New Proto Slug Body PICS!!!!

[AGD]

Here it is!! You can cut it, carve it, shake and bake it. It's big, it's ugly and it's just what you have been waiting for! The caterpillar thats waiting to emerge into a beautiful butterfly. The Sluggo Body!! The biggest chunk of ugly aluminum ever to be photographed on a pb marker. Come one come all and figure out how to cut this baby up and get rid of the uglies!

AGD

http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/sluggo1.jpg

http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/sluggo2.jpg


http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/sluggo3.jpg


http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/sluggo4.jpg


http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/sluggo5.jpg

[personman]

http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/sluggo4.JPG
Can you say: 'EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW'?
:p

[pito189]

I could say something, if any of the pictures worked. :D

EDIT: They work now, and I like it. The feed tube even has cute little hearts on it. I would imagine it's cocker threads, because it looks like it has the infamous extreme barrel on there.

What is the hole on the side of the body under the feed tube? Blowback? ACE? Hole for newbies to stick stuff in? Elf air hole?

[magman007]

hey there it is!

thats pretty cool


its everything every one wants... Will there be a factory cnc also??? also angel feed tube threading, cocker threading... guys tom is listening!!!

[spazzed]

Foshizzle! So long as there's a factory C&C, I'll be quite happy :D

*EDIT* Pito, it's for the elves to get in & out of the marker! DUH!!!

[HoppysMag]

good way to get it to the people obsessed with milling and anno's. good job tom.

[magman007]

first suggestion, dont do any thing to flowing, that is waht the extreme is for, if people want that look, they can buy that body.......

2nd suggestion.... can you make the sleve envelop the valve? i think that looks really good on the sfl and the extreme

3rd suggestion when desinging mill patterns, try to do something with the boddy rail also

[EsPo]

wow, that looks completely.......... plain. vertical feed= ewww cocker threading= noooooooo

[magman007]

espo, didnt we discuss this already? this is what the industry wants, if you dont, stick with your current mag body, tom is coping to the industry, and waht others want, there are others out side of AO that shoot mags

[Ov3rmind]

I like it! I'm almost positive I'll get a Mag now. Chances are I'd get this body, then just thin it down and have it anodized in a pretty acid wash, yeah!

Any idea on pricing (I'm assuming cheap, since it's a small, unmilled, and unanoed aluminum tube)?

[SlartyBartFast]

Hmmm..

Not "sluggish' enough. Why produce a slug body that requires the body rail?

Just produce a big square block of aluminum that has the holes for barrel, valve, grip frame, sear. I suppose just a blockish Extreme.

Besides that, the centerline for the feed and ball detent should be marked.

With what is shown there it looks like you'd end up with a custom marker that's heavier than an extreme no matter how you carve it.

[AGD]

Just in case my intro wasn't clear, this body is meant to be cut up by the end user or by aftermarket customizers. We will make them custom too, we just need some feedback from you on how to do it. Please photoshop the images and post your results.

AGD

[magman007]

they said the tube is cheeper because of the lathe there using, it is much easier than machining a block, also, it is cheeper, so better off for the end user

[Sinnet]

looks great tom!

just wondering, could you make a cheap (non-slug) version of this similar to a normal mag body in thickness? I know you're giving people what they want with a millable block, but would it also be possible to go completely bare-bones as a stock option?

just a word from a tube lover, don't mind me :)

[AGD]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
Hmmm..

Not "sluggish' enough. Why produce a slug body that requires the body rail?
.

Because this one will retrofit into all the old guns. You can just upgrade your body. Also there are different sear positions with the different rails so one body would not fit them all.

AGD

[FrAuStY]

Yes... a very good step in the right direction! No longer will they be able to call the mag a "Tube" That body opens several paths for AGD to take, they can custom anno, C&C, maybe even pass it as a Nova ;) (JK bout the nova TOM I know it's a proto :D) But yes.. I think it should cover the valve as well, Have you thought about maybe putting a steel sleev in it to cover the working parts, then you can mill it kinda like the Angel's and cockers! That would be tight! Eeeeewww... I'm all gitty now.. even the Automags and not just the Emag's will get a face lift! GOOD JOB!


*EDIT*- Can't wait to get home and photoshop that bad boy! WOOHOO!!

[SlartyBartFast]

If this is destined for aftermarket, why not just liscence to anybody that want's to produce their own bodies.

With the half dozen critical measurements required, it should be possible for som truely innovative mag designs.

[Mossman]

Word :) -I hope you put this out before the milled versions, I bet you'll see just how creative people can be.

Looks good to me Tommy, wish i had the Photoshop skills to make a Sammo-Custom milling on it :)

[Kevmaster]

im a fan of it. i thats is a step in the right direction here. sell them maybe with a little more milling than that and allow the user to customize his product...good call

[Mossman]

Oh ya, 2 things. Is that hole in the body for the detent? and is there anyway of making a raised area around the feed tube without raising prices much. it could be milled off by the enduser, but it'd be much easier to make a flowing design that incorporates the feed neck with a little beef around it :)

[kevdupuis]

How much, and are they available right now.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by AGD
Because this one will retrofit into all the old guns. You can just upgrade your body. Also there are different sear positions with the different rails so one body would not fit them all.

AGD

Alright, I see your point. Could you not produce a body that has the different sear pin possitions marked to make the slug generic?

Or, produce an block exteme body for each variant.

Or, could spacers be produced for between the grip frame and body to accomodate differences?

Sorry if this all sounds stupid, but I really don't know what the various differences between mags are.

Functionally they're all obviously identical, it's just a matter of geometry of the sear and gripframe right?

[EsPo]

i get it, this is supposed to be milled and anodized and all that other good stuff by the buyer!! well, ill just keep my nose out of stuff that is going to be way way to expensive for me to even look at.

[FrAuStY]

Espo... eat your title ;) (just kidding with ya) But ya you got the idea... they're not gonna sell new guns looking like that... this is for future mags, and upgrades to previous mags. Many people say mags are non-customizeable... we'll see about that!

[shartley]

Way to go.... if I have some time I will see what I can come up with. :D

[Remington]

For the love of god bring back the twist lock! It's so much easier to clean the barrel. I don't however, like the fact that there has to be nubbins ON the barrel. I like the idea of a cocker detent in the body itself, that way if you wanted to twist out the barrel paint doesn't come rolling out of the body if you tip the mag towards the ground. Probably too expensive to change mag barrels but I just wanted to point that out, it'd make my world complete.:D

[EsPo]

yes, twist lock power!! i say put a built in ball detent though, them nubbins are gettin anoying...(holy cow, we typed the same thing)


consider title eaten and digested, its probably in the sewage plant by now...Better frausty>?

[Blazestorm]

wEeee eEeEEE :)

took 20 min... nothing big :)

[Jacob]

Well, for starters, put a bolt in there. ;)

[magman007]

guys, twist lock is old and obsolete, i like it better, i know, but come on, you gotta realize, the industry doesnt....

[EsPo]

magman is conforming:( well, if the twist lock is old and obsolete, so be it, i love it!!

[Blazestorm]

Mags are 10+ years old... they still good... whats your point :D

[Paul La Rue]

Awesome. I can't wait till these are ready to go!
I'll try and play with the body in Photoshop this weekend and see what comes out of it. ;-)

[FrAuStY]

I'd like to point out something about the twist-lok barrels, Yes.. when mags first came out..it was a great idea.. Easier to clean the barrel, BUT NOW, we have a great thing called the LVL10.. no need to remove the barrel as you shouldn't be breaking/chopping paint! Another thing.. ever notice why mag barrels cost 10$ more on average? It's because of the FRIGGIN twist lock! Cocker barrels are more uniform, can be bought just about anywhere.. and guess what... They're not 10$ more than every barrel out there! I say stick with it AGD, everything in the past 6 months that has come out has been a huge progress over previous products! You're on a roll and before long.. mag's will be up there above Angel's and Cockers! (As if they aren't already.. but thats my opinion)

Espo- ;) you shy guy you, you didn't have to change your title. LOL I was only saying to eat by nicely saying Shut up *EDIT* I wasn't being mean..I was actually kidding with you ;), since of course thats what your title was and you yourself admitted you shouldn't be posting on something you didn't understand (You thought the pics were of a finished production body) change it back it fit you :D

[Bartman]

AGDTom

That is hands down the most inovative and awsome product I have see AGD put out yet.

This new body will alow total custom to teh "TUBE" gun, alowing personal artistic talents to shine on a proven base of a gun.

My hat goes off to you, and cudoss for making it cocker threaded. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these bodies and see what interesting looking mag I can dream up.

bartman
Team I have no idea
www.ihni.org

[Spray Painter]

very cool.:) agd- do have any idea when these will be in full production and do you know the aproximate cost of the body?

[spazzed]

Don't forget rogue, they'll be doing in-house c&c's on the new bodies as well ;)

[AGD]

Rouge,

They are the same bodies, we just left more meat on it! You can cut one down to look the same.

