what about us poor starving college kids?

[shade23]

Hey just a thought here,

I am a huge mag fan (who isn't?), I own an automag RT with LX , Blade intelliframe, and an Evolution 2. what I want now is an x-mag but I am on a budget, why doesn't AGD have a payment plan for people like us, I am sure I am not the only one and I AM DYING TO GET MY HANDS ON AN X-MAG!!!!

[Laser]

What a payment plan? Get a credit card

[shade23]

yeah I am considering that as an option but I really have an objection to it because I would be tempted to spend myself into massive amounts of debt. Honestly though what would be so wrong about setting something like that up?

[shartley]

Yes, credit cards work, as well as saving up your money. Want a payment plan? Open an X-Mag Savings account and keep paying into it until you have enough to buy one. ;)

College kids are not the only ones with limited funds. Some of us have large families, businesses, mortgages, as well as a slew of other bills that actually leave us with far less “expendable income” than college kids and many of the younger folks seen trotting around AO. LOL It is all about priorities and working harder for what you want, or saving up for it. Life is not always “easy” and sometimes we have to hold off getting what we want, as well as sometimes never getting it.

I wish you all the luck in getting what you want, but it really is not AGD’s job to accommodate those who don’t have the funds to purchase their products, by setting up payment plans or layaways. They are not Walmart, they are the manufacturer. I think payment plans and layaway programs would be a great idea for Paintball Shops, but not manufacturers.

[JEDI]

Shartley, I'd like to compare my "lack of expendable income" when I was in school to any working family man. I once collected aluminum cans around campus for a week just to buy a $3.75 six pack of Bud Dry.:( Thats pathetic.

No, honestly though I agree with you. I've always been an advocate of save your pennies if you really want some thing. There's no easy way out.

[shartley]

Originally posted by JEDI
I once collected aluminum cans around campus for a week just to buy a $3.75 six pack of Bud Dry.:( Thats pathetic.
I could not agree more….. Bud Dry? ;)

:D

[JEDI]

Beggers cant be chosers. It would have been two weeks for Sam Adams:D

[synreal]

you really don't <b>need</b> all of your fluids you know...

http://kstatecollegian.com/issues/v100/su/n162/city-plasma-fassnacht.html

;)

[ben_JD]

I have been placing cash money in an envelope weekly, bi-weekly, etc. so that when the X-Mag gets here, I'll have enough money to slam on the counter so that I can walk out with my new toy.

Of course, due to the delays, I have now saved up enough so that I can get the X-Mag, Evil Pipe (which I now have), a Flatline and enough paint to re-do the Taj Mahal. Of course, the weather here in N. Texas has taken a bad turn and I probably will not see a game of paintball until March. C'est la vie.

[digitard]

I would assume the reason they dont have a payment plan is because it'd be costly to them "out of pocket" ... because they'd have to manufacturer the mag, and even though they'd eventually get the mag money back (say 9 months) they had to pay for it up front, put that on a larger scale they're manufacturing 100 mags and thats gonna get quite costly out of pocket for them, and since they're s smaller company thats gonna ding em hard. Then what happens if ya dont pay? They have to go and try to collect which is gonna cost them more money, adn if you still dont pay they send it to a collection agency who buys it back for 70 cents on the dollar and they've lost 30% of the money they'd make.

Its just hard for a smaller company to do, although I personally would like to see it, its unlikely.

Sincerely,
Dave

[Termite]

LOL, You think the weather is bad in Texas, try comming to Michigan. We are still paying outside!:p

PS> I'm in college to.......I'm never going to have enough for an x.....too many student loans


Termite

[IAMJaws]

Guitar companies actually have payment plans, so do some pet stores. I don't think it's that unreasonable.

[Restola]

Credit cards are great, but they should really be used as emergency funds. In non-emergency situations, the best thing you can do is not put anything on your credit card that you cant pay off by the end of the month. Force yourself to do this, and you'll be on easy street when it comes time to buy a house or new car. And you wont have to call me and expect me to figure out a way for your credit not to get ruined (I have worked at a credit card company for the last few years).

[shartley]

Originally posted by IAMJaws
Guitar companies actually have payment plans, so do some pet stores. I don't think it's that unreasonable.
Pet stores? LOL No offense but pet stores are not quite the same as manufacturers of a product.

Also most of the pet stores around here allow payments, but it is really financed through a bank, just like buying a car. You fill out a form, they do a credit check, and then they get a financial company to back the process. Granted not all of them are like that, but quite a few are. There are lots of ways these things are set up.

