, 11:22 AM

OK, checkout out my example below...
http://www.jonesie.com/images/other/xmag.jpg

If you will notice, the top part of the breech DOES match, and the bottom part does not. This is due to the angle at which the picture was taken, I'm sure. I'd be willing to bet that in person, the breech does indeed match the rest of the anno.

Seems to me that the blame should fall on the photographer, rather than the finisher. Additionally, when I pulled the image into Photoshop, it was really grainy, leading me to believe that the image has been scaled down, or the camera was not top quality.

Now, from what I read of Tom's post, I understood it to mean that 'bad' actually means 'good' and that the picture was in fact poor quality. If I am wrong, I will admit that, but I think there might be a miscommunication here.

Later ~ Jonesie

magman007

10-24-2002, 11:33 AM

ok, then explain me this, why does the battery pack seem damaged? Also, why have i herd problems of extremes not being able to be annoed correctly? why were so many sent back to pk because they looked like crap?

Tom, by no way is this a personal attack, and i remember you saying that on the tour, that this would be yours because of such poor matching. But, if you were going to display one, even if it was your personal marker, wouldnt you display one that matches correctly?

Also, why are extremes for sale now any ways? why arent all the sfl's up and completely retrofitted? If a person purchases a marker first, shouldnt it be completed first?

I understand the pre order process, but when do we get ours?

jah871

10-24-2002, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by vf-xx
I think you guys are forgetting something. A picture is no substitute for seeing something in person. I'm inclined to beleive that that the Tequila fade breech actually matches.

Camera's can play some tricks on the eyes, Red eye anyone? Come on people, have we not taken enough pictures with flashes to realize that picts can be QUITE deciving?

i agree

Shirow

10-24-2002, 02:26 PM

Hell, as long as it worked, I'd take a black extreme with a pink breech - unless color has started affecting the performance of it :)

I understand where you guys are all coming from but it's not the end of the world that some people are making it out to be..

AGD

10-24-2002, 02:56 PM

I have to tell you I walked away from the computer really upset this morning because of this thread. The tequilla really did look fine in person and looked NOTHING like the pic.

There are a lot of parts to match on our gun compared to others and this is the shake out run for what color combos to use. We got ever color combo we could think of to try them out. A bunch did come out crappy and we sent them back for re-ano before the show. These guns are NOT FOR SALE and are going to special people involved with the company.

Of the 12 guns we have here only a couple look off. The silver and black fronts can't possibly look bad because the silver has no color and the blacks always match.

So, based on what we learned and what you have said here, you can forget about any other colors in the front besides silver and black. If you want something fancier buy a raw gun and get it done yourself, that way we are not resposible.

AGD

jah871

10-24-2002, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by AGD
So, based on what we learned and what you have said here, you can forget about any other colors in the front besides silver and black. If you want something fancier buy a raw gun and get it done yourself, that way we are not resposible.

AGD

Tom, I think you should keep making them in colors and not switch to just black and silver. I think many people will be disapointed with your decision, I know I will. Cliffio shouldn't have started this thread because you can NOT go by the pics. The flash could have cause the color to look different. I was at the IAO and you said at the doughnut orgy that the blue's were very hard to match up and I thought they looked very very good even though there were a few parts slightly different it color.

Dayspring

10-24-2002, 03:15 PM

I agree. Don't change your plans because of 4 or 5 people. Remember, you can please most of the people most of the time but not ALL of the people ALL of the time.

If they don't like it, then they don't get one in fancy colors. Fairly simple.

And for you guys complaining- quit boo-hooing. Are you getting an Extreme right now? NO. So what does it really matter to you? AGD will get the bugs out of the system. They always do.

Shirow

10-24-2002, 03:21 PM

I know, what bs..

'I was going to buy an Extreme, but now I won't because I saw some crappy photograph and the colors looked off.'

Then don't get one.. go buy a nice milled and annodized impulse instead :p I'll take an extreme, I'd like a nice fade on it - even if the breech does look off in a crummy photograph :)

shartley

10-24-2002, 03:25 PM

LOL Too darn funny…. Now those complaining about those “complaining” are worse than those who at first WERE complaining. LOL

Seems to me that the only personal insults are going one direction as well….

Come on folks, we are ALL entitled to our opinions and to state them without being called a dumbass or any other such names.

PLUS, Tom said “Based on what we learned and what you have said here”… that would indicate that those who mentioned a color problem are not THAT far off…. Otherwise why would Tom have said “what we learned”? If it was ALL just lighting and bad photography there would have been NO reason to make that decision. It was a combination of BOTH what they found out themselves AND what was stated here… not just one.

