xgames rejects paintball

[Lentz]

i read an article in an espn magazine the other day and it said how paintball wont ever be in the xgames because guys running around in the forest would not appeal to the public. except for gi joe wanabe men. It quoted some one from a webpage saying it wont be on tv cause the man with the biggest gun wins.

I found this article totaly bs. paintball used to be on tv on ESPN. so why dog it now that its grown and has more players then people who snowboard which is part of the x games. i think they when espn thought about including paintball into the games they should have talked to a reasonable representitive from the industry. That would have been able to show and explain to these people why it would be a great thing for the xgames.
think about a 3 on 3 speedball tourny with your favorite pros battling it out.

[zvanut]

if that is what really happened i think espn deserves another letter from me... heck TK u should send them 1 as the industry's leadin company owner.

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My Mag can beat your spyder w/ no paint.~~~me

Dont worry if it wasnt for losers like u, There couldnt be winners like me.~~~me

My mag is my mag, not yours, so go get your own one and be happy like me. ~me

[AGD]

ESPN does not want to show paintball because a big person in this industry sued them the last time they showed paintball. I can't say who it is because he might sue me. We will have to be the number one sport for ESPN to be interested.

If anyone has the specific magazine that this was printed in I would be interested in seeing it.

Thanks

AGD

[M-a-s-sDriver]

Sued them for what?

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Drink! for you know not whence you came, nor why. Drink! for you know not why you go, nor where.

[RobAGD]

Tom didnt you mean to say an Indrusty Midget ?

-Robert

[Marbelizer]

Without actually saying who sued the networks, why exactlly did they sue, and what did they hope to do for the sport by doing that???

[MagMan5446]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marbelizer:
Without actually saying who sued the networks, why exactlly did they sue, and what did they hope to do for the sport by doing that???</font>

He just wanted to make some money.

------------------
I don't cry when my dog runs away
I don't get angry with the bills I have to pay
I don't get angry when my mom smokes pot,
Hits the bottle and goes right to the rocks.
F*ckin' and fightin'
It's all the same,
Livin' with Louie-dog's the only way to stay sane
Let the lovin' Let the lovin' come back to me...

Sublime
R.I.P. Bradley James Nowell
2.22.68-5.25.96

[Chaos]

it was probably bob long or someone like that. A player that was on TV and they didn't have the permission to put him publically displayed or something stupid like that. Wouldn't we all like to take a hammer and beat the guy till his brains fall out and stretch his arms and legs till then rip out of their sockets then make tiny papercut incisions till he bleeds to death and... well maybe just i do....

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~ChAoScLoWnZ
chaosclownz@magcentral.org
MAG CENTRAL (http://www.magcentral.org)

Ever felt like picking up a knife and stabbing yourself, just to see what it'd feel like? Welcome to my world.

[Motomaz]

Thats so stupid I think they should have paintball in the xgames. But they should ask the compaines if it's all right first of course. But still that would kick a field goal if they had hyper ball or sup air and they did filming as good as what they did in push it would be great to watch on tv. Because now a days paintball is coming to a great trend. But that trend will just buy cheaper modles of the gun shoot and try to shoot some people on a local feild of theres. Then one day there going to see a nicer gun and that guys is probitly going to woop his poly-wogs because usally the guy with the nice gun will have plaied the game before he went out and spent some serous cash for a gun. But then that kid is going to want to have a gun like that other guy on the feild because the kid with the crappier gun will think it's becasue of the guys gun hes better. So then this will happen more and more to people it will get bigger and bigger. Then one day there going to go into nepl or anything like that like I do now.

So I think that it's really stupid that they don't have paintball in the X-games. I do understand that they got sued. But like motor cross, I like to ride motor cross before the X-games and now look at what the biggest thing is now for the X-games. It's not Tony Hawk doing a nine hundred. It's people like Cary Heart doing a back flip. If you ever went to a gravity game when Cary Heart did the back flip there was the biggest crowed they had for any event.

So to sum it up the newer sport are getting a big big look at becasue there new and they want to see what it's like. But it may be bad for tv if they just get some joe smoe on the X-games. Because then It wouldn't look good and then they would show there welts if they got hit. But if you have pros they don't cry about getting hit they just got out on the feild and kick some soggy corn flakes. And then if they ask the pros if it hurts they will probitly say no because it really doesn't. Then all the little kids will think that it doesn't hurt and go out and try paintball. Which will make companies like AGD ect sky rocket.

OK im done. I hope you got my point!

Thanks,
Andrew


[This message has been edited by Army (edited 08-12-2001).]

[ReTroMagBoy]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RobAGD:
Tom didnt you mean to say an Indrusty Midget ?

-Robert</font>

Rocky???? lol http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

[SHAG]

Hi,

I'm sorry that all people from the North East are lawyers. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif However if it is the person you are speaking of, I knew a person here who worked for the guy and said he would sue his own mother if she hit him with a car crossing the street. But I will not mention names either cause I don't want my name next ot Tom Kaye in that light. I rather have it next to Tom Kaye in the good light.

