Is this legal? (school announcement)

[Sinnet]

Well, our (high school) principal came on the intercom system yesterday at the end of school, and made an announcement saying basically that:

any student who is drinking or attends a party where there is any alcohol or drugs being consumed will not be allowed to participate in school activities for one season (1/3 of the year)

now, our principal has been trying to crackdown on drinking (not that its affected anything), but I think this is going too far. With this, If I am hanging out somewhere with my friends and someone has a beer, and it gets reported, I'm kicked off any sports teams or activities i'm participating in.

Is this legal? I know theres nothing illegal being done here- can our school do this?

I don't drink myself, but several of my friends do, sorry if this post is incoherent but i'm pretty mad about this.

[oldsoldier]

Actually, yes it is legal. As the principal, the students are his number one priority. And school sports are voluntary, and funded (for the most part) by the school. So, he can, for almost any reason, limit who does and doesnt participate.

[cphilip]

Participation in after school activities are privaledges not "Rights". Just like Driving is. They can be revoked for whatever reason. And I commend your Principal for using them to cut down on Teenage deaths. I hope he sticks too it. Yes he can do it and there is nothing you can do about it but to obey that and not drink or do Drugs. Period.

Not only is he denying you this but its already illegal. I should hope he would extend this to any illegal activity too. Theft, Vandalism, Sexual Assault, Harasment both sexual and racial & etc.

Why should you be Mad? You said it doesn't affect you since you obey the law. Why should your friends who break the law be mad? They should not break the law. Simple as that. If they do then they lose a lot more than they did before. I got no sympathy for them if they do. Serves em right!

[spazzed]

He does have the right to limit who does & doesn't participate... However, he can't do a bloody thing unless the said drinking/drugs is done at a school related activity.

[oldsoldier]

Not true spazzed. I have seen people cut from hockey because of troublke outside of school (shoplifting). No charges were ever even brought on the kid, but, he was cut becuase it reflected badly on the team, and the school. Not to mention, it was just plain wrong.

[Sinnet]

cphillip, I think you missed part of it.

I, or anyone else who isnt drinking will be cut from sports/activities if I am anywhere where people are drinking.


I think a big thing that the principal doesn't realize is that when kids go to parties, usually there's at least one designated driver for every 4-5 kids

this new rule isn't going to make the drinkers stop drinking, but it will make the designated drivers not want to drive the drinking kids, because they would suffer the same punishment as them.

result: more drunks on the road

[cphilip]

drinkers and that will be somehow affected and therefore more dangerous is hardly going to win anyone over. In fact its definate proof that it's already out of hand if you have had to devise a entire plan for it. Those of you who are not drinking but acting as designated drivers are aiding them in the argument that they can drink! And most likly is why the Principal wants to break that relationship. Your assisting people in breaking the law.

Its a whole different thing if you are the designated driver for people old enough to drink. In that case your helping them obey the law. In your case your assisting them in breaking the law.

If they are going to drink and are underage they should stay put. If they cannot do that they shouldn't drink. Sometimes you have to just obey the laws. If you think kids should be able to drink at a younger age, then work to change the laws. But breaking them ends up giving your opponents more fuel to prove your wrong.

[Collegeboy]

Ok he is technically in the law, for both are illegal activities. I don't agree with it, but I do think it is within the rules.

[RetroEclipseMan]

I know it is where i live. In Enumclaw last year after prom a party was broken up by the cops and all the kids attending were reported to the school and Enumclaw High lost almost their whole girls basketball team because of it and it was bad since that team was one of the top ones in the state.

[lopxtc]

My whole problem with his rational in this quote is this ... You are HS students!! Outside of Montreal which has a drinking age of 18-19, you cannot drink till you are 21.

If you are able to legally drink while in HS then I think you have bigger issues to worry about other then sports.

This is in a basic sense what the military does in Boot Camp (basic for you non-Marines), if one screws up punish the whole. You are only as strong as your weakest link, and if you continue to get into trouble because of someone else one of two things will happen;

1) You will avoid the trouble maker ...

or

2) You will get the screw-head to behave according to how you are supposed to behave at your age.

