weight-saving mod?

[Schnitzel]

as some of you may know, a warped E-mag can weigh quite a bit. i'm not saying i cant handle one, but it does make it easier to manuever with a lighter marker. heck, a warped anything adds more weight, but a warped ULE is certainly lighter than a stock warped emag.;)

anyways, back to the piont. i have seen a lot of mods on this bboard, and i have come to see/hear a bit more about weight lately. it may just be me noticing it bacuse of the fact that i'm so concerned with it.

not once have i heard of anybody saying anything about the warp plate. i know it's aluminum, but i see a place where weight can be saved. think it's a good idea? when i originally thought of it, i was just going to draw one giant slot, but then i realized the stresses exerted on the plate, so i kept some of it's structural integrity. any suggestions? sorry about the 5 min Paint job...

[Havoc_online]

If you were to cut the wieght of the warp plate by cutting holes into it, it would not be able to transfer vibrations as well as a soild plate. It may impair the ability to run your warp of the vib. sensor.

[Gitaroo Man]

then you could intelli feed it

[Schnitzel]

i have it linked.

[nerobro]

Taht would do some bad things to the structural integrity of the mount plate... there's a lot of weight on that plate..

The better place to save weight weould be on the warp itself. It's weight comes from tom over... well properly engineering the peice so no paintball could dream of hurting it.

Now if weights your concern... attacking that shell on the warp would save you a LOT of weight. Put a fabric cover over the open holes... and that will even keep out the paint that hits it. You can clear out MOST of the plastic.

Hmm.... so long as tournaments wouldn't call it padding.. you could get away with gutting the shell of the revvy/halo, especially on the side shielded by the gun. (you could even increse the size of the hopper a little that way..)

[petefol]

get a slug body and xvalve when it comes out.

[nerobro]

I can't imagine the slug being lighter than a normal e-mag body.. seeing that it's 1/4 inch thinck. and aluminum is only on the order of 1/2 the weight of steel. so that reccomendation isn't going to help much....

As for the xvalve... for the moment, purchasing an xvalve without an extreme is imposiable.... again something that really can't be done.

And what if the gun in question isn't a necessarily an e-mag? did you know a large percentage of the warps spend their lives on angels? (and many other guns.. check out paintchecks matrix if you need another example) The guys idea is solid.. but if I were to cut up the bracket.. I'd make a new one with welded endplates on it or something.. a structurally better design. (though from a production standpoint financially imposiable) I dunno.. for stuff to be done at home... Well break out the dremmel, the cutting disks, and the sewing machine and hack up your hopper and warp.

[TheJester]

i wouldn't bother cutting it, i the plate itself doesn't weigh that much, you'll end up saving like an oz or 2, is that really saving weight? you're better off just putting 2 less paintballs in your hopper in that case, i think if you're gonna cut weight, cut it in the warp itself, not the plate. but how balanced is your gun? i know mine weighs close to 15-20 lbs fully loaded, no joke, just have i have some trouble holding it out at arms length steadly w/ 1 hand, but it's balanced right on the frame, so it doesn't feel as heavy, so you may want to play w/ drop forward options to make it more balanced, cause just for example, which seems heavier, handing a baseball bat out form it's end, or handing it out holding it in the center?, so weight may not be your issue, balance may, but just a suggestion

[nerobro]

... I didn't have a 12lb gun when I had a pvi maxflow, ss barrel, and a loaded revvy on top of the gun. (not to mention an all brass front end and a stab on there too) What the heck is on that gun to get it to 20lbs? (or might I suggest you go weigh it...)

[RobAGD]

Just a note :

Emag / warp Halo full of paint with Flatline 68/4500, PMI Barrel, Drop and Flatline sleeve = 10.5lbs

-Robert

[magnj]

lol 20lbs, what DO you have on there? I havent weighed mine but Im sure its not light

[cphilip]

Sounds about right there Rob. I have a picture here somewhere showing a ULE Faded Emag with warp and revy and a 68/3000, Macroline and fittings, almost a hopper full of paint, a 12 inch Freak barrel on it with 2500 psi of air in the tank weighing in at 9.5 pounds. Sitting on the digital scales where you can see the read out too. 20 pounds? I think not!

[ah137]

Originally posted by nerobro
I can't imagine the slug being lighter than a normal e-mag body.. seeing that it's 1/4 inch thinck. and aluminum is only on the order of 1/2 the weight of steel. so that reccomendation isn't going to help much....


Oh course you would mill it first.

Did you see the specs on the FSE-LX slug body?

""Well I got a chance to weigh the body's
this morning , the result's
1-Black powder coat Warp right=8.5 oz
2-Polished Vert W/NW adapter= 8.0 oz
3-Slug W/NW feed neck and ball detent=4.5 oz
That suprised even me, I did'nt expect
quite that big a difference.

Rick

""
Drop four ounces there and another 3.6 with a ule rail thats quite a bit, even drop a few more with the ule grip.