Later,
Alan


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Paintball cannot be that big. No one has really been able to sponsor a stock car or a race yet. (local people do not count in this case :))

[billmi]

I don't blame him for an instant for suing, ESPN screwed paintball, not the other way around. I believe there's a brief article about it somewhere on WARPIG in the articles section, about paintball air times on ESPN. After they finally aired those shows they did well, and ESPN wrote a letter that was presented at World Cup 1999 at an industry meeting expressing interest in another show. I suspect more than anything they haven't been presented with a good show package yet. So, if anyone out there wants to fork over the cash and time to layout a show concept and produce 2-4 pilot shows, go for it, and show it to ESPN, they might want it.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

------------------
Computer / Paintball geek
Technical Editor, World And Regional Paintball Information Guide - http://www.WARPIG.com
Producer, Paintball Television - http://www.PigTV.net

[RoadDawg]

I read this as well. I found it a little disturbing, just by the way they quoted a guy of saying "The man with the biggest gun wins." It's in this month's ESPN the Magazine where they talk about the heisman or something like that. The article is like a paragraph at most. It's under the xgames rejected or some crappy stuff like that.

[williamb]

I love paintball. I love playing it. Let's be honest though.. for someone who doesn't play, the current format is really boring to watch.

The current format can be equated to a bunch of kids in clown suits hiding behind blowup dolls with guns.

Snowboarding (which I also love), skateboarding, and the like are in the X-games because they are amusing to watch for people who do not do the sports themselves. It is entertaining to watch people flying, spinning, and jumping in the air. It is even more entertaining to watch people screwing up the above stunts in some spectacular manner that gets them hurt. People enjoy seeing other people doing crazy things, whether they succeed or not.

The only way someone is going to "screw up" and get hurt playing paintball, would be for them to have their goggles fall off and loose an eye. That wouldn't be entertaining, nor would it be good for the sport. True, there is the odd injury, as I'm sure Miscue can attest to, and it is moderately enjoyable to watch someone being bunkered. . but the real joy in this sport is playing, not watching.

Let's be honest though. The game will be far more competitive without Mountain Dew sponsoring someone.

If anyone can come up with a creative concept to make paintball fun for non-players to watch, then I'm sure someone would love to air it.

Just my opinion.

-W

[Sgt Carnage]

Check this new reality show out! MANHUNT - 3 "Hunters" with paint markers, hunt down 13 contestants........

What do you guys think? Will this lead to something??? Or just help our sport a little?

Live Free Or Die!!

[shartley]

MANHUNT

http://www.automags.org/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000027.html

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“The richest man is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.”

[Eagle]

I saw part of Manhunt the other night, I think it is mor apt to give us a bad rep. The markers looked to much like real guns, they used inadaquet face protection, and they were shot from almost point blank range.

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Die Screaming

Brass Eagle Stingray
12oz CO2
VL 200

[dansim]

i think we should just have trading cards like w/ pros in action not in action,just there guns,team shots,big company logo stickers bunker shots stuff like that or actoin figures so everyone can blow the heads off the players they dont like

[AGDPaintball]

well actully there rite i used to watch it when i was like 5 they would have 10 on 10 man speedball so that artical is not b-s.. well there are more reasons why they cant put paintball in xgames cause 1 money cause its free to get in so its kida hard for them to put money into it and also where would they have the ppl sit cause u cant get close seats in less u put some kinda see through netting or somethin but u know that will rip or get shot through sometime.

[Eagle]

There is a netting specifically designed for paintball, it's at least ten feet tall and designed to be resistent to being shot through

------------------
Die Screaming

Brass Eagle Stingray
12oz CO2
VL 200

[Hasty8]

Shartley -

I read your post in the above link and while I agree that the show is stupid I totally disagree with your assumption that it will do nothing for paintball.

On one had it could very well drive people to the sport. They see it for what it is, a game where you get to shoot people with paint, and since it is much more in the open now then say ten years ago it will much easier to get information on it. This is good.

On the other, it could, POSSIBLY, lead to the banning of the sport. My reasoning is this. Brass Eagle and one or two other companies sell their products in a lot of sporting goods stores. Most of them are pre-packaged self goods. A kid could walk into one of these stores and walk out with a paintball gun very easily ( or worse yet, a wild and unruly teenager(Not a flame. We were all unruly as teenagers.)). They should not be sold this way. They should be behind a counter where a store clerk has to get it for you. They do this with bb guns, why not paintball guns.

Second, that clerk had better know darn well what he is talking about. I heard something in the Sports Authority near my house last week that made me go balistic on the store clerk and probably saved that kid an eye.

A little boy, in his early tens had talked his mother into coming to the store to get him his first marker. I was there to get some powerlets for my Phantom and was behind them in line. When the mother asked the clerk if her son needed any face protection like the JT masks that were so high up the shelves that you would have to use a ladder to get them the clerk said not really, these toys don't shoot to fast. I immediately interupted him and let her know that not only do these "toys" shoot very fast but that playing and maintainence requires the use of a mask. The clerk then gets all huffy with me, saying I don't know what I am talking about. When I asked him if he ever even played the game he simply walked away. The mother ended up buying the mask and also agreed to go to my local paintball store to get a bit more information on the game.