After more thought though, I would not finance a paintball marker, or allow payments for them (unless it was lay-away) if it was me. The risk of “return” would not be worth it to me as a business. You can not sell a returned Marker as “new”, and you just lost money. Plus, what if the folks just don’t want to pay? The hassle of trying to collect on a debt is a mess, and anyone who has gone through that knows exactly what I am talking about.

The risk has to be outweighed by the benefit…. And with paintball equipment, I just don’t see it. Some might disagree with this, and they are free to do as they wish, but I would not do it.

[shade23]

"Yes, credit cards work, as well as saving up your money. Want a payment plan? Open an X-Mag Savings account and keep paying into it until you have enough to buy one.

College kids are not the only ones with limited funds. Some of us have large families, businesses, mortgages, as well as a slew of other bills that actually leave us with far less “expendable income” than college kids and many of the younger folks seen trotting around AO. LOL It is all about priorities and working harder for what you want, or saving up for it. Life is not always “easy” and sometimes we have to hold off getting what we want, as well as sometimes never getting it."

I see your point with your perspective on credit cards and saving. That is exactly how I am paying my way through college, I worked for two years to earn enough money to support myself and pay tuition.
I would like to point out, however, that those people with mortgages and bills have made a choice to make GRADUAL payments on the things that they have bought. When you buy a car you finance it, it seems to me that it would not be entirely unfeasable to have a similar arrangement for the purchase of a marker (especially when your talking about this high level type of marker). As far as the a small company worrying about the return of their products and the hassle of credit, it is simple enough to include in any such arrangement an obligitory contract which details the terms of one's agreement between the manufacturer and the consumer.
I would also like to add that as a "younger" person I also see "young folks" with a lot of money and I can understand how that may seem like they are richer than the average working man. But the money they spend had to come from somewhere and probably not from their own pockets, often times "mommy and daddy" happen to be in a financially advantagous situation and vicariously so to does the child. This raises a deeper issue than me just griping about my lack of an x-mag, it comes down to a developing schism in paintball, between those that have money and those that do not. There are plenty of us with the will and talent to play on the same level as those with money and more advantagous positions. All I am asking for is the chance to level the field.

[alkafluence]

Originally posted by shartley

I could not agree more….. Bud Dry? ;)

:D

Why ask why... try Bud Dry! (slogan for the marketing campaign they ran)


Not to get off topic, but I hate "domestic beers."

[shartley]

Originally posted by shade23
As far as the a small company worrying about the return of their products and the hassle of credit, it is simple enough to include in any such arrangement an obligitory contract which details the terms of one's agreement between the manufacturer and the consumer.
I think you miss the fact that those "agreements" don't amount to much when the customer does not uphold their end. ;) That is what I was talking about. And again, unless you have tried to collect on a debt, even one involving a contract, the process is not quite what you think it is.

I can assure you that collecting on a debt of ANY kind is not as easy as one might think. Larger debts may be worth the hassle but smaller ones tend to not be. What may seem simple enough in theory, many times becomes far from it in practice. Even after you win a judgment in court, it does not mean the process is over for collecting the debt… often times it will take several trips to court, and YEARS of hassles.. if the person who owes the money just does not want to pay, or just doesn’t care.

Originally posted by shade23
I would also like to add that as a "younger" person I also see "young folks" with a lot of money and I can understand how that may seem like they are richer than the average working man. But the money they spend had to come from somewhere and probably not from their own pockets, often times "mommy and daddy" happen to be in a financially advantagous situation and vicariously so to does the child. This raises a deeper issue than me just griping about my lack of an x-mag, it comes down to a developing schism in paintball, between those that have money and those that do not. There are plenty of us with the will and talent to play on the same level as those with money and more advantagous positions. All I am asking for is the chance to level the field.
You think getting an X-Mag will level the field? I beg to differ. Have you shot an RT Pro? Have you shot a standard E-Mag? Sorry, the X-Mag is not the magic key you think it is. It is a nice marker, granted, but it is not the thing holding back your game, or anyone else’s.

[AlabamaMan]

I'm in college and i work two jobs to pay for the stuff that i need. Which last month happened to be an RT-Pro. I love paintball and i do what i need to do to keep playing. It's not that all college kids are poor it's just that some work harder to be less poor. Unless they buy an RT-Pro then they are poor again.

[Muzikman]

We are talking about $2000 here...I mean get a credit card that has a $2000 limit, buy the gun, cut the card in half and make the payment. Simple as that.