I think some folks need to cool down and knock off the insults….. Like I said, if it wasn’t a real issue, Tom would not have posted what he did. I can’t see him changing their plans for just a couple complaining people (even if one of them was ME.. which it wasn't ;)), and more so if there was not actually a problem. At least I would not...... And if that IS what is truly happening... WHAT?!?! LOL Come on....
:rolleyes:

Thordic

10-24-2002, 03:37 PM

I think the answer is find a better place than PK for anno jobs.

The ones from Europe look amazing, why is their anno so good while PK's is poop?

FrAuStY

10-24-2002, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by AGD
I have to tell you I walked away from the computer really upset this morning because of this thread. The tequilla really did look fine in person and looked NOTHING like the pic.

There are a lot of parts to match on our gun compared to others and this is the shake out run for what color combos to use. We got ever color combo we could think of to try them out. A bunch did come out crappy and we sent them back for re-ano before the show. These guns are NOT FOR SALE and are going to special people involved with the company.

Of the 12 guns we have here only a couple look off. The silver and black fronts can't possibly look bad because the silver has no color and the blacks always match.

So, based on what we learned and what you have said here, you can forget about any other colors in the front besides silver and black. If you want something fancier buy a raw gun and get it done yourself, that way we are not resposible.

AGD

Yet another example of "a few bad apples spoil the bushell". Tom... you haven't met me yet.. but you will at SC AO DAY :) And I'd like to say on behalf of all the Ao'ers here who know that the guns looked fine or just don't care, and are not passing judgment on them based on some snapshot pics. I couldn't believe what I read. This isn't an *** kissing post, more of an empathy post. I don't understand why a couple of people have to go and make false claims WITHOUT EVEN HAVING THE MARKER IN THEIR HANDS!

From the first pictures I figured it was the color correction on the camera as I know a company wouldn't dare go to an INTERNATIONAL event with 2nd notch products on hand and expect it to be accepted by the players and others! C'mon people.. cut Tom some slack! He's not stupid (look at the design) First off these were kinda rushed, and to have even 15 flawed out of the first 150 is not bad.... and I very seriously doubt if there's that many.

Also.. it's the first batch of a NEW design... things are gonna happen, and ANNO is the last thing I'd be worried about. If anything do as Tom suggested.. get a bare aluminum one and get it anno'd yourself if you're that ANAL about looks. I'd reallylike a bare one so I could polish it up all nice and shiny =) MMMmmm.. Anyway.. I had to get that off my chest. Too many people think everythings gonna be perfect, should I say want it perfect. Well sorry to break it to ya. NOTHING IN LIFE is perfect.

Tom,
Sorry they pissed ya off. You had good reason to be pissed off. I know I would have been had I just spent $500,000 on guns that haven't sold, and people start flmaing them over some "Amatuer" pictures of them. What ever you do.. please.. re-consider as said before.. You can satisfy most of the people most of the time, but you can NEVER satisfy ALL of the people ALL of the time. Please keep the colors! They're Soooo puuurrrty.

Peace you guys..and girls ;)

magman007

10-24-2002, 03:56 PM

Tom, let me be the first to appologize, it was not a personal attack on you or your company, im also sorry for using the tour you took your personal time to give me as an example. THat was low of me, and id like to express my deepest appologies. PLease forgive me, my father and i really appreciated everything agd had done for us. You even took the time to try and get us a behind the scenes look at the field museaum, To bad Dennis Wasnt there.

With that said, here are some more cares and concerns i have. First off, I would like to know, who is doing the anno? IT isnt chicago Anno is it? they were the ones who messed up alot of the AKA excaliburs.

As for those complaining, STOP IT. THe anno is not up to par on some of them. Lok at the black to blue, the breach appears to be too black for the rest of the marker, most others concour.

Form over function? BITE THAT! Your buying the extreme for form! thats a week excuse. And if i pay thoudsand some odd dolars, i want my freeking anno to match.

What if i want fancy colors? what if i do? Personally i dont, but having all black to something fades, or silver to something fades is stupid, im sorry. PEople want fancy colors, and you need to supply them. Dont do this because we were complaining tom, we were looking for answers, more to what problems yuor having,m and how can you fix them.

Go for the full fancy colors tom, just find a better anno place to do it. And to clear this up, I had found out that it is 99% sure there not using PK selectives. IM sorry for using that name in refference.

