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View Full Version : just about to give up... (technical help needed)



TippmannMan
11-15-2002, 09:43 PM
sorry but in an effort to present this to all AO members i have posted in both paintball talk and technical help. this will be the last time i do anything like this but i desperately need a solution.

ive only had my e-mag for a week and i already feel the gun is screwed. maybe nobody knows. maybe nobody cares. but i am going to try to post one last time in hopes someone can identify and solve the problems i am experiencing. this is going to be a fairly long post so take a breather.

my new e-mag has been in my possession for just about a week. its number 01685. it came packaged seperately with the level 10 kit to give you the sense that it is one of more recent ones. to power my e-mag i purchased a 88 ci 4500 psi flatline system (the regulator and tank). the regulator for the flatline is black/purple to give you a sense of when it was made. to connect these two i used a non-specific brand macroline using 90 degree adapters which connected the e-mag (retro) valve to the flatline regulator. in terms of maintenance i have completely disassembled and reassembled the e-mag with the exception of the e-mag (retro) valve. for the flatline i have only unscrewed the regulator nut so the only flatline parts that have been exposed are the regulator nut/lock nut and spring pack. in hopes of a better analysis i will now list some things that i think might have been harmful to the gun and might have caused some of the problems i am experiencing: to degas the system i sometimes would remove the valve from the e-mag. i have had the on/off pin blow off at me once but observed no damage or missing parts. and sometimes i would slowly unscrew the regulator nut out completely to degas my system. this worked well but i remember someone telling me it could damage something.

ok that was the background. i hope you could understand it. if you have any questions what so ever please ask and i will gladly clarify. at this point i will take any help.

the problems i am experiencing seemed to have originated after the installation of the level 10 bolt but could have been persistent ever since but i may not have noticed it.

problem one
i typically set the output psi (pressure going into the marker) at 800-900 psi. some people have been confused by this. i can think of no other way to clarify. its the pressure indicated by the gauge farthest from the tank. anyway when i fire the psi drops down to about 600 and sometimes stays there but if it does recharge back up to 800-900 it takes about 1-2 seconds (which is a long time) and usually resets at a higher psi such as 950-1000. this is a major problem since i cannot shoot more than 2 or 3 balls consecutively. i have no idea what might cause this. as i stated before the only exposed parts of the regulator have been the regulator nut/lock nut and the spring pack. in no way have i operated on the inside of the regulator and the system is brand new. on a less severe note my output gauge is at 200 even when the system is completely degassed. this has been only a recent problem. so there is a chance my output gauge is off by 200.

problem two
when live firing in my backyard i noticed the e-mag was very inaccurate at ranges of 30 feet (much less accurate than my tippmann model 98). i had a typical shot spread of about 3 feet at a distance of 30 feet. im no marksman but i do not consider myself so bad that i would cause such a spread. this was acheived prior to my installation of the level 10 bolt. another problem i experienced was being unable to fire quickly. i have a ricochet 2K loader and at most was able to pull 2 shots in quick succession. not sure if its the bolt not recharging fast enough or the loader.

problem three
this is probably the most correctable of all my problems since it deals with the level 10 bolt. my setup is the longest spring, size 1 carrier (i lubricated the black o-ring) and two shims. when introducing air to the system i hear the familiar cocking noise and there are no leaks. to test the setup i taped some string onto a paintball and slowly lowered it partially into the breach. i got the satisfying fssssssh noise as the bolt stopped on the ball. and the bolt resetted itself. however when i fire on the ball in an attempt to break it several times my bolt stops and fails to reset and i have to push it back in with a squeegee.

thank you for taking the time to read this. i really hope someone with the knowledge will be able to answer all or most of these questions. i have posted these things before but usually received an incomplete or irrelevant response. this will be my last try if i dont get any responses ill have to resort to sending this whole thing to AGD. thanks again and you will definitely get a huge thanks if you can figure any of this out.

yeahthatsme
11-15-2002, 09:57 PM
well for the level ten problem sounds like maybe the o-ring has broken in and/or the carrier is too big.

for the input pressure sounds like something is screwy in you flatline. you should send it to agd to be checked out.

the accuracy is probably due to the drop-off in the valve.

thats all i can think of now.

TippmannMan
11-15-2002, 10:00 PM
thanks i really appreciate it. keep em coming fellas

Spray Painter
11-15-2002, 10:06 PM
i posted this in your other thread, but it could be a bad reg seat

personman
11-15-2002, 10:15 PM
Your level 10 problem has nothing to do with the carriers. It sounds ( to me ) like you need to add another shim or two.

cphilip
11-15-2002, 10:31 PM
No... shims are not his problem I think. I believe it could end up being a too lose carrier BUT!!! I am inclined to say try the middle spring first. You say your using the longest one. That is the most difficut one to get set up. Try the middle one that has the cut edge on one end. Put the cut end to the bolts bumper. Often erratic behaviour occurs with the longest spring. I do not use that one on anything I have. I use the middle one. And I get good reliability. Remember to oil the marker well too. If the spring alone does not fix it then try that next smaller carrier. The .5 in your case it sounds like. Have you turned up your velocity enough on the back of the valve? You may even need to check that. Did you even Crono after you set up. YOu may be shooting WAY too low and that could be causing all kings of problems. You see I still have more questions but I am trying to throw out some answers too. But you should have turned it up a lot if you set up that long spring. And then you must crono it to see if you are right.