My point is this. America is currently a very litigious society and people love to ban stuff. If it is seen as dangerous or bad then ban it. Look at skateboarding. Banned in most public places. Snowboarding. Banned from most trails and even a few mountains in my area(This is the one instance of where a major push by snowboarding companies, especially industry leader Burton to educate the rest of the population has made a positive difference as more and more trails and mountains are allowing boarders).

All that we need to happen is for one kid to accidentaly get hurt, because of something he sees on tv and our fun is gone and if you think I'm kidding your deadly mistaken. There are lawsuits going on right now in Texas where adult paintball players are getting sued because they caused a minor to get a bruise (Texas law makes is a misdemeanor for an adult to bruise a minor). And with companies like Brass Eagle selling their products as pre-packaged shelf goods I see the time coming when a kid is going to get seriously hurt. Then some up and comer legal eagle will take up the case and champion the boy, saying that if these guns were outlawed then this never would of happened, public opinion would swell and laws would be passed. At the very least field operator insurance rates would go so high that no one would ever be able to pay the grounds fees.

We can't sit by and hope that a stupid show will just die off. That show reaches millions upon millions of people right in their homes and all it would take is for one kid to get hurt.

This is one time where I would prefer not to take that one in a million bet.

[shartley]

Hasty8:
Thank you very much for such a well thought out and respectful post. Good job.

The only thing I will say is that I fully understand where you are coming from.

But with that said, I would like to point out shows like:
"Fear Factor"
"Jacka@@"
"Battle Bots"
"WWF"
etc.

All of them could very well fit into the concerns you feel for this new show. I think the general public should not be judged by the actions of a few idiots. And I think the general public knows "supervised entertainment" (even if totally stupid) VS a true Sport and Industry.

Just my thoughts. I hope I am correct about this one.

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“The richest man is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.”

[mxpxpunk1220]

i always thought that watching paintball on espn was kinda cool. it got me pumped to play just like i watch skateboarding videos to get me pumped. i don't see what would be soo bad about putting paintball on the TV for the public to see. sure it may not be the most exciting sport to watch but it is still a awy of introducing it to others. also maybe they could keep us updated on like tourny's and stuff just like they do with any other sport. that would be cool.

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Evan Rapp

[Ninja B0Y]

It was not Bob Long. Bob Long's just a player. Granted he has some pull in the industry, but he's not a promoter and I doubt he would even take the time and energy to sue a company thats owned by Disney.

I believe its more along the lines of some whos owns a pro team...in the NPPL...in the east coast...that's not Lockout...

[Sgt Carnage]

I think our time will come. Hopefully in my lifetime.
If you think that's bad look at what is now an Olympic event.

http://www.allsports.com/olympics/curling/

OMG! What a joke.

------------------
Semper Fi

[Hasty8]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by shartley:
Hasty8:
Thank you very much for such a well thought out and respectful post. Good job.

The only thing I will say is that I fully understand where you are coming from.

But with that said, I would like to point out shows like:
"Fear Factor"
"Jacka@@"
"Battle Bots"
"WWF"
etc.

All of them could very well fit into the concerns you feel for this new show. I think the general public should not be judged by the actions of a few idiots. And I think the general public knows "supervised entertainment" (even if totally stupid) VS a true Sport and Industry.

Just my thoughts. I hope I am correct about this one.

</font>

Never heard of Fear Factor so I have nothing to say on it. Jack@$$ I think runs disclaimers saying that stuff shouldn't be done. Battlebots? If my kid was building a robot I think I would know about it. WWF? They already got lawsuits. One of the stipulations from their earlier lawsuits was that the actors had to refer to it as sports entertainment and not wrestling.

My point is this. Jack@$$, BB, WWF. All these shows can be blamed for a kid getting hurt because it is easily traceable to he show. Robots for BB, wrestling for WWF and stupidity for Jack@$$

But if some young kid goes and buys a brass eagle paintgun off the shelf and gets huirt with it I'm just really afraid that it will be the sport that ends up getting spanked for it.

Just my opinion. I may be wrong.

[PaintballChannel]

** This message answers a lot of other messages, so it will be long


<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AGD:

ESPN does not want to show paintball because a big person in this industry sued them the last time they showed paintball. I can't say who it is because he might sue me. We will have to be the number one sport for ESPN to be interested.

If anyone has the specific magazine that this was printed in I would be interested in seeing it.

Thanks

AGD</font>

Yes, I to would like to see this article - so I can write explain to these people that paintball is a SPORT - not something you see in the Soldier of Fortune magazines...and has nothing to do with, as one newspaper reporter once wrote, "watching truck pulls, 'swilling' beer, and eating pork rinds."