As for this topic, well id like to hear exactally what the problem is. THe heating thing is bs asfar as im concerned. The dying is done cold any ways. I want to know the problewms, and the solutions..

As for who posted that im not getting an extreme, well i had one on pre orderm and i may still have it, if the person i traded the pre order to isnt happy. I may not get my sfl in a week. IM very concerned. THat is why im pressing to find out the problems and solutions.

THank you for your time. Im very sorry tom, I should have never used the tour info against you, that just inst cool.

Your loyal customer- Bill Badnaruk

PS i will have the chile paintball videos to you shortly

Obey

10-24-2002, 04:00 PM

Well regardless of the color flaws in some of the X-Mags at the World Cup, I think these markers are stellar. Some of you worry to much about the looks of the colors then you do with the actual performance of the marker it's self. I do agree that if you were to spend 1300 it should be perfect, however, note what Tom stated, "They are not for sale". Some of the posts should of just asked, why are the colors of the breeches so much different? short and polite.

shartley

10-24-2002, 04:13 PM

I will say it again…. I think EVERYONE needs to take a major chill pill.. and yes, that includes Tom.

If in fact there was NO problem, but that of an amateur photographer, then why on earth would anyone NOT continue to make the colored markers? That would be darn right silly. And if Tom is pissed because of comments made directly because of a crappy picture, but the picture was WRONG, and he decided NOT to make colored markers because of that…. That is not the fault of those complaining about the color…. It is TOM’S fault!

I am tired of hearing how “a few bad apples”… BS…. What president of a company worth their salt would change design plans because of a few people on an online forum complaining about something that isn’t even a valid issue? There is either more to this than what is being said, there IS an issue with State Side Anno production, OR Tom is having a hissy fit. And any way you slice it, it never comes back on those who may have complained about it. We have seen lots more people complain about WORSE things and Tom went right on with it anyway… why should this be any different?

You people confuse the crap out of me. Open your darn eyes.

Automaggin2

10-24-2002, 04:32 PM

When i first looked at the photos, i did think hmmm, that anno does look a little off. then i noticed the top of the break matching, so i took it into photoshop 7 and fooled around with some levels and what not, and the mismatching color is def. from the angle the picture was taking at. The way the flash reflects off the anno alters the color. The breech is higher then any other part of the gun, so it doesnt look like it matches because of the way the light reflects off.

Cliffio

10-24-2002, 04:33 PM

a few things, i can now see how fast everyone turns on their own opinion when tom throws down, anyways, SOME of the point has been overlooked but thats fine, ok lets complain about the picture, blah blah its bad, but i have news for everyone, these pics are going to be thrown around for the next 6 months or whatever, i think someone should get some decent pics if the marker does not look this way. but anyways......

Originally posted by jah871
Cliffio shouldn't have started this thread....

real cool, he drops a bomb and you throw my name down, alot of people agreed with me, even if it wasnt about the picture but the IDEA of the picture, and there are those markers that are not perfect. throw my name in the gutter, thats fine, you can think that i hate agd or think what you want, but im just merely looking at the photos how everyone else will look at them, do you think half of the people over at pbc or pbn are gonna look at that pic and say, "you know what, thats gotta be the flash" NO, i dont

Originally posted by Shirow
I was going to buy an Extreme, but now I won't because I saw some crappy photograph and the colors looked off.'

Then don't get one.. go buy a nice milled and annodized impulse instead :p I'll take an extreme, I'd like a nice fade on it - even if the breech does look off in a crummy photograph

you know thats part of the reason agd and every other dealer is in such a hurry FOR cup, because everyone debuts new stuff, because they want to sell their guns, and for the people not at cup pics are the only way to see the stuff, you all act like it isnt a big deal but it is, the extremes are a high end marker and for you to act like its no big deal if someone turns it down for an impulse if false, i KNOW AGD doesnt want that... so to me, you post made no sence

once again shartly is the light in the tunnel, but anyways, guys dont missunderstand i love the website, this has nothing to do with any attack on agd products, the extreme is a REAL nice milling shape, just that the milling may not be as hot as it could be, i was not, nor am not flaming any gun.

but the bottom line is 100% of the people agd is TRYING to get to with this new gun is all about function AND looks, and for alot of people that didnt go to cup, these kinds of pics are the only way they will get to see such a gun. you have to think outside of our little AO world, i bet if i posted this pic over at pbc or pnb you would have MAD people flaming it, you cant ignore the fact that people will see a bad anno, not a bad picture

tom, on a side note, i love what you have done with the milling, and the anno patterns that ive seen look hot, i know that silver and purple was REAL nice, i dont mean to discourage you, i was just trying to actually ask a question, more than start a flame war, im sorry if i did offend you, that was not my intent, nor am i saying what i said was wrong because i dont feel it was

Cliff

snakestang

10-24-2002, 04:38 PM

I have seen the blue anno and I for one am sure glad they are not going to continue with that color. It looks nice but it just was not up to par. I have also seen plenty of pictures verifying that certain colors just dont match! This is not some kind of dream, its for real.