He said his innacuracy was occuring BEFORE level 10 and certainly if your tank is acting up like that its a possible culprit but you also do not say anything about the paint matching the barrel well. It very well may be that your Tipman has a different barrel bore and it matches well with the paint you are using. But yet does not match your emag barrel at all. Search around and do some research on paint to barrel match. You will learn more about this.

All this aside you cannot expect to set up level 10 nor get this marker running well with an erratic tank. YOu must fix that first and find out what is going on there. NO marker will function well with a HPA tank doing what you describe. Check for obstructions in that Macro and the fittings. Try and blow through them and inspect the holes to make sure you didn't get anything in there like a peice of teflon tape or some thing that would occlude them.

Even though this is in the wrong Forum and duplicate in your case you sound frustrated and I am going to overlook that so we can keep you trying and help you.

So... first thing Fix the tank and air to the marker issue.
Second try the middle spring and if not fixed go down a carrier too.
third match the barrel to the paint. Get some that matches

In that order!

Skoad
11-15-2002, 10:54 PM
all else fails, ship it to AGD?

cphilip
11-15-2002, 10:58 PM
YEP!!!:D

TippmannMan
11-15-2002, 10:59 PM
thanks alot guys i didnt expect such a good response. seems like the general consensus is to fix the tank. i could find out on monday but do you guys know if AGD will repair my flatline for free if i am under the warranty (which i am) ;) i think it would be ridiculous if i had to pay to get it fixed cause its brand new

cphilip
11-15-2002, 11:05 PM
Call and talk to Jon Monday if he is back (he has been sick) have your serial number on your tank handy. I will alert him to this thread. He will give you an RA number to return it for repair. I am fairly certain it will be taken care of. Sounds new from what you said? Who did you buy it from? Perhaps they would just exchange it...You may be close to Pev's paintball where RobAGD works and he would fix it for you too. You know where that is? There are several of them. I am talking about the one where Rob Hoover works. He is in the DC Alexandria area. He is a pretty darn good AGD tech.

TippmannMan
11-15-2002, 11:08 PM
i submitted a return authorization request. i hope i wasnt supposed to call instead? the tank is brand spankin new. i bought it online from action village. appreciate the concerns i think the warranty will cover my repair (hopefully exchange like you said :))

warpfeedmod
11-15-2002, 11:10 PM
More then likely given the superb customer service AGD has I would say they'll fix it for free. At most if its still under warrenty you pay shipping to them. Just make sure if/when you ship it to let the air out first.

As for the level 10, I've had my kit since the early beta's were on sale in the store for like $65 and I'm still piddling with it. Although I will tell you once you "break it in" and get it working correctly, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

Do you have another air source or a friend with another air source that you can possibly test with to verify that your problem might be stemming from teh messed up tank?

cphilip
11-15-2002, 11:11 PM
Well look at Marcia's annoucment up top here about delays in the RA's due to everyone having a bug at AGD. Be patient as they are all down with some kind of Flu. It may be back to normal by Monday however.

ICOM
11-16-2002, 12:41 AM
I had the same problem with my 3K flatline. I have no clue how i fixed it. I took reg apart and cleaned and oiled it pretty much and it worked.

Dayspring
11-16-2002, 01:35 AM
Well, if I remember correctly, if you put the spring pack (I think) in backwards in the Flatline reg, you'll have some nasty issues with pressure and what not. Check that out.

oldsoldier
11-16-2002, 09:30 AM
Tippmanman; they'll take care of you. I bought a 45k flatline in June, sent it in in Oct because something inside went bad (tank wouldnt hold air), they took it, fixed it, returned it with no questions asked. Just make sure you call to get an RA number first.

TippmannMan
11-16-2002, 07:46 PM
problem solved :) im lucky enough live relatively close to pevs so i stopped by and got RobAGD to work on it. i dont know why i had so many problems but it was solved really quickly. yes i was aware that putting the spring pack in backwards causes the psi to rocket upwards but that wasnt the problem. some of it had to do with improper level 10 installation i think and then all he did was crank up to psi to something like a 1000. but now another problem exists. occasionally my bolt will "stop" on nothing. i will be dry firing and then the bolt just goes fsssssh as if a paintball were in the way. this only happens once every many of shots but it still could be annoying every once in a while. RobAGD couldnt say what it could be. but nevertheless im more than pleased at the results. if you are fortunate enough to live near pevs give RobAGD a visit

Havoc_online
11-17-2002, 03:13 AM
hehehe level 10's still giving ya trouble Rob?:p

did he chrono your marker? may of been a velocity issue.

TippmannMan
11-17-2002, 01:35 PM
im sure he chronographed it. i mean... come on. its rob :)

RobAGD
11-17-2002, 02:35 PM
Chrono ?? Was that ?

Naw his mag was right at 295-300fps range and it was soild.

His LP guage is off a bit.

He is having some bolt/barrel issues with some binding. I put my big bore PMI on it and it was fine, his stock barrel was causing some issues.

I told him he needed to sand down his bolt a tad.

As to the stopping on nothing, I have a few ideas on that, I think his soleniod pluger depth os a tad long cause the sear to hand on the edge of the bolt or drag on it enough to cause it to vent and reset. I didnt have my calipers ( they went missing ) So I couldnt check his on/off pin length and plunger depth.

-Robert

TippmannMan
11-17-2002, 06:49 PM
yea that basically sums it up :D