As far as paintball needing to be a #1 sport to be on ESPN, then why to they have stuff like poker and billiards? Lord knows I want to sit there and watch people smoke and play cards. :P

As far as Manhunt goes, UPN is considering, and will most likely, pull it. They are under a bunch of allegations that a lot (30+) scenes were re-shot, with scripts, are being investigated by the FCC, and their last neilsen ratings had them in 110th place.

I've said this time and time again that paintball *NEEDS* a body of representatives to defend it in Washington, to the public, and to the soccer moms of the world. Paintball is getting attacked from all sides, but has no defense - except for the grassroots campaigns. Paintball needs something like the NRA, excpet maybe the NPA. Until then, America and the world will go on thinking that paintball players are card carrying members of the KKK or something.

[PaintballChannel]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by williamb:
I love paintball. I love playing it. Let's be honest though.. for someone who doesn't play, the current format is really boring to watch.

The current format can be equated to a bunch of kids in clown suits hiding behind blowup dolls with guns.</font>

Actually, the current format of tournament paintball would be good to show. Two factors would make it even better - if players could get more aggresive (bunker diving, slides, etc), and if sideline coaching was allowed.

Now, I know some people may be against coaching, but 1) if people know where you are, you're going to move and 2) if you have a few hundred people in the stands yelling stuff, you arent going to hear much anyway...People coach in all sports - baseball, football, basketball - it's just that the players cant hear them because there are too many people talking at the same time. And, the yell of the crowd does get the adrenaline flowing. Paintball is paintball, not golf or tennis.

And, as far as showing in on TV? It can be done using the same format they use for a lot of the other X sports, by showing the highlights. Skateboarding and BMX Freestyle are just as boring as paintball when watched in their entirety, but they only show the good parts of skateboarding and freestyle on ESPN.



[This message has been edited by PaintballChannel (edited 08-22-2001).]

[st6212]

Other things that would make it more appealing on TV.

Obvious thing would be that it would have to be a speedball/hyperball thing and not a woods game.

Make the fields smaller than it already is...that'll make it even more intense http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

Also, get rid of the crappy one-foot on the ground rule. I don't know if you guys have that, but in Oz...tournaments have that rule...ie no climbing/standing on bunkers and stuff. Now take that out and imagine some cool moves that you could do. There have been a number of tournaments here where some players get hyped up and do a killer move involving jumping up on a log or barricade of sorts, but then they get eliminated by the ref for doing it.

Or how about....each player has a set time limit allowed to stay behind one bunker....say 30 secs....move before the 30secs is up or your team is penalised or your eliminated.

[This message has been edited by st6212 (edited 08-23-2001).]

[Dubstar112]

either way you look at this topic, its illegal to show paintball in a good light on tv. Just think about all the jackâss's literally on tv desrtoying our life

[Paintcheck]

It was Jerry Braun, owner of Paintball Sports International magazine. ESPN was pulling episodes because of poor ratings, and he sued them. So much for getting paintball on ESPN again, or for having a shot at making it more exciting for TV.



<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Chaos:
it was probably bob long or someone like that. A player that was on TV and they didn't have the permission to put him publically displayed or something stupid like that. Wouldn't we all like to take a hammer and beat the guy till his brains fall out and stretch his arms and legs till then rip out of their sockets then make tiny papercut incisions till he bleeds to death and... well maybe just i do....

</font>

[rabidchihauhau]

Let's get a few things straight;

the person suing ESPN is STILL suing ESPN: as recently as six months ago there were new requests for affadavits and statements.

the person suing ESPN is not a player - it wasn't done because someone appeared without permission. The issue is over money and contract interpretations.

other people have characterized the network as being at fault, others believe that it is the other way around - but that doesn't count. its up to a COURT to settle the dispute on the merits of the law.

the lawsuit against ESPN is DIRECTLY responsible for a lack of interest on ESPN's part. The VP of programming will not even allow the word paintball to be said in his presence. Being an author of the only major proposal which was received with any degree of seriousness over there, I can say this through my own knowledge of the situation.

the ESPN magazine article appeared in their quarterly magazine in a column which mentioned 'also rans' - shows which were submitted for consideration and then rejected.

A fair amount of space was devoted to paintball and I consider it interesting that the world's premiere sports broadcaster stated, publicly, for the first time anywhere to my knowledge, something that I've been saying for years:

"Paintball is not a sport".

ESPN was a little sarcastic in their coverage, but that shouldn't be allowed to detract from the facts. Paintball (as it is played now - and yes, I'm being partisan in favor of the USPL rules) does not have:

a standard game length
a standard field
unbiased reffing
professional officiating
an objective governing body
or a set of rules which are enforceable.

Without those, ESPN is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT - paintball is NOT a sport.

Paintball will never receive sustained coverage on television until it has a product that is worth putting on the air. No one right now - with the possible exception of USPL - has a product which even comes close, and paintball will not be able to rise to the level it can achieve without television coverage.

Broadcasters will not change the way they do business to accomodate paintball - they don't need to. paintball must change and alter the way it does business and presents itself if it is to encourage broadcatsers to work with us.

Steve

[tremis]

I agree that paintball does not have all the criteria you listed. Neither does auto racing, yet it has a pretty large TV following. Just a thought.

