Marker info needed!!

[Canadian GP]

I have been reading other PB forums and when someone asks for opinions about certain equipment people always seem to own the best possable gear. "Mine is the worlds best (whatever)" Most members of this forum seem much more mature and tell things like they are so I come to you for some advice.

My teenage son owns a RAS (Piranaha clone) semi for the past yr. We have been playing a lot of bushball lately and he has met up with a few experienced players. He now believes he wants to try and start up a team to compete in local tournaments.

At this point he is hot for the 2003 Autococker, stock, not one of the hopped up versions that are out there. From what I've read these markers work well as long as you don't tinker with them. Has anyone here had experience with a cocker or any other tourny marker of this caliber.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Skoad]

I've read these markers work well as long as you don't tinker with them.

your talking about cockers right? :)

I'm pretty sure you HAVE to tinker with them. My friend has one and it seems to have a problem everytime we play, then he sits down for 15-20 minutes messing with it and it works.

I think cockers are a good marker, IF they are working.

[personman]

Naw, tell him to get a classic mag.
Rumors they chop?
For the diffrence of price of a stock cocker and a stock mag, you could purchuse Level 10, which eliminates chopping (trust me, I have owned mine sence I think it was june when I bought it, and not ONE chop sence!) and also greatly reduces recoil.
They are simple, and take little or no effort to use.
All you need to do is oil it and it will be teh gift that keeps on giving.
:D
Im not saying that cockers are bad markers, I have nothing against them. If he honestally is sure he wants a cocker, tell him to go for it. They need a little more attention than a mag, but if thats what he wants, then ok.

[HoppysMag]

almost every marker is a tournemnt marker, cause its the player not the gun.... Mags are good ( duh) cockers are cool. a BKO is a cheap electro version of a bushmaster and impulses can be decent... they have stock 2002 cockers on sale at paintballgear.com with free hinge trigger( 80$ value) for a total of 319$ i think... thats a pretty good deal so if thats what your son wants nows the time...

[big E kingpin]

stock cockers are great guns, espeacally now. older models you would need to put some money into to get them on a nice opperaation level. i have one along with 2 mags (ones an e-mag :D ). i love my cocker, but like he said i spend more time triing to keep it timed and firing consistant then playing with it. if i get one good day out of it with out having to tweek it, im extatic. i would look at a mag, but then again im a mag guy who just happens to own a cocker cuz i like to play with moving parts.

[booyah]

first.

cockers come from the factory in good working order nearly 100% of the time and will stay that way for months on end assuming the user doesnt screw around with it not knowing what they are doing.

second.

a cocker isnt that hard to work on assuming you know what you are doing, and if your technically minded (as in know which way to turn a wrench) its not that hard to figure out how they work on your own.

third.

a paintball doesnt care what gun it was shot from. assuming your gun is consistant, has a good barrel fit, and you can shoot it as quick as you want to, any (i repeat ANY) paintball gun will work as a tourny level marker.

finally.

I strongly suggest checking out a gun that comes from the factory with some form of anti-chopping attempt (level 10, free flow, eye, cops, etc) in the new age of tourny markers. This little thing acts as great insurance to being able to stay funtional in the game longer. Personally i suggest a levl 10 rt pro (that way you get a nice double trigger, no chop, and a great consistant/fast/reliable gun) but hey, i've owned 3 bushmasters, 4 cockers (from stock to the complete custom job i am finishing now) 3 RT's, my classic mag (my main gun) and a good dozen blowback guns.

take your pick, I love mags personally

-Booyah

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

Cockers...

Cockers are a GREAT gun, probably the most prolific marker in existence. You can function with a Cocker for a long time without even having to ever touch it. Plus almost every paintball field worth their salt either employs or as someone available to help with Cockers.

I would wait until the 2k3s come out if you can, exceptional milling and come with hinge standard, or get the System X, you get a lot of marker for the price, although the pnuematics are not the best thing ever they are functional and do their business.

Cockers work fine, although if you like to tinker with things expect to spend many an afternoon experimenting. Quite simply if you don't touch them generally few things will go out of time, occasionally a rod will begin to slip or somesuch and you may have to tighten it up a bit but other than that no biggie. The cocker is actually not that hard to understand once you understand it is just basicly three different but connected systems.

With a little tinkering you can halve the trigger pull mulitple the effiency by half and have it almost never chop balls, all for the price of a valve tool, spring set and your time and paint.

If you have any questions feel free to ask here or trot over to air-powered.com, we will be more than happy to help you in any way possible.

Mags, are also a good deal right now but it is a love hate relationship with the on off feeling trigger. I myself love both but there is something special about the silky smoothness of a nice cocker slider.