Later Hills

[Schnitzel]

Sounds about right there Rob. I have a picture here somewhere showing a ULE Faded Emag with warp and revy and a 68/3000, Macroline and fittings, almost a hopper full of paint, a 12 inch Freak barrel on it with 2500 psi of air in the tank weighing in at 9.5 pounds.

just weighed mine...

genuine ULE with stock barrel: 3lbs, 1 oz
without barrel: 2 lbs, 12 oz

ULE with: SS line, fittings, warp +hose, 12V revvy, KAPP DZIII, PMI 68/4500 - 8 lbs, 9 oz

[rikkter]

hm i was wondering, speaking of the warp rail, i noticed the rails on the PTP are a lot thinner then the ones that come with the AGD's. what would happen if AGD made it thinner like the PTPs? only because my screws barely go in the intelliframe, only like 1/8 of an inch is in the gun, which i'm worrying about stripping.
external vibration+DZ3=lot of screwtakage..

?

[Raptor3359]

u could always get longer screws.

[yeahthatsme]

get a ule rail, milled down(milled to the same size as the regular body) and an xvalve(might have to wait for a week or 2 on the x valve though) and you will have a significantly lighter gun.

[Schnitzel]

i have intended to get the X-valve since it was announced.

it's nice to hear your suggestions about other things i can do to save weight, but i'd like hear what you all think about the plate.

thanks.

[rbreding]

One of the things that I did to lessen the weight of mine was get rid of those 9V batteries and run the revvy and warp off the internal EMAG battery. If you have the 12V warp mod then you are running with 4 9V batteries!!!.


LX Emag
Warp
Revvy
DZ2
Nitro Duck 68/4500 adjustable
Freak 12"

9lb 6oz

[TheJester]

ok ok ok guys, not need to pick on me, notice i did give a range there, but it's not light, and i was saying fully loaded, no i haven't weighed it, i'll get around to it at some point, but i can hold a 15 lb weight out at arms length w/ not much difficulty, and i have a littler harder time w/ my gun, maybe that's cause my gun is just a little more bulky though, but she's no feather weight, and my bro always *****es how heavy it is, but i like the weight of mine

[cris8762]

ok guys....time to hit the gym.......:rolleyes: :p

[FESTUS33]

Originally posted by nerobro
I can't imagine the slug being lighter than a normal e-mag body.. seeing that it's 1/4 inch thinck. and aluminum is only on the order of 1/2 the weight of steel. so that reccomendation isn't going to help much....

As for the xvalve... for the moment, purchasing an xvalve without an extreme is imposiable.... again something that really can't be done.

And what if the gun in question isn't a necessarily an e-mag? did you know a large percentage of the warps spend their lives on angels? (and many other guns.. check out paintchecks matrix if you need another example) The guys idea is solid.. but if I were to cut up the bracket.. I'd make a new one with welded endplates on it or something.. a structurally better design. (though from a production standpoint financially imposiable) I dunno.. for stuff to be done at home... Well break out the dremmel, the cutting disks, and the sewing machine and hack up your hopper and warp.

My machined slug weigh's in at 4.5oz, My vert E-Mag body
weigh's in at 8.0oz, and my Warp right body come's in at
8.5oz. That's 3.5 to 4.0 ounces difference, believe me
you can feel it.
Rick:eek:

[FutureMagOwner]

yeah when the package came in with the slug(chrismas present so i cant measure it) it was so light i thought it was empty yet my current mag body is quite heavy

[nerobro]

Originally posted by FESTUS33


My machined slug weigh's in at 4.5oz, My vert E-Mag body
weigh's in at 8.0oz, and my Warp right body come's in at
8.5oz. That's 3.5 to 4.0 ounces difference, believe me
you can feel it.
Rick:eek:

*ahem* MACHINED. what was the weight before?

[bofh]

Originally posted by nerobro


*ahem* MACHINED. what was the weight before?

Doesn't matter what is was before. Or did you miss the entire point of the sluggo?

The sluggo *has* to have some machine work done to it to be usable. You have to tap the detent, and you have to mill the sluggo body down so the detent can fit.

An unmachined Sluggo is an not a viable body.

Unless you want to argue, that you don't need a detent. And if you like to take that route, send me a postcard from your world, Because I'd like to see what color the sky is.

[magmonkey]

if you want to to see what will happen I will build a slotted warp bracket and weigh it against my factory one to see what can be saved on weight without taking enough metal off so that it folds in half

gliney the mag monkey

[nerobro]

BOFH that hurts. if you considder drilling and tapping a hold machine work.. I dunno what to say. that's hand tool work ;-)

You have a small point. But keep in mind judghing by a modified sluggo you're not going to get a good idea of what they weigh. there is no "standard" milling or setup for the slug. while his may weigh 4.5oz, the next guy could have only removed enough to tap the detent. and the next guy could have the thing as thin as the aluminum prototype bodies. You just don't know. so it's not a good yardstick. Using other than the stock weight is like talking about the rof I can shoot a gun. it means nothing about what the next guy can do

As from what world? Hopefully not yours seeing the heat i got from that letter. *douses the flamer with water*

[bofh]

Originally posted by nerobro
I can't imagine the slug being lighter than a normal e-mag body.. seeing that it's 1/4 inch thinck. and aluminum is only on the order of 1/2 the weight of steel. so that reccomendation isn't going to help much....