Tremis

[HoppysMag]

Hey tom!


Creator of the Automag Series of Paint markers
anthropolgist (SPelling??)
All around genuis
Diet Pepsi's number 1 client:D


wanna add Tv show producer to that list:D

The AGD show. Hyperball for TV. Great way to show off your Products!

[Royal Assassin]

I agree that paintball does not have the criteria you listed. Neither does auto racing, yet it has a pretty large TV following. Just a thought.

How do you figure? I'll use NASCAR as an example:

a standard game length: each race has a set number of laps

a standard field: the season is set with the tracks that will be run in a paticular order

unbiased reffing: NASCAR has there own officals

professional officiating: there officals are actually trained, and go through classes to learn to implement the rules

an objective governing body: NASCAR governs ALL.

a set of rules which are enforceable: Cup rules are extremly strict down to how long and whent they can work on the cars.

Don't bring something like auto racing into this. I can't think of anything that ESPN airs that isn't a sport except the crap like Bud and Darrell's fishin' show.

Paintball has a long way to go before becoming a profesional sport, and the first step is probly acting like profesionals not 14 year old cry baby moma's boys...

my $.02

Royal Assassin

[ThePatriot]

your 20 cents? whoa...i thought it was $.02 cents

[Shaft]

Hmm, is good this thread. Very good points.
Paintball needs a kick in the arse for being more palatable to the TV viewing audience.
It's day will come.

Step one: Organize
Step two: Standardize
Step three: I don't know step three, otherwise I could head this plan up myself - at least try.

[tremis]

Okey dokey, Good points, but I dont follow that particular racing series, my mind was focusing on Formula One as it is the pinnacle of motorsport.

1 set number of laps is fine but that still varies the lenght of the race. Two hours, three hours? Pb has a set number of games IE 6 prelim 3 semi 3 finals. How fast each round/lap depends on how good of a competitor you are. I would guess that Steve was talking about time when he said length. Or he didnt realize that team play a set amount of games.

2 standard fields. Again Auto racing is exactly like PB. Each event has its own distinct layout. That doesnt change during the course of the event. In neither, is the layout the same from event to event. That would be boring and dare I say stupid.

3/4 I think these go hand in hand. I have never seen a sport with unbiased reffing. If you are an employee af a league, you'll do what is best for the league. We see this in all pro sports, stars seem to be able to almost ignore things like drug screenings, cause the absense of a star would hurt ratings. I have witnessed differing punishments for identical violations in F1, thats not unbiased. As far as proffesional, I have played in tournaments where the refereeing was handled in a very professional manner. And those NPPL refs are paid.

5 the governing body thing has me a bit confused. Pro leagues do whatever they think will make the most money. That may not qualify as objective. True, the governing members dont participate but I believe they play favorites to the most popular participants. Ever notice that Micheal Jordan can take 5 steps before a dunk? ( that also falls in the unbiased reffing thing and its not motor sports but its one that everbody has seen) Again, in F1 it appears the FIA (governing body) favors Ferrari. They may not, but it looks that way, and makes them seem biased. I have a couple of close friends who follow NASCAR that say Rusty Wallace always gets the short end of the stick but that Dale Sr could get away with anything. If Dale brings more viewers, and I'm sure he did, you cut him more slack. That would just be good business. And thats all NASCAR is, a business.

6 Enforceable rules. Competitors always break the rules. Anything that has a lot of technical rules will have more rules breakers, cause there are more rules to break and its harder to get caught. Nascar has its punishments, F1 has theirs, Paintball has theirs. I have never heard of a team that doesnt accept what happens if they break the rules. Never heard of a player refusing to quit playing after a judge pulled his armband, but if it did and they were given more penalty points as per the rules, how do they not follow that? they go change the scoreboard themselves? If they get kicked out of a tourney, they refuse to leave? To me PB rules appear enforceable. If there is a problem, it may be with the rules, but not enforcing them.

I never said auto racing isn't a sport, just that it has flaws like all other sports, including ours. Steve said that PB wasnt a sport. He didnt say a proffesional sport, just that it doesnt fit the following definition:

"sport (spôrt, sprt)
n.

Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. "

I got that from dictionary.com.

I disagree, he says we have to perfect the problems of all sports to get on TV, I say we have have something worth watching. We have something worth playing to most people, we dont have something worth watching to most people. I watch a game, I recognize good play and guys with skill, I'm sure most people on this forum would. The average viewer wouldn't. Dave Mirra doing a double backflip...my 4 year old thought it was kool. I would never buy commercial space during a paintball program. I believe the normal veiwer wouldnt be watching and if I wanted to advertise to paintball players, there are many cheaper ways to do that than a commercial on a show that only they would watch. And if the network doesn't think people will buy commercial time, they wont air a show.