Az

[-=Squid=-]

My oppinnion on cockers? Leave them alone. If yo uwant an upgraded cocker get one that way. The more you put on them the less they seemt to work right. In my oppinnion the stock WGP cockers will give you less problems that any others. I say gof for it.

[FooTemps]

Cockers are really good guns imo. Just leave them be. Don't try to tinker w/ them unless you really know what you're doing.

[minimag187]

An impulse for $399 at pbgear.com is good. They work well on Co2 which can be a plus in certain cases (more shots per tank). Or a lvl 10 mag would be another good choice.

[JEDI]

I'm going to have to disagree with the "leave a cocker alone" idea, or that adding to them makes them worse. Now mind you, you either have to know what you're doing, or bring it to some one who does.

I have a 2002 vert cocker. Sice the IAO, heres the list of upgrades. 1)Kapp reflex swing, 2)AKA lightning bolt, 3)Bellsales Hollowpoint 3-way, 4)Palmer micro-rock LPR, 5)Sindwinder Reg, 6)Kapp ball detent, 7)Kapp evo-style pull pin for bolt & 8)Freak stainless. Plus many other non-performance enhancing goodies.

Soon to have a Palmer Quick Ram, and an AKA pump rod. This is my first cocker, I put all these parts on myself to give you an idea. This gun Rips! I would put its performance up against any big name custom cocker.

There is a reason there are so many after market cocker parts, and companies making them...They work!

Again though, the disclaimer is: You either have to know what you're doing, or know someone who does.

[Ov3rmind]

Cockers are great guns!:D
I'll have to agree with most, don't tinker if you don't know what you're doing. I'd suggest reading up on them a lot, and ask local airsmiths about any questions you may have. Once you learn how a Cocker works and some basic trouble shooting knowledge, you really wont have to worry about anything with a Cocker. 99% of Cocker problems can be fixed my simply making a few adjustments or replacing an O ring or two, nothing too big. Once you have upgraded it to your standards and have it timed and tuned, they'll shoot like a dream.

One thing I'd HIGHLY suggest before your son goes out and buys one, is to shoot one. They feel very different than most paintball markers, and some people hate it. It's always best to see how the marker actually shoots before you make a major purchase. I don't know if he has shot one before, but if he hasn't, just take this into consideration.

Anyway, hope he likes it. So far I've been extremely satisfied with my gun!

[Trench]

If he wants one, then take him to the local pro shop and shoot one a couple times... Be sure to put a e-mag in his hands to though... Maybe not cause your paying I guess :-) Lol... Everything is personal preference...

Cockers are very good guns... Just be sure you got a tech guy around that knows them very well...

[hardr0ck68]

i love cockers, have him buy a cocker and everyone else you know buy a cocker...why? oh just because theres nothin better than hearing ::clunk, grrnt' ppppfffffftttttt:: cause you know you are now effectivly playin aginst a 4 man team not a 5.....one thing about cockers, THEY WILL FAIL...so will every paintgun at one point or anoter but cockers have an annoying way of doing it just when you dont need it to....when your in the shop dry firing...perfact. at home test firing behind the house....so good it hurts. First big tourny ::clunk, grrnt, ppppfffffffttttt::

[HoppysMag]

Originally posted by hardr0ck68
i love cockers, have him buy a cocker and everyone else you know buy a cocker...why? oh just because theres nothin better than hearing ::clunk, grrnt' ppppfffffftttttt:: cause you know you are now effectivly playin aginst a 4 man team not a 5.....one thing about cockers, THEY WILL FAIL...so will every paintgun at one point or anoter but cockers have an annoying way of doing it just when you dont need it to....when your in the shop dry firing...perfact. at home test firing behind the house....so good it hurts. First big tourny ::clunk, grrnt, ppppfffffffttttt::

lol its funny, those sounds remind me of playing against a cocker first time... i went "what the 'heck' is that? a staple gun?"

[Brian68mag]

the 2003's are great markers!
Let him shoot some other markers aswell so he makes the right decision.
The 68 mag is probably the most reliable marker on the market and can run with anything when set up correctly with a good user.
The impulse can be good, its fast but it is less reliable then a mag', its also slightly bigger, the main advantage is it runs great on CO2.
The bushmaster is one of my favorite electro's. Its called the poor-mans angel sometimes and it can rip! I find them to be pretty darn reliable and they run well on CO2 but are better off on N2, i perfer them over impulses personally. Alot of people will disagree with me.
The stock cocker can be a very reliable gun, it really boils down to the user behind it 99% of the time. If your son is willing to learn how it operates and how to time and repair it, be it by watching video's or having a tech give him lessons it will be a pleasurable experiance for him and you. If you son is willing to do that if he really wants that cocker i'd say go for it.