AGD

[Sinnet]

Originally posted by Sinnet
just wondering, could you make a cheap (non-slug) version of this similar to a normal mag body in thickness? I know you're giving people what they want with a millable block, but would it also be possible to go completely bare-bones as a stock option?

just a word from a tube lover, don't mind me :)

although I understand if you want to stick with a thicker brick and not branch out too far


heres a simple photoshop, i think it looks kinda cool

[NewMag]

I think it's beutifull. call me old fashioned or a knob, but a mag is a mag and I'm a sucker for simplicity. Whats more insulting than being beat by a non electro in a tourney? being beat by an "ugly" non-electro in a tourney.

and btw. since it's my first time on the forum, I would just like to congragulate(sp?) you, Mr. Kaye, on a far superior product(the 68 Mag). I traded my cocker(highly upgraded) straight up for a simple Mag setup and have been COMPLETELY satisfied in every way. The upgrades alone on my cocker were worth more than my new mag and I dont regret it one dang bit. My friends were cautious about playing me with the cocker, but now they're terrified to be on the opposite team for some reason. Perhaps its the aura a mag has around it, it just screams "fear me". So I'll stop wasting screen space and just say, Thank You.

[joeyjoe367]

I WANT WARP MAINBODIES!

now that we've gotten that out of the way, I think they'd be better if they could overlap the top of the valve kinda like the extreem bodies right now. That would increase the amount of "Creativity" you had to work with, since you don't have to mill down to the valve to make it look streamlined.

...I hope You guys understand what I'm trying to say.

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

I dont see whats so inovative about it, its still just a tube!:p*just kidding*

AGD, can you give us a cost on these new bodies?

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

Yeah extend the body all the way to the end of the valve so you can have more options on milling. I dont have photoshop:( but come on photoshop masters show you stuff!

[Kevmaster]

then download it :)

hehe, i LOVE having $2500 of software on my computer for the price of $0.00

[rpm07]

can do alot with that on the mill;) ;)

[Shirow]

Looks interesting. Ugly right now, but I guess that is the point. The only downside I see is having to use an elbow for a warp - I don't think I'd want to give up my minimag warp feed body. I'll be really interested to see what comes of these though - hopefully some companies will pick these up and make some nicely milled & annoed mags - might be the beginning of a new era - will we see a Black Magic RT Pro? ;)

[Automaggin2]

Woooooooooooooooooooow, i got some great milling ideas. when they come out, im sending it over to Jeremy over at Jackal to whip me up some nice teardrops and snuff. Ill probably do some photoshop action on the picture and post it

[TITAN]

i like how it has angel vert feed threads... i'd stick a gated feed on there

[omni]

woo go New Protobodies!

[datapimp69]

tom,

is the hole need to be on the side for something?

just wondering, the old pics that you said were the same didnt have a hole?

[Sinnet]

Originally posted by datapimp69
tom,

is the hole need to be on the side for something?

just wondering, the old pics that you said were the same didnt have a hole?

i'm guessing its for the ball detent

[nippinout]

Tom, any chance on getting more meat on them bodies?

I mean, not fatter, but longer so that it goes over the valve. Integral sight rail?

More MEAT! :)

[AutoMaggot]

I like how Sinnet worked that body with the sloping front and back... perhaps some side cuts like on the new Powerlyte Hybrid would look good.

But first things first people... get rid of that FUGLY RT grip. Seriously. That thing is a friggin eyesore.

[AutoMaggot]

OK, this sucks really really bad... but ya get the ideas!

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

hmmmmmmm

[Scooter/Cootie]

My first attempt at anything like this. Hmm... ;)

[nippinout]

How do you do that crazy cool fade stuff?

[mrhooie]

very exciting

[omni]

The fade is a simple Gradient. Its under the FillTool.

Then you add a layer property so the under layer shows through nice. or you can lower the Opacity, differnt thing, same output or close to it.

[joeyjoe367]

^^Reason for the idea above is because, as I stated before, It doesn't limit someone's creativity as far as milling the rear section goes.

with the current "Sluggo" body, all the lines that are milled are going to have to end up as the same width as the Valve, otherwise, you're going to have this big' ol section sticking out of the top where there should be coverage on TOP of the mainbody.

If it's the way I've shown, or ROUGHLY the same, It should allow people doin' mill work to go the entire length of the body without having to worry about the aesthetics of the main valve.

get my drift? I'm wanting like a NON-MODULAR Extreem body. I think AGD can do that, right?

[joeyjoe367]

whoops, forgot to attatch IMG>...

[FrAuStY]

Here's a try at 2 AM, ....must have sleep...looks terrible.. will give another shot tomorrow! But... it's setup for warp left! WOOT!

[pito189]

Originally posted by AutoMaggot
OK, this sucks really really bad... but ya get the ideas!http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=504970

I like this one a lot. I like the incorporated snatch grip. I was thinking of doing that when I had my E-Mag milled. Very nice good job AutoMaggot.
:D

[Schnitzel]

I know this doesn't have anything to do with design suggestions, but I gotta present it.

With the ability to switch bodies with this new design, and the fact that it's a cocker threaded barrel, I see one issue that may arise when "upgrading" to the new body. What about the twist-lock pin? That's one thing that will have to be acknowledged when you put this out, Tom.

[Smoken]

the pin is removeable.

[FrAuStY]

You can remove the twist-lock pin... you just have to gently tap it up from the bottom using a centerpunch. NBD.

[thei3ug]

How soon can I get one to begin milling?

[Manuel_FZR]

I like the one from AutoMaggot ... it´s great ... !!! Good ideas.

[Darkling]

Well, heres my try at this. Sorry about the crappy quality. I can't find my copy of photoshop in the mess that is my room, so I had to resort to paint....groan....

[Coaster]

nobody seems to be talking about the feed tube, so i will say something. I really don't like that kind of feed tube, i think it would look nicer with one that looks like the GZ's one.. .kinda just like a cylinder no conical at all and doesn't go up that high.

[pito189]

Originally posted by Coaster
nobody seems to be talking about the feed tube, so i will say something. I really don't like that kind of feed tube, i think it would look nicer with one that looks like the GZ's one.. .kinda just like a cylinder no conical at all and doesn't go up that high.

I agree that feed tube has to go.

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tournament/nppl/2002/worldcup/tradeshow1/MVC049S.jpg
This would work minus the homosexual colors. :rolleyes:

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tournament/nppl/2002/worldcup/tradeshow1/MVC075S.jpg

Now that right there would look very good on that body.:)

[SlartyBartFast]

The discussion has changed since my last post but here goes:


Tom,
To get rid of the rail, how about the following idea: I thought a little mopre about my question concerning spacers and thought why not make a two part slug?

The upper part can be universal, the lower part can be AM, RT, RTPro, EMag specific. The two parts could then be brazed together to form one slug. This would keep your costs lower than having seperate slugs for each model, but would also allow for much more possibilities for customisation.

Also get rid of the feed tube. Customizers should be left to drill the feed where they desire, just mark the centerline on the slug.

Still think extreme bodies made larger and squarer with the absolute minimum on drilling/machining are a much better idea for customisers though.

[SI|ENT|3O|3]

i really like fraustie's idea. a choosable warp left body option would be really cool. i would like that in black o yeah.
-sebastian

[RetroEclipseMan]

I like the way this is going. I think that these bodies need to released looking like the stock extreme bodies where the valve is covered by the body leaving lots of meat to carve off so if people want part of the valve covered then the can have that and if they don't want it covered then they can have it milled off. I still like the design that Dave came up with a few months agohttp://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=262145

There's a few things that I would like to change but I gotta wait till I'm in school to scan my drawing into the computer. This has already been said but why not say it again so Tom knows more people want it. The feed should be angel threaded so that we can get the low rise gated feed or better yet if there is some way that the no rise feeds like on the sfl's can be taken off that would be cool to. Again i'm not telling you to do this Tom since you're the mastermind behind this and whatever is decided will be the best, just making a request. Thanks.

Brandon

[magman007]

ok guys, the feed neck is to show that it is angel threaded, meaning any angel feed neck can be thrown on..... Underestand??

[RetroEclipseMan]

Originally posted by magman007
ok guys, the feed neck is to show that it is angel threaded, meaning any angel feed neck can be thrown on..... Underestand??

Alright, my mistake. I'm happy now:D

[paintballpark187]

I think it looks sexy just without the exess shiznat

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by magman007
ok guys, the feed neck is to show that it is angel threaded, meaning any angel feed neck can be thrown on..... Underestand??

Thanks! I was hoping someone would mention that.

Milling doesn't concern me as much as features. Just keep the simple, functional look of the mags and I'll be happy (the extreme body has a functional industrial look but still looks snazzy).

As far as the features I think it is on the right track

Cocker Threaded

Anyone else notice that some of the new barrels made by companies (including the new Powerlyte system) is not going to make twist lock?

Angel Feed threaded. This is great. I can get the gated feed tube and stick it on there. I'm sure Tom will drill some of the bodies to accomodate Warp (why wouldn't he).

I'd like to have an integrated sight rail but realize that there are very few people that want to have the Dye Izon or Armson Prodot behind their vertical feed. I just happen to be one of them.

Other than that the lighter the better!

Mark me down to buy one! I'll teach all of you SFL/Extreme/Emag users a lesson yet with my Retro!!!!

[AutoMaggot]

I agree that the GZ feed tube, and other cocker threaded ones, would look DEAD sexy :)

[paintballpark187]

here... looks pretty nice actually

[joeyjoe367]

Perhaps there should be a "SFL" Mainbody, (not shocktech, simply just 'Super Friggin' light') where it's just the bare minimum, simmilar to the two aluminum tubes shown above.

then we can have the other "sluggo" bodies for custom people to mill up, etc...

