Level 10 Pressure

[Stupi]

I'm wondering what everyone is using for air systems on their Level 10'd Mags. Today was the worst day out on the field for me, ever. It started when I thought I lost the ASA/Quick-Release adapter for my gun, for my remote (I found it in my bag, in a box when I got home). Then I found that my 3000/68 wasn't able to keep up with the Mag. I could shoot about 3 times, then get bolt stick, until reg recharged the gun... that was until the tank commited suicide. All of a sudden the tank started spraying air out of the reg, I called myself out and walked in. The field I'm at was cool enough to use my tank as collateral, and use theirs for the day. They have small 3000 PSI Crossfire, and it'd seem to be fine whenever I dry fired off field, but soon as I hit the field, it would only fire like 1 out of every 8 trigger pulls. I couldn't tell if the lvl 10 was being extra sensitive, or if I was running out of air. At the end of the day, when it was rare to get a shot per trigger pull, I was down to about 900 PSI. It's most likely a level 10 install problem on my part, that just needs more tuning, but what is everyone using for air systems, and how do they seem to keep up with your gun (how fast are you shooting)... today sucked.

[Severe]

I'm not sure this will help or not. I'm definitely not a Level 10 expert but I got mine running easily enough.

When you changed tanks, did you try increasing the pressure until the marker would fire every trigger pull? If your previous tank was in it's death throws it's a good chance it wasn't putting out good pressure.

Try cranking up your velocity and see if you can get the marker to fire consistantly.

Btw, I use a crossfire 68/4500 high pressure tank and it works great with my Lvl10. But I did have to turn my velocity considerably to get it to fire correctly.

Good luck.

[Stupi]

It's an older ACI Bulldog that I've had for a while. I'm suspecting the reg just isn't able to keep up. I had it adjusted to do about 850 PSI out, but after like 3-4 shots pressure would drop below 500 and the gun wouldn't be able to fire. I can't turn the velocity up on the gun, it was shooting about 270, on a field that limits to 280. I'm ordering a 68/4500 Crossfire today if my call to the paintball store tells my something about the Bulldog I left with them. I just spent the $25 for a hydro on it last week too :(

[Smokee_2_7]

I had an older ACI bulldog myself, and It died in the same way that you're describing. The problem with the reg turned out to be that there was a micro-scale crack somewhere in the reg parts. (o-ring rebuilds DID NOT fix it) the symptoms were the *boom* pop of the Low pressure burst disk blowing, and the Low pressure gauge popping.

ACI has pretty much no customer service on their tanks. When this happened to mine, it was less than 2 years old. I called them and they told me that they didnt have any waranty service on the product. ACI reffered me to another paintball shop that did their 'repair' work for them. The fix for the tank cost me about 70 bux.

4 months later, same thing happened again. I jsut got rid of the tank.

The crappy recharge is a usually a symtom of dirt in the reg (not using a fill nipple cover. . . . . )


The inconsistent firing that you continued to experience when you switched tanks was due to a different (probably lower ) output pressrure from the new tank. I have a feeling that even if the output on the bulldog SAID 850, i wouldnt believe it. The fix was to crank up your velocity more until it fires. You may have had to switch to a smaller spring if you couldnt get it to fire before it started leaking out the back of the reg.

FYI,

Im now using a crossfire 45/45 on my levl 10 retromags, with EXCELLENT results. I had the same problems with crappy recharge from my flatlines EVEN after a trip to AGD, and another FULL rebuild and cleaning from me.



Carl

[Stupi]

Wow, awesome, thanks for the help. It was wierd though, the reg seemed to be off when I went up to fill at the beginning of the day. It seemed like I needed about 500 PSI when the guy filling said I only needed 200. But I kept cranking up the output because the needled kept dropping over the course of a game (I was playing with an allen wrench in my hand it got so bad). Eventually I screwed in the tank, and the air shot out the allen screw part of the reg. Confused the hell outta me. Like I said before I borrowed a field tank (they happen to use Nitro on their rentals, pretty cool eh?). The tank worked fine dry firing, but soon as I hit the field, with paint, it choked like crazy. I walked off the field about 6 times that day because of air/level 10/who knows what problems. I got tagged about 3 times. Right now, for me, Level 10 is more trouble than it's worth :( I have some shims in the mail from AGD, I'm hoping that'll fix the stick/extra sensitivity. I'm running on the long spring, and 1.5/1 carrier, and 2 shims ( I lost the other 2).