I prefer mags for a few reasons, they are small and allow me to play tight. Im used to them so i hit what i aim at. Im good with the trigger but i struggle with cocker triggers. They feel more balanced in my hands then cockers do. I never have to repair my mag between games, its my time to talk, help other people or just relax. Its also less stressful knowing my marker with work for me everytime i pull the trigger, i dont have that feeling with other markers, even though i havent had many problems.
Some people feel completely the opposite, its a matter of preferance and taste.
Goodluck to you and your son, i hope he picks the right marker for HIM.

[Ov3rmind]

i love cockers, have him buy a cocker and everyone else you know buy a cocker...why? oh just because theres nothin better than hearing ::clunk, grrnt' ppppfffffftttttt:: cause you know you are now effectivly playin aginst a 4 man team not a 5.....one thing about cockers, THEY WILL FAIL...so will every paintgun at one point or anoter but cockers have an annoying way of doing it just when you dont need it to....when your in the shop dry firing...perfact. at home test firing behind the house....so good it hurts. First big tourny ::clunk, grrnt, ppppfffffffttttt::
:rolleyes:
I keep saying it, and I will always say it. Take care of your Cocker and it will take care of you. Clean it, oil it, and make sure you have your stuff Loc Tited up (I think that's the main problem, people don't put Loc Tite where it needs to go and their timing slips). And lastly, don't tinker if it's working fine! My gun has yet to let me down during a game, that's more than I can say for my old Spyder, and beleive it or not, my friend's old Micro Mag (ball detent AND powerfeed came loose during a game, it became misfeed and chop heaven). The vast majority of guns will work when you take care of them. Electronic failures are one of the only things I'd be too terribly worried about, which is what makes the Mag and Cocker great guns.

[Trigger_Happy]

The micromag isn't made by AGD! It's made by PTP! Also, the ball detant on a mag is not external (problem solved) and the Powerfeed on a mag is not removable (problem solved).

Now, after backing the mag (it deserves it), I'd like to say that cockers can be a great gun! You say AOers are unbiased, and that is more true here than most places, but don't expect the Autaomags forum to keep from pointing out everything wrong with a cocker, and everything great about the mag!

I leave you with this one warning: Running a mag on CO2 is NOT a good idea. I tried everything. No good. So if you need to run CO2 in your area, I'd reccomend a cocker + palmer stabilizer, or possibly an Impulse or another decent performer on CO2.

*Sigh* I loved my mag.....now it's the cocker for me. A good "second place" I guess. :(

[Creative Mayhem]

I've owned 2 cockers in the past, and both of them didn't agree with me. I just couldn't keep them working, no matter how much I tinkered with it. I'm technically profficient, like I said, it just didn't agrre with me. I had techs look at them including Todd Adamson of Aftershock, he got one of them to work for all of 10 balls. I have had my mag for 10+ yrs and absolutely no probs, it's the same as the first day I bought it. You can't beat a mag, very low maintenance, virtually no moving parts, and accurate. Accuracy however, is like most have said, you need to match paint size to the barrel to get good accuracy, but this is minor. Your sone needs a marker that is gonna last, work everytime, because if he has to fix it too often he'll get rid of it, or get fed up totally and forget pball. Don't snicker at the fed up part, I know 2guys that left paintball cause thier markers pissed them off. If your son has his heart set on the cocker, so be it, but I highly recommend that he try one for a FULL day of play. Other than that, get a mag.


C Mayhem

[digitard]

I agree <b>GO WITH THE MAG</b>

I have a classic Mag I bought in 97 ... and I still use it today (although I'm finally upgrading it) .... it has the best stock valve (minus the RT/EMAG/ETC) you can get in my opinion and its a great reliable gun w/ no exposed parts.

Plus if you do wanna upgrade and tinker its VERY simple ...

Sincerely,
Dave K

[ICOM]

Hey hardrock you just explained what happened to my brother at that 3 man at paintball arena. Works great at home and at shops. And when we went to the tourny their, clunk (yade yada) all messed up. According to Jon their it was at the shop and he tried convicning him into buying a mag. Was pretty funny at the moment.

[puckmaster]

The only thing I like about cockers is the back block and the feel. you can rip on them easily.

[battlegroup]

I have owned an autococker and worked at several shops fixing markers so I consider myself very proficient. I could keep my cocker working but it took a lot of tinkering to get it smooth. They're good markers but If you are not willing to put in the extra time to really get to know the gun and how to work with it, I would get something else.