Aaron


Originally posted by Sinnet
cphillip, I think you missed part of it.

I, or anyone else who isnt drinking will be cut from sports/activities if I am anywhere where people are drinking.


I think a big thing that the principal doesn't realize is that when kids go to parties, usually there's at least one designated driver for every 4-5 kids

this new rule isn't going to make the drinkers stop drinking, but it will make the designated drivers not want to drive the drinking kids, because they would suffer the same punishment as them.

result: more drunks on the road

[cphilip]

Well I do not think is should be done without some reasoned approach to each situation of the "non drinker/druggy" in the incident. I trust that he will show some judgement. However I think I see what he is doing. He is putting you all on "fair Notice" that he can do this. So now he feels he can follow through if he thinks you non drinkers/drug takers were not so innocent in the situation. I think fair notice is all he was intending to do. Because its evident from your reaction you did not realize he could. He is doing everything in his power to discourage Drug abuse amongst young people. And he knows if you are there you may be tempted or may be hurt. I think it may or may not work. He knows that to. But what else can he do? If it only makes one person not do it or one person not be in the wrong place at the wrong time he figures its worth it. He may be right!

[Sinnet]

I guess i'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you here cphillip-

I don't see kids acting as designated drivers as "aiding them in breaking the law" as much as it's looking out for their and others' safety by keeping them off the road. Yes, it's dumb that drunk kids would drive at all, but they're going to try to get home somehow.

Also, what about the kid who goes to the party, doesnt drive anyone but themself, and doesnt drink or do any drugs? Just there to hang out with some friends, and this kid gets kicked off his team.

Sure, you can say maybe he shouldn't be associating with these people, but in a school where the majority of the older students drink, that's not a very realistic option.

[shartley]

Is anyone aware of the term “assisting in the commission of a crime”? Are you kids aware that by knowing about a crime and allowing that crime to be committed and not doing anything to prevent it, and actually helping make it happen, is in itself against the law?

Designated Drivers, who do so to allow others who are under the legal drinking age to drink, are in essence breaking the law as well. And the answer to parties that serve alcohol to minors is easy… DON’T GO. It is your choice, either attend the parties and risk getting caught and suffer the punishment (whether you are drinking or not), or attend all school functions with pride.

I will tell you that this decision is not a new one. This past Football Season, our High School Football team was well on its way to being one of the best in the State. Most of the way through the season, the majority of the team threw a party where alcohol was served. The kids got out of hand, and the police were called. Every child at the party was suspended from all school activities for the rest of the year.

The Football Team was left with about 3 players and had to fill the team with JV players just to finish the season. And a good part of the team was Seniors… ooops for them. It was a big lesson that your actions in life and the decisions we make actually affect things.

Don’t blame the school system for standing up for the law and doing what they feel is in the best interest of the students….. obey the law and it will not affect you.

[Sinnet]

shartley, what about when someone is about to drive home and there's 2 drunk kids that need rides? is that assisting a crime? They've already had their beer/whatever...

And its not about parties serving alcohol, its where kids are hanging out somewhere and someone brings some alcohol. Can you really expect everyone to leave on the spot?

Another issue i can see is what happens when someone's sibling has a party where there is alcohol- they would be punished under this, for just staying in their house.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Sinnet
shartley, what about when someone is about to drive home and there's 2 drunk kids that need rides? is that assisting a crime? They've already had their beer/whatever...
If you are not at that party and the drinking was already done (say if you saw them walking down the street), no, it would not be assisting in a crime.

Originally posted by Sinnet
And its not about parties serving alcohol, its where kids are hanging out somewhere and someone brings some alcohol. Can you really expect everyone to leave on the spot?
Yes. Or have those who brought the alcohol leave.

Originally posted by Sinnet
Another issue i can see is what happens when someone's sibling has a party where there is alcohol- they would be punished under this, for just staying in their house.
Yup, such is life. Where are the parents? Did you know that the parents can be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor even if they didn’t know it was happening? You think being prevented from attending school functions is bad? Try being arrested for what your child did.