[Dayspring]

My first suggestion is to move to a bigger carrier. It sounds like it's too tight and you can't fire reliably. Second, try moving to the middle spring. The longer the spring, the more pressue is required to overcome the spring holding the bolt back.

[Smokee_2_7]

the shims control where in the cycle the bolt vents. You probably dont need anymore than 2.- - -adding more will not fix your problems with the 'extra sensitivity'.

Here's what WILL fix the problem.

you said that you were using the "1.5/1" carrier. . . which one is it?

Only one of them could be the "loosest without leaking".

Also, drop down to the middle spring. It is fine on paint. Going with the longest spring will give you the "eaisest on paint"( i.e. MOST sensitive setting) but it looks like you have it set up SO sensitive that the resistance of a paintball sitting in the breach will make lvl 10 kick in and vent. This idea makes sense because it would fire fine with NO resistance (i.e. dry fire) but misfires and re-cocks with paint in the breach. the reason this occured with the rental tank and not with the other is because the output pressure from the rental tank was lower. like i said. . Im betting that the output from the ACI was higher than what you thought it was (850). OR, if the ACI really was putting out at 850, the rental was putting out at 800. lower pressure into the gun results in lower pressure behind the bolt= harder for bolt pressure to overcome spring tension= the gun dosen't fire reliably.



Also, going down to the middle spring will make the gun a bit more gas efficient, as it requires LESS air behind the bolt to overcome the tension of the spring. (i have used the middle spring in all my lvl 10 installations, and no chops yet at all. )

So, in conclusion,

1. Figure out which carrier it is: 1.5 OR 1- - -go with the largest one that does not leak.
2. put a drop of oil on the carrier o-ring when you install it into the carrier.
3. Install the middle (cut) spring, with the cut end towards the bolt.
4. Leave the shims with what you have in there right
now.(2)
4. drop about 4-5 drops of oil into your asa or airline, gas it up, and fire w/o the barrel about 30 times. (remember, be prepared to adjust your velocity a good bit for it to fire reliably.)

5. get a new air system, or at least test it with an airsystem that works. one of the ones from the field should be fine.



We're all kinda new to the level 10 stuff. Although every one's installation case is slightly different, there are definitly some "common" mishaps that are emerging. This dosn't mean the level 10 is more trouble than its worth, it just means that you havent figured out exactly HOW it works, so you can get it working right. Ive done 3 successful installations to date, and I learn a little bit more each time. So, just hang in there. Everything will work out.


Let me know how things go when you set it up as I said above.

Carl

[hitech]

I'm using a Flatline 68/3000. NO problems. I have my input pressure down to almost 600 psi. You need to have about 20 fps between when the marker will just start to fire and your target velocity. If the velocity it first starts to fire is too high, switch to the next smaller spring.

[Stupi]

When I showed up on Sunday to play I was using the middle spring. But I was getting bolt stick you could call it. Bolt would come forward, and stop. SO I'd have to turn powerfeed off, pop off barrel, stick my finger in and push the bolt back. Did that like 3 times a game until I put in the big spring. I put it in between games, and I no longer had that problem. Now I'm running in to the "sensitivity" problem I guess you could call it. As far as carriers go, I switch between 1 and 1.5 almost religously. Sometimes one works. The next day I gas it up and have a leak down the body, so I throw in the 1, and it's all better. But then I drop down to 1.5 cause it seems too tight, and it works. As far as oil goes, I oil the carrier and the ASA before I play and after I play.

[hitech]

First, what is your target velocity (what do you want to chrono at)?

Second, with the 1.0 carrier and the largest spring turn the velocity down until it will not shoot. The turn it up slightly until it will fire. Chrono that. What is it?

Third, take out ALL the shims and put the 1.5 carrier back up and gas it up. Does it leak?

Also, KC Trouble Free oil will help some.

[Stupi]

Where I was Sunday, soon as I dropped in the large spring, and gassed up and turned up velocity, I was shooting at about 265/270. The max on the field I play at is 280 so I happily left it where it was and headed back to the game.