Why does everyone say Cockers shoot futher.

[hostage]

Okay if you have two identical objects same mass and same size. You then accelerate it up to 300fps. So both are going the same fps Mass x Acceleration = Momintum. They have the same momintum too. I am curious why people would say the cocker shoot futher? If all varibles were identical except that marker, and the barrels were the same too how would it go futher? I haven't taken Phsyics in 3 years.
-Hostage

[shartley]

nahhh.... I will not say it no matter how much you all pay me...... :p

[oldsoldier]

say it...SAY IT!!!!!

[personman]

Elves? :D

[magman007]

http://www.automags.org/forums/images/top_search.gif


ok, any ways, this is prolly the most discussed thing on ao...

[TippmannMan]

ok my take on this subject. you mentioned objects having the same mass and size and shooting the same FPS. first of all there is more to the gun than simply adjusting the FPS. and lets not forget air resistance and friction which also have a place in this little debate :P. next you add the comment what if the everything were the same except the gun. which is basically saying what if the two guns being compared were the same gun with a different body. and that question is obvious in saying that both guns would shoot the same. just leave the question as "why do people say the autococker shoots farther" :) and yes im also curious about this i seem to think range and accuracy when i think of autocockers

[dansim]

:D

[shartley]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52805

That is just one of the latest threads (of MANY) dealing with this topic. I hope this helps.. but somehow I don't think it will since most of the times I provide these links, folks ignore them and still post their ideas.... although it has all been discussed before. ;)

(HeeHee... I STILL didn't say it. :D)

[hostage]

it is closed bolt, but still, if we take all the enviromental varibles are the same except the makers themselves then they should have the same distance since the velocity is messured when it comes out of the barrel.
-Doron

[hostage]

hmm...Well i did a search and found nothing on this subject...I think I will get with some friends 3 mags 3 cockers and 3 other random guns, I will use the 3 random guns as controls and compair the mags and cockers to them. If this works then it should prove my theory that they should all shoot the same given the same barrels and velocity and paint.
-Hostage

[Ov3rmind]

I'm so sick of these threads.:mad:

It doesn't have longer range, I know, I own one!

[shartley]

Originally posted by hostage
hmm...Well i did a search and found nothing on this subject...I think I will get with some friends 3 mags 3 cockers and 3 other random guns, I will use the 3 random guns as controls and compair the mags and cockers to them. If this works then it should prove my theory that they should all shoot the same given the same barrels and velocity and paint.
-Hostage
What? LOL Look a few posts up... and that was taken from MANY threads on the subject. ;)

[AcemanPB]

I myself have tested this countless times, and at first it actually does look like the autococker's balls go further, but that is just some sort of an optical illusion (i think because the autococker is a taller gun or something i'm not to sure about optical illusion and such)

[dcmander]

It's not really that they shoot farther, its that they shoot straighter at greater distances...

I don't believe it.. I think the main reason people think that is when ppl shoot mags they usually go crazy. When people shoot cockers, they don't want to break them so they shoot slow and careful and aim up their shots and hit more poeople. :D No..actually I think the autococker is just bigger and aims up better for ppl. They also aren't as fast and are in some cases heavier, so people will shoot them with more accuracy.

The closes bolt things..Cocker owners say that the ball doesn't bobble around before its fired w/ close bolt. They say with an open bolt, as the ball forces forward it spins around, therefore creating the "misaccuracy" (<= word? ;) )

That's what they (pretty much) say to me anway... :)

[Ultimator]

Originally posted by dcmander
It's not really that they shoot farther, its that they shoot straighter at greater distances...Oh no! it doesn't shoot farther! It just shoots greater distances! :rolleyes: Haha ... sorry I couldn't help it. I told myself I wouldn't comment on the debate because I've seen this soooo many times. The same argument over and over and over ...

[TRIAD]

....and over and over

[Load SM5]

Because people are tools who'll believe anything they're fed by a marketing guy.

[davidb]

Ya see, it has to do with the way the valving is discomunimlated from the pump. The cross-postularation of hoses and closed-boltedness makes for an increase in the air-to-air capabilities of the... See, I knew you wouldn't understand this.

Sound familiar? I copied that from my post on the "Because Quality Always Shoots Straight" thread.

Care to know how I dug that up? ;)

[Load SM5]

You forgot to mention the flux capacitor.

[davidb]

Well, that just goes without saying.

