Pan Am Las Vegas - Limited Paint Good/Bad?

[aaron_mag]

Pan Am Las Vegas is going on and it is a limited paint event. Personally I'd love to play in a limited paint tournament (local....too busy to travel or be gone for a long period of time).

Just curious what the consensus is on AO. Do you like the limited paint format (500 rounds for 10 man and 200 rounds for 5 man) or are you all for hauling around as much as you can shoot? Also do you see a big difference in play at the Pan Am events?

[ogre55]

I think that a limited paint format is great idea. It forces players to rely less on ROF and more on skill and accuracy. However, I may the exception on AO, rather than the rule, as I play stock class as often as I play open class.

Ogre

[Spaceman613]

limited paint GOOOOOOD

Cant wait to play a few of those formats. Right now I play rec and practices with a limited paint. I get tired of shooting 3-7 tubes in 5 mintes.

BUT limited paint wont be the norm. Lower paint sales, and paint sponsorships mean less. Sell less paint, make less money. And to make up for that lost money you might have to raise entry. Higher entry looks bad.

And some people are afraid to limite thier paint usage. I know a few locals that I doubt could ever shoot less than 3 pods a game. Even when they are playing against pumps.

[Curly]

For me it is a toss-up. It becomes much cheaper to play the limited paint tournaments. For 10 man it is about a hopper and two pod which is not too bad. You are also allowed to switch paint around between players. Thus a back player can steal a few pods from the guys up front. Our 10 man is most likely going to play the 10 man pan am circuit next year. The only problem is that many teams cheat the system, they will sneak paint onto the fields. there are various ways of doing this. You can drop pods in bunkers before the game. This is what Bob Long was RUMORED to be doing at the sacramento pan am event. The pan am needs to wise up and realize that using teams to ref events makes them very biased etc.

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Spaceman613
And some people are afraid to limite thier paint usage. I know a few locals that I doubt could ever shoot less than 3 pods a game. Even when they are playing against pumps.

BOO, i know your talking about me:) anyways

i love you


Cliff

[ogre55]

That's a serious allegation Curly. I have always been of the opinion that unless hard evidence to a fact is shown to me, I let rumors alone.

However, if this were true, it would be a downright shame. I have looked on at the Pan Am Circuit as the NPPL's smaller, wiser and more civilized cousin. An alternative to the madness and cheating that goes on in the NPPL. I would hate to be proven wrong.

Ogre

[dre1919]

I would be all for limited paint tournaments, it would be just like the old days for me. I feel sometimes I've almost become a victim of my own evolution really, since when I started playing with splatmasters and pumps I could play for like twenty bucks a day. Now, ten years later, I don't get to play as much as I'd like because I shoot a lot more paint. Part of that is my playing style altering a bit, but mostly it's from vastly improved equipment and the luxury that affords me. I like shooting paint as much as the next guy, and I definitely believe in (and practice) skill over ROF, it would just be nicer if paint was cheaper. (Of course, I'm also an artist so I'm screwed on money.) :D Anyway, I think a limited paint tourney would give people a better chance to play more often without having to plan around getting two hundred bucks together for entry and case(s) of paint.

[Curly]

Originally posted by ogre55
That's a serious allegation Curly. I have always been of the opinion that unless hard evidence to a fact is shown to me, I let rumors alone.

Ok, it is true that i dont know this as a fact. But i have heard it from multiple people who claim to have seen it happen. I also have talked to many of the top pan am rookie and novice teams and i know that many of them sneak paint onto the field. I do not condone this but i will tell you that it is a problem. This is one reason i do not like the pan am. If you are not trying to cheat the system and you only take what you are allowed to take onto the field then you have an unfair advantage. I find this to be very wrong and messed up.

The pan am is also very well known for sandbagging. A certain rookie team (not gonna mention names) played the la pan am with at least three novs and i believe one am player. thus the other teams which were only allowed two novs had an unfair advantage.