I personally dont care if they match or not, mine does and thats all that matters to me. A team member does still however have a purple c+c on pre-order and he has expressed valid concerns about the anno. I am not complaining or *****ing about this, I just want to know why some work out and some dont and what can be done to make them perfect.

For those of you out there that think you are going to pay 1400+dollars for an Extreme that has bad anno, you are kidding me right? Thats like going to your car dealership and telling them that you want the one with the messed up paint and you are still going to pay the same price as a perfectly good one because you dont want to wait for them to fix it. Thats rediculous.

Enough said! Just stick to certain colors that you know work or sell them as raw bodies...

G-Rock

10-24-2002, 04:52 PM

First let me say a flash from a camera will change the hues of color drastically, especially at a close range.

As for the color thing, I really do not care about the different shades. I got to mess with the blue one at the Chicago WPF event when Tom let me see it. I really didn't notice the shades differences till I got it in my hands and he pointed out, could have been because I was holding Tom's marker.

And on that note, Tom you can send me any color you want, I will be happy (but if you could include a Black to Pewter fade in the order going to Wolf Hill I would appreciate it)

Chris Geiger

magman007

10-24-2002, 05:08 PM

thank you again Sam, And tom om sorry again. I was also trying to express my concerns. MAinly because my dream marker is riding on an extreme, that being the sfl. The mill pattern imho, and Simon knows i feel this way, is better. But thats no matter. IM just worried. I was not trying to fuel any one, and if i did i am sorry. If you decide not to do crazy colors because of me, and a few other people, then well, i amy have to just go live in a hole. I dont believe i said any thing negative, but if it was conveyed tht way, than im quite sorry. PLEase accept my humble appologies.. and done be affraid if you here from jon there is a guy from chile weanting to talk to you on my cellphone.... Im heavilly considering paying the high fee to appoligize to you personally, i feel really bad i hurt your feelings. Maybe i will get to talk to you tomorow.....

AGD

10-24-2002, 05:30 PM

Ok guys I am much better now. Being down here with little sleep and a constant barrage of people can drive anyone nuts.

I agree that you guys have a right to demand top notch quality for a top notch price. FYI these are not PK fades, they take 6 weeks and we would have had none for WC. They were done by A+ anodizing which is Art Demarko who does them by hand one at a time.

We have many more pieces to match than the average marker. Because they are a combination of extruded and machined aluminum parts they are very hard to match. In order to give you the quality you expect we have a limited range of options if we are not going to throw them away every batch.

Because of this we will not even try to match the front battery and mainbody so that leaves two options, silver or black in front. The rear is basically two pieces, the body and the frame so that is an easier matching job.

I will take good pics of the guns tommorow and post them so you can see whats up.

AGD

shartley

10-24-2002, 05:36 PM

Good to have you back Tom. ;) :)

snakestang

10-24-2002, 05:54 PM

Now thats the answer we have all been waiting for! Glad to hear you got some sleep.

Thank you for the informative answers.

Chris

BenD

10-24-2002, 06:02 PM

athomas

10-24-2002, 06:26 PM

I wish for blue. I, for one, would like to get just a raw body, frame and battery pack to annodize in my own color (pewter blue). I guess I have a while to wait until all the original orders are filled before they start selling body kits.

Raptor3359

10-24-2002, 06:42 PM

i dont know about u guys, but i think Tom's extreme looks amazing! :eek:

Jonesie

10-24-2002, 07:09 PM

Any chances that you will sell the 'flawed' units at a close out price? I'm in the market for an E-Mag and a flawed Extreme would suit me just fine!

PS - This isn't a beggin' or rear-kissing post, more like a serious inquiry...

