30bps freeflow

[petefol]

this was posted by ethan from freeflow


Here is the long awaited LOTUS.

I will be at the IAO this week. I will reply to all questions on the 12th.

Here are some specs (hopefully this answers some questions):

2 versions of this gun will be available.

1 is electronic (pictured) - It will come with the RaceGun grip, single trigger and double trigger, ACE, ACE Cover (not quite done yet), Free Flow E-Block (not quite done yet), and the capapbility to shoot up to 30 BPS (if your loader can do it).
$1399

2 is manual (not pictured) - It will come with the Eclipse Blade (manual version).
$899

Both versions will include:

All new 2k2 Free Flow Internals
Freak (w/one insert) - or - DYE Ultralight - or - JT 2-Piece Barrel
Sidewinder - or - Gladiator Regulator
Your choice of colors and other customizable options
Fade's or Acid Wash is $100 extra

Both guns have our lifetime warranty (its not a limited warranty - it covers EVERYTHING but shipping).

Stop by the IAO and you can get a look at the 1st Lotus Free Flow's. If you are lucky we'll make you a slushie too!

-Ethan

30bps? what do you guys think... most cockers dont even cycle that fast right?

[Will Wood]

BAh....

I will personaly never fire faster then 15 bps. EVER. There is no need to. That is showing off. In a game....10 is a good max for me.

[shartley]

Personally, even if it CAN, I don’t care. A year ago, claims of 30BPS was huge news, but now every time you turn around someone is claiming they have a “faster” marker… but then have to say “as long as your loader can handle it”. Well…. that seems to be the thing, doesn’t it? ;)

Yes, we can make markers cycle really fast. We can even make them FIRE really fast in short burst. But I think the big war now will be in Loader Technology and not Marker Speeds.

It is like everyone running out to get the fastest cars on the road and then rushing out to drive them on the same 65MPH road. It will get to the point where marker and loader speed will not create the “WOW” it currently does, and folks will start saying “Yeah, you have a fast setup… but can you PLAY?” And I am personally looking forward to that day……

Not to mention the next highest thing heard besides “how fast” a setup is, is “how much money it takes to play the sport”. ;) Oh yeah…… bring it on! WooHoo! 30BPS! Hope you got some deep pockets. 30BPS doesn’t mean much if you can’t afford the paint. ;)

[pbguy888]

True that! I can barily afford the paint for 6 bps:D :(

[petefol]

well i was wondering if its possible for a cocker to do that?

[Crimson_Turkey]

Perhaps he somehow shoved a retro valve in there?

I saw one in a pro/carbine once. Why? I dont know.

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Crimson_Turkey
Perhaps he somehow shoved a retro valve in there?


:rolleyes:

I think its possible, as free flows are pretty damn fast.

[RRfireblade]

Oh Yeah?
I'm building a marker that will shoot 40 Bps with paint.

You prove me wrong!!I'll supply the marker YOU get the paint in that fast!

It's so easy to make claims that can't be proven.

Jay.

EDIT- Someone should find out the fastest paint(and you better make it 1 bounce tourny paint)can be jambed through a tube and around a 90* corner and all this talk of XXBps will come to a screaming halt.

[TRIAD]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
Oh Yeah?
I'm building a marker that will shoot 40 Bps with paint.

You prove me wrong!!I'll supply the marker YOU get the paint in that fast!

It's so easy to make claims that can't be proven.

Jay.

True dat.

[Automaggin2]

Well, my local store said a Evil rep came in to the store and claimed the Omen can shoot something like, 60, or maybe it was 80, BALLS PER SECOND. Thats just stupid. I cant even see a reg recharge that fast.

[TheJester]

you saw 1 in a pro/carbine? but why????

I want to do it to my carbine *evil grin while rubbing hands together*

[Crimson_Turkey]

I dont know why there was a retro in a carbine. It was good bragging rights but that was about it. Who shoots that fast with a carbine? I have no idea how he did it either.

[sneakyhacker420]

very interesting... a retro in a pro carbine.. WTF... HOW THE...?? :confused:

how did he cram that beast in there?... or was it just a retro reg half glued to the back LOL :p

[Crimson_Turkey]

It stuck out the back a bit. I dont know why or how he did it. He also had a flatline phantom that day.

