Oh goody a new Kingman gun!

[Load SM5]

I was flipping through the latest APG and noticed Kingman has a new gun out called the Electra. One question....do they think we are complete tools? The spyder is a good enough marker but does changing the way it cocks, adding a site rail or bottomline and putting a sear tripping e-frame on it make it a new and revolutionary marker? They also included a fold out guide, in APG, to all of Kingman's guns and I counted 20 not including the Electra or the Hammer pumps. So a grand total of 21 variations of the same thing.

And someone please fill me in on what JAVA is? They're stamping that on other companie's products and selling it as something new and I have no clue what it is other that a slang term for coffee.

Am I missing something?

[darklord]

JAVA is Kingman's way of saying "look at the snazzy different colors!", pretty much. For example, the "java" edition of the Shutter is either purple or black, instead of the standard red and blue. Kingman probably comes out with such a variety since spyders are generally entry-level markers, and newbies see all the different "variations" and thikn "Gee there are so many options to choose from, I want to be unique" or something. Most newbs don't know how to upgrade when they first get into the sport, maybe other than a barrel, so all these variations offer newbs a wide selection of markers to choose from.

I really don't get why Kingman does it either...maybe it's cheap or at little cost for them, but for me it just seems like they're nurturing the "newb marker" aspect of their company.

[magman007]

java is their not so custom custom line of stuff. Compare it to the m class of bmw's. but the bmw's are custom...


the java is usually a special color or something like that

[cphilip]

Well they sure are very good at marketing stuff thats for sure. I mean you change a little here put a new color out and call it a whole new marker and guess what? IT SELLS! Heck I don't blame them. If it works it works. :rolleyes: :(

[EsPo]

i cant find a difference between any of there recent line of guns, e99 em1 ect ect.. they all seem like the exact same thing..

[snakestang]

Originally posted by cphilip
Well they sure are very good at marketing stuff thats for sure. I mean you change a little here put a new color out and call it a whole new marker and guess what? IT SELLS! Heck I don't blame them. If it works it works. :rolleyes: :(

I could not agree more! If AGD would do the same thing it would be do nothing but increase sales. I can say that at least Kingmans product is reasonably reliable and economical.

It could be compared to new cars. Every time someone puts a new badge or stereo in a previous model you get a huge add campaign. Whatever helps to sell.

[yeahthatsme]

i cant find a difference between any of there recent line of guns, e99 em1 ect ect..

dude the em1 is fully electric, its not just a sear tripper like the e-99 and such.


the new marker looks nice though, i like the milling and stuff.

[mag-hatter]

spyders are simi auto talons with electro frames.

[mykroft]

The EM1 is not related to the rest of Kingman's line. It's really a variant on the Bushmaster/Intimidator/Impulse type stacked tube Electro-pneumatic.

Everything else they make are stacked-tube blowbacks, with some electrinic sear grips available.

OK stuff, but not stellar, and there are much better options in the blowback market, like PMI Pirahna's, Mokal Fokus's and AM Sentinels.

[Ov3rmind]

I really wish Kingman hadn't abondoned the EM1. I think it had some potential if people had just given it a chance and Kingman let the marker evolve. However, I'm sick of seeing all the stacked tube blow backs they keep pumping out.

[darklord]

Kingman didn't abandon the EM1...they stopped producing it and came out with the EM1 modify, which had a $500-600 price tag. People thought "hey, why spend that much on a spyder when I can get a better marker for the same price?", and thus, Kingmand didn't abandon it, but the market for paintball guns did.

[Kevmaster]

whoa! I havnt heard about a new kingman marker...for a week or so!! Man, those Kingman guys must be slacking off over there ;)

[xmetal2001]

Originally posted by snakestang


I could not agree more! If AGD would do the same thing it would be do nothing but increase sales.

If AGD did that i'd be forced to find new forums...

[wimag]

yeah its too bad they have a huge assortment of markers. Too bad they have mass marketing to sell all theose markers. The flashy ads, bombardment of media will only draw more (NEW) people into this sport. If the sport relied on AGD, WDP, and WGP alone for marketing do you actually think there would be 7,000,000 people playing now??