[Cliffio]

your all crazy, my cocker shoots way farther than anybody elses gun at my field

and its way more accurate as well


i hope none of you ever play with me, ill shoot you from way afar


Cliff

[Lone Brain Cell]

Coz they know that their "Cocker" is small and they have to find something to brag about!:p

[davidb]

One question, Cliff...

What are you shooting your Cocker from that makes it fly so straight and far??

[Cliffio]

my 18" boomstick

[oldsoldier]

I use a slingshot....shoots VERY straight!

[Ultimator]

Yeah those cockers ... you can hit planes flying over head if you wanted to.


Originally posted by davidb
... and closed-boltedness makes ...

Btw ... is closed-boltedness a word?

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Ultimator
you can hit planes flying over head if you wanted to.

EXACTLY


lol


davidb- i was just playin buddy:) i dont have a cocker:)

[Spray Painter]

Hey Cliffio,

i bet you use these paintballs too:
http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=481563

[davidb]

Cliff, I know. You're The Angel Guy that isn't. And if you'll look carefully at MY question, you might notice that you probably misinterpreted it. ;)


What are you shooting your Cocker from that makes it fly so straight and far??

I guess that 18" Boomie would give you a lot of leverage! :p

[meat]

ALL GUNS SUCK , i prefer to eat alot of beans and shoot p balls out my butt , saves alot of money . It is a very hard tecnique to preform and exposed alot when i lean from a bunker , maybe warp would help? some how? but its the way i like to play and i love the expression on people's faces when they are sure they hit me but i launch the paint ball right back at them. I will have pictures up tomarrow. :rolleyes: that is sick man:rolleyes: and im kidding about the pics.... and thank god im kidding about the rest!

[RamboPreacher]

Originally posted by hostage
[clip]Why does everyone say Cockers shoot futher."everyone" doesn't.

[bofh]

Originally posted by Cliffio
my 18" boomstick
I want an 18' boomstick, then my range would increase :)

{there are no typo's in this message}

[SlartyBartFast]

Once apaintball leaves the barrel, the gun has nothing to do with how far it goes.

If it leaves a slingshot, and automag, a cocker, a stingray, or an AO member filled with too many beans :eek: , it will travel the exact same distance as long as it is travelling exactly the same speed.

Paint to barrel match, consistency/quality of the paint, and consistency of the marker will all play a role as to whether the marker (or whatever :p ) will send the ball the same distance and hit the same target everytime.

I challenge any of the naysayers to come up with just one factor related to the gun that can affect the paintball once it is airborn and chrono'd at 300fps.

PS: Shartley, Nice try but you're tilting at windmills. These threads will never die :D . But we've got to try an educate the masses. Unfortunately, as they say, there's a sucker born every minute.

[shartley]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
PS: Shartley, Nice try but you're tilting at windmills. These threads will never die :D . But we've got to try an educate the masses. Unfortunately, as they say, there's a sucker born every minute.
LOL Thanks. But I am sure you noticed I did not put much effort into it..... ;)

[Paintchucker]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
Once apaintball leaves the barrel, the gun has nothing to do with how far it goes.

I challenge any of the naysayers to come up with just one factor related to the gun that can affect the paintball once it is airborn and chrono'd at 300fps.



How about the spin on the ball imparted by the barrel???

[covadsucks]

Can't we all just get along? Mags shoot just as far as Cockers, with the same accuracy and just as slow/fast what have you. It's not the plane, it's the pilot.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Paintchucker

How about the spin on the ball imparted by the barrel???

Yes, if you are using a Flatline barrel or A Z-body Mag with an oversized barrel there will be underspin on the ball. These two two setups should shoot further.

While I haven't seen testing or used one myself, I have heard that all you really gain is more long distance bounces using these systems.

[BTAutoMag]

we need to have a controlled experiment with a clamp that will hold 4 guns at the same angle, an indoor field (no wind), a cocker, a mag, an angel, a really REALLY cheap gun with adjustable velocity, a chrono to measure exactly how fast each gun is shooting, and a REALLY long tape measure.

[Scootyd]

Your right about long range bounces, I like to taunt flatines and just keep hard surfaces hid. I had this discussion at the local shop just last Sunday. The two cocker fans ended up agreeing that if you regulated the air input to a spyder the way you do a cocker then they would be accurate to. This left the mag / cocker issue dead as they are both accuratly regulated markers.