[joeyjoe367]

Oh, and did I mention WARP MAINBODIES? :D

[rikkter]

personally i like the twist lock, easy cleaning on field. why not just have the buyer choose which style he wants, threaded, or twist lock?

[Darkling]

Well, heres my try at this. Sorry about the crappy quality. I can't find my copy of photoshop in the mess that is my room, so I had to resort to paint....groan....

I dunno if any of you have seen the Gothic Cocker bodies made by FBM, but I'd like to see a run of them made for the mag. If anyone else has any interest in them, I'm talking to the guy from FMB now, so hit me up with a pm.

[AutoMaggot]

Darkling... That is frikkin' schweet. I like that a lot.

[RamboPreacher]

Originally posted by Darkling
Well, heres my try at this. Sorry about the crappy quality. I can't find my copy of photoshop in the mess that is my room, so I had to resort to paint....groan....

I dunno if any of you have seen the Gothic Cocker bodies made by FBM, but I'd like to see a run of them made for the mag. If anyone else has any interest in them, I'm talking to the guy from FMB now, so hit me up with a pm. kewl - matches my PB gloves...
http://www.pentestone.com/paintball/020420-rp/DSCN0800.JPG

[manike]

RP, sometimes you scare me :) But I want that gun you are shooting!!! :D

The gothic bodies at the cup had such sharp points on them that I would not be surprised if you could pucture sup air bunkers with them...

manike

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

Can i email someone my pics and can post them up, they are pathetic, done on paint but it gets the body lay out.

[TheJester]

are they available in any other form, or just for the rt? how about minimag?

[Ov3rmind]

Here's a slimmed down black mainbody:

[Ov3rmind]

Extended Mainbody:

[Shirow]

come on guys, these are boring! they're for milling and annodizing! no offense, but if I wanted a plain black or chrome mainbody I'D BUY ONE! they are already available, hell, I already have one!

look at all the cocker and angel bodies - we need something to compete for eye candy!!

[845]

Could someone photoshop an adrenaline angel feed tube on therehttp://g3pb.com/product_images/angel/adren_vl_adapter.gif

[omni]

First one, sorry bout the Feedneck, heh. I was looking for something differnt, couldn't find anything nice.

http://models.firearmsmod.com/omni/protomag1.jpg

[shartley]

omni-
Getting better... keep at it.

[TITAN]

Originally posted by omni
First one, sorry bout the Feedneck, heh. I was looking for something differnt, couldn't find anything nice.

http://models.firearmsmod.com/omni/protomag1.jpg

wow i really like that

[Blennidae]

Nice work Omni.

[Spray Painter]

Omni. that body is diffinetly original. i like it:)

[sniper1rfa]

i like automaggots

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=504970



i really like that one. omni's is cool as well.

[magman007]

so far im really diggin omni's.... Onmi would you mind evening out the scallops so that there are 2 on each side? id like to see how it would look

[magnj]

nice job agd. Iwas thinking about something like that. I want the body to envelope the valve that would be sick. I like ur pic omni. price?

[rikkter]

i love it when i make a suggestion and it gets deleted.....:mad:

[Jimmi9999]

I like the idea of a gothic body.

make it evil, make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end, make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them, if that meaans sticking all sorts of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it, this is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with. Douglas Adams

[Ov3rmind]

.

[omni]

Yup, I'll try a equil version tomorrow when I get up. :D

[Ov3rmind]

Omni, I really, really like that body you did. Very clean, but very appealing all at once.

[scribe]

you guys need synreal on this.

[omni]

Syn was working in PS last night, so maybe he'll have something cool out soon :D

[shartley]

I personally think all new Mag designs should key off of smooth lines and keep to the Mag’s minimalist appeal. The C&C did a great job of that.

I would recommend NOT getting over carved and too intricate. Doing that will make it look like Mags are trying to copy all the other super carved markers on the market.

So, keying off of omni’s blue design with its sweeping lines, I whipped up this design. It is close to what I would like to see, and think it would definitely turn heads. The inner blue part would of course be able to be color matched to whatever barrel the owner wanted. It brings the lines of the barrel back and gives the illusion that the body wraps around the barrel as opposed to the barrel simply being screwed into it. And the colored level as seen would be as thin as the body would actually allow, and then the layers work their way out in relative thickness. The rear would be milled into a tapered edge, brining it as close to the thinnest part of the body as possible.

I may come up with more ideas, but I hope this sparks others…..

[magman007]

WOW!!! i dont know which is perdier! wow guys, im quite impressed!!!! Nice job Sam and Omni

[sniper1rfa]

one thing.

AGD: what are you planning on milling these with? omni and synreal's designs would easily take 1/2 to and hour on a mill, and this would jack the price up to way more than anybody would pay for a mechanical marker (sorry guys, thats the way the world works, i personally would buy one).

so wahat are you planning on using, so these can be modified to be machine friendly?

[shartley]

Originally posted by sniper1rfa
one thing.

AGD: what are you planning on milling these with? omni and synreal's designs would easily take 1/2 to and hour on a mill, and this would jack the price up to way more than anybody would pay for a mechanical marker (sorry guys, thats the way the world works, i personally would buy one).

so wahat are you planning on using, so these can be modified to be machine friendly?
Well, unless you have seen something Synreal has made, but yet posted, how do you know? ;)

As for what omni and myself posted, it is actually not that complex of a design, and is even less so than most of the other milled markers on the market. They both consist of taking off large amounts of material, but do not require any intricate milling. This, I would think, would make the milling process faster, not slower. Maybe someone like Manike could clear this up?

[shartley]

Added Note:

Also, I think it can be reasonably assumed that SOME time on a milling machine is to be expected. And if a company is not willing to take that time, why on earth would they offer a “blank” to be milled in the first place? They could just sell the standard non-milled bodies currently being offered. ;)

I say, either DO it, or don’t. There is a difference between milling and etching… even if the etching is deep. And I think AGD is providing this body to be MILLED. :)

[magman007]

ooooo sam didnt edit his post.... bad boy sam.... you are starting to slip! :) :D :) :D ;)

[RamboPreacher]

Originally posted by sniper1rfa
one thing.

AGD: what are you planning on milling these with? [clipdid I misunderstand, or were they just gonna sell slug-blanks and it was going to be up to "us" to do the milling (not that AGD wouldn't produce some milled versions). interesting...

[TecnoRobo]

ya thats what i thought to, fill me in
do we mill these are selves or is AGD looking
for designs

[FutureMagOwner]

here i put on the feed tube that someone wanted

[845]

Originally posted by FutureMagOwner
here i put on the feed tube that someone wanted
Thanks

[Shirow]

Omni's is looking good. Keep 'em coming :)

[j.t.]

heres mine

[j.t.]

with color

[TITAN]

shartlys is freakin awsome

[IAMJaws]

mill it like it's a shark, finally i can out style all thoes bloody Dragon timmies.

[shartley]

Originally posted by magman007
ooooo sam didnt edit his post.... bad boy sam.... you are starting to slip! :) :D :) :D ;)
Actually I did not slip. It was a conscious decision of mine. I wanted to make sure it was noted that I had not edited my post. ;)

Originally posted by RamboPreacher
did I misunderstand, or were they just gonna sell slug-blanks and it was going to be up to "us" to do the milling (not that AGD wouldn't produce some milled versions). interesting...
Actually all of the above. AGD was going to offer these to other companies that want to custom mill them, to the private consumer who might want to custom mill them themselves, AND they were going to do some custom milling themselves. Here it is, pretty clear…. Note the part about AGD also making them custom…

Originally posted by AGD
Just in case my intro wasn't clear, this body is meant to be cut up by the end user or by aftermarket customizers. We will make them custom too, we just need some feedback from you on how to do it. Please photoshop the images and post your results.

AGD

[j.t.]

last one

[shartley]

Just for you RP! The warp block could be made either side, but would look pretty much the same. Here is one view showing both the feed and non-feed side.

Again, I hope this gives folks some ideas to build from. I don’t know if AGD would even be interested in the extra work it would take to do this… but since these are only concepts… what the heck….

[Cristobal]

Yes! I think these are the best proto designs yet: simple and with plenty of meat to mill. I'm definitely liking some of the design ideas proposed, especially from Shartly and Omni.

My one STRONG suggestion would be to continue the body back over the valve to allow for milling designs around the valve. Right now it just hangs out the back of the gun looking very plain and boring... extra length in the body would do two things: cover the valve and allow milling around it to make it more interesting, and lengthen the area available for milling, extending the area for designs and allowing the possibility of an integrated sight-rail above the valve. If nothing else, I would extend the body back over the valve just slighly so that there could be a "lip" at the top, rather like on the pro-team bodies, which in my opinion helps to break up the ugly "chop off" line where the body ends and the valve starts.

[sniper1rfa]

not necessarily that the actual milling will take long, just it would need to be remounted thrice. one mount for the top, one for the side, and one for the other side.

also, milling something round isnt easy. it would need to be rough cut, semi-finished, then finished if you want a nice finish. i would take a while.

just my thoughts.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Cristobal
Yes! I think these are the best proto designs yet: simple and with plenty of meat to mill. I'm definitely liking some of the design ideas proposed, especially from Shartly and Omni.