My basic point is, No sluggo should get used out straight of the box, because they are *designed* to be worked on first. The basic assumpution of yours that it will remain 1/4 thick is fundementaly flawed.

FESTUS33's sluggo is a perfect example of this. Minimal, easy milling resulting in a 3.5 to 4.0 oz weight saving. Will other people have more wieght? Sure, will some have less? Sure. You've seen the pictures of FESTUS33's sluggo. And now you know how much it wieghs. Since his is the first functional Sluggo in the wild, it is the baseline.


Originally posted by nerobro
BOFH that hurts. if you considder drilling and tapping a hold machine work.. I dunno what to say. that's hand tool work ;-)

You must have also missed where I said you have to mill the sluggo body down for the detent to fit.

Sure, I will do mine with a hand tool, but most people will want it to look good, so they might use a machine to thin the sluggo body so the detent can actually touch the paintball and "detent."

As for the "color of your sky," that's premptive, for the "I don't need no stinking Detents" defense. Read the whole last paragraph, slowly this time.

[Schnitzel]

man, this always happens.

[TRUCKER VOICE]Man, i hate it when they hijack my rig!(thread)[/TRUCKER VOICE]

:rolleyes:

[shadow462]

Since we're talking ounces, and even tenths of ounces, here, it would be nice to get more actual numbers (thanks to festus for starting the trend). EXACTLY how much do each of the items we're talking about weigh? Anyone who has a digital scale (I won't ask why) please contribute what you can. We're specifically talking about warp options, so weights of the warp plate and body would be nice. I personally would like the numbers on more mag components. It would be nice to know exactly where you can save weight, without busting out the dremel. For example, someone said their ULEmag weighs 2 pounds, 12 ounces. I believe the Xmag is 2.6, roughly 2 pounds, 9 ounces (correct me if I'm wrong here). By that math, switching out the emag valve for the Xvalve (often touted as 3 ounces lighter than a retro) in the ULEmag would get you to the same weight as an Xmag, no? Please contribute weights on EVERY mag component you can, emag, rt, auto, or mini. Aftermarket parts would be of great help as well (vertical adapters, drops, sight rails, even barrels). I'm one of the people who is interested in minimizing weight in my setup, and this could be a great resource for everyone who is similarly inclined. Thanks in advance for everyone who helps out!

[nerobro]

Your first point I'll concede... Heck I conceded it. myself. Remember "you have a small point"

Sure his milling looks simple. And being the first, it's kinda neat. But we have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER what a typical body will be like. Just for that very reason. it's a sample dataset of one.

As for the installing of the detent. with no more than a drillpress and a vice you can get that detent in there as accurate as you care to have it. (a common tool, versus a mill which is quite uncommon) i'm expecting to see a lot of these bodys out tehre with merely a deten installed, and MAYBE anno. Have you seen how many cockers are out there with just the original anno on the uncut parts and bare alumnum elsewhere? How about bare aluminum bodys period. or bodys that were just annoed. it's nice to think the typical sluggo will be "properly" milled... but who knows.

At this point, neither I or you knows that answer. And why I more or less disqualified the sluggo as an option.

I did read your last paragraph carefully. And turned it around, hinting that you lived in hades. (which more or less makes us neighbors... reality ain't much different)

Back to the original point.... How to make the emag lighter.

"back in the day" And I'm talking 99 here. I saw people running around wiht RT's... with all sorts of parts hacked off the gun. The rail was chopped and shortened, the foregrip was removed, and the excess length of rail was removed up there. The body rail appeared to be narrowed, and the body was chopped as short as feasable....

You could pull many of those tricks on an emag. cut off hte lump off the back of the frame (given you have a mill to work with) shorten the body.. you can take a bit off both ends. Use an xvalve. (those just became available today) There's just a whole lot of excess on an emag.. and you can trim at will. don't mess with the rail between the body and the frame. Make sure the valve can seat in the body. and all the barrel o-rings are covered by body. Anything beyond that.. could be conssiddered excess weight.

*looks at the ulemag frame* Or do the AGD thing and make it hollow ;-)

I was concentrating on the warp, because it's a cheapish part to replace in comparison to a whole emag if you screw up. (same goes for loader halfs... and I kinda discount gun weight on a whole... other than that freaking weight from the warp hanging off to the side.. anything to make that lighter would make me a happy camper)

[Schnitzel]

By that math, switching out the emag valve for the Xvalve (often touted as 3 ounces lighter than a retro) in the ULEmag would get you to the same weight as an Xmag, no?

i have infact handled tom's CNC x-mag, it seems like it should be light, but it's a different story when you handle it.

i actually got a chance to weigh both Tom's CnC amd my ULE, both with practically identical setups...and it was very interesting. with different weight accounted and counter-accounted for, they weighed the exact same. i really think it surprised Tom, he was very taken aback, and so that's why i dont go blaring it over the front page.