uh, hold the pressure.

[martlet1]

http://www.evcom.net/~n4mwd/cscuba.htm

these are pictures of why you may not want to go higher than your 4500 psi tanks. There is a thread on buying scuba tanks and going higher somewhere here. But really what you are carrying next to your body is a little bomb. Come fields around here are using air compressors to fill scuba tanks, then bleeding off the air for quick fills. This is cool, but be careful and let someone who is certified to fill the scuba equipment up do it.
I personally dropped a 6' co2 tank off a dock while loading it onto a truck. The nipple broke off and shot the tank through two walls of the warehouse. I can only imagine what would happen under 4500 pounds of pressure.

[cphilip]

Even 3000 psi will/can kill you. By the way the tank in the article was a 3000 psi SCUBA.

[This message has been edited by cphilip (edited 08-23-2001).]

[FeelTheRT]

ssss ouch

[Flip540]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FeelTheRT:
ssss ouch</font>

I second that...

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Flip Out


Mini Mag (soon to be powderd red)
10" red cp
AGD Blade IntelliFrame
12v Revvy
Clear AGD Warp Feed
VL Fore Grip
Max Attack 68/45


For Sale...
ss remote
stock minimag barrel
4+1 pack

"I may rock, but im not made of stone"

[martlet1]

Ive never heard of a paintball injury from compressed air, but i have had several guys freeze fingers ect from the co2.
Ive also seen a couple air rams blow up. Scary crap.

Anyone ever heard of problems with tanks injuring players?? I know my tank heats up when i fill it with compressed air. Im a little paranoid now.

[DryIce]

Tanks are only going to blow up from mistreatment of the tank. This could be anywhere from throwing the tank on the ground, banging it with a hammer, overfilling the tank, not keeping proper maintence, or filling it when it is out of its inspection period. If treated correctly a tank can be very safe. Infact im more worried about driving on the highway, with some of the crazy people around here, than having my tank blowup on me.
Just remember a well taken care of tank is a happy tank http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

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http://www.galaxy-pc.com/mag &lt;---my automag

http://www.galaxy-pc.com/mag/wiringdiagram.jpg &lt;--- Warpfeed Intellifeed diagram

[Micromag5371]

Yes, my turbomax 68/4500 tank heats up when Iget it filled.
Anything to be concerned about?

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"It takes a man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him."

micromag s/n 003554
need a pic?- http://www.geocities.com/unblood/Paintball.html

[Yama]

yea my tank does that too. arnt they saposed to wipe it with cold water or something????

[Cha0tic]

no, all nitro tanks get a little warm when they are filled. i think it is because the tank expands a little from the fill.

[Webmaster]

The reason for tanks getting warm is because of the air. If you rapidly move 68cui of air at 3000psi into a bottle, those air molecules are going to be rapidly bumping around in your tank. Now atoms are always moving (unless its absolute zero). But when they are first dumped into your tank they are moving more than they would in the normal state. All that bouncing around causes heat, thus your tank gets warm.

Now - I would let your tank cool off naturally. Sudden changes from hot to cold is what weakens any material. Like taking a glass from the freezer and putting it in boiling water. If its just regular glass it will probably crack. So let it cool off in its own.

NOW - when you do this you will see something neat happen. You will LOOSE pressure in your tank. Sometimes 200-500psi depending on the fill and how fast it was. The reason for this is that as the tank cools down, the air molecules settle down and stop bumping into one another. The air pressure was artificially higher due to all the molecules bouncing around.

Now - is this dangerous? No - because we only fill to the limit of the tank. The pressure may drop from cooling - but it wont rise to dangerous levels...

Now - onto the scuba thing. First off - ANY aluminum tank is more dangerous than the tanks we use. Any tank can get micro cracks and become weakend. If you do any mountain climing or repelling you know that if you drop one of your aluminum calipers you toss it - as it may have formed a micro crack and be weakened.

What is super nice about our tanks is that they are kevlar or fiber wrapped. This not only makes them strong - but it will prevent shrapnel in the event of a catastrophic failure.

Over all our tanks our very safe. Larry Cossio told me we have NO injuries from a tank failure. HOWEVER - if you ever start to get a leak or something, DROP the tank and avoid it. There has been injuries where tanks or regs failed and a smally hyper presurised jet of air INFLATED under the skin. NOT a good thing. Very rare - but be mindful...

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Webmaster - AutoMags.Org
webmaster@automags.org
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"Good...bad...I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash, Army of Darkness

[Peanut The Paintballer]

Due to my stupidity once I attached the s/s hose from my geddon tank to my genx reg on the OUTPUT slot. My valve was open all the way so easily 1000 psi would run through. The tank was empty and I always leave my valve all the way open for safety reasons. Well anyway, not realizing hte hose was in wrong i brought it to the store and asked him to check my gun to make the hoses were ok and stuff( Just finished reassembling it). He said they were ok and went to fill the tank. All of a sudden we heard the tank hissing and boom the blow out disc blew up so freakin loud.Thank god for blow out discs.


<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by FeelTheRT:
ssss ouch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I second that...
</font>

I third that

[brett]

fiberwrapped tanks are as dangerous as any other tank the scuba class i went to ( to fill up my 68 ci) had pictures of blown up fiberwrapped tanks and every guy got killed that had it blown up on him, thats why i got a steal tank, and my paintball shop guy puts all fiber wrapped tank in a reinforced steal vault
not to parinoy anyone bout fiberwrapped but its the truth

[C¥borg]

Fiber wrapped tanks tend to be more chemically weaker than just basic alluminum or steel, simple cleaning materials can weaken the wrapping a lot. I've talked about this in other posts, about how some firemans SCBA's blew up because they were exposed to cleaning materials (I'm still working on getting the pictures)

[toymyster]

I had seen this at the dive shop I go to!!! This kind of thing is why they went to a different procedure for the annual visual inspection!!! Still you can't be too careful!!!! Show this to all the people who overfill their SCUBA tank so they can get one full fill out of it!!!