My one STRONG suggestion would be to continue the body back over the valve to allow for milling designs around the valve. Right now it just hangs out the back of the gun looking very plain and boring... extra length in the body would do two things: cover the valve and allow milling around it to make it more interesting, and lengthen the area available for milling, extending the area for designs and allowing the possibility of an integrated sight-rail above the valve. If nothing else, I would extend the body back over the valve just slighly so that there could be a "lip" at the top, rather like on the pro-team bodies, which in my opinion helps to break up the ugly "chop off" line where the body ends and the valve starts.
I agree that having more material covering the valve would allow greater variety of designs, and actually BETTER ones. However, as it stands now.... I can only work with what Tom set as the guideline. :(

I wonder if Tom would think of allowing a bigger "slug" to work with? ;)

Originally posted by sniper1rfa
not necessarily that the actual milling will take long, just it would need to be remounted thrice. one mount for the top, one for the side, and one for the other side.

also, milling something round isnt easy. it would need to be rough cut, semi-finished, then finished if you want a nice finish. i would take a while.

just my thoughts.
No disrespect intended, but two mount or three, what needs to be done needs to be done. By limiting to two sides you don’t give yourself much room for any decent milling. And if that was the case, I would say NOT to do any new milling designs at all. Again, either DO it, or don’t. Doing it half way would only make AGD look cheap.

As for the rounded, VS flat milling…. Yes, flat milling is easier, but you get that feel…. FLAT. However, I know that with the design I posted (or one like it) much of the area could actually be milled flat and still work well (the colored part). But if you want any decent design, you will HAVE to have some curved area, or it will look like dog poo.

[BajaBoy]

i really think we should start off with a block instad of a tube. and also have some kind of metal come over the top of the valve.


think about it. agd has the fastest gun out. why not make it really pretty and put in a lil more $

[omni]

A longer body would be nice :D
Then you could do some really nice stuff back there.

[shartley]

Originally posted by omni
A longer body would be nice :D
Then you could do some really nice stuff back there.
I agree. Another couple inches to cover most of the valve would be ideal.

[sniper1rfa]

meh, im just curious as to how much this would cost AGD. :)

i still think those are cool designs. ;)

[aaron_mag]

I like Omni's and Shartley's designs. Very clean. I'd buy either of those. I'm especially impressed as I tried photoshop myself this morning and found it isn't as easy as it looks.

However I really like the industrial style of the SFL and this old picture here (posted in another protobody discussion). Would the same style as this/SFL be possible. Then AGD could name their price. I'd buy it!:D

http://www.kimstkdportland.com/images/magpic.jpg

Note integrated sight rail.

[VBmag87]

Omni's and Shartley's designs are nice, smooth and clean.

[RetroEclipseMan]

I like where you're headed with your design shartley. I to strongly agree that Tom needs to give us a bigger slug to work with and a longer one that would cover the valve. I got an idea that I still gotta put on paper and then find a scanner to get in digital format cause I don't have photoshop at home. If Tom is gonna make it possible to use a bigger slug I was thinking that having an integrated sight-rail on there and have the same kinda lines you made continue up to it. If you can see what I'm saying then give it a shot but I'll get drawing and hopefully will have it up soon. But again this is all in theory sine I'm not sure if Tom is even considering coming out with a slug that covers the valve and is thicker.

[Pand0ra]

My own try (I've really to much free time lol).

[Pand0ra]

And just the body alone

[RetroEclipseMan]

That's a pretty good start. What did you use? 3dsmax?

[Pand0ra]

Nop, Rhino.

[AGD]

Guys,

The designs look better than I was expecting, nice job! We will extend the back of the body over the valve, that's not a problem. Its a much bigger deal to make the body thicker. The amount of aluminum already in it is on the edge of making it to expensive to make sense. When you add a little bit to the outside of a circle you can easily double its volume. These designs are all about being small so lets stick with this for now.

Yes a sight rail would be nice, that's why we originally sugested a bolt on one in the first proto pics from months ago.

AGD

[aaron_mag]

YES!!!! Pandora!!!! That is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to do with my photoshoping (which came out so bad I didn't even post it). This is a really great design. It is the beloved tube shape with some mild extras to make that equal WOW!!!

Must have taken alot of free time. Spend some MORE!! NOW!:D

[Ov3rmind]

LOL, Fishbone Mag!

[RetroEclipseMan]

Originally posted by AGD
Guys,

The designs look better than I was expecting, nice job! We will extend the back of the body over the valve, that's not a problem. Its a much bigger deal to make the body thicker. The amount of aluminum already in it is on the edge of making it to expensive to make sense. When you add a little bit to the outside of a circle you can easily double its volume. These designs are all about being small so lets stick with this for now.

Yes a sight rail would be nice, that's why we originally sugested a bolt on one in the first proto pics from months ago.

AGD
Alright. I will get drawing now that the body will be entended over the valve. Just gotta figure out a way to incorporate the site rail and have the body slope from the feed neck to where the body meets the barrel.

[Punkerx2]

heh this is awesome! i love everyones ideas, they r all great. i will definitly get one of these if the price isnt too high. i have some dieas but i dont have photoshop, so im gonna go try to download it and draw out my ideas..

[booyah]

hey tom, the question on everyones mind is....


WHEN!!!!! :-)

i am already saving my pennies, i just want to know if i should sell of my existing body and wait for this to come out or keep my body for now!!!

cool stuff, i love pandoras :-)

-Booyah

[Sinnet]

jt and pandora, wow! :eek: those are both amazing!

[Ov3rmind]

Not very well done, but you get the idea:

[Punkerx2]

dam i spent like an hour and a half making some designs and came to attach them, and they r not the right type... and i tried to save the pictures under a different type but the only other one i could change it to wouldnt work on here either... so ill try to do my best to explain wut they looked like.. sigh..

k one of them was waves, on the top it went up and down a few times to look like waves, and then on the end, it was like a full tidal wave covering about half of the valve... i thought that one looked pretty cool

the second one was flames, at the front it was at the level of the top of the barrel, and eased its way up until it was as high as the normal slug height at the feed, then straight across at the back until it got to the valve, then slightly dipped down and had one 2 pointed flame and a single pointed flame under it, covering most of the valve but not all of it.. would look cool in red...

next 2 were kinda boring, lol i called this one the rhino, at the front by the barrel it had 2 spikes and then was straight until the back where it went down and had like a tail shape covering some of the valve like >

and the other boring one but looked kinda cool was it was the regular slug shape, but at the back it extends over about half of the valve and is in the shape of LX over the valve...

dam that pisses me off that i couldnt post the pictures...

[tolley]

LOOKS GREAT, I WANT ONE NOW.

[TecnoRobo]

nice job pandora, it looks really nice

you to omni and shartley
keep up the good work

[ICOM]

I made two designs but says file is too big so if you want them im me on aim Antnytro or leave me your aim name in my pm.

[ICOM]

the white lines can be milled and stuff, halfmilled or see threw. you choose. The pics are bad, was made in paint. So bare with me.

[omni]

pandora that looks really cool man :D

Is there a Demo of this Rhino I could get anywhere?
Working in 2d is hard to get nice angle shots.

[Maghog]

Man I'm slow with keeping up on all the new stuff. I haven't even gotten around to getting level 10 yet.
This really is interesting though, and a good approach.
I wouldn't want holes drilled for a sight rail in mine. Lengthening the body to cover the valve is a good idea, and I'd really also like to know if any kind of warp feed style body will be made.
I don't care for the module schnick schnack... just a feed tube angled downward for the warp. Cocker threads, ball detent, delicious aluminum waiting to be eaten by my new Foredom TX.
Note to self: must finish e-mag first.
It sounds like a date!
Nice job AGD!

[shartley]

Doh! I wanted to make an actual 3D model as well so took my RTP and started measuring…. That chunk of aluminum is the EXACT size as the current SS body just beefier. LOL

I will work with that current block, but I think the big thing that is being overlooked is that the sight rail used NOW takes care of the visual of something over the back of the valve. This will not, however, work with the new block of material. Grrrrr

And Tom’s statement is a bit confusing… on one hand it looks like he WILL be adding more material, but then ends with using it as it is now. Hmmmmm

Time to play…..

[shartley]

One more note….. While really looking over some of these designs, and how they would look ON the marker, I think some folks are overlooking one very important part…. How will these designs look at different angles, and how do they actually match up with the current components and lines of the marker? (And yes that includes the design using the 3D program.)

Will the new designs flow with existing lines and curves of the marker parts (such as the base it rests on) or will the new designs simply look like it is slapped on top of it with no thought of current sculpting? I think most will find that their designs will not work nearly as nice as they thought when looked at anything BUT a direct side view. Yes, that includes my designs as well.

Keeping this in mind, I will be doing some real tweaking.

I know… I know… I am a pain. But if a body IS to be milled, it MUST work with current lines and such. No matter how “pretty” we make our designs, if they don’t “work” when actually ON the marker.. from all angles… they will not be made…. Or at least “shouldn’t be” made.

[canibus]

did everyone forget about the 3 prong idea? someone should try to fit the 3 prongs in there and see how it works.