I also know a way to get rid of a large percentage of the people that act like " 14 year old cry baby moma's boys" But nobody wants to hear it.... Start with getting rid of all the 14 year olds. Every " sub-adult " I have seen in any sport acts that way at some point. The guys I play with average in age from 23-35 with the exception of two. one 18 one 44. The 18 year old acts mature though cause he is with a large group of people that are acting mature. True, adults do it too ( though not as much) but again it happens everywhere. Clearing dugouts became the norm in baseball a couple of seasons ago. I saw a highlight of Tony Stewart punching some other driver that was still in his car. Just yesterday I saw Shaq throwing all kinds of punches on court and he wasnt even punching the right guy. And how many time have you seen auto racers "touch" and it didn't look intentional? Thats beyond childish. We're no different than anybody else. And though I would like us to be, I never expect it.

I feel that most sports share a lot of these problems, I singled out auto racing as they dont have a time limt per se. Which I felt Steve was saying is necessary to be a sport.

I have talked to Steve Davidson a few times in person and feel he is a smart cookie, but I feel he had an agenda with his post. It had flaws and I simply pointed out what I thought and still think they are.

As far as my opinions on these problems existing in other sports, I feel the unbiased/objective part is a problem in every sport. I was sorry you singled out NASCAR as your example since, I think they too are not completly objective due to the nature of their business and it seems that American NASCAR fans are so blindly loyal to that form of racing that people will get offended that I spoke a non praising word about it. Similar to some AOers and AGD.:)

Thats my two cents.

Tremis

[Royal Assassin]

Tremis, now that was a damn good post!

<stands up and claps> You know your stuff!! F-1 now that's a racing league!

Royal Assassin

[Jonno06]

Obiously,tremis didnt see who won the world cup(dynasty)hence:they have alot of kids on that team,Also,teenager make up more than half of all paintball players in the world.

[BEEFYSAUSAGE]

Ok im from Australia and over here paint markers are classified as prohibated weapons(same as ak 47`s and rpg`s)
paint markers can only be used on regestered feilds and transported by secure post or licenced people you cannot take them home you can not shoot them in your back yard,you cant even legaly own a gun that was in the country post 93 as i see it the only good thing i like abought it is it keeps kids from obtaining markers and doing stuff(drive bys,shootong road sighns, cats ,dogs ect)one day some ones going to get hurt , there needs to be changes everywhere so this sport doesent get baned(its sooo close)all it will take is one insident and BOOM! its all over folks..
oh and just a note you cant sell guns to people here
barells, air systems,parts,agis,grips ect are ok but if you try to sell full guns the feds will visit you (it has happened a few times)so be carefull in everything you do and say as it has a afect on all of us..
BEEFY.

[deded]

Ive said it before, I'll say it again.

Xgames ruins sports!

Look what its done to skateboarding!

Do a search to see my complaints...

[BEEFYSAUSAGE]

you have to 18 years old to play in most states here

[LittMag]

Some good stuff here, I figured I'd revive it after all of the olympic and TV talk threads.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Royal Assassin
How do you figure? I can't think of anything that ESPN airs that isn't a sport except the crap like Bud and Darrell's fishin' show.

Now hold on there just a minute!!!!!


a standard game length: Till the Beer runs out. Always.

a standard field: The Honey Holes and Drop offs

unbiased reffing: Well ya got me there. Take the size they say and devide by 10.

professional officiating: Got me again...

an objective governing body: Fish and Wildlife or DNR!

a set of rules which are enforceable: Again read your Size and catch limits!

:D

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Chaos
it was probably bob long or someone like that. A player that was on TV and they didn't have the permission to put him publically displayed or something stupid like that. Wouldn't we all like to take a hammer and beat the guy till his brains fall out and stretch his arms and legs till then rip out of their sockets then make tiny papercut incisions till he bleeds to death and... well maybe just i do....



Dude, take deep cleansing breaths. ;)

Ogre

[ogre55]

Originally posted by AGD

ESPN does not want to show paintball because a big person in this industry sued them the last time they showed paintball. I can't say who it is because he might sue me. We will have to be the number one sport for ESPN to be interested.

If anyone has the specific magazine that this was printed in I would be interested in seeing it.

Thanks

AGD

With a few exceptions, law suits are a matter of [ublic record.

Ogre

[ogre55]

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau
Paintball (as it is played now - and yes, I'm being partisan in favor of the USPL rules) does not have:

a standard game length
a standard field
unbiased reffing
professional officiating
an objective governing body
or a set of rules which are enforceable.

Without those, ESPN is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT - paintball is NOT a sport.



Not being in favor of any set of rules, but being fairly well informed, let's compare some other activities which I dare ESPN to call "not a sport".

As for standard game lengths and fields, (ESPN classified "non-sport") there are different types and classes of tournament play like 10/7/5/3 man. Or unlimited NPPL, vs. Pan/AM circuit limited paint affairs. And while we are at it, let us not forget, pump and stock tounry play.

However, in auto-racing (ESPN classified "sport") we have NASCAR vs. CART vs. open wheels. Grand Prix vs. Oval tracks. And any number of other interesting variations.

Next let us move to unbaised reffing, professional officiating, an objective governing body, or a set of rules which are enforceable..