Don’t blame the laws, or the school, or anyone but those breaking the laws for the problems that happen because they break them. If a sibling gets in trouble because a party was thrown in their house, then blame the ones throwing the party, not the school.

[ShinyGuy]

IANAL and neither am I familier with Maine law but in most states drinking while underage is not a crime. Suplying alcohol to a minor is a crime. Public drunkenness is a crime. Possention of alcohol in public by a minor is a crime. Failing to prevent a crime is not a crime (with a few exceptions). And giving an impared friend a ride home is a noble thing to do.

That said, if you go to a private school they can do pretty much whatever they want. Unless they discriminate bassed on race, religeon, gender, etc. they can kick whomever they want to out of anything. Your best bet is to explain to your parents (or whoever is paying for your education) why this policy is a bad idea and have them take it up with the school. Most private schools listen to the people that pay them a lot more than they listen to the students.

If it's a public school you can add sexuality to the list of things they're not allowed to discriminate against, but you have less recource. If you're under 18 you are not a person in the eyes of the law and have almost no rights. It sucks but thats the way it is.

Fight the policy. Organize a petition. Get organized debates and convince the administration that this is a bad thing. But that's about all you can do. Good luck.

[dio91]

Three Words:

GUILT BY ASSOCIATION

Simple enough, right? I see what your saying, I would probably feel the same way, not hanging out with friends because they are doing that stuff and your not. But would you rather have a good night with some friends and ruin your chances with sports? Don't forget, something liek that gets rmemeber, and people spread the word, you're screwed. So I guess hang out with your friends and none of you drink or smoke, or find new friends.

dio

[Sinnet]

shinyguy- i'm 99% sure you're right, shinyguy, and the only thing maine law prohibits is supplying, buying, and transporting alcohol (and public drunkenness)

and it's a public school

I'm thinking about how i'd word a petition right now- this administration wouldn't be up for any debates on the subject, and thanks for the ideas

dio-
the only thing about the "a night with friends vs. school activities" is that it's every weekend night. This being a town in Maine, social life (this sounds weird) resolves around stuff like that.

[shartley]

Originally posted by ShinyGuy
IANAL and neither am I familier with Maine law but in most states drinking while underage is not a crime. Suplying alcohol to a minor is a crime. Public drunkenness is a crime. Possention of alcohol in public by a minor is a crime. Failing to prevent a crime is not a crime (with a few exceptions). And giving an impared friend a ride home is a noble thing to do.
Actually, by your own words, you admit that many of the situations involving minors and alcohol are covered by standing laws. And it is funny that those laws tend to hold everyone BUT the kid drinking responsible for the action. Funny how that is, isn’t it?

And I will point out that you are correct, that to not prevent a crime in itself may not be a crime in itself ( in all cases )…. unless in doing so you are assisting in the commission of that crime, which was my point.

There is also a big difference between simply giving an impaired friend a ride home, and being a designated driver for a gathering you know to be providing alcohol to minors. In that case, it is far from being “noble”.

Originally posted by ShinyGuy
That said, if you go to a private school they can do pretty much whatever they want. Unless they discriminate bassed on race, religeon, gender, etc. they can kick whomever they want to out of anything. Your best bet is to explain to your parents (or whoever is paying for your education) why this policy is a bad idea and have them take it up with the school. Most private schools listen to the people that pay them a lot more than they listen to the students.

If it's a public school you can add sexuality to the list of things they're not allowed to discriminate against, but you have less recource. If you're under 18 you are not a person in the eyes of the law and have almost no rights. It sucks but thats the way it is.
What? Folks under the age of 18 have MORE protection for their actions (and rights) than those over the age of 18. Drinking Alcohol on the other hand is not a RIGHT, neither is DRIVING. Try pulling a lot of crap kids do when you turn 18 and see what happens… oh yeah, kids have it SO bad. (See my comment above about holding everyone BUT the kid responsible for actions.)