[shinobidice]

i would like a KAPP flame mag body (like the flame matrix) that would be hot (no pun intended) if someone already said this, i'm sorry, i didnt have time to read all the posts. Some nice bodie designs tho (i think i liked shartly's <sp?> the best tho) if i have time i'll desigh one

[shinobidice]

like this is what i meant in my post. I couldnt find a matrix bidy sideways. i used a cocker body. i made it in paint so it's not as good as some others. i don't have photoshop yet anyways.

[scribe]

what's ugly about these mags is the metal piece above the foregrip.

[shinobidice]

couldnt think of what to do with it, and i don't really care, but it should get redesigned and annoed to match

[RetroEclipseMan]

I have a couple preliminary sketches done so far but no way to get them online:mad: . They are kind of based off of Shartley's design but witht the valve covered and also with a sight-rail, assuming the bodies can be made to where one can be attached. The hard part like Shartley said is whether or not it will look right from all angles. Anther thing is how it will match up with the body rail. The basic rails on the classic mags have a lot of sharp lines and a body that has a lot of curves just won't match it. I have an eclipse rail and I don't think that it'll be too easy to come up with something to mill out of a tube will match it too well. I think I'm gonna try and work some things out that have straighter lines for a change and see what I come up with. Hopefully will be able to scan them in on monday.

[someVWkid]

im sure sumone already asked, but i dont feel up to reading 6 pages to find out when these are gonna be availible. can anyone tell me? how much $$$ are we lookin at? are these coming milled or do we mill em ourselves?

[Pand0ra]

Originally posted by shartley
One more note….. While really looking over some of these designs, and how they would look ON the marker, I think some folks are overlooking one very important part…. How will these designs look at different angles, and how do they actually match up with the current components and lines of the marker? (And yes that includes the design using the 3D program.)


Just to let you know, my design takes into account all the internal parts of the mag (valve, power tube, threads, and so on). :)

[shartley]

Originally posted by Pand0ra


Just to let you know, my design takes into account all the internal parts of the mag (valve, power tube, threads, and so on). :)
Just to let you know... that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about all EXTERNAL dimentions of the varrious parts. It is easy to leave space for the internals since the only thing you need to worry about is from the base tube dimensions (as in the most inner ring of metal outside the internal areas) on out.

No offense, but what you are talking about is the EASY part. Getting the outside to match up well is the hard part. And NONE of the designs posted thus far, to include yours AND mine, quite do that…. Sorry.


Originally posted by someVWkid
im sure sumone already asked, but i dont feel up to reading 6 pages to find out when these are gonna be availible. can anyone tell me? how much $$$ are we lookin at? are these coming milled or do we mill em ourselves?
I have to hand it to you…. You sure have some balls. I hope noone answers you… And if you can’t figure out why I would say that….:rolleyes:

[j.t.]

I agree with Shartley on this one. The body does need to flow with the rest of the marker.

In my opinion, what is making this difficult is the body rail. It's hard making a smooth, flowing body match with a differently styled body rail.:confused:

[Pand0ra]

Originally posted by shartley

Just to let you know... that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about all EXTERNAL dimentions of the varrious parts. It is easy to leave space for the internals since the only thing you need to worry about is from the base tube dimensions (as in the most inner ring of metal outside the internal areas) on out.

Oups sorry for the misunderstanding :)

Do we have to really care about this at this stage? I don't think so, that's the job of the guy behind the CAD/CAM program.

@++

[shartley]

Originally posted by Pand0ra


Oups sorry for the misunderstanding :)

Do we have to really care about this at this stage? I don't think so, that's the job of the guy behind the CAD/CAM program.

@++
No problem. No harm done. :D

As for if we should care? I think so, to at least some degree. Because if you don't care at all, you are wasting not only your time, but everyone else’s. If the design is clearly not doable, it does little good to post it. Unless of course the idea is not to help design something that WILL work, but to just show how "creative" we can be no matter if it can be used or not. ;)

But that is just the way I look at it. Everyone has the right to their own opinions. I would rather post one design that has a chance of being workable, than to post 100 that will never hit the CAD/CAM program..... the person doing concept graphics has an obligation (dare I say duty) to at least attempt to keep his/her designs within reach.... that is unless their designs will simply never be made. But that is not the case at hand. ;)

After all, this is not the "fantasy e-mag" competition, it is a call for designs that they may actually use. :D

[j.t.]

My second try... for those who want something boxy... (i know i dont)

The light blue areas represent where it has been milled as thin as possible.

(keep in mind that what may look bad from the side may look good at different angles.)

[Remington]

Shartley's designs are by far the slickest and coolest designs on here. TOM TAKE NOTE PLEASE!

[Miscue]

I think if it looked like Omni's or a flame cocker... that was be great!

[magnj]

hey nice ideas guys. Im loving the flame desig. ON the telsecoping design do it both ways so the valve is even with the back of the slug. Also get rid of the chrome foregrip extender please? Also I have a chrome milled body rail its pretty nice but i dont know if it could be incorperated into milling. Maybe set up a slug rail too, that would rock

[aaron_mag]

Agree with post above. I like Miscue's design but telescoping both sides would be best. That is a very simple design but a little more racy than the simple tube format.

Pandora....any more modifications? Think your design is great. Would buy any of these fine designs but if you got any more "in the box" let us take a look!:D

*EDIT*

The J.T. Design is something I really like as well. Don't mind me guys. I am untalented. I'm just here to offer positive encouragement to bribe you into making even more stuff! :)

*EDIT AGAIN*

Oh and J.T. it does not look bad from the side. I really like the slant milling where the barrel is attached.

[j.t.]

Thanks for the much needed encouragement Aaron! heres my last one (i promise)

[Pand0ra]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
Pandora....any more modifications? Think your design is great. Would buy any of these fine designs but if you got any more "in the box" let us take a look!:D


Tomorrow you'll get a new one :)

[shartley]

Okay, I took the ideas of a “shark” and wanting a sight rail and did some modifications to my last design. The new design also shows more contouring to match the angles created by the body rail it rests on. I wanted to take away any sharp edges or breaks in overall design. With the new alterations, the tail section from the body rail will almost give this a tail effect, or pectoral fins of a shark. It all depends on how you think about it when you look at it.

I know I get a shark/jet/space ship feel when I look at it. Fast, sleek, very tough. I am sure some will like it and others will hate it. I just hope it helps bring out more ideas.

[j.t.]

Will Wood couldnt post his so im posting it for him!:rolleyes:

[shartley]

I like Will's basic idea. Some cleanup and uniformity would need to be done, but great concept.

[canibus]

ok i guess no one wanted to try the 3 prng ideea like on the extremes but speaking of extremes what about matching the valve to the body after i i heard with the new aluminum x valve is going to be able to be annodized. jt,shartley, and omni keep it up!

[Will Wood]

Yea my idea wasn't really finished..It's hard to concentrate on it after studying all day. I'll finish it up at school.

[shartley]

Sorry, I just had to do it….

Blast from the past meets the future….

Those of you who remember the old thread about a fully adjustable Z-Grip, and then it advancing to a fully adjustable Electric Z-Grip will remember this design. Those who don’t… well, here it is… the fully adjustable Z-Extreme on my last concept milling design.

[Jonno06]

i like darklings,then shartlys,then ov3rminds...

darklings rulz!

i would buy another mag if it had that body!

[Will Wood]

Very nice shartly, very nice. /me likes.

[Spray Painter]

Shartleys idea is cool. so are some of jt's.

I remember that thread with the ajustable z-grip.

[aaron_mag]

You guys are killing me with all these cool designs. Last post of encouragement for awhile I promise. I'll quit wasting space with my posts. Right now it is a toss up for me between Pandora's and J.T.'s last one.

But I like the telescope design (both sides) from Miscue as well. It is a pretty simple design and probably very cost effective to mill. I wonder if AGD would put some engraving on it like the SFL (AGD for example instead of SFL). If Tom offers more than one of these for sale I am going to have a tough time deciding....

[j.t.]

Ok, guys, we have some designs that you either like or dislike, but now we need comments as to what needs to be improved on, or what could be added to these designs. :)

Im fresh out of ideas for now:(

[AcemanPB]

What ever happeded to this?
I liked this alot.

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=262781

[shartley]

Originally posted by AcemanPB
What ever happeded to this?
I liked this alot.

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=262781
I think people thought it looked too much like an Angel. I agree with that way of thinking. If the milling looks too much like another brand of marker, I am against it.

Right now, you can pretty much tell what brand of marker it is at a glance... I like that. And I don't want AGD to follow or copy any other marker out there.

Just my opinion...

[Spray Painter]

i think AGD said it was going to be to expencive to mill them that way.

[canibus]

well i took it upon my self to try shartleys as an emag tell me what you think:D and o ya i annoed the valve so it has a gloss black

[pito189]

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=262781

If you took the site rail off of that. It would be the protoslugo body.

[Miscue]

My main idea with this telescoping/stepping body is that... it looks good to me... it can be further milled/customized... and I think it's cheaper/simpler/faster for AGD to mill. I don't think some expensive computerized milling machine is necessary.

I think the RT foregrip needs to be ditched... it looks cheap cuz it is cheap. And... a spruced up body rail would make a big difference.

Those fancy bodies would be good for custom situations I'd say... let 3rd party people do those.

[AcemanPB]

Ok I guess I'll rip off the extremes then.. (hope you don't mind SHartley)

[Spray Painter]

miscue- that is awesome. me wants

[shartley]

Originally posted by Miscue
My main idea with this telescoping/stepping body is that... it looks good to me... and I think it's cheaper/simpler for AGD to mill...