Hey they make a decent marker, i started on one way back when. Why?? Becasue there marketing drew me in, and my Spyder still works.
Before crapping on or making fun on their company keep in mind not every interested player is gonna shell out $1000+ for a SFL.

[FutureMagOwner]

id only buy an electra if it had carmen electra annodized naked in 2 tone graphic color or whatever weird buzz words they use now to try and say they look cool

:D

[billmi]

I think Kingman has a script written in FORTH (only because it's an outdated obscure language, that some cool people still use)on a Timex Sinclair that randombly combines various bolt on accessories and anodizing colors, then picks a name from a list for the new model each month.

Every time they design one new accessory (like a new electronic grip with a different data display) the number of gun combinations that the program can generate increases geometrically.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Kevmaster]

bill your last two posts made my day....you are amazing!!

[FordPrefect]

Originally posted by Load SM5
I counted 20 not including the Electra or the Hammer pumps. So a grand total of 21 variations of the same thing.


Really? Last time I saw a Kingman fold-out ad, I counted and it was somewhere around 12. That was maybe 3 months ago.

[halB]

guy had one at the field on sunday, looked purdy and shot pretty well. nice gun is all i have to say.

btw, sear tripping electros are revolutionary, kingmann was the first to give an electro trigger to a price everyone could afford

[halB]

Originally posted by mag-hatter
spyders are simi auto talons with electro frames.

technically, that would be an autococker with f5 conversion, eblade, raceframe, or whatever the hell else is out there.

[Load SM5]

Originally posted by FordPrefect


Really? Last time I saw a Kingman fold-out ad, I counted and it was somewhere around 12. That was maybe 3 months ago.

8 new guns in 3 months! Wow, they're cranking them out. Tom you slacker what's wrong with you? ;)

[thevilduk]

ya i hate kingman. The products suck, i have a spyder and i am ashamed of it. To think that the only reason they sell them for 70 dollars (the compact) is because they are made in some shop by (probly) underpaid communist people in china. Unlike the good old AGD guns. Made by North Americans who take pride in their work, and research.

[adam shannon]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by billmi
[B]I think Kingman has a script written in FORTH (only because it's an outdated obscure language, that some cool people still use)on a Timex Sinclair that randombly combines various bolt on accessories and anodizing colors, then picks a name from a list for the new model each month.

Every time they design one new accessory (like a new electronic grip with a different data display) the number of gun combinations that the program can generate increases geometrically.

that sounds like the same program stephen king uses to pump out new books.

[FooTemps]

Sheesh... I wonder how many more markers they will come out with in the next 4 months... 10? 20? 1376866537348563?

with Kingman you don't really know how far they'll go... It's kinda like they're beating a dead horse.

[billmi]

Originally posted by halB

btw, sear tripping electros are revolutionary, kingmann was the first to give an electro trigger to a price everyone could afford

Actually it was the Black Dragon that was first to market it in that price bracket.

Interestingly, a well known company in paintball filed a patent application on both using a solenoid, and using a pneumatic ram to trip a sear. They traded that patent application (which is, I believe still pending) to a company that was about to release a product that would be covered by the patent. The company that owns the patent application now will be in a very strong position if/when the patent issues, because it would cover almost all of the solenoid tripped guns out there on the market today.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[MantisMag]

mmmmmm carmen electra. i mean ummm. what were we talking about again? :confused:

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

Its not only kingman who does the change a little bit and call it a new marker but all manufactures do this but not at the high rate and which kingman does once a week or so. Take AGD for example great company they have what 6 markers, classic, mini, retro, emag, x mag and sydarm. But if you look at them all they are all basically the same thing you have a single tupe valve and bolt setup. But for every step up the marker gets better and better something new and improved is added (sounds like kingman but only better) the same can be said about wgp or wdp. I think kingman would get alot more business if they used the AGD approach get there name out of the newb line of markers and make more competitive one. I mean tippmann has equal sales and the 98 custom hasnt changed in years.

