Hybrid yes or no

[JodoCast]

What do you all think hybrid in tourneys or not

tell me what you think

i would keep it

its awesome

[Prezents]

Explain Hybrid

[Schnitzel]

why not, it's still 1 shot per pull, unless you pull increibly slow, allowing the HES to shoot, then pull the trigger rod.....

[FESTUS33]

If Hybrid is how you're most comfy with you're
marker by all mean's use it. I prefer to run
my lever all the way back, because it gives me
a shorter trigger, but that's what work's for me.
If you're more comfy in hybrid you have 1 advantage
in that you don't have to reset you're lever if you're
battery dies. That's why I alway's charge my battery
every night at Tourney's. It's strictly a matter
of personal prefrence.
My .02
Festus

[magman007]

hybrid isnt going to give you any signifigant gain in rof unless you do it really slowly... I argued with muzik about this in the chat, and i got owned.. IT will not be out lawed, not before the was board......


I find it very fun to use, but it is not my main mode of fire... I always do straight e-mode

[TheTramp]

Personaly I just love the reactive feel with an "E" trigger pull. I feel that I can shoot faster with it.

[xen_100]

since an RT mag has to have all the reactivity taken out of the trigger to be toruny legal. sure go ahead, it will not benefit you.

[yeahthatsme]

nope, thats not true, its purely up to the tourney organizer, my local tournies alow reactive triggers, so does the nppl(i believe) as long as its one shot for one pull its legal for most purposes.

[MinimagRockin']

xen that's not entirely true. It still pushes the rod back harder than it takes to pull it, you just can't have it set up so that it will bounce.

[xen_100]

that is what I mean though. you cant have it so reactive that you can trigger bounce it. I think for NPPL, the trigger has to be as non-reactive as posible and still allow the gun to operate correctly.

[magman007]

reactive is not trigger bounce, that is reffered to runaway most of te time, we do not condone this....


trigger bounce not allowed in nppl? thats a funny one... ever see a matrix, or angel, or hell a timmy with was board trigger bounce????

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by magman007
reactive is not trigger bounce, that is reffered to runaway most of te time

FYI

Unfortunately, this "reffered" term is incorrect...

RT is a form of controlled sweet spotting... It is a method of mechanically assisted full-auto. Not uncontrollable. Stop pulling the trigger, the gun stops shooting.

Many times "Runaway" is incorrectly used as reference term.

Runaway = uncontrolled full-auto. You can't stop it. Stop pulling the trigger and the gun keeps on shooting until it is empty.

Example of Runaway = worn or overly modified sears that can not reset after cycling.

Clickhere (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49258&highlight=runaway) to see a video demonstration of what "runaway" really is.

[magman007]

oh, i remember the thread, just at 4 am i couldnt remember sweet spotting to save my life! thanks for clearing it up jack

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by magman007
oh, i remember the thread, just at 4 am i couldnt remember sweet spotting to save my life! thanks for clearing it up jack

NP brah... it's all good :)

I still bust a gut when I see:
http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=446767

[Xerces]

ahahahhhahahaha thats so funny.

glad mags don't kick like that =)

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by xen_100
you cant have it so reactive that you can trigger bounce it. I think for NPPL, the trigger has to be as non-reactive as posible and still allow the gun to operate correctly.

The first part is correct but the second is not.

If you can hold your finger in one spot and the trigger will bounce off it firing the gun each time it does (ie. "sweet spotting") then it's not legal.

Basicly, you can have you trigger as reactive as possible as long as you can't get it to bounce off your finger and thus fire without a complete trigger pull.

An example: If I turn my flatline up to 1000psi then I can pull the trigger and only let it out about 3/4 of the way and it will continue to fire as long as I just hold my finger there. This effect is illegal (not one pull, one shot). If I turn the input down to 900psi the trigger is very reactive but I can't get this bounce/sweet spot effect therefore it is legal.