[personman]

I can make my XTS go super d00per fast..
All you have to do is gas it up, cock the bolt back and take off the grip frame!
:eek:

[sneakyhacker420]

yeah, thats fun to watch about 20 or so balls go flying 10 feet, then its a blender... PAINT MARGARITAS(spelling?) FOR EVERYONE!

btw personman... whos that guy standing next to you in the AO SC pics when your in the pie suit?




PIE = GOOD

PUMPKIN, CHERRY, APPLE, PEACH, STRAWBERRY AND ALL THE OTHER DELIGHTFUL FLAVORZ

YUMMY :D

[Ov3rmind]

Yes, it is very possible for a FF Cocker to be able to cycle at 30 bps for a few reasons. Pro Paintball has made several upgrades that make this possible (these of course can be added to any Cocker):

A. The 3-way is replaced by a solenoid. This can switch much faster than a mechanical 3-way for obvious reasons.

B. Their SMC rams are made to withstand very high rates of fire without giving out like other Cocker rams. While other Cocker rams could last a bit beyond 20 bps, I believe the SMC can last longer, and at higher rates of fire.

C. Their new tungsten "lite" hammers. They are the smallest and lightest hammers available for Cockers, which would help cycling speeds for obvious reasons.

I also find it funny how everyone was ooing and ahing over the Emag when it was shown to do 30 bps. But when a Cocker does it, it's some how less fantastic.

[xmetal2001]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind

I also find it funny how everyone was ooing and ahing over the Emag when it was shown to do 30 bps. But when a Cocker does it, it's some how less fantastic.

A few reasons for that:

1)Your on a mag forum
2)We've already seen the E-Mag do it, old news now
3)Cocker's have elves, that makes it unfair:cool:

[shartley]

Originally posted by xmetal2001


A few reasons for that:

1)Your on a mag forum
2)We've already seen the E-Mag do it, old news now
3)Cocker's have elves, that makes it unfair:cool:
Number 2 is my main reason. Like I posted above, when the E-Mag did it, it was the ONLY one to do so (PROVEN). When something then becomes common place, or at least more prevalent, the WOW factor tends to drop. Look at all the fuss when Color TVs came out... WOW! But once you put one in every home it makes less of an impact on you when you see it. ;) But I don’t think anyone would say Color TVs are not nice….. they just don’t mesmerize us any more.

[Bront]

Originally posted by Automaggin2
Well, my local store said a Evil rep came in to the store and claimed the Omen can shoot something like, 60, or maybe it was 80, BALLS PER SECOND. Thats just stupid. I cant even see a reg recharge that fast.

The Omen Claims to be able to Cycle 40 times a second. In theory, that means that if you can feed it that fast, it will fire that fast. However, the trigger is limited to something below 20 anyway, so it's a mute point without a trigger mod.

[theraidenproject]

Kind of OT, but has anyone else seen pics of the Lotus? It is sooooooooooo ugly. Anyway, back OT, as long as a gun can fire faster than I can pull the trigger, how MUCH faster really doesn't matter to me, except for bragging rights compared to my friends' markers.:D

[56kSomeGuy]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
I also find it funny how everyone was ooing and ahing over the Emag when it was shown to do 30 bps. But when a Cocker does it, it's some how less fantastic.

The e-mag was proven to be able to do 30bps(tested and documented) while they only still claim to say that the cocker can do 30bps. I want to see some proof!

[xen_100]

Originally posted by Automaggin2
Well, my local store said a Evil rep came in to the store and claimed the Omen can shoot something like, 60, or maybe it was 80, BALLS PER SECOND. Thats just stupid. I cant even see a reg recharge that fast.


that is complette crap! I saw a video of a guy running his timmy(without paint) at 35 BPS and a 4500 max-flo could not keep up with the air demands........you think 60-80 BPS would even be posible???? no!

I think there is one more thing people are missing here..........nearly all fields and all tournies do not allow anything but semi. so how fast can you really pull a trigger???? I dont care how short or reactive or soft the trigger you will not be able to consistantly (on the feild, playing) be able to pull more than 15 or so BPS. so everything else is just hype.......the day a person can pull a trigger 30 times in one second is the day I start looking for the boinic implants.

[sneakyhacker420]

the key word is the gun itself being CAPABLE of shooting that fast :rolleyes:

[ogre55]

I am a die hard magger, however, I just couldn't pass up the deal I got for a used Freeflow with extras (I could tell you the price, but then I would have to kill you :D )

Anyway, due to the problems many used guns come with, I sent her in to PnP to have some maintenance work done. Due to the fact that I wanted to treat myself for a personal accomplishment, I have decided that while she is there, I was going to have the good folks of PnP drop in an Eclipse E-Blade.