Also halb if you are compareing a electro cocker to a talon with a electro grip you are a complete and utter moron. I dont mean to flame but you cant say that you go get a elcetro talon and ill go get a eorracle and will see who wins. Saying what you said is just not being realistic

[RTMAGBOY13]

hahhaha this gun will just be the same as all other lame spyder guns there goin down the drain so they just try to throw out more guns so poeple will buy them........because everyone is into airgun designs, smart parts, and wdp

[billmi]

Originally posted by RTMAGBOY13
hahhaha this gun will just be the same as all other lame spyder guns there goin down the drain so they just try to throw out more guns so poeple will buy them........because everyone is into airgun designs, smart parts, and wdp

I would be very surprised if AGD, Smart Parts and WDP combined (not counting the Tippmanns that WDP distributes in Europe) come close to the total number of paintguns that Kingman sells every year.

Brass Eagle's annual report said that last year they sold just short of 1 million paintguns.

Neither of these companies may be on the high end, but there are a LOT more customers out there looking to buy low cost paintguns.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[magman007]

Originally posted by SpongeBobSquarePants
Also halb if you are compareing a electro cocker to a talon with a electro grip you are a complete and utter . morone


so he has a bad italian name?????:)

[Wheelman]

All I know is that a turd is still a turd no matter what it looks like after it hits the wall

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

magman so i cant spell so sue me but i think i got my point across:D

[paint magnet]

Especially when you see them advertise the guns right beside each other...

Like the Esprit and Imagine, they change the name and all one has that the other doesn't is a gas though foregrip...
That would be like calling a backbottle Automag and a bottomline Automag a mag and a supermag or something...

Anyway Carmen Electra is hot :D

[halB]

more spyders, more choices so you get all that you want and nothing you dont. i know people who get the espirit and slap on a lotta custom stuff, i know people who dont care and get the imagine.

[billmi]

Originally posted by paint magnet
Like the Esprit and Imagine, they change the name and all one has that the other doesn't is a gas though foregrip...
That would be like calling a backbottle Automag and a bottomline Automag a mag and a supermag or something...


Haha....
Yeah, that would be like calling a powerfed, backbottle Automag an Automag, and calling a vertical bottle powerfed Automag with some cosmetic cuts in the body a Minimag (even though it's actually bigger). Oh.... Wait....


See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[halB]

why u getting freaked out bout the names? its pretty simple. instead of saying electronic spyder without a foregrip or drop forward they just say espiriti. its jsut a simple way of not having to say so much

[Dern]

Why are so many people dissing on low level guns like Piranhas and Spyders etc. They are perfectly good guns! They are what get probably 90% of people into the sport. I started playing pball a year ago using a Piranha. I didn't want to fork out 400 dollars for a new gun that I may never use again if I decided I didn't like ths sport. Besides, there are plenty of people that upgrade their piranhas and spyders a whole lot for only like 200-300 total including the gun price, and they work pretty damn well. People don't diss on pump guns but they do diss on low end semis, I don't get it. All that crap about higher priced guns being more accurate and longer ranged is stupid.

Kingman and PMI and all other clone guns are what carry this sport. They are the peons of the medieval system.

[magman007]

Originally posted by halB
espiriti.


ah, another italian?


sorry, it is funny to me!

[halB]

Originally posted by Dern
Why are so many people dissing on low level guns like Piranhas and Spyders etc. They are perfectly good guns! They are what get probably 90% of people into the sport. I started playing pball a year ago using a Piranha. I didn't want to fork out 400 dollars for a new gun that I may never use again if I decided I didn't like ths sport. Besides, there are plenty of people that upgrade their piranhas and spyders a whole lot for only like 200-300 total including the gun price, and they work pretty damn well. People don't diss on pump guns but they do diss on low end semis, I don't get it. All that crap about higher priced guns being more accurate and longer ranged is stupid.

Kingman and PMI and all other clone guns are what carry this sport. They are the peons of the medieval system.

damn straight, you wouldnt believe what you can do with these guns. after im done, my things gonna be at 200 psi, unchoppable, witha roller sear trigger system (cause me no likey e frames)

[845]

http://kingmanusa.com/images/index_btm/electra/main_r1_c1.jpg


I think this one looks pretty cool. If they have another Spyder/free entrance fee promotion at the IAO I will probably buy this one. Unless they come out with a newer cooler looking one by the IAO (more than likely they will come out with 10 cooler looking ones). Atleast they are getting better looking. They no longer have that ugly Emag poser grip frame the AMG had.