Thanks ~ Jonesie

jah871

10-24-2002, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Cliffio
real cool, he drops a bomb and you throw my name down, alot of people agreed with me, even if it wasnt about the picture but the IDEA of the picture, and there are those markers that are not perfect. throw my name in the gutter, thats fine, you can think that i hate agd or think what you want, but im just merely looking at the photos how everyone else will look at them, do you think half of the people over at pbc or pbn are gonna look at that pic and say, "you know what, thats gotta be the flash" NO, i dont Cliff

You were making assumptions about the anno job without even knowing if it was really off. If you were down at the World Cup and saw the xtremes in person it wouldn't be bad at all. I take Tom's word for them looking great in person because he said that the blue was really bad and i thought they looked very good at the IAO. I understand once the people on PBC or PBN see the pics they will think it doesn't match but once AGD gets them into production i'm sure that paintballgear.com or any other site will have much better pics of the gun up on their site.

Also I apologize for throwing your name in my last post and blaming you. Although it made me mad that just because a handfull of people, who havent even seen the xtreme's anno in person, were complaining about it not matching and now Tom is considering not even having them annoed in anything except black or silver.

Kevmaster

10-24-2002, 08:09 PM

just to show you how easy our eyes are tricked:

http://www-bcs.mit.edu/people/adelson/images/checkershadow-AB.jpg

yes, i know. i didnt believe it at first, but it is true A = B. do it in photoshop!

Cliffio

10-24-2002, 08:11 PM

that was posted a few weeks ago, clever:rolleyes:

rudy

10-24-2002, 08:23 PM

every one has there own idea of whats ok and whats not but the main point of the extreme is the mass market, most of the people saying it ok also probably say the emag is ok, you people are great i work in retail and i wor with people like you every day. but for every one of you there is another 10 guys that wont buy it if it isnt perfect and cirtainly not for 1300$ , agd is makign the right move in limiting the colors to what they can easily match. I was just trying to help paintball is nothing like it used to be when i started if you wanted any color other then black you had to have it done your self with most guns, now days the entire burden seems to fall on the company which doesnt make it easy this is another reason production is gonna be low you. what they should do is get a base model into full production first make it black and start selling cheaper then work on the rest.

yeahthatsme

10-24-2002, 08:54 PM

what about powder coating?

magman007

10-24-2002, 09:15 PM

what about powdrcoating? you say this after tom works long and hard to get an annodizeable aluminum body out and you say waht about powdercoating? WHY? we can do that already, thats old news, and no one wants it! Sure you can powdercoat it, but that would be pointless.

As for jah, we know some are out ao whack, and personally, if i were marketing a marker, even if it was my personal one on display, i would have it matching perfectly. Thats just me, but if it is for people to see, i would have it out. As for every one crying, then oh freekin well. We expressed our opinions, let us. Dont get on us for that. IT isnt cool. My opinions were cares, i have my sfl riding on these, i already stated that. ALso tom provided us wth a logical explination for the colors. LIVE WITH IT NOW!

Lets just forget it nnow ok?

einhander619

10-24-2002, 09:39 PM

I think that selling the flawed or test units here on AO would be a great idea. I'll buy one for sure, anyone want a kidney:P? So what if the front color is only black or silver, that's still more than on a GZ. Besides, if Ihad one, noone would notice, they'd be too busy wiping my paint off thei goggles!

I believe the reason emotion is running so high on this thread is that everyone wants this marker to succeed so bad they're gonna explode. Rightly so, it's hella tight! We also know how ignorant and fickle the rest of the paintball world can be, and all of a sudden something like sketchy anno jobs on the first dozen ot so seems like a big deal. Don't freak out, AGD is as public with their bad stuff as their good, you know a lot of bad crap goes on at WDP, but they won't tell anyone about it. You lucky few with Xmags, don't just shoot 'em, rock 'em! Get people stoked about them and they'll come around.

P4ULuk

10-25-2002, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by einhander619
You lucky few with Xmags, don't just shoot 'em, rock 'em! Get people stoked about them and they'll come around.

Sounds about right, hell I even shared the love stateside eh 'stang :D :D

Paul.

luke

10-25-2002, 07:26 AM

"Because they are a combination of extruded and machined aluminum parts they are very hard to match."

Tom,
Could the problem be fixed if all the parts were polished before they were anodized?

snakestang

10-25-2002, 07:36 AM

WooHoo I even have a pic in someone else' sig! I have made it big time now. You bet I will be showing it off! Thanks again Paul.

Jonesie

10-25-2002, 07:41 AM

There's something I feel you are missing, Cliff. Any average Joe can go down to CUP and take pictures, just like the pic of the Angel stuck in the ground "because it failed and was thrown in anger" or whatever. That same average Joe can then go and freely post those pictures on the internet, the internet is kinda funny in that "Freedom of Speech/Press" kinda way.