[toymyster]

I like the PanAm format!! I think limmiting the paint is a great idea!! And yes, there are people who sneak extra paint onto the field. Friend of mine who played Am did it on a few occasions!! Is it right? Of course not! Are they trying to limit it?? Yes. Is it going to continue to happen? Unfotunately!! But overall, I think they have a good system going!!

[Crazy]

limited paint format is directed toward the hobos of paintball.

[Gijim]

Hobos of paintball...uuummm...:rolleyes: well anyway back to reality, I like the limited paint idea. It values skill over spray and pray but there is a place for both and as already mentioned some paint dealers will never allow limited paint. We always play with limited paint so we don't get in the habit of shooting strings of 50 and exposing ourselves too long. Plus I dislike people camping in the back and hosing down the other side, its boring and lacks skill, sorry just my opinion. :cool:

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Curly


Ok, it is true that i dont know this as a fact. But i have heard it from multiple people who claim to have seen it happen. I also have talked to many of the top pan am rookie and novice teams and i know that many of them sneak paint onto the field. I do not condone this but i will tell you that it is a problem. This is one reason i do not like the pan am. If you are not trying to cheat the system and you only take what you are allowed to take onto the field then you have an unfair advantage. I find this to be very wrong and messed up.

The pan am is also very well known for sandbagging. A certain rookie team (not gonna mention names) played the la pan am with at least three novs and i believe one am player. thus the other teams which were only allowed two novs had an unfair advantage.

Sigh. My perceptions shattered. I was hoping the Pan Am was a more "clean" alternative, but with what I hear, I am not so sure anymore. I guess when $$ is on the line, no amount of personal honor wins out, for some people. Human nature wins out again.

The thing I don't get is how would a team sneak extra paint on the field before a game?

Ogre

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Crazy
limited paint format is directed toward the hobos of paintball.

Crazy, if that was meant as sarcastic, than it was and damn funny. If you were serious, or trying to start a flame war, which your sig seems to indicate, than do me a favor and stay off this board, you troll. :mad:

Ogre

[shartley]

I think limited paint is a good idea. When I play, I often play hopper ball, or hopper and ONE pod. It makes you think more about your shots as well as making each shot count.

I feel that the skill needed to play with limited paint is much higher than that needed to play with “unlimited” paint. It is much easier to spray an area with 100 paintballs, and get an elimination, than it is to actually make the elimination with only 5 or 6. This is not saying that using massive amounts of paint does not take any skill, because it does, but there is much more room for error.

Of course paint manufactures may not like this…. after all the more paint they can sell, the better they do. And heaven help us (or tourney players) if to make the same amounts of money, they increase the price of paint….. I think this could be a two edged sword.

Another good thing IMHO that can come from limited paint tournaments will be that the “marker hype” about speed will be blown out of the water. And Pro players will actually be forced to play more along the same lines as “the 13 year old kid next door” who can not afford massive amounts of paint. It will bring up a new bread of “hero” for the general paintball community. Tournaments will be more like a western shootout where both parties have the same amount of ammo, and the actual aim and tactics will be the focus and not the ability to paint an entire area until you get the elimination.

So… overall, I think it is a good thing. It would turn the game back into who is the better player, and not who can shoot the most paint the fastest.

[pito189]

Originally posted by shartley
It will bring up a new bread of “hero” for the general paintball community.

Although a yeasty player might get more eliminations....:) hehe

Seriously though. This brings up the same argument pump vs semi. It is personal choice what you play pretty simple. I do agree with paint manufacturers probaly not allowing every tourney to go to the limited paint scheme. They wouldn't make the money they do today. Just like the Oil manufacturers not being bigs fans of alternative fuels. How will they make their money if people fill up with cooking grease from home instead of heading to the local Minute Mart.

[shartley]

Originally posted by pito189


Although a yeasty player might get more eliminations....:) hehe

Seriously though. This brings up the same argument pump vs semi. It is personal choice what you play pretty simple. I do agree with paint manufacturers probaly not allowing every tourney to go to the limited paint scheme. They wouldn't make the money they do today. Just like the Oil manufacturers not being bigs fans of alternative fuels. How will they make their money if people fill up with cooking grease from home instead of heading to the local Minute Mart.
I agree with this to a point... but I don't think it is quite like pump VS semi arguments. It is about the amount of ammo allowed per player, not the method of firing. ;)

(Added: I left the typo because it is funny. :D I didn't see it until you pointed it out though. :))

[aaron_mag]

Bread...yeast I get it finally...