Yes in paintball (ESPN classified "non-sport") we have had some problems with all of the above. But no less than in Soccer (ESPN classified "sport" and as a side not the most popular sport in the WORLD), as well in figure skating (ESPN classified "sport" unless Olympic events are no longer sports.)

Sorry to get off on a rant.

Ogre

[FrAuStY]

Originally posted by williamb
I love paintball. I love playing it. Let's be honest though.. for someone who doesn't play, the current format is really boring to watch.

The current format can be equated to a bunch of kids in clown suits hiding behind blowup dolls with guns.

Snowboarding (which I also love), skateboarding, and the like are in the X-games because they are amusing to watch for people who do not do the sports themselves. It is entertaining to watch people flying, spinning, and jumping in the air. It is even more entertaining to watch people screwing up the above stunts in some spectacular manner that gets them hurt. People enjoy seeing other people doing crazy things, whether they succeed or not.

The only way someone is going to "screw up" and get hurt playing paintball, would be for them to have their goggles fall off and loose an eye. That wouldn't be entertaining, nor would it be good for the sport. True, there is the odd injury, as I'm sure Miscue can attest to, and it is moderately enjoyable to watch someone being bunkered. . but the real joy in this sport is playing, not watching.

Let's be honest though. The game will be far more competitive without Mountain Dew sponsoring someone.

If anyone can come up with a creative concept to make paintball fun for non-players to watch, then I'm sure someone would love to air it.

Just my opinion.

-W

Four words:

Helmet Cams, and JUMBOTRON!

That would be enough for people to enjoy watching paintball. They'd be able to have a "safe" birds-eye-view of the game being played. You could also have a Large screen showing locations of all the players.. so people could get an overview of whats going on, and when a possible confrontation will occur. This will of course have to be hidden from the player's view so there could be no cheating. I believe that would be a step in the right direction for making paintball more appealing to observers/spectators rather then just the players themselves.

[Automaggin2]

that article is over a year old. they are seriosuly tthinking about putting Xball in the Xgames. I read someowhere on PBnation that some guy was friends with the President of ESPN or something like that and he took him paintballing and the guy was hooked, so hes gonna see what he can do

[OldSchoolMag]

First of all, we are a sport.

Paintball's a sport, and reluctantly, so are things like fishing, golf, bowling, NASCAR, and underwater basket weaving. It's not the most prestigious of lists, but it's one that we're on.

Second, paintball has a bad enough rap as it is. Most people (mainly mothers, but that's besides the point) think paintball is a barbaric sport that trains kids for war and turns them against religion, capitalism, and vegetables.

However, that doesn't mean that as soon as little Newbie McGee takes a shot in the chest and it makes a welt on national tv that the whole sports gonna come crashing down, just that some people will gasp, others will cheer, and the show will cut to commercial. Also, I'd have to say that kids are a necessity to this sport. As young and impressionable as they are, they nearly drive the entire low end of the economy of this sport. You think any self-respecting adult with half the mind to research would buy half of those 'guns? Kids want what's hot, what's new, and most importantly, what's shiny. Paintball has it all, as well as the "first kid on your block" aspect, which would just turn into a bunch of spoiled brats trying to outspend each other, making people like Budd Orr and Tom Kaye smile...

Don't worry about ESPN. Without much major coverage aside from the occasional news blip about "those paintball rascals", we've gotten to the 4th place spot in extreme sports, and maintain less serious injuries than sports like golf and bowling, though the bowling portion may be attributed to the amount of alcohol consumed per game, but I digress.

Personally, I think the sport is doing fine as it is, and I'm not in any rush to see myself plastered on the big screen over at Enron Field (or Minute Maid Park, whatever, my town's a sell out...) anytime soon, but that's not to say I wouldn't mind:)

OSM

[Timmee]

I think there is a way to get networks hooked on the idea of having paintball on TV. One suggestion I have is to get a public access time slot through your local cable company. Make sure that the field(s) that are used for tapings are "camera friendly", and make sure to keep a copy of all the tapings for yourselves. Then, the next step is to present these tapes to some place like ESPN, for review. If they like what they see, they might be willing to take another shot at running games on tv. I don't know how much all this might cost, but a store/field might be willing to fund something in exchange for a well placed banner or ad. Just make sure to use a field that is "camera friendly" and enforces the rules in an objective manner.

[Tyger]

Well if you guys are gonna drag this thread out, you may as well know what you're fighting against.

ESPN the Magazine
Fall, 2001 Issue 4.17
Page 152, under the title "Rejected X"

http://www.webdogradio.com/tyger/ESPN.JPG

-Tyger

(Yes, THAT Tyger... I'll go back into lurk mode now...)