As for the level playing field, remember, the gun does not win you games. proof of that are the teams out there winning major tournaments with Spyders just so they can collect the nice winnings from Kingman (it happened at the IAO). You also have to remember, there really is not big advantage between the Emag and the Xmag besides looks, weight, ACE and on/off switch, none of which will win you a game.

[cphilip]

Don't worry...by the time you can buy one you will have the money...

[shade23]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shartley
[B]
I think you miss the fact that those "agreements" don't amount to much when the customer does not uphold their end. ;) That is what I was talking about. And again, unless you have tried to collect on a debt, even one involving a contract, the process is not quite what you think it is.

I can assure you that collecting on a debt of ANY kind is not as easy as one might think. Larger debts may be worth the hassle but smaller ones tend to not be. What may seem simple enough in theory, many times becomes far from it in practice. Even after you win a judgment in court, it does not mean the process is over for collecting the debt… often times it will take several trips to court, and YEARS of hassles.. if the person who owes the money just does not want to pay, or just doesn’t care.

You think getting an X-Mag will level the field? I beg to differ. Have you shot an RT Pro? Have you shot a standard E-Mag? Sorry, the X-Mag is not the magic key you think it is. It is a nice marker, granted, but it is not the thing holding back your game, or anyone else’s.


Yes I have had the oppurtinity to shoot an RT PRo, X-mag, 2002 intimidator, Emag, Angel ir3, Black magic cocker, Cold Fusion, GenX-3 and a variety of other markers. And again your right, its not the marker that makes the player neccesserily but you CANNOT deny that it helps. I play with and against a variety of teams here and through my experiences it is a very rare circumstance that the pros are shooting vm-68's and winning. Not to say that the occassional stock class wizard does not come along and kick the tale out most everyone, and I laude anyone with the tenacity to stick with something like that because it truly does require some precise playing ability.
Getting back to the issue at hand, agreements may not be enough but it certainly has proved binding especially when the status of ones credit has been reviewed and approved for such a financial venture. Car manufacturers, and a number of other companies seem to manage very nicely with approval of credit.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by cphilip
Don't worry...by the time you can buy one you will have the money...

Did anyone else find this vaugely depressing.....:(

[shade23]

Originally posted by AlabamaMan
I'm in college and i work two jobs to pay for the stuff that i need. Which last month happened to be an RT-Pro. I love paintball and i do what i need to do to keep playing. It's not that all college kids are poor it's just that some work harder to be less poor. Unless they buy an RT-Pro then they are poor again.

and I do what I can for paintball, my team, and the things I love too. I am not even say that I am poor or destitute but it would certainly help to have alternative options other than being tunnled into either getting a credit card or working massive amounts of time and trying to maintain a 4.0 average. I am not saying my load is any different from anyone elses.

[shartley]

Originally posted by shade23
Getting back to the issue at hand, agreements may not be enough but it certainly has proved binding especially when the status of ones credit has been reviewed and approved for such a financial venture. Car manufacturers, and a number of other companies seem to manage very nicely with approval of credit.
How much do Car Companies finance? $2,000? Sure, sometimes at a small car lot. But normally it is substantially higher than that…. same with Home Loans, etc. And how much do companies MAKE off of financing? Go check out what a $250,000 home will actually cost you when you get a Mortgage. Do the same with Auto Financing.

Also, have you ever been privy with the inside workings of credit, credit card, or collections operations? I have. I deal with all of them. ;) And it still comes down to risk VS benefit ratio. So, like I have stated, it would not be a risk I would want to take for such small amounts of money…. that could end up costing me more in the long run. I would bet the demographic that would be most interested in financing a paintball marker would not be quite the same as that wanting to finance a brand new car, or home…. but I could be wrong.

[shade23]

funny that on one hand a company can say that they have too much to lose by making alternative arrangments and at the same time they also can claim that the cost is small.
As far as the demographic goes, we all know that as a sport, paintball spans almost all groups. But if your inferring that the people who would be interested are limited to a specific group I would have to disagree. I know a "family man" with two cars, two kids, a decent (though by no means wealthy) job who would love to have an x-mag and play, at the same time I know others in my position that would like to have the same opportunity to purchase an x-mag.

[shartley]

Originally posted by shade23
funny that on one hand a company can say that they have too much to lose by making alternative arrangments and at the same time they also can claim that the cost is small.
It takes the same amount of money to collect on a $200,000 debt as it does to collect on a $2,000 debt. Thus on one hand you CAN say it is too much money to lose, yet still be too small to want to take the risk involved in financing. I will say it again, it is a risk vs benefit ratio.