So I figure that between the Freeflow/E-Blade Hybrid, and the Max-Flow 45/68 I should be able to top her out on BPS all the way to the edge of envelope. No way to really time her I guess (I'm not sure if the E-Blade comes with some sort of LCD/LED that tracks BPS), however, she will come with an ACE which will prevent chops and which will slow her down if chopping becomes a problem at higher BPS rates.

To be honest though, to me this will be a purely acedemic excersise as I have yet to find a use for shooting faster than 8-10 BPS. Just my playing style, I guess.

Ogre

EDIT: Oh and the HALO-B should be able to keep up as well.

[badfish314]

Just use a field chrono to see the bps you can rip. I have a sweet race and I can only get 14 max. It's simply too much mass to move faster than that. I do know halfblocks and freeflows can go to 19-20bps. They have much lighter parts than mine though. I'm too cheap to afford the good stuff. I'd love to know what a e-blade can do though. They say 20+...I say show me. Good luck w/ the e-blade.

[314159]

*update* freeflow is getting rid of their blenders this year to make their "spiked" slushies at their booth, they are also demonstrating the ability of their marker to "mix drinks", have a couple drinks, and you won't care how easy on paint your marker is ;)

56ksomeguy, the automag rt valve was tested to 27 cycles per second.

some have gotten their emag to 30 cycles per second with an aftermarket board, by reducing the sear pull time, to allow for more valve recharge time.

i don't think anyone has reached 30 bps on a mag, they are up above 20 though.

[shartley]

Originally posted by 314159
*update* freeflow is getting rid of their blenders this year to make their "spiked" slushies at their booth, they are also demonstrating the ability of their marker to "mix drinks", have a couple drinks, and you won't care how easy on paint your marker is ;)

56ksomeguy, the automag rt valve was tested to 27 cycles per second.

some have gotten their emag to 30 cycles per second with an aftermarket board, by reducing the sear pull time, to allow for more valve recharge time.

i don't think anyone has reached 30 bps on a mag, they are up above 20 though.
On butters.org they show 25BPS live fire. ;) Yup, mags are up over 20. :D (Not that it matters to me though.... but it seems that it is one of the few "proofs" offered to folks... claims however are everywhere.)

But the question still remains if these claims are founded, or going off of “cycle” times…. Which in that case would make them pretty much worthless. It would still come down to whether it would actually work properly and not chop balls right and left, and if you can get a loading device that can feed it fast enough.

I think what some folks are saying is that talk is cheap, and just getting a marker to cycle at fast rates of speed without actual documented proof that it will actually SHOOT paint at that speed is getting old. Not to mention that it serves no real purpose. Just because you CAN does not always equate to you SHOULD. ;) It is like putting a rocket engine in a VW Bug. :D

And a whole lot of us simply see no need for it… unless you are going to paint your house.. but in that case you can get a good Wagner Power Painter for about $80 and the price of paint. ;) You will never be able to use these “capabilities” on the field.

[ogre55]

Just a bit of an update on me earlier post regarding the E-Blade/Freeflow. When I took the Cocker apart for the first time (which was also the first time I took a Cocker apart, period) I was amazed at the complexity of the operation. This is not meant as a "dis" to Cockers because they do work, but the complexity of the operation to cycle just one ball reminds me of a Rube Goldberg machine more than a marker. It seems to defy the age old KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle. Contrasting it to the simplicity of a 'Mag was enlightening.

As someone stated earlier, the number of operations involved in one cycle seems would seem to hinder speed. I can't wait to find out the truth of the matter.

Ogre

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by shartley

Just because you CAN does not always equate to you SHOULD. ;) It is like putting a rocket engine in a VW Bug. :D



Someone SHOULD do that!! To much is NEVER enough!



Jay.

[joeyjoe367]

What!?!?!? The Size of my penis is NOT directly prepotional to the Rate of fire of my Paintball gun?!?!?!?!

[Conqueror]

In most cases, it's inversely proportional. :D

As has been said, these "claims" of high ROF are absolutely meaningless if the air or gun design can't keep up. I can set my morlock-powered TF5 to somewhere over 400 bps (literally!), but it doesn't mean squat. Neither my air system nor the gun itself has any hope of keeping up.

CQ

[Crimson_Turkey]

You could use it a "paint-thrower!"

[MinimagRockin']

Originally posted by RRfireblade


Someone SHOULD do that!! To much is NEVER enough!