Those fancy bodies would be good for custom situations I'd say...
I think it looks okay. I think it will impress those that get all googoo over shiny things, but aside from that it does not "move" me. Not my style by a long shot, but it looks fine. Good job on the design.

I do find it funny though that you mention cheaper/simpler but then make other modifications to additional parts. ;) I though this was for JUST the new slug. :D That is like saying… “I am going to save you money on this computer, but you can’t use your current monitor, you have to buy this one to go with it.” ;)

(And to answer a question that was asked.....no, I don't mind folks using what I posted and modifying them. That is what they are for. :))

[Miscue]

The body is one of THE most expensive parts for AGD to make. Being able to use a lathe rather than a special milling machine will save them a bundle... speed up production... and the customer ultimately saves money and gets their stuff sooner as well.

This body is supposed to be their medium-range body... this is not their high end body. Think: Big Mac... not Restaurant Steak... or quarter-pounder (classic body) at that. The main idea is that they are replacing a steel body with an aluminum one. The ability to mill and anodize is a bonus. If people want fancy and spend money, they can get an Extreme body... or 3rd parties can mill stuff to their hearts content and charge a premium for special bodies.

But if AGD figures a way to do fancy milling and keep costs down... awesome!

My rail mod idea would be minor modifications to the stock RT rail design... a la the rail in my picture. Additional foregrip... AGD doesn't have to necessarily make... they can get from someone - similar to how they get the DYE Grips.

Oh... and I did in chrome because it was easier with the pics I had. Color options abound...

Ideas is all...

[kemikos]

Am I the only one who would use a Slug Body as is, just because no one else does? ;)

Hey, "ugly" guns can have a certain appeal, too, to the right kind of person... :D

-Kenn

EDIT: By the way, I should have mentioned that I do really like Shartley's design as well... That whole "blending the thin part of the body with the barrel" thing really looks sharp, IMO.

[shartley]

Miscue-
I fully understand.

I will also state however, that I would never pay for a weak milling design over what is already available. And getting stuff sooner, but that stuff is not what I would call "quality" is no "deal" in my opinion. Others may think so... and that is wonderful. But like I always say... if you are going to DO it, DO it, don't half step.

Excuses WHY half stepping is done, doesn't change the fact that it is being done.

Now with that said, am I saying, or have I said YOUR design was crap or poor quality? Not at all. But using your own explanation for WHY you did what you did would indicate that you yourself think it is holding back to be cheaper. And if that is the case, it is indeed half stepping. And that in my opinion goes against what AGD has striven to project about itself.

It is better to do nothing, than to do something half way... and half way is not the AGD way. If they can't do it right, I would suggest not doing it at all. Sell the slugs to 3rd parties and leave it at that.

I personally would like Tom himself to clarify what his capabilities are, and what he is looking for. Because honestly, if he is only looking for super simple and “cheap” designs (using what you stated as an example) then many folks can rethink their designs and put much less effort into making them. Are the designs going in the right direction, or are they not. Because according to YOUR post, designs like mine will not even be made by AGD.

[AcemanPB]

While I like Miscue's idea about the foregrip and body rail, I'm not really liking the body.

But I do disagree with shartley. I think it would be wonderful for AGD to make a body just like your idea (it's my favorite :) ) but I think it is also necasary for AGD to produce an "economy" body that has simple milling (such as Miscue's) so that it is cheaper. Look at your stock autocockers and your stock angels, they aren't milled all nice and pretty at the base level but if you pay a little more you can get them cut any way you want. I think AGD should stick to this idea too.

[Miscue]

Umm... what's available are PVC pipe-like tubes that can't be milled or anodized - and come in the colors: black, polished, and grey. Personally... I'd take something that less resembles PVC... and can be turned into pretty colors. BTW... "sooner" meaning... no several month delay like we have with the Extreme.

Now, as far as my statements go... they are my opinions based on what I think I know (correct me if I'm wrong anywhere)... and what AO frequenters know:

AGD already has a high end body: Extreme.

The slug body is intended to replace all bodies except the classic and Extreme (and variants).

With this in mind, unless AGD wants to jack up the price of RT Pros and such... their new body can't cost them too much.

Thus, the body can only be as fancy as $ allows.

Now, I have no idea what the fancy vs cost ratio is when it comes to milling... but I would imagine increased complexity/curves = more $...

Can AGD clarify on what can and cannot be done with these bodies such that we can head in the right direction with this?

[Miscue]

Originally posted by AcemanPB
While I like Miscue's idea about the foregrip and body rail, I'm not really liking the body.



This body doesn't make me jump for joy either, but I was hoping it could spark ideas, or someone could improve upon it with some imagination...

[Strider]

Wow Shartley, nice work! I truly do like.

I also like the extension idea AcemanPB had on your design. Assuming of course one could get a Slug to go back that far... :D

[AGD]

Miscue is right in that this body has to look cool BUT be easy to machine if we make it. We would like to think it will spark a host of aftermarket guys and end users to make up their own.

We would like to think that we will make a couple of simple but cool designs and this will be about half the production of these bodies. The other half would go out raw to be customized by others.

Cu's body is the best for simple machining. Some of the others are impossible or very costly. If you want to keep it simple use parts of cones (lathe) and pockets more that 3/8" wide (mill) to create your designs.

For example, if you cut a cone in the front and back so the they tapper to points and then cut slots in the side, that would be less expensive.

Like Cu said everyone should post even crappy pics so it stimulates new ideas.

AGD

[Sooky]

Hi all,

Well, I just wanted to say that I think whatever design is decided upon should stand out and be very original. It should be so drastically different from other designs, that eventually when people see it, it screams "Mag" and any other markers milling it in a similar style would be without a doubt copying the design. I think it would sell best to those looking for a performance marker that really stands out - there are so many nice Angel and Cocker designs that even their body styles seem to blend in after a while, in my opinion.

Thats why I like Omni's for the simplicity and originality of it, and SHartley's for the way in which the body appears to wrap around the barrel (also very original). I like Miscue's idea for the foregrip as well... though the Flame mag looks nice, I again think it should be original and scream for attention rather than copying others. :D

Oh, and I also would rather purchase a more expensive but original marker, than a boring/unoriginal/simple, but only slightly more expensive marker...;)

[Smoken]

I don't see a problem with making these just the simple tube design that mags have always had. Making this body into a tube the same size as the current bodies would be cheap, and would solve several "problems": the new bodies would anodize-able, would have cocker threads, and a no-rise centerfeed. I have no problem with the looks of the current mag bodies, and would love too see these new aluminum bodies on the market as soon as possible. If people want fancy milling, they can buy an Extreme.

[Bulldog]

Shartley, I really like your design. One small question: Could you put the same arc thats on the black part by the valve on the black part by the barrel? Once again, great design.

[Bulldog]

Heres what I mean:

[shartley]

Thanks Tom. Well, there is nothing like blindfolding and then handcuffing an artist and telling him to paint the Sistine Chapel. ;)

I had a much longer post written, but I am afraid some folks would take it the wrong way... so I am not posting it. I will however just state that I am more than a bit disappointed.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Bulldog
Shartley, I really like your design. One small question: Could you put the same arc thats on the black part by the valve on the black part by the barrel? Once again, great design.
Thanks.

Yes, I could. But I am not going to. I am not saying this to be rude, but instead because Tom already all but admitted that it (and other nice designs) will not be made by AGD because they can not afford them. The truth sucks some times....

I see no reason to continue with that design process when it seems pretty clear that Tom will not use it, or anything like it. Sorry.

[aaron_mag]

In terms of expense J.T.'s design shouldn't be too expensive should it? As I already stated in a previous post what I liked about Miscue's from the beginning was that it looked like it would be economical. It is a clean design that maybe could be jazzed up with a little engraving. *EDIT* J.T.'s design is actually similar to Miscue's. He uses a slanting telescope effect versus the straight telescope effect.

One thing to consider, however, is would Miscue's design fit with a sight rail? Would J.T.'s even look right with a sight rail? I believe Tom mentioned in a previous post that they might extend the body and make an integrated sight rail. If so I prefer the minimal approach. More of the "sight rail here, use me if you want" rather than the huge sight rails that come with the Emags and RT Pros (personal preference).

As for Shartley's last comments I don't think that you have wasted your time with the designs. It wasn't the design I preferred but there were alot of people who raved over it. As it was well liked it might become a limited edition body. You never know.:D

:D *EDIT* LOL! The Shartley Extreme Limited Edition! :D Seemed funny to me when I thought about it. Of course it is 5:30 AM so it might not be.....:)

[shartley]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
As for Shartley's last comments I don't think that you have wasted your time with the designs. It wasn't the design I preferred but there were alot of people who raved over it. As it was well liked it might become a limited edition body. You never know.:D

:D *EDIT* LOL! The Shartley Extreme Limited Edition! :D Seemed funny to me when I thought about it. Of course it is 5:30 AM so it might not be.....:)
LOL

Okay, let me elaborate... it was not a waste of time to design what has already been posted. After all, noone knew what AGD was actually looking for. It would be a waste of time now however, to continue along those lines knowing that Tom is not looking for that.