[halB]

just read this part

Also halb if you are compareing a electro cocker to a talon with a electro grip you are a complete and utter moron. I dont mean to flame but you cant say that you go get a elcetro talon and ill go get a eorracle and will see who wins. Saying what you said is just not being realistic

spongebob, your a moron. i wasnt comparing performance, a guy said a spyder with an e frame was like a talon with an electronic trigger. well, if you think justa bit youll notice that a talon is a pump, therefore closedbolt gun. therefore, if it was electronic, it would be a shocker or a cocker with an e kit on it.

dummy

[Ov3rmind]

well, if you think justa bit youll notice that a talon is a pump, therefore closedbolt gun. therefore, if it was electronic, it would be a shocker or a cocker with an e kit on it.
Wow, so Mags equal Spyders, and they both equal Angels, which also equal those Stingrays! After all, they're all open bolt.:rolleyes: Shockers, Cockers, and Talons actually operate more differently than people think (of course, that doesn't matter when people are spewing insults).

[Dern]

This is the kinda thread that that one guy was complaining about in his thread called "what I think of these forums" or something like that. It starts as good arguable topic and then the flaming begins and turns it into the who is best war. Stop calling each other morons and dumbasses etc. It goes no where!

[WARPED1]

A guy at my field had just bought an E-99,that thing works great for a blowback electrogrip sear tripper.

[halB]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind

Wow, so Mags equal Spyders, and they both equal Angels, which also equal those Stingrays! After all, they're all open bolt.:rolleyes: Shockers, Cockers, and Talons actually operate more differently than people think (of course, that doesn't matter when people are spewing insults).

fine, you try to make a talon electropneumatic open bolt. im just saying, considering the need of dual solenoids and other crap, itd be more similar to cockers and shockers than spyders.

[Carpecerevisi]

You know what, no one should be allowed to say anything bad about electrospyders until they have gone out and actually played with them. I bought and sold an e-99 on CO2 and my friend got an Imagine on a 68/3k, I've used both guns on the field while my friggin cocker was getting a new cocking arm machined, and I must say those little things rip. For 180 bucks we got a V-force mask, a 12 oz CO2, a hopper, and a gun that has a trigger pull akin to a mouse click, 12 inch accuracy at 15 yards, and the capability of a semi auto bps of 13. Add on a revy 12v and a PMI PE 68/3k, and those little mothers will keep up with any gun out there. They are just good guns and they give you a huge selection of colors, styles, milling, asa setups, and price ranges. I for one applaud Kingman on a great line of markers.


* $0.02 deposited * :)

[joeyjoe367]

Carpecerevisi, I too, have had a bit of experience with the e-spyders.

Yes, they can put out the paint, and yes they're great for the price, but simply put: They feel cheap. The electronic trigger doesn't help at all either. When I'm shooting one of those things, I can definatly put out a decent amount of paint, but I feel like I'm using a squirt gun. Not to mention the relativly large mass of both the bolt and hammer reciprocating back and forth makes the gun feel like it's going to rattle apart.


I played with a spyder/spyder clone for 4 years, and after switching to a 'mag, I don't think I could ever go back. No blowbacks for this man.

[nerobro]

I don't get the whole "sear tripper" thing. Just to make a point.. the emag is "just a sear tripper"

The guns work REALLY well. They don't break untill you start trying to put parts of questionable mfg on them.

while you might argue that electronic guns are better.. electrocockers, matricies, emags, are all the same to the ball as their mechanical counterparts.

the matrix just has it's 3way replaced with a solinoid driven 3 way.

Electrocockers... same deal. and a SPYDER TYPE sear tripper mechinism in the gripframe.

Heck the emag is just a mag with a big electromagnent (solinoid) to trip it.

another note... if em1's were so good, bad company would be shooting them instead of AMG's.... Everyone (AO is guilty of this as well.. take a look at yeathatsme's post) seems to think there's this huge difference between a seartripper than what they phrase as a "true" electrogun.

An electrogun of that type only has an advange in the mind of the user. I'm still yet to have anyone bring up a good arguement for why a "true" electro is any better than a sear tripper.