[314159]

i see hybred mode comming to an end.

hybred mode was a byproduct of the original design of the emag. as a byproduct, it is allowed as the reactive trigger in the mag was, and a reactive trigger in a cocker wasn't at a tourney.

because of the refs not allowing a lot of emags to play, if they can get 2 shots per pull in hybred, some are working on a new selection mode mod.

there are 2 different thought paths (going to skip technical details):
one saying emode/manual
and one saying emode/manual/hybred

as far as the second one goes.... it would be a good idea, but as soon as hybred mode can be taken off without affecting the operation of the marker, it would no longer a byproduct. if this mod were to go thorough, hybred mode in the emag could be banned now, without affecting the normal operations of the emag.

the clasification of a sweetspotable trigger, or enhanced firing mode is very vauge.

[XR4]

Some people seems to have this notion that there's some great paintball rule book out there.

Actually, I played in four tournaments this fall with my emag and noone asked me to chronagraph in manual. Last time I played my gun had 30fps differance between a single shot without holding the trigger and a properly chronographed shot. Has anyone been kicked out of an event because they removed their manual trigger rod from their emag and cannot chrony properly???? I know of a few guns (not mine) with this setup and noones the wiser.

I lengthened the trigger rod on my emag for a little bounce (you don't get a really usefull hybrid without.) I set it so the rod is just behind the trigger when the hall effect engages. The pull is set long enough that the trigger gets a little jolt from moving past this engagement point when the sear returns. I get real nice 2-3 ball strings without really trying. Snap shootings a breeze.

Obviously, you shouldn't shave your on/off pin to nothing and crank your input to 1200 psi. Just set your gun up how you like. The worst you'll probably get is request to turn it down a bit.

Just my observations,
XR

[ReTroMagBoy]

sry to dig an old thread but what was the official NPPL ruling on hybrid mode??

BTW, why do you guys adjust your trigger rod for hybrid "bouncing" when all you have to do is adjust your hall sensor to fire VERY late in the trigger pull so when you are in manual w/battery on, ur sensor is triggered at the point right before you would engage a manual shot... :rolleyes:

[ddan_p]

well, when i shoot an emag, i personally prefer strait electric, I find it easier to shoot. I'm not very fast on hybrid actually.

[Thordic]

I've seen hybrid mode let off more than one shot per trigger pull a few times, and heard stories about that happening numerous times. It ISN'T always one-shot-one-pull.

[ReTroMagBoy]

if nothing is changed, the stock trigger will only fire two shots per pull in hybrid mode if you have the electronics on in manual mode and you trigger the hall sensor then continue to pull it back another cm or so engaging the trigger rod and firing the gun manually as well....this is NOT practical, does NOT increase ROF, and is NOT going to happen unintentionally....in this case i think hybrid mode SHOULD be legal.

on the other hand, you can make hybrid mode like an overreactive-RT on steroids if you adjust the hall sensor back far enough and/or adjust the trigger rod forwards. You get the ultra-light magnetic trigger pull, with the RTs reactive trigger return....insane ROF, definately not tourney legal...
I mean people can get regular RTs/ReTros to "bounce" and the trigger return force is only about double the force to pull the trigger...imagine that same trigger return force seen on RT valves coupled with an insanely light magnetic trigger pull to fire the gun. Its like a 3oz trigger pull with a 12lb trigger return!!!

i did this to my e-mag and was consistently hitting 14-15 bps with ease....the "sweetspot" on this type of trigger setup is overly huge and a slow trigger pull easily resulted in multi-shot bursts if u did not remove ur finger from the trigger...

:eek:

:D

i remember when i discovered this soon after everyone started getting e-mags i posted it on the forums and got a "shhhhhh" from RobAGD :p

[MarkM]

Just to try and make this simple hybrid/manual call it what you will...if the trigger bounces it ain't going on the field...sure in straight electro mode no bounce is gonna happen (in theory ;) )...thats why you always turn the e-mags to the manual mode when they are taken to the chrony. At the World Cup we stopped ALL bouncing triggers, well at least we did on my field, (did kinda make me smile inside when at a certain trade stand a luverrly Pink marker was demonstrated to bounce like crazy and I was informed that the person played with it set that way) would make my life a damned sight easier if I didn't have to look for bouncing triggers. This is a by product of the evolution of the marker but one that needs to be bred out (though it can be adjusted out) BTW have had several extended email conversations with Manike about this very subject and trust me guys we have both found things that would make your hair curl...on lots of different markers ;)