Now add to that if the product is having any problems being sold…. If the X-Mag runs into problems being sold, then a person MIGHT think financing would be a good answer. However, when the product is looks like it will not have any difficulties leaving the shelves, why bother? Seems to me that AGD could not keep up with demand, not the other way around. ;)

I mean no disrespect, but clearly you don’t understand the principles or processes involved in these operations.

Originally posted by shade23
As far as the demographic goes, we all know that as a sport, paintball spans almost all groups. But if your inferring that the people who would be interested are limited to a specific group I would have to disagree. I know a "family man" with two cars, two kids, a decent (though by no means wealthy) job who would love to have an x-mag and play, at the same time I know others in my position that would like to have the same opportunity to purchase an x-mag.
There are always those who deviate from the base demographic…. that is a business fact. But I think most businesses rely on the odds and the norm to form a business decision, not the other way around. No disrespect was intended by my comments, to any group.

Before thinking a company will institute a new policy, product, or payment arrangement, you have to look at it from all angles. I fully understand your desire, and reasons for it… I just don’t see it as a real benefit for AGD to do it. Hey, but look at the bright side of things.. I am not AGD! ;)

[shade23]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shartley
[B]

"I mean no disrespect, but clearly you don’t understand the principles or processes involved in these operations."

Granted that my main occupation is not business and again I see your points and I appreciate the time you have taken to explain what you feel are some of the concerns for not making such an arrangement. Without a doubt there are always the more traditional methods of purchase to follow and very likely it does little to a change in the status quo especially when speaking of how a person operates a business.
I think that perhaps we are talking about a company that claims to have the concerns of the paintball player in mind and as such they also have to be aware that what they ask for is not cheap. Certainly there is a lot to lose but there is a lot to gain as well, lets say I want an x-mag c&c blue to deep blue fade and I see the price tag and just really can't afford to put all of that down at once. so instead I take the money I have and by an Impulse (now before everyone starts yelling and screaming I know the two are not nearly the same) because its what I can afford and it certainly will do better than a spyder for most players. Thats a sale lost because the company was not willing to take an initial down payment (lets say for the argument sake that the impulse is 700) and some further money down the road. You want to look at the risks and say its not a safe move, fine, do that, but at one point paintball did not look like a safe move for companies to be involved with.... whats that say about risk? it says that you have to take some in order to gain. its as simple as that.

Shartley, while we are talking to each other about respect, I mean no disrespect but I have noticed you like to talk down a lot to people, that as a matter of fact you can come off as almost downright condecending sometimes. Clearly you are not aware of the principles of human interaction, you might wanna look into it. Just a little constructive critisicm. thanx for your comments and thanks for your time!

[Fred]

stop whining! :rolleyes:

I switched to pump guns so that I can afford to play more than a handful of times a year. my tuition is... well, i can almost guarantee its more than most students pay.

Nothing is cooler than a full day of play for under $30!

---Fred
4th year, University of Detroit Mercy

[Schnitzel]

do you know what the legal age requrement is for donating plasma?

[shartley]

Originally posted by shade23
Shartley, while we are talking to each other about respect, I mean no disrespect but I have noticed you like to talk down a lot to people, that as a matter of fact you can come off as almost downright condecending sometimes. Clearly you are not aware of the principles of human interaction, you might wanna look into it. Just a little constructive critisicm. thanx for your comments and thanks for your time!
If you knew my background, or anything about me, you would well know that I know full well about human interaction. LOL

I am sorry, honestly, that you felt that I was talking down to you, or that I may come off almost downright (this pairing of words makes me smile though ;)) condescending. I try to be as honest as I can with folks, and NOT dummy thinks down. I often add in “no offense” and similar things because if you notice, if I DON’T add disclaimers and simply state what I think, and leave all emotion out of it, I get accused of saying, or meaning something that was just not so.

You also seem to fail to realize that Mags are NOT Spyders. Think of it like a Ford Taurus and a Ferrari… sure it would be GREAT if everyone could afford to go out and buy a Ferrari, but most people just don’t have that kind of budget. And most companies don’t go into business just to help folks out… there is something in it for them as well. They also realize that not everyone will be able to purchase their product.

Life sucks. We all can’t buy everything we want, such is life…… it is about setting priorities. Things are not always fair in that aspect, but most of us learn to deal with it. I hope that does not sound too condescending, or harsh, but now you are only whining because you can’t get what you want, when you want it, and how you want to pay for it.

[ben_JD]

Sam, does this mean you are not buying me an X-Mag?