Some of the most exciting times for me playing is when I realize I am low on ammo. You keep opening your hopper and saying to yourself "got to make these last ones count".

Personally I think limited paint would make for more exciting games. Anyone watching Pan Am Las Vegas want to comment. Army?.....

[Automaggin2]

i like it, but then again i dont. i think limited to 6 pods is fine, but not 500. I also try and limit myslef now. i moved from mid to front and i used to shoot up to 5 pods a game, i now shoot probably 2 pods at max

[aaron_mag]

Okay here is what I don't get. You feel like 500 rounds is too much of a limit. Six pods is 840 rounds plus the hopper gives you around 1,000 rounds or half a case. At $60 a case that is $30 for one game of paintball (not day game). Now according to the US Government I am in the highest tax bracket possible...so if I feel that I can't afford to spend that kind of money then I can guarantee that some people shouldn't be spending that kind of money on one game.

I've been to some local tournaments but won't play anymore until they are limited paint formats. Don't get that much enjoyment out of shooting that much. Sorry I guess that in the end I am a rec baller and a newb. Of course I have this strange plan of hopefully having my house paid off by the time I am 40. Not to mention other investments....

[SHAG]

HI,

Here is my concept of limited paint. What you can carry in one fill of your tank. If your marker can shoot 500 rounds on a fill or 2500 rounds, that is your limit. My E mag gets about an extra 200 rounds on a fill if I unload my pack and hopper. That is about 950 rounds right there.5 140s and 180 in the hopper

Seriously, limited paint is a good concept. Pam Am tried to take hold in the eastern part of the country but with no avail. Pam AM does really well in the west where I guess people don't shoot more than a few hundred rounds a day :) I hear play out west is totally different.

Limited Paint as a class in X ball might work and help legitimize the sport more. When you limit the amount of paint, you are giving another standard. It is forming a rule to a sport that is trying to become legit. For example, Baseball has 3 outs a team. Both top and the bottom of the inning are equal. It is not 4 outs for the home team and 2 for the visiting team.

I can go into a essay in how to make paintball legit or something along those lines but I am tired to write it all out.

Later,
Alan

[pito189]

Originally posted by SHAG
HI,

Here is my concept of limited paint. What you can carry in one fill of your tank. If your marker can shoot 500 rounds on a fill or 2500 rounds, that is your limit. My E mag gets about an extra 200 rounds on a fill if I unload my pack and hopper. That is about 950 rounds right there.5 140s and 180 in the hopper

Seriously, limited paint is a good concept. Pam Am tried to take hold in the eastern part of the country but with no avail. Pam AM does really well in the west where I guess people don't shoot more than a few hundred rounds a day :) I hear play out west is totally different.

Limited Paint as a class in X ball might work and help legitimize the sport more. When you limit the amount of paint, you are giving another standard. It is forming a rule to a sport that is trying to become legit. For example, Baseball has 3 outs a team. Both top and the bottom of the inning are equal. It is not 4 outs for the home team and 2 for the visiting team.

I can go into a essay in how to make paintball legit or something along those lines but I am tired to write it all out.

Later,
Alan

I don't see how limiting paint, and making it standard would do any good. I understand teams might have sponsorships or something along those lines. But it's not like other teams are limited to not carry just as much paint or more. Everyone can carry just as much as they want.

Late night ramble = over.

[SeeK]

Originally posted by shartley
Of course paint manufactures may not like this…. after all the more paint they can sell, the better they do. And heaven help us (or tourney players) if to make the same amounts of money, they increase the price of paint….. I think this could be a two edged sword.