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

I am a mod over at air-powered.com an autococker internet resource hence the AIR. <stop shameless plug>

The general concensus basicly revolves around a few things. What was the primary air source back in the early days? CO2, and we know that given between a mag and cocker the cocker will run better off straight CO2. Consistency. Now, to shoot a cocker you have this annoying problem of balls rolling out the barrel, a pain. In the old days before barrel to paint match became a mantra, you had to fit the balls to the cocker, because if you didn't they would roll out. So there is the second function, whereas mags could drop in any old paint and shoot well. Third, a slightly tuned cocker as less recoil than a mag, leading to less jumpiness.

Az

[SlartyBartFast]

AzrealDarkmoonZ,

The really sad thing is that I was arguing against these myths back in the late 80's on rec.sport.paintball. People just love hype!:p

Remember guys and gals: Don't believe everything the salesperson says. Back when SP came out with their "Externally Spiral Rifled Barrels" (ie: ported) they were claiming that the spiral holes spun the PB like rifling in a firearm barrel causing the ball to have greater precision and accuracy. What a laugh.:rolleyes:

Sad thing is people will still believe it.:p

[InfinatyBPS]

Cockers pwnz
Mags= R0><0R3D
:rolleyes:

[Ov3rmind]

Actually, what AzrealDarkmoonZ said makes perfect sense. It's just that some of you are so anti Cocker, that you didn't even realize what he posted. he didn't say the Cocker is more accurate or shoots further. Basically what he WAS saying, was that due to several factors, back in the older days Cockers ran better off Co2 and required a good paint/barrel match to not have balls roll out. This caused the Cocker to operate under more favorable conditions. However, back then, the Mag could still have a mismatched paint/barrel (without paint roll out, due to ball detents), and it ran a little worse off of Co2. Therefore, you had more Mag users running Mags off of less favorable conditions. Under todays circumstances though (most everyone runs their Mags and Cockers off of N2, and we know the accuracy benefits of a good paint/barrel match), they are both going to shoot just as accurately and with just as much range.

Both sides of the argument always seem to lack basic knowledge of either gun.

[scribe]

mass x acceleration = force.

momentum = force x time

[MinimagRockin']

Thats weird that you mention that meat. Just the other day I was relating to my friend that it might be possible (if you had a lot of gas) to eject paintballs from your <B>nostril</B>...strane I thought I was the only one weird enough to come up with that...PROPS.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by scribe
mass x acceleration = force.

momentum = force x time

Um... momentum = mass x velocity... :)

Impulse = force x time

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

My post was somewhat off subject in that shooting farther is a total function of FPS, disregarding guns using the magnus effect.

My post dealt more with the accuracy part. And unfortunatly FPS is NOT a reliable measure of accuracy. So yes a cocker, mag, talon, all going 300 FPS shoot just as far as each other, unfortunatly this is not the case due to a thousand variable, every had those balls that hooked to the left or up, so in a sense we are assuming some things. Only the marker changes, everything else does not.

Shooting farther is really not that big of an issue nowadays, your cone of fire is, ie the area that your marker hits at a given range, smaller is better.

Of course we all know the most important aspect of accuracy...don't we? Why the LP super high efficiency kit? Or the recoil reducing fantastic no ball breaking LVL 10? The newest .0001 micron bored titanium alloy barrel?

Nope...Famaliarity with the marker. Want to see a scary player, look at the fellow who has been using the same mag, tippman, spyder for the past 3 or 4 years...

Az

[dcmander]

Originally posted by Ultimator
Oh no! it doesn't shoot farther! It just shoots greater distances! :rolleyes: Haha ... sorry I couldn't help it. I told myself I wouldn't comment on the debate because I've seen this soooo many times. The same argument over and over and over ...

lol jeez dude. Actually READ my post CAREFULLY. I didn't say "They shoot greater distances." I said cocker owners SAY "Cockers shoot MORE ACCURATE at greater distances." This meaning, a mag and a cocker will shoot the same distance. But the autococker will shoot straighter.

This is all of what cocker owners say though, not my personal opinions.

[Mook564]

Well here is my opinion, I own both a Mag and a Cocker there are two things that I have noticed. One the Mag shoots way faster then a Cocker. Two the cocker seems to be more accurate.The only problem with saying that is it is not the marker that has to be accurate. What ever gun you are more comfortable with will shoot better for you.