Once it has been established what level of design work is wanted (or certain criteria), it would be silly to keep designing OVER that level (or criteria). And up until Tom's last post, what AGD actually wanted was pretty much up in the air. That is not the case now. It is pretty clear what they want..... and honestly, it is far from what I personally want as a consumer. I don't want blocky or cones with cuts put into them.... I want smooth, flowing lines... and it looks like AGD will just not be able to deliver that.

No problem. I am sure there will be some portion of the marketplace that will like whatever they end up doing. And I may submit other designs closer to what the new standard is.... but I will not rush out to do so. My heart would not be in it since I don't like designing something that I would not want to own myself.

And I am not the only guy here that is submitting designs... LOL What my personal opinions are can surely be taken into account, but they are not THAT important all by themselves. ;) It's all good... Most who know me, know I ALWAYS want that little extra. :)

[omni]

I'm lost here, heh. Which designs wont work? When I made mine I tried to keep is simple with some nice curvy lines. Is it hard to do curvy lines on a tube? I was going to make another one, when I can pry the Ps2 controller from my hand ( GTA: Vice City hehe ), what things should we stay away from?

[shartley]

Originally posted by omni
I'm lost here, heh. Which designs wont work? When I made mine I tried to keep is simple with some nice curvy lines. Is it hard to do curvy lines on a tube? I was going to make another one, when I can pry the Ps2 controller from my hand ( GTA: Vice City hehe ), what things should we stay away from?
Yes, it is harder to do curvy lines on a rounded surface. I think some might confuse the issues of simple designs VS complicated ones as it deals with what you see, vs what it takes to MAKE it.

For instance MY design is really not that complicated. It has very little intricate work, it is however the curving lines and sweeps that would make it "complicated" to actually produce.

I hope this makes sense. And I would love if someone such as Manike would verify this, or correct me if I am wrong in this thinking. It will also help others in the fact that they will further know what AGD is truly looking for.

[Bulldog]

SHartley:
Darn, I really tried read to ALL the posts. I got tired near the end I guess.

Well that's too bad. I really liked that design. Maybe AGD should just make aluminum versions of their current bodies instead. Maybe make a version with center feed and one for a warp. Maybe coupled with a cut down rail too. O well :)

[mykroft]

Heh, Looks like a Matrix.

[z-zero]

Man that last one J.T. did was excellent. I really like that design!

z-zero

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

tom could you just give us a block of aluminum to work with, instead of the rounded body?

[RetroEclipseMan]

Alright. Here is my first design. Remember that it's only a start. All the correct dimensions were used so it coulb be possible. If not then it will stimulate ideas i guess. I gotta get to class so I'll elaborate a bit later.

[j.t.]

Aaron, i designed the body in order to match the RT body rail.(draw lines from the slants and lines on the body rail and you will notice they will all match up with the milling on the body) I do not know how it would look with a different though.

[sniper1rfa]

shartley: i told you! ;)

anyway, would somebody please make one with something similar to the back upper of a westwood? that would be quite simple on a lathe, and would look pretty cool.

[shartley]

Originally posted by sniper1rfa
shartley: i told you! ;)

anyway, would somebody please make one with something similar to the back upper of a westwood? that would be quite simple on a lathe, and would look pretty cool.
Actually I beg to differ. You were talking about 2 or 3 position milling done with a milling machine, while TOM seems to want to stick with lathe work and "milling" that could almost be accomplished with a hack saw and drill press. :rolleyes:

Your example while "telling" me would be like going from a Ferrari to Corvette... What Tom said was just a bit different…. Tom's is stepping back to a Pinto. ;) And like I said, I don't want to drive a pinto. :D

So, as I see it, you got “lucky” that he didn’t want such advanced designs, but Tom actually effectively stopped any designs that even followed YOUR 2 position milling as well. It would seem that we BOTH got the axe on this one. ;)

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by j.t.
Aaron, i designed the body in order to match the RT body rail.(draw lines from the slants and lines on the body rail and you will notice they will all match up with the milling on the body) I do not know how it would look with a different though.

I was talking about a *sight* rail rather than a body rail. It was just a thought because Tom mentioned that he might include an integrated sight rail to cover the back of the valve. Also wondered if the current sight rails would even fit on some of the designs. It isn't a big deal as most of us do not use sights anyway but some people like them.


Originally posted by Shartley
Your example while "telling" me would be like going from a Ferrari to Corvette... What Tom said was just a bit different…. Tom's is stepping back to a Pinto. And like I said, I don't want to drive a pinto.
[/B]

Pinto is a little extreme! You Stang owners are all the same. Once they get this body made (whatever it happens to be) I'll upgrade and teach you a lesson with it!:D

Seriously though I don't think it is going to be a Pinto. My feeling was that AGD wanted to get some design ideas that they *might* incorporate into a totally different design.

[shartley]

aaron_mag-
Now THAT's the spirit! :D

I hope you are right though.

Demand nothing but the best. Expect nothing but the worse. And be pleasantly surprised with whatever you do get. ;)

[Dave]

Just a question about the idea of using a lathe. I have had a little experience around lathes, since my dad owns one. Now, in taking away metal from a round object spinning around, it would take metal off everywhere, right?

Now, how would it work for the top to be milled in a telescoping fashion, because the same would then be applied to the bottom of the body, since it's spinning around and a round tube on a lathe has no up or down. If this is true, then the whole underside of any lathed bodies would need to be milled flat to lay flat against the rail. Even if it were a little taken off from around the front, it means that much is taken away from the contact surface of the bottom where it meets up with the rail.

I don't know if this comes into play or not, but if any design was to be attempted, no matter what, a flat surface with the rail needs to be achieved. Does this rule out the use of a lathe because there is complete symmetry with the top of the body, and the bottom where it meets up with the rail?

-Dave

[someVWkid]

"We would like to think that we will make a couple of simple but cool designs and this will be about half the production of these bodies. The other half would go out raw to be customized by others."

any chance of some of the regular verti-feed plain tubes with cocker threads? i would be very happy with that, maybe just enough meat to mill in something custom. im happy with the whole idea of plain alluminum bodies! thats all we really need considering the myriad of anodizing and milling options. personally i hate those overly milled thousand dollar guns. makes me wonder what these people plan on doing when they grow up. i dont wanna go spending $350 on just a body. this isnt turning into that silly other "auto" gun is it???

[canibus]

i like jt and sharleys designs best

[sniper1rfa]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually I beg to differ. You were talking about 2 or 3 position milling done with a milling machine, while TOM seems to want to stick with lathe work and "milling" that could almost be accomplished with a hack saw and drill press.


bah, my rambling mind was trying to get the point across that the milling would be difficult. in my first post, i asked what he was using on them, knowing he used the lathes for the other stuff he does.
im just a very vague person when im writing. :-)



Just a question about the idea of using a lathe. I have had a little experience around lathes, since my dad owns one. Now, in taking away metal from a round object spinning around, it would take metal off everywhere, right?

Now, how would it work for the top to be milled in a telescoping fashion, because the same would then be applied to the bottom of the body, since it's spinning around and a round tube on a lathe has no up or down. If this is true, then the whole underside of any lathed bodies would need to be milled flat to lay flat against the rail. Even if it were a little taken off from around the front, it means that much is taken away from the contact surface of the bottom where it meets up with the rail.



most industrial lathes have active tooling. its basically a mill bit instead of your average lathe bit. they can stop the lathe and mill slots and drill holes and stuff. unfortunately, they generally arent very fast for milling purposes, as it is a lathe... :-)

as for the slot being too small, its not important if you dont take off too much, as it will still be big enough. :-)

[j.t.]

ok.... made it even more simple.... :(

sorry about all the pics... but very few others are posting any

[RetroEclipseMan]

Well from the sound of it these bodies are going to end up being real basic then. I still love shartley's and if that can't even be done then what can? It looks like I'm just gonna get a plain slug and then go ahead and have it milled along the lines of my design.Also if you could clear this up Tom, is it for sure that the slugs are going to be released so that the valve is covered?

[Hexis]

Here is what I have in mind. The cut outs on the back are minimmag-ish. I have more plans for the vert asa/foregrip. I'm still drawing the rest of it. This is all just conceptial, but based on some machining requirements. However I'm sure Manike will come down on me (in a good way) for desiging damn hard parts to make.

http://www.visi.com/~mjb/Paintball/Hexis-Sluggo.jpg

[magnj]

Nice Jt. I still liek the flames but would be $. I would buy a raw one and send it in for milling

[aaron_mag]

Hexis....is that elongated bar off the end an integrated sight rail? If that design is inexpensive enough for approval with AGD a combination of yours and J.T.'s design would be awesome. Your design still accounts for an Angel Threaded feed tube right?

[Miscue]

Hexis... me likes!

Hey, I think there's enough material to make the body boxy... rather than round. Possible to work on something like this?

[Smoken]

Hexis' gets my vote. That looks very nice. I think it would still look cool even if the sightrail part of it was too expensive to do.

[AcemanPB]

What if you combined JT's and Hexis' designs! I really like both and I think if you incorpotated both into one design it would look really cool. But alas I have no photoshop on this computer :( , so does anyone want to try that?

[j.t.]

I would love to combine our two designs together but it would become far too complicated to mill. Our designs could be too complicated as they are now.:(

[Hexis]

Yes some sort of threaded feed tube. What's there now is basicly just a place holder. With just a plain hole it looked like you couldn't get enough of a spot to thread anything into.