Another good thing IMHO that can come from limited paint tournaments will be that the “marker hype” about speed will be blown out of the water. And Pro players will actually be forced to play more along the same lines as “the 13 year old kid next door” who can not afford massive amounts of paint. It will bring up a new bread of “hero” for the general paintball community. Tournaments will be more like a western shootout where both parties have the same amount of ammo, and the actual aim and tactics will be the focus and not the ability to paint an entire area until you get the elimination.


You make it sound like the paint companies would go out of business if the tourneys didn't exist. Limited paint would probably save them $$$ because of the sponsorships. Limited paint would mean that the sponsorship would be "worth less" to the teams but also mean that the company could budget how much a sponsorship would cost. This would mean for a given budget they could sponsor more/smaller teams. How is this bad?

Limited paint format has more benefits:
Teams can actually budget how much a tourney will cost and save up. This will only make the number of teams in a tourney grow so increased entry won't really affect the teams except put a cap on expenses. This also allows smaller companies to sponsor teams.
The most immediate benefit is that the games will be closer to schedules because the fields don't have to be cleaned as often of the massive amounts of paint left after each game.

[einhander619]

Ltd paint format rocks! I played limited in the PanAm back when it was the Great Western Series. However, I think 200 rounds is a rather ill-conceived number nowadays. Since most hoppers anymore can't hold 200 balls, I think that the amount of paint should be 300, in two 150 round tubes, given to players as they enter the field. Whoever said conserving ammo is a rush is right on! There's nothing like having 15 shots left, and maling them count!

[shartley]

Originally posted by SeeK
You make it sound like the paint companies would go out of business if the tourneys didn't exist. Limited paint would probably save them $$$ because of the sponsorships. Limited paint would mean that the sponsorship would be "worth less" to the teams but also mean that the company could budget how much a sponsorship would cost. This would mean for a given budget they could sponsor more/smaller teams. How is this bad?
Sorry you read that in what I wrote, but I didn’t even come close to saying companies would go out of business if tourneys didn’t exist. Heck, I didn’t even say anything about tourneys not existing at all.

Please folks, if you want to use what I write and comment on it, please comment on WHAT I right. And also use what I write in CONTEXT. I am FOR limited paint tourneys. LOL

Now to address the saving money from sponsorships thing. What? I can tell you that if you compare what they spend on Sponsoring a Team vs what they make selling paint you would probably find that the paint sold far outweighed the sponsorships. Besides, they would STILL sponsor teams. It is a part of the Advertising process. Heck, I don’t know too many teams that would turn down ANY sponsorship, no matter if it was worth a little, or a lot…. That is as long as it did not conflict with another sponsor of theirs. ;)

[aaron_mag]

Someone made an interesting point. Would more teams show up if there were more limited paint tournaments (as they could afford it???). If that were the case paint manufacturers might make about the same amount of money. Don't know if it is really true.....

[Spaceman613]

No... some teams are afraid of limited paint.

Maybe they need the insurance of extra paint on thier back. or maybe they just know they can finacially gain an advantage.

Ive found only the same number, and sometimes less, show interest in a limited paint format.

And the hardest part is, what is the limit? 500 bag per 3 man team? 2 pods? 20 pods per man :)

[Automaggin2]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
Okay here is what I don't get. You feel like 500 rounds is too much of a limit. Six pods is 840 rounds plus the hopper gives you around 1,000 rounds or half a case. At $60 a case that is $30 for one game of paintball (not day game). Now according to the US Government I am in the highest tax bracket possible...so if I feel that I can't afford to spend that kind of money then I can guarantee that some people shouldn't be spending that kind of money on one game.

I've been to some local tournaments but won't play anymore until they are limited paint formats. Don't get that much enjoyment out of shooting that much. Sorry I guess that in the end I am a rec baller and a newb. Of course I have this strange plan of hopefully having my house paid off by the time I am 40. Not to mention other investments....


Well, big time tourney ball isnt for people who cant afford it. If you cant afford the paint, stay out, its your problem. I say 6 pods because back players spit out paint like crazy, and 500 rounds isnt enough. Off the break some back players shoot a hopper, and thats within 20 seconds of hte game. I do like the idea because it makes the game harder, but i still prefer more then 500 balls a game, for the sake of my back player