Not to mention most of what you bring up has nothing to do with the issue of how a School System deals with underage drinking, sorry.

Originally posted by ShinyGuy
Fight the policy. Organize a petition. Get organized debates and convince the administration that this is a bad thing. But that's about all you can do. Good luck.
Good luck is right…. The policy is not wrong, and it will not change by a bunch of kids thinking it is wrong and organizing a petition.

[shartley]

Know your Laws. ;) Here is what Maine says about some of these issues…

Illegal Possession

It is a civil violation for any person under the age of 21 to possess liquor or imitation liquor except if it is within the scope of their employment or in their home in the presence of their parent. Fines for illegal possession are as follows:

1st Offense: $100.00 to $300.00
2nd Offense: $200.00 to $500.00
3rd or Subsequent Offenses: $500.00

Youths 17 years or younger are charged with juvenile crime of illegal possession.

Illegal Transportation Of Liquor

No person under the age of 21 shall transport alcoholic beverages in a motor vehicle except in the scope of their employment or at the request of their parent. The penalties for illegal transportation are:

1st Offense: 30 Day license suspension and a fine no more than $500.00
2nd Offense: 90 Day license suspension and a fine not less than $200.00
3rd Offense: One year license suspension and a fine no less than $400.00

Furnishing Liquor to a Minor

Any person who furnishes liquor to a minor, or allows a minor under that person's control, or in any place under that person's
control, to possess or consume liquor, may be fined $2,000.00 and/or sentenced up to one year in jail. If the minor is less than
14 years of age, or the violation is a second offense within six years, the fine shall not be less than $500.00. For any third or subsequent offense within six years, the minimum penalty is $1,000.00 fine and up to six months in jail.

Furnishing Imitation Liquor to a Minor

Any person who furnishes imitation liquor to a minor, or allows a minor under that person's control to possess, or consume imitation liquor, may be fined up to $500.00 and/or sentenced to six months in jail

Maine Liquor Liability Act

The Maine Liquor Liability Act was established to form a legal basis for obtaining compensation for damages as a result of
intoxication and related incidents. A non-licensed, social host (a person who does not hold a Maine Liquor License) can be sued for negligent or reckless conduct.

By definition, negligent conduct is the serving of liquor to a minor or intoxicated person, if the defendant knows or a reasonable and prudent person being served is a minor or is visibly intoxicated.

Reckless Conduct is the intentional serving of liquor to a person when the server knows the person being served is a minor, or visibly intoxicated, and the defendant consciously disregards an obvious and substantial risk that serving liquor to that person
will cause physical harm to the drinker or to others.

Financial Implications

Damages may be awarded for property damage, bodily injury, or death caused by the consumption of liquor served by the defendant. The limit on awards is $250,000.00 plus medical expenses.

[Sinnet]

shartley, i'm impressed :D

thanks for finding that, good stuff to know, although I know personally that when cops in my town find a party where kids are drinking, all they do is tell people to go home.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Sinnet
shartley, i'm impressed :D

thanks for finding that, good stuff to know, although I know personally that when cops in my town find a party where kids are drinking, all they do is tell people to go home.
It was actually pretty easy to find.

As for the enforcement of laws, that is another story. The same way as when a Police Officer pulls a person over for a Moving Violation they don’t always issue a ticket. Many things are left up to the Officer. I would bet however, that if folks were actually charged for breaking underage alcohol laws, and on a regular basis, people would better realize what the laws actually are, and take them more seriously. After all, a law is only as good as its enforcement.

And since kids are “let off”, they think they are not actually breaking any laws…. But as you can see, they are. And the law is broken before they even take one drink.

I hope this helped you with your problem, and that you can see that spending time trying to fight your School’s policy on this matter may be a good exercise in the process of appeal, but it would do little good changing the policy since the laws are on their side. I would however, suggest having your school post the actual laws along with their policy. I think it would help alleviate a lot of misunderstandings and ignorance on the matter.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by shartley

Furnishing Imitation Liquor to a Minor

Any person who furnishes imitation liquor to a minor, or allows a minor under that person's control to possess, or consume imitation liquor, may be fined up to $500.00 and/or sentenced to six months in jail

.