Jay.
I believe there was a darwin award given out to someone who did exactly that. Blasted himself right into the side of a mountain...

[petefol]

setting an electronic board to 400bps and actually "customizing" (i use the term lightly) a gun to where the stock ROF is doubled are two different things

[Pand0ra]

Originally posted by Conqueror
In most cases, it's inversely proportional. :D


Damn, never allow a girl to play paintball !!! :D

@++

[i-luv-my-rt]

Originally posted by 314159
*update* freeflow is getting rid of their blenders this year to make their "spiked" slushies at their booth, they are also demonstrating the ability of their marker to "mix drinks", have a couple drinks, and you won't care how easy on paint your marker is ;)

I remember enjoying many of those "slushies" while being there. I am very good friends with Ethan and play on one of his sponosored teams. I have seen his FF race cycle 22 cps, and seen it actually shoot 19bps with paint and Halo B. He said with the ACE turned on it would go above that because there capped at 20 and it was hard to get a precise measurement of 20 rather than 19. They are very nice guns, once in awhile i get to use Lockouts at practices and stuff and you couldnt ask for a sweeter marker. There selling Lockouts teams guns for 1000 dust red with black parts raceframe and everything. I really like the Lotus also, very sweet milling.

OGRE 55- Why would you put an Eclipse E-blade on a freeflow? I just dont totally get it, why wouldnt you buy a cheaper cocker and put the e-blade on it. Well you said you got that freeflow cheap so maybe you did get it cheap enough :D

[ogre55]

Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt

OGRE 55- Why would you put an Eclipse E-blade on a freeflow? I just dont totally get it, why wouldnt you buy a cheaper cocker and put the e-blade on it. Well you said you got that freeflow cheap so maybe you did get it cheap enough :D [/B]

After I sent the Freeflow in for some service to PnP I called in to ask if they had any Electro packages available? The gentlman I spoke with stated that both the Racegun and the E-Blade were available for the same price, but the E-blade comes with an ACE, so I went E-Blade. I figure if the upgrade is installed and endorsed by PnP, why not get it. Their reputation for selling the best quality Cockers on the market and thier commitment to their customers is what persuaded me to purchase the marker in the first place, never mind the price.

Why not go with an E-blade, rather than a Racegun anyway? I am a relative noob when it comes to Cockers so if there is a difference I am all ears. I am getting the thing because PnP endorses it.

As for installing an electro aftermarket kit on a cheap Cocker, I figure that if you want to get most out of an electro-cocker, start off with a good manual setup. No amount of electro assist is going to help if the manual parts are not up to the task of keeping up with the speed of the trigger pull. It's the same as getting an E-Mag, but powering it with the cheapest air system around or hopper around. What's the point if the things that are feeding the marker can't keep up with the marker.

Ogre

[i-luv-my-rt]

I totally agree with everything.

The only reason i like the race better is the trigger IMO is better. But the e-blade is also very nice.

Nice set-up and good luck:D

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

I dont care if it can shoot 30 bps but there is only 2 ways someone cold do it in a game

A-U have a very bad case of the shakes

or

B-You have elptic seizure
and we all know its very hard to play while seizureing

[ogre55]

Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt
I totally agree with everything.

The only reason i like the race better is the trigger IMO is better. But the e-blade is also very nice.

Nice set-up and good luck:D

I have not had a chance to play with either trigger, however, I am not one to fret over trigger slop and feel. I am less than discriminating on that end.

I hope I like this rig as it's really the first time I have purchased a marker, sight unseen. I only know what I have heard, which is good. I have yet to see one perform. I am bit a nervous but what the hell. It's all good and I expect the usual growing pains one gets when one buys a new high end setup.

It could not be nearly as bad as the trouble I had with the LX when I first installed it.

Ogre

[Iceman8446]

I just put a regular eclipse blade trigger on my freeflow and I like it alot. The e-blade was a little too expensive for me. I looked on professionalpaintball's website and I can't find a pic of the louts body. Can anybody direct me to a place to see it? Thanks.

[Crimson_Turkey]

Originally posted by SpongeBobSquarePants
I dont care if it can shoot 30 bps but there is only 2 ways someone cold do it in a game

A-U have a very bad case of the shakes

or

B-You have elptic seizure
and we all know its very hard to play while seizureing

A friend of mine can pull a trigger at 30bps. I'm dead serious but I am sword to secrecy. I can't tell you his secret.