Yes, the back is an intergrated sight rail.

Miscue, one of the details I want to add is a rounded top, but flat sides, with simple milled lines like what's there now. The outside would echo the main rail on at least a normal mag (all I have infront of me to play with). Though it would also look pretty nice with an RT rail.

I also have some simple ideas to tie in the vert ASA/foregrip. Gimme some more time to draw...

[einhander619]

I'm not sure if anyone besides me has been wondering, but why would Hexis' and JT's designs be so hard to pull off on a mill? I mean, if something like milling a tube is this hard to do, how do the dragon timmies and c&c IR3s come out looking like that? Keep in mind I know nothing about milling, so a flame free answer would be appreciated. Oh yeah, cool designs, guys!

[manike]

Originally posted by einhander619
I mean, if something like milling a tube is this hard to do, how do the dragon timmies and c&c IR3s come out looking like that?

Because they take about 3 hours to mill a SFL intimidator, and the production cost to Bob for milling a Dragon intimidator must be several hundred dollars per unit, AFTER he has commited to quite a few units, and that's just for the milling. It also depends on the machines used. WDP have four axis mills which are costly.

Many of these designs could be achieved with 4 axis milling centres only, to get a decent and quick milling time. Last count only Adrenalin and WDP are companies in paintball that I know off who have such machines. Some other outsource to get such work done.

Some of the designs could be achieved with 3 axis mills which are much more commonly found but would be time intensive. Any design which wraps around the equivalent of over 180 degrees of tool movement is going to require 4 axis or multiple set ups. Both of which = cost.

If you want to achieve something which would not make the cost too high you are stuck with pretty simple 3 axis profile cuts. Think original Dark Angel. Many of these ideas, cool as they are, are more in line with the milling Adrenalin did on their angels... Some of the designs could be simplified to be 3 axis cuts but you may not get the desired result shown in such images and it also depends on how much wall thickness we have to play with here.

Since AGD do not have a 4 axis mill I'm guessing a lot of these designs are not going to be production sensible, but that doesn't mean they can't be used to show outside companies what could be done with such bodies. AGDE do have a fourth axis additionn for their mill, but to be able to do continuous four axis milling takes more than positional 4 axis milling, including much more complex software calculations and post processors.

Hey buy me a continuous 5 axis mill and I could cut any (almost) of these designs quickly. But that wouldn't make them cheap.

I wonder how big the market for such a product really is, and wether a simplified extreme body would not be a simpler and easier way to go? Without the modules, just straight feed etc. Much more to mill and the design work etc. Is already done. I don't know how retro fitable it would be but then it all depends on how much of the market you are really going to retro fit to...

It's still cool to see ideas though, they give inspiration for what may be possible. At this point it's early in the process and we are brain storming, so any ideas should be allowed just in case they spark off others. Later when we start to really worry about production we can simplify the choices and designs down. That's kinda how the DFMA process works (Design For Maufacturing and Assembly). First you have to get the ideas, then you work out feasability and how to make them :)

manike

[steveg]

I second Manike's suggestion of a simplified extreme body
I personally would never buy the slug tube,because
for me, I'd like to get rid of the rail.


Just in case my intro wasn't clear, this body is meant to be cut up by the end user or by aftermarket customizers. We will make them custom too, we just need some feedback from you on how to do it. Please photoshop the images and post your results. "AGD"

To be of interest to me, an extrusion with barrel threads
at the front, sear slot and axle pin/bolt hole on the
bottom, spring seat inside and back machined for the valve.
the rest could be just an rectangular extrusion,that
could be assembed with grip, barrel and valve, and be
funtional as-is.

I'm guessing that the slug would be an extrusion to begin
with as well.

Manike come on out of the 5 axis cloud for a while;)
4 side work can be done with a simple inexpense(for cnc)
index table.

There is no shame in outsourcing you machining work, the
world is full of competent machine shops.
I'm almost positive thats how AGD does it now.

[manike]

Originally posted by steveg
To be of interest to me, an extrusion with barrel threads
at the front, sear slot and axle pin/bolt hole on the
bottom, spring seat inside and back machined for the valve.
the rest could be just an rectangular extrusion,that
could be assembed with grip, barrel and valve, and be
funtional as-is.

That wouldn't be too hard to achieve from what we have now. But is it what the market wants and will it retrofit to enough guns... I'm not sure why it wouldn't...


Originally posted by steveg
Manike come on out of the 5 axis cloud for a while;)
4 side work can be done with a simple inexpense(for cnc)
index table.

Absolutely it can. As I stated in my post, but to do may of those designs quickly and cost effectively you need continuous 4 axis. Which is not so simple or inexpensive as 4 sided. 4 sided work with an indexing table to cut many of those designs would require a ball tool and a fine step over and lots of time. With a continuous 4 axis mill and a toroidal cutter, I could make them in minutes if not seconds.

This was supposed to be a cheap option remember. I'm not sure it is.

manike

[steveg]

With a continuous 4 axis mill and a toroidal cutter, I could make them in minutes if not seconds.
In Canada alone there are probably +1000 4 axis continous
horizontal machining centers, never mind verticals, I
wouldn't ever care to guess how many in the US, the usual
ratio is about 10-1.

As Tom has stated there are 3 intended buyers
Me, an individual were only time and talent are relevant.
people can and do(not me:( ) remarkable things with files
dremel tools and handdrills.

Aftermarket, were what they do needs to appeal sufficient
to someone to pay the price.

And finally AGD customs. Only Tom knows how many he wants to make.


As always it's a matter of quantity, one's or two's would
be astronomical 100's expensive, 1000's reasonable (to answer einhander619's JT question

[luke]

in taking away metal from a round object spinning around, it would take metal off everywhere, right?

This was my first question, and from what I've seen it hasn't been answered yet.

I don't see how these bodies can be spun on a lath. Like Dave said, if they are, the design would circle the entire body, they would not match a standard body rail. (?)

Wouldn't ALL the work have to be done on a mill?

[steveg]

As always a picture is worth etc~
http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/sluggo2.jpg

[shartley]

About lathe work…. I don’t know about metal work, but I know that mechanical lathes used for wood do not have to keep things carved in a perfect circle (as in cylinder)… most of the gun stocks made for longarms now days are made by mechanical lathes and they are not “round”.

I have not worked with this equipment myself and am not a machinists, so maybe someone who HAS can expand on this? I think it may open ideas for possible lathe work since it would get people to get away from thinking about perfect cylinder designs.. if I am thinking on the right track…. If not… LOL Oh well, I tried. ;)

[FutureMagOwner]

am i the only one who would think it would look kinda cool with the old rt style sceme to it?

[steveg]

Shartley The short answer is yes it can be done but It's a rare and specialized lathe (that means VERY expensive)

Now thinking out side of the (machining center) box modern
cnc lathes can be had with milling cutters in addition to turning tools.
as you are familiar with wood lathes and
i'd guess woodworking, imagine a router instead of a point
or chisel to remove the wood (I wouldn't be suprised if this
is how gun stock lathes work, having never seen one)

This type of lathe allows you too, first, do any turning you
want and then drill, tap, mill, etc.

most are limited to just the centerline but some (yup again
expensive) can move about 25mm above and below the centerline
We could even use one of manike's toroid cutters.

Finally as I've pointed out It's not necessary for someone
like AGD to own these machines as there are 1000's of "job shops"
around the world that have various cnc, manual and
automatic machinery, that sell their machining services
just as there are people who sell there programming services

[shartley]

Originally posted by steveg
Shartley The short answer is yes it can be done but It's a rare and specialized lathe (that means VERY expensive)

Now thinking out side of the (machining center) box modern
cnc lathes can be had with milling cutters in addition to turning tools.
as you are familiar with wood lathes and
i'd guess woodworking, imagine a router instead of a point
or chisel to remove the wood (I wouldn't be suprised if this
is how gun stock lathes work, having never seen one)

This type of lathe allows you too, first, do any turning you
want and then drill, tap, mill, etc.

most are limited to just the centerline but some (yup again
expensive) can move about 25mm above and below the centerline
We could even use one of manike's toroid cutters.

Finally as I've pointed out It's not necessary for someone
like AGD to own these machines as there are 1000's of "job shops"
around the world that have various cnc, manual and
automatic machinery, that sell their machining services
just as there are people who sell there programming services
Thanks, that helped a lot.

Actually the wood lathes that do the stocks (at least the ones I have seen) are not the type you are talking about (with router bits… but those sound very cool), they are fixed blade…. And as the wood turns, the computer moves the blade in and out. They are turned at a relatively slow speed as compared to what most think about when “turning” something, such as posts, chair legs, etc. The stocks are also rough cut first to the basic shape and then put on the lathe to finish them, as opposed to starting with a simple block or cylinder or wood. I wonder if this type of process would be doable for marker bodies?

Again… just trying to spark ideas and toss out possible alternatives.

I agree that this could be outsourced, but as stated it would depend on how many Tom would want made and the initial investment he wants to make. We know he already outsourcers a good deal of things anyway.

[Panzerr]

Originally posted by manike


That wouldn't be too hard to achieve from what we have now. But is it what the market wants and will it retrofit to enough guns... I'm not sure why it wouldn't...


An extreme body that would retrofit onto any mag would rock!