Mag roller sear?

[Blennidae]

I have read a few messages about improving the trigger pull on mags. Has anyone ever considered making a sear with a roller bearing on the part that actually catches the bolt?

Seems to me that if it were possible, it would make the actual force required to pull the trigger a bit less.

[toymyster]

Not really, there needs to be a definite catch, so the roller would not make any diferrence (as the roller will have to roll past the lip of the bolt still)!!

[Kevmaster]

its not like a cocker sear...besides the Roller part on a cocker sear is on the trigger end, not the hammer end

[IcantBelieveit]

but still anywhere that you could reduce friction and make the action of pulling the trigger smoother is still good. like maybe some sort of roller on the hinge, and on the sear pin. like i said, anyhwhere that you could reduce friction is a plus. Just my .02 cents worth

[Blennidae]

I think IcantBelieveit and I are thinking along the same lines.

The current sear catches the lip of the bolt, so to release it, there is just 2 flat pieces for metal dragging across one another.

I just thought if there were a rolling surface it would reduce the force required to release the bolt.

[Vendetta]

Why not use a Teflon coating on the sear to reduce the friction?

[xen_100]

the teflon coating would be worn off before one days play was done. if you get the inteli blade, the pull is not that stiff.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Blennidae
I have read a few messages about improving the trigger pull on mags. Has anyone ever considered making a sear with a roller bearing on the part that actually catches the bolt?


I have. I believe that it could be done.
The problems are 1. I don't know how much it would reduce the pull by; 2. I don't have access to a machine shop.
Other than that, I believe it would work. :D

[athomas]

The roller sear would reduce the friction on the sear and thus the pull force. The problem is that the mag on/off - sear assembly relies on the bolt being held by the sear until a precise time where the edge of the sear falls below the edge of the bolt. On a roller sear the point of contact is not as precise. As the roller sear got near the edge of the bolt lip, the pressure on the bolt could force it to slip past the sear in an unpredictable manner.

[xen_100]

I dont think that is the case at all........the roller on the end of the sear would have a phsysical size. the bolt would have to be made to accept such a sear, but it would let go at the same point each time. It would have to, or it couldn't get past the bolt. it wont magically let the bolt go at varing points in the trigger pull. the bearing would still have to get by the bolt somehow.

[athomas]

When you are using a rounded roller surface and a force acting on it which is not perpendicular to the surface, then some of the force is deflected at the point of contact. Since the bolt can't move but the sear can, the force is transfered downward on the sear. A side effect of using this type of sear on a mag would be that there could be a grey area of operation where the trigger is not fully pulled but the bolt is starting to go forward as it rides on the roller.

Even in a specially designed bolt there will have to be a flat surface going past a round surface and deflection will occur.

[pballguy17]

somethign i thoguht u but never did.... adding a spring under the sear, under the on.off assembly. this would aid to the force going with ur trigger. but have less return push. also it might cause problems with the on/off. but alittle glue and a ball point pen spring can't hurt anything. if it doesn't work pull it out....

[magnj]

how about a roller on the sear tip, where it comes in contact with the trigger, with a special made rigger it could be realy nice. On a stock trigger it would probably make a realy long triggerpull

[AutomagN2]

And Newtons Third Law....lol

[joeyjoe367]

I think you guys are forgetting something.

With LvL-10 Guns (I'm ommitting lvl 7 guns, because lvl 10 is going to be the wave of the future) the main force that you're dealing with in the trigger pull is the on/off pressure.

when you pull the trigger, you're fighting the pressure in the on/off, not the sear.

Yeah, you could make the sear smoother, but that wouldn't do nearly enough to compensate for the pressure in the On/off.

hehe, the SEAR is FINE! go fix the on/off!! :D

[xen_100]

I dont think that is the case. you are not "fighting" ANY pressure in the on/off before you fire it. if the AIR valve has 350 PSI set to it, then there is 350 PSI on both side of the on/off, when it is idle. ther eis no differential of pressure, nothing to fight. pushing the on/off up or down at this point, should be very easy. Now, once the gun fires, there is a difference of pressure and it will want to open much more readily.

[drx975]

I love the threads like this, but I think we already have a better solution and thats the Medusa Frame, which utilizes magnets and probably reduces friction by a considerable amount. A roller bearing should really work, but I still have to read all the posts in this thread to see if anyone has successfully proven it won't work...
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when you pull the trigger, you're fighting the pressure in the on/off, not the sear.

Good point that is completely right with Level 10 guns. I can prove it if you dont believe me or him. When you first fired the Level 10 bolt with the correct setup (maybe the one you have now) did you not notice that the pull was lighter? Ok, assuming you did not - you know that the first stage of the bolt movement is low pressure right? What this means is that the way the bolt was designed, it restricts a lot of air from flowing through the bolt until the bolt has moved forward a certain amount. By the time the air is allowed to flow through with full pressure, the sear has no contact with the bolt. So..what I am trying to say is that the Level 10 bolt is in a low pressure stage when in contact with the sear, therefore the bolt is not pushing on the sear as much as it did with a level 7 bolt. In other words, reduced friction.

So adding this roller bearing would most likely do some good in Level 7 guns, and I bet that the roller bearing would create a trigger pull similar in "smoothness" to the Level 10 pull.

[TheJester]

most of the resistance is in the on/off valve, yes the presure may be equal on both sides, but the presure you're fighting is the air above the pin, squeezing the air to 1 side or the otherand in terms of the ball, needs a little refining, if it would release at a certain point, every time, i don't know, but it wouldn't just release when it hit the top, because of the angle created, to keep things simple, i just used a rectangle, but it gets the point across