2 things: What is Imitation liquor? A Virgin Bloody Mary?:D :confused:

As a minor realize that you do not have the same rights as an adult for many different reasons. I must take issue with the level of maturity being shown if you feel that being an Accessory to a criminal act is nobel. It is illegal for a minor to drink!! Therefore your principle should be commended for taking this stand as unpopular as this may be with the students. I bet you there are not many parents who will protest this and as they are the ones who foot the bill for your schoolong, they are the ones that your principle must keep happy, NOT YOU!

Last spring, a Camden County high school had an issue with a number of students getting caught at a party where booze was served. Amoung them were the class valedictorian (you think if any one would know better it would have been him). As a result, over 15 kids were not allowed to attend graduation. The New validictorian was actually ranked 4th in her class, but numbers 2 and 3 were just as dim as number 1. Guess what, the only people who complained where the parents of those kids and they were beat down and humiliated at the meeting they protested at by the rest of the senior class parents that attended.

Grow up, wait for 21 then you can become a noble designated driver. If you must drink before then, join the army! They let you drink on base at 18!:D

[shartley]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
2 things: What is Imitation liquor? A Virgin Bloody Mary?:D :confused:
LOL I think you know what that is. :) But just in case…. It would be any drink that resembles, tastes, or simulates an actual alcoholic drink, but contains no alcohol.

For those that don’t understand why this is like it is, I would offer that it is easier to make those drinks illegal for underage people than it would be to test every drink for actual alcohol content. It is similar to robbing a store with a fake gun being the same as robbing it with a real one.

[yeahthatsme]

i commend your principle for what he did. this is already in effect in my area.


shartleys right, its not hard to avoid situations that will include breaking the law. if you know a party will have alcohol dont go and dont volunteer to be a designated driver, you are only giving people the chance to get you in trouble. its not hard, just do it.

[RetroEclipseMan]

Originally posted by shartley

LOL I think you know what that is. :) But just in case…. It would be any drink that resembles, tastes, or simulates an actual alcoholic drink, but contains no alcohol.

For those that don’t understand why this is like it is, I would offer that it is easier to make those drinks illegal for underage people than it would be to test every drink for actual alcohol content. It is similar to robbing a store with a fake gun being the same as robbing it with a real one.

Wow!! I didn't know that was a law. It must be different in Washington because I've gotton non alcoholic margeritas(sp) and danqueries many times in restaraunts, and no my parents were not there either. weird.

[Wheelman]

Originally posted by shartley
Know your Laws. ;) Here is what Maine says about some of these issues…



You beat me too it. Maine is pretty backwards as far as enforcment goes, and the youth of this state in general are pretty stupid (I know I'm gonna get flammed for that one, but remember, I used to be a Maine youth, and I get to see first hand every day the results pumped through our prison system) Most of the problems that we have are usually due to a lack of good common sense. Kids around here (and I've seen it other areas) a lot of them don't have the best home life (either parent don't care, or thier drunk or in prison) so they aren't given the best life examples. I do feel bad for these kids, but then you have the other end of the spectrum. The kids who had the good homelife, nuturing parents, and good examples who just rebel. Whether it be peer pressure or just not caring what happens. Maine's drug problem is very high as well and that doesn't help it any either. Don't get me wrong, for the bad, there are always the good that emerge, I'm not going to turn this into a sob story about my homelife I will say a lot can be acomplished with common sense. So basically listen to what the grownups (for lack of a better word) say, chances are they have been there before and speak from experience. They know what they're talking about.


FYI In February of this year, we opened a brand new state of the art (which translates into:nothing works right) 1000 bed prison to update our overcrowded 200 year old 460 bed facility. It is now December and we are almost at capacity. Most of this comes from repeat offenders getting stiffer sentences (mostly assault and drugs) and I want to say 80% of them are between 18-25. And most of them are punks that remind me of the kids I grew up with.