[shartley]

Originally posted by ben_JD
Sam, does this mean you are not buying me an X-Mag?
LOL Well..... yes, that IS what it means! :D Well, unless it is the kind that can be rolled up.... my budget is a bit stretched at this point... ;)

[ben_JD]

SHartley: Well, if you need to, you can gift it to me in installments! That is, if you can ever find one to purchase in the first place.

All: In all seriousness, AGD is not in the business of lending money to people to purchase their product. There are too many other companies that are better able to do that for them (MasterCard, Visa, Mom, Dad, etc.). The cost of chasing you down to drag the next payment out of your pocket is not worth it to AGD or MOST manufacturers of ANY product, especially when they have a system of dealers in place.

The point of sale is where you need to ask for special financing, lay-away or discounts. This is your local store. My local store (Paintball and More in Euless, Tx - (817) 282-3636) is more than happy to start a lay-away plan for its customers and it excepts Visa and Mastercard. There are a lot of ways that you can avoid dropping the needed amount of cold, hard cash on an X-Mag; one of them, however, is not to ask AGD to "tote the note".

[Xerces]

i too hvae been wondering what i was going to do with all my plasma jsut lying around the house. whats age req.?

[shade23]

Well I've certainly gained a little more of the companies point of view from posting this thread and it has given me a lot to chew on in terms of why such a venture is not feasible.
As to the matter of Mags not being spyders, thats very true, which is why they're so great in the first place! :)

Shartley,
Not that it matters but I fail to see exactly where I am "whining" by discussing the possiblity of doing something like this and arguing my viewpoint. Maybe you've reached a level of disgust with the subject or possibly with my reasons for seeing things as I do but I don't remember saying anything like "the X-mag is priced too high" a blanket statement which is not true, I think its worth every penny and then some (especially looking at the prices of the it's contemporaries, angels, certain 'cockers and the like).
My guess is, that your probably right, I'll probably have to shut up, pony up the money for the X-mag and purchase it the same way everyone else has/is/will. But I still think that the ideas is not without merit.

[logamus]

hey ben_JD, where in euless is that store?

[ben_JD]

On Pipeline Road just East of Brown Trail. Call them for directions, but they are in a strip-mall on the South side of the road immediately next to a Dominos Pizza delivery joint. Their phone number is 817-282-3636.

[nuclear zombie]

you should have enough time to save for an x-mag considering that they are sold out until at least may .

Or get a credit card buy the x-mag then cut the card up .

good luck , I won't get be getting one either, until they create a z-grip one .

later

[logamus]

thanks ben, thats right next to my moms house so i shall plan a trip by there tomorrow.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by shade23
Hey just a thought here,
I am a huge mag fan (who isn't?), I own an automag RT with LX , Blade intelliframe, and an Evolution 2. what I want now is an x-mag but I am on a budget, why doesn't AGD have a payment plan for people like us, I am sure I am not the only one and I AM DYING TO GET MY HANDS ON AN X-MAG!!!!

What you have is a bad case of the WANTS and it can be a very dangerous thing if you use credit unwisely. Look at your setup! There is NOTHING wrong with what you have. Enjoy the game don't work yourself into credit problems. This whole idea of spending tons of money on paintball and shooting a couple of cases in a day of play really shocks me. There is nothing wrong with having nice toys (when you die after all the money doesn't come with you) but you have to know your limit. You are just going to want Tom's next creation next year anyway!

[aaron_mag]

Sorry for the double post but I have to add something else. An AGD payment plan would be an incredibly stupid business move. Payment plans are all about risk and return. House payment plans typically have a long amortization period and lower interest rate because they have a long economic life and are reasonably strong collateral. On the other hand credit cards (since there is basically no collateral) have a very high interest rate.

With a marker you are talking about short economic life (since we want something new soon after we buy it) and poor collateral. For risk and return AGD or a third party would have to put a pretty hefty rate on it and amortize the loan it quickly. These two factors would probably price those who needed the payment plan out of the market (basically you couldn't afford the monthly payments needed to make it worth AGD's time).

[Kevmag]

I'd be very careful with credit cards esp. the college students out there. It is way too easy to rack up large balances. One card often grows to a second card, to a third and so on. After a few months of "free" spending, you end up with a whole lot of nothing and a huge balance.

I managed to rack up around $5k in credit card debt that took 4 yrs after I graduated to pay off. Think of the interest I paid on this balance over the yrs. Think of the opportunity costs of having this debt (delayed me buying a house for a year). The sad thing is after all that spending I had very little to show for it (rounds of drinks, eating out, toys I had to have that I no longer used, ect...).

I didn't write this post to lecture to anyone, I just thought I'd share this personal story in hopes it may save someone some bucks down the road.