Now, like any good-looking celebrity will tell you, removing pictures from the internet is like trying to get pee out of a swimming pool - it's darn near impossible.

I fail to see why everyone is jumping on AGD about this picture. From what I've read, Tom kept the blue and decided not to produce them because the colors were too difficult. I have also gathered that the yellow DID look fine, that it was a bad picture. How is it Tom's fault that someone didn't know what they were doing when they took the pic?

Perhaps AGD sould copyright the likeness of the Extreme and sue any/everyone that takes, post, draws, or dreams pictures of the Extreme.

I find this thread to be inflamitory and over-critical. Not to mention ridiculous.

Jonesie

shartley

10-25-2002, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Jonesie
There's something I feel you are missing, Cliff. Any average Joe can go down to CUP and take pictures, just like the pic of the Angel stuck in the ground "because it failed and was thrown in anger" or whatever. That same average Joe can then go and freely post those pictures on the internet, the internet is kinda funny in that "Freedom of Speech/Press" kinda way.

Now, like any good-looking celebrity will tell you, removing pictures from the internet is like trying to get pee out of a swimming pool - it's darn near impossible.

I fail to see why everyone is jumping on AGD about this picture. From what I've read, Tom kept the blue and decided not to produce them because the colors were too difficult. I have also gathered that the yellow DID look fine, that it was a bad picture. How is it Tom's fault that someone didn't know what they were doing when they took the pic?

Perhaps AGD sould copyright the likeness of the Extreme and sue any/everyone that takes, post, draws, or dreams pictures of the Extreme.

I find this thread to be inflamitory and over-critical. Not to mention ridiculous.

Jonesie
If this was football you would just be assessed a “late hit”. You only state previously posted comments, and AFTER the issues you want to comment on have been ENDED. There IS a problem with the colors. Maybe not in that poorly taken photograph, but with others. You either did not read the whole thread, or you skipped a great deal of it.

Please folks, before commenting, read the whole thread. Often times you will see that the issues you feel so strongly about chastising folks for are outdated by the time you post them…. And that makes the post(s) look silly. Nothing like beating a dead horse…..

(Not going to comment on the Freedom of Speech and Copyright arguments…. LOL But they did make me smile. We all need a good stretch in the morning. ;))

shartley

10-25-2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by RogueFactor
Shartley:

Jonesie skipped the posts that were "diarrhea of the keyboard". Most of it was propogation from the post whores of the board and a waste of time to read.

But he has a right to voice his opinion and $.02....even if it is a "late hit".

The rest of what you said I will just ignore....it holds little weight until they make you a moderator.
LOLROF What a bunch of.... well, nothing. LOL

And what the heck did I say that would even come close to being a "Moderator" issue? LOL You are too funny.

I am sure you mean well, but you sure as heck lost me with whatever you were attempting to convey. ;) You did a good job of insulting those who posted in this thread though (on BOTH sides)…. Diarrhea of the keyboard and post whores? LOL And if it was a total waste of time, I invite you NOT to read it next time. ;)

But thank you for your opinions….

(Not to mention my comments were directly to him, but you must think he can not speak for himself? ;))

(ADDED: But your post should not surprise me since earlier you called people dumbasses as well. I guess that is what you think of people who don’t agree with you, or your opinions? Does that show the respect you have for people, or the class which you yourself have, or don’t have? But hey, no problem though, right? After all I am not a Moderator. LOL Please don't try to start crap with me. My post was not flaming him, nor insulting in any way.. unlike YOUR posts. If you feel the need to tell me something "personal" from this point on, please send me a PM.

Obey

10-25-2002, 03:11 PM

This pic was taken from RobAGD's post on the World Cup thread. It's supposed to be silver to blue fade but it looks gold. I'll explain why.

http://www.automags.org/~RobAGD/wc-2k2/silver-blue.jpg

The Tequila Sunrise X-mag and the Silver-to-Blue (yes, it's Silver) had an odd color breech and whatnot because of light refraction. The tent that AGD is in is a huge white tent, but to better display the rest of the mags (and quite possibly for some more shade) they have a large yellow cloth or tarp behind their set up (see pic)

http://www.automags.org/~RobAGD/wc-2k2/havoc-capo.jpg

Take anyone of the X-mags into pure white light or sunlight and you will see the true color of the X-mag. Do not judge the X-mag from a pic. I have been to the World cup and Tom's X-mag was the only one with an odd color breech.