Let the flames begin, but respect your elders.

[Automaggin2]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


2 things: What is Imitation liquor? A Virgin Bloody Mary?:D :confused:

As a minor realize that you do not have the same rights as an adult for many different reasons. I must take issue with the level of maturity being shown if you feel that being an Accessory to a criminal act is nobel. It is illegal for a minor to drink!! Therefore your principle should be commended for taking this stand as unpopular as this may be with the students. I bet you there are not many parents who will protest this and as they are the ones who foot the bill for your schoolong, they are the ones that your principle must keep happy, NOT YOU!

Last spring, a Camden County high school had an issue with a number of students getting caught at a party where booze was served. Amoung them were the class valedictorian (you think if any one would know better it would have been him). As a result, over 15 kids were not allowed to attend graduation. The New validictorian was actually ranked 4th in her class, but numbers 2 and 3 were just as dim as number 1. Guess what, the only people who complained where the parents of those kids and they were beat down and humiliated at the meeting they protested at by the rest of the senior class parents that attended.

Grow up, wait for 21 then you can become a noble designated driver. If you must drink before then, join the army! They let you drink on base at 18!:D

Hey, im from Burlington County, right next to camden count, i go to Lenape High School. A few years ago the girls soccer team got caught drinking OUT OF SCHOOL, and the whole falculty found out about it. Nothing was done about it. They just got a prep talk. I dont think the school should get involved with a kids life out of school, i think its wrong.

[RPK]

a few things:
First a question, if a good friend goes to a party and drinks (I don't go because I know there is alcohol) but s/he calls me to give her/him a ride home, and I get pulled over with him/her in the car do I get into trouble?

Second:
Someone said something about schools should not get involved in students lives outside of school. I think that is wrong. Schools should get as involved in the students lives as possible. Once you graduate from HS and either go to college or work, your college and office will be in your personal life. With college it's a little less than in HS, mainly because the profs dont care if you show up-they'll just give you a big fat F. But if caught with drugs or alcohol sports players are suspended or kicked off the team for a specific amount of time. (I don't know if that is just the way it is in Private colleges-i go to a private college). In work the terms are different as well, but SOME offices wont allow relationships to take place (cant date coworkers, ect). But the biggest thing is your record follows you everywhere you go. From school to school, and from school to work, and even from school / work to family.

Always keep in mind that what you do, and what you allow your friends/family memebers to do follows you for a long time. Maybe 20 years down the road you may look back at high school and laugh at all the stupid things you did, or maybe you will regret some things. So when you are about to go do something with your buddies, always remember a few things: will you regret what you are about to do in the future? will these same "buddies" be there for you when you take the rap? Most importantly is what will you think of yourself when you are older?

Just my 2 cents.
RPK

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Sinnet
Well, our (high school) principal came on the intercom system yesterday at the end of school, and made an announcement saying basically that:

any student who is drinking or attends a party where there is any alcohol or drugs being consumed will not be allowed to participate in school activities for one season (1/3 of the year)

now, our principal has been trying to crackdown on drinking (not that its affected anything), but I think this is going too far. With this, If I am hanging out somewhere with my friends and someone has a beer, and it gets reported, I'm kicked off any sports teams or activities i'm participating in.

Is this legal? I know theres nothing illegal being done here- can our school do this?

I don't drink myself, but several of my friends do, sorry if this post is incoherent but i'm pretty mad about this.


This rule has been effect @ my school for about 4 years. So yes, the school can do it if they feel it is best for the students or for their own reasons.

[joeyjoe367]

IMO, Schools shouldn't be supporting sports teams to begin with. It's a SCHOOL for you to LEARN, damn it. I've seen athletics get in the way of studies WAAAAY too many times.

anyway, I see it 2 ways:

You can do it, or be around people doing it, and get caught. You get screwed, and get off the sports team, or whatever. No, it's not illegal for him to do that (as many above posts have explained).

You can do it, and not get caught. Remember, it's not illegal unless you get caught :D

...not condoning underage drinking, of course.