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Black Teflon E-mag
Warp feed
10" total Freak
Centerflag 201 68/45k

[adam68c]

one guy said fiber wraps are safer and antoher guy said that fiber wraps will kill u if they blow.Ive seen a picture of an exploded fiber tank. All the fibers were pointing out from the hole. It didnt look like there was that much sharpnel from the tank but if u were in a shooting position when the thing blew i could imagine how ur face would look.I want to get a straight anwser on whether or not a fiber tank has a better chance of hurting you badly than a metal one would.

[cphilip]

Fiber Wrapped tanks and Steel tanks are equally safe if there both in perfect condition as they both must pass rigorous testing to the same standard. Fiber wraps are a bit more prone to damage so therefore there Hydrostatic requirement is a bit more frequent.

Webby already gave a good layman explanation of molecules compressing and therefore producing heat so no need to get into that. It's normal and so therefore getting a "good fill" requires slow filling, Water immersing etc.

But now let's talk about safety. I know of no incident where a Paintball tank has exploded. Might be one out there and I would sure like to know. Does that mean it's not going to happen? Absolutely not! At the present rate of use it will happen. I am not a Sage or Clairvoyant. It's just the odds.

Do we fill safely enough? Not according to OSHA, Dive Safety and the Fire Safety guys. A fill chamber of specific density and size is supposed to be used. Most of us do not use or even have one. In fact most of us even fill our tanks on gun. I am guilty of all this too. This containment device is designed to contain the shrapnel if a rupture occurs. I am concerned that eventually this will become and issue and a reality only after accident has seriously maimed or killed someone. If only one single serious injury occurs (even though OSHA is aimed at employee's it's a standard of reasonable measure of safety) Paintball will be reeling from the effect. Remember an accident that is preventable is not an accident at all. It's a deliberate safety violation. And we have a standard that could be applied that we do not use. So it will be no accident. And it is preventable to a 98 or more percent confidence level.

[martlet1]

Ive never seen a containment unit anywhere where i fill. The local field here uses a scuba tank to drain fills off of. They have a $10,000 air compressor which fills the tank to pressure, then bleeds off to a scuba fill tank. The paintball field also runs a company that fills and repairs tanks.
They just had a gasoline fill station explode and kill two of thier employees. They dropped a wrench and fumes ignited. The containment unit sounds good, where can you find one??

[cphilip]

SCUBA shop suppliers and Fire Safety stores can get em. You can build them out of 3/8 thick steel pipe and slot it for the fill hose to fit through. Then manufacture the cover and lock down bolts. But you really should get one that is manufactured to the standard so it will be ASTM Certified. But even a well made home job is better than nothing. Go to your local Fire Dept and look at theirs. They should have one. It will be overkill for these tanks but you will get the idea.

I do not know if anyone out there actually manufactures one small and specific for PB tanks. They need the demand first. Maybe it already has been done. Anyone know? I think I will build one this fall for PB tanks.

Even though compliance will be voluntary, as these club members are not "Employee's" according to the OSHA definition, I don't want to be associated with a group that doesn't take at least some minimal safety precautions. After all...I am a Safety Officer here at the university...Would look bad for me not to have at least attempted to steer them in the right direction. Besides...it might save *MY* life... http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

[DRAGONSLAYER]

The tanks will heat up when you fill them fast. I fill my own scuba tanks and all of my friends CAtanks, just fill them slow and they will stay cool. Also, if you fill your bottle fast it gets hot, then when it cools, you have a lot less press. Fill slow and have your tanks hydro'd when needed.

[Hasty8]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by brett:
fiberwrapped tanks are as dangerous as any other tank the scuba class i went to ( to fill up my 68 ci) had pictures of blown up fiberwrapped tanks and every guy got killed that had it blown up on him, </font>

I don't know who told u this or how u came to that conclusion but you couldn't be further rom the truth.

I've worked many summers in my local gas shop. That's the place that most field buy their CO2 from and I have seen my share or blown bottles. All things being equal, fiber wrapped are substantially more safe then plain steel or alum bottle. With steel or alum, a single scratch could possibly weaken the intergrity of the bottle and lead to catastrophic failure[read: BOOM!].

While a scratch in the fiber wrapping may possibly lead to integrity failure the fiber wrapping does a great job of preventing shrapnel. Not the minor cuts shrapnel but it definately stops the severing arms and fingers shrapnel.

Fiber wrapped is definately the way to go but remember. No cleaning solvents. I don't even use soap. I just use a mildly damp towel to clean off the bottle and then immediately wipe it dry.

Last thing, I would also stress that you take preventive care while at the field. After you are tagged or after the round is over check over your bottle and clean up any wipes.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[cphilip]

Hasy8,

All these tanks meet the same DOT spec. And the only reason for fiber wrapping is to allow a lot less aluminum/steel be used to make them lighter and get away with it. So you both are partly right but yet partly wrong. They are equal in some ways. Different in others. The Tuff skin fiber wrapped actually harder to damage than the plain fiber wrapped. And the steel/cro-molly even more difficult to damage to the point of losing integrity respectively. But all across the board there is no real difference in likely hood if they are managed properly for their individual properties. They are equally prone to dropping them on the valve and separation. So there is no real right or wrong answer as it depends on the circumstances of each incident.