[EnderWigginPballin]

Tom, as long as you don't give us your opinion on who is sueing ESPN, then there's no way that he could bring a slander or libel suit against you. If it is the TRUTH, then you have no problems....

if you said, "Mr, XXXXX XXXXX is an idiot and needs to deal with the fact that he's short and GZ isn't too great...." then that would be slander, or libel if a post made by you is considered as "published"

I bet that Blake Musser guy feels like a jerk now... thanks Tyger

[ntn4502]

Does anybody else have the uruge to gather some pitchforks and torches, and hunt down Blake Musser;) :D (not to be taken seriously)
But really, its kinda like saying Pete Sampras wouldn't be a great tennis player, if he didn't have the greatest racket... my .02 anyway

[Brian68mag]

That angers me, alot lol.

[Pile & A Half]

Yeah I heard it use to be on ESPN. I never really heard why they stop showing it? I don't think I ever rememberd seeing it on there before? But then again I don't have a clue when they played on ESPN. But yeah I think that would be awesome if the XGames would at least give it a chance. I know there would be a lot more supporters now. But yeah I will agree it is BS.

[raehl]

The reason ESPN isn't interested in paintball has nothing to do with who sued who.

They won't have anything to do with it because they don't think they'll make any money.

And they're right. All the other sports on the X-Games have big corporate sponsorship dollars that follow those sports to the X-Games. Thus having those sports means ESPN gets big corporate sponsorship dollars.

Paintball does not have big corporate sponsorship dollars. Why that is is a whole nother thread.

Anyway, ESPN execs don't take things personally, they don't care who sued them, and they don't care who hates who. They base their decision on one thing and one thing only:

"Will this programming make us more money than other programming?"


That's it.

- Chris

[Ityl]

I find it kinda funny how some series do get Big sponsors, like lawnmower racing, it hasn't been around a long time. Then take the kart racing world which has been around a lot longer, and has many many more people and has only had crappy attempts at shows, and almost all were of the west coast road course stuff.

Someone needs to know someone big at like Pepsi, take em paintballin, and get them to sponsor a show.

[Wc Keep]

that was what i was going to post. and you know what we do have someone on the inside that can take the owners of pepsi and coke out together to duke it out :cough: tom :cough:. think about it though you get both of these big soda companies to battle it out and believe me one of those ceo's if not both are gonna love it. and pepsi also has mtn. dew part of them which is considered the "xtreme" drink. but why stop there get the ceo's of walmart and k-mart to go out together, with the brass eagle markers they sell, and they are gonna love it (unless martha stewart owns k-mart). i have yet to hear of someone who has wanted to go out and play paintball that has not loved it. i took my brother in law out to play and he loved it. so tom if you read this please take pepsi and coke out to sc village or cpx and show them that paintball is worth spending the money on.

p.s. if you take the ceo of pepsi onto the side make sure you have a bottle of pepsi in your hand. same thing with the coke ceo. as long as they dont have cockers in their hands.

[Vendetta]

What good has TV done for anything anyway? TV is evil. I should know, I'm an addict.;) All this talk about bringing the game/sport into the mainstream has been around for at least 15 years. Having more people play was suppose to bring the prices down because of volume. Paint prices have come down, but we now shoot so much more that that doesn't matter.

[ogre55]

I remember a discussion regarding big time sponsership, on a thread about a month ago, and what surprised me was for every AOer who was for big sponsers entering the sport, there was another one, who was dead set against it.

Ogre

[rabidchihauhau]

Umm, Chris, they do. The VP of programming for ESPN, Ron Simeo, takes the paintball thing VERY personally. Last time we talked to him, it was to make a formal presentation of the USPL, and his response was 'get that paintball thing out of my office'; that was after a half hour of being very interested, but not having heard the word paintball yet.

He does take it personally; whether its more motivated by money, ego or something else, that I can't say, but he does take it personally.

[raehl]

In that case he made a very wise decision. But that's a USPL conversation you don't want to get me started on.

Frankly, I'd be a wee bit upset if you'd managed to get all the way into my office and stay there for a half hour without mentioning that it was paintball you were trying to sell. Act like you need to hide something and people might believe you.

Of course, it may have had something to do with the fact that the whole USPL plan sucked too.

Erm, right, I'm not getting started on that.



- Chris

[Kneedragger]

Originally posted by RobAGD
Tom didnt you mean to say an Indrusty Midget ?

-Robert

ROTFLMFAO !! Are you referring to his stature, or his mental capacity. :D

[Kneedragger]

It's been a long time since I watched the X Games. Don't watch much TV. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't any team sports in the X games are there? Why would they put paintball in, unless it's basically 1 on 1, which would be VERY boring.

[Automaggin2]

hers my take on the subject:

Jump ropping, thats a sport? BLACK JACK AND POKER, thats a sport? Cheerleading, thats a sport (i still argue that, the only thing good about it is the good lookin girls), arm wrestling, thats a sport?

thats al the BS that ESPN puts on the air. And what about bass fishing, does that have a set field? does that have a set officiating staff? does it have a set time limit? i dont belive so

[raehl]

ESPN doesn't care if it's a "real" sport or not.

ESPN cares if it will make more money than other programming.

And in their estimation, all of the aformentioned activities will make more (or pay more) money than paintball.


- Chris

[irbodden]

Master ease-dropper IRBodden knows who sued.. :D

Robbie Wong? Something like that ;)