Springload Trigger

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

I was wondering what the logistics would be of including a spring in front of the trigger so it pushes against the sear pin with an additional 1lb of pressure or some figure to that nature. If the trigger pull is 3lbs (I think, I'm recalling this value off the top of my head) wouldn't this reduce it to 2lbs without risking issues with the gun going off by simple movement or rendering the safety inoperable? It would be set up similar to a trigger stop but actually push as well, which means if the marker was degassed, the trigger would be held against the frame instead of freely moving. I chose 1lb to allow the marker to be held or shook in any way and not be a safety risk through misfire and such. I have not even started building this modification, what would be the logistics of it(and legalities of it, including tournament rules) as it seems like a good aid for those people who are not ready to move into the electronic market, and doesn't seem to give an unfair advantage that someone using a solenoid-activated trigger doesn't already have. Mr. Kaye, the input of you or one of your techs would greatly be appreciate as you have always given the most accurate information (which makes sense since it is your product) but also factor in rules, safety, and other key issues that others might not take into consideration. My plans for this would be to go on an RT valve so there would be more push back to counteract the additional resistance. Thank you.

[TheTramp]

I think it would reduce the effectiveness of the Retro. One of the main points of the Retro valve is to return the trigger rod/sear/trigger to it's cocked position with more force (thus faster) than the pull. Wouldn't putting a spring in there increase the force nessasary to return the sear/rod thus slowing down the return?

Sounds like it would be defeting the whole idea to me. The pull might be easier but the reactivity would be reduced by the same amount.

As far as rules, I can't see any reasons why this would break any of them as it would still be one pull = one shot.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

I definitely kept the reduced trigger return in consideration which is why this setup would not be too effective for non-RT valves. But if 5lbs is pushing back, it seems reducing that to 4lbs isn't a huge deal, it would then be 2lbs one way, 4lbs push back, which is twice the response of the Level 7 valve (again, if my numbers are off please correct me, I am recalling them off the top of my head). I think the enhanced ease of pulling would be worth far more than the split second less time in return, as you would get a much higher rate of BPS due to an easier pull but it would still be extremely hard to outrun the trigger reset. Snapshooting, getting that first ball off before your opponent does, is the difference between winning and losing. Again, I am only theorizing this so I haven't tried it but wanted to get opinions and safety concerns before I do, as people may have tried something similar to this already and failed results prevented it from being a mainstream upgrade.
Great point though, something I didn't address originally. Any further input from yourself or others would be valued.

[TheTramp]

For a lot of people I think you'd be correct. The reduction in pull would outweight the reduction in return.

I'm one of those people (and there are a lot of us) who jacks his input way up to get the absolute maximum reactivity before uncontrolable run-away ("sweet-spotting")sets in. Anything that would reduce the reactivity would be unwelcome to me. Of course, the simple way for me to avoid the problem is to not do the mod :) .

Like I said, I think a bunch people would really enjoy a lighter trigger on the Mag. I personaly am just not willing to give up that last little oomph on the return.

As far as how to build the mod....you're on your own. I have no idea :D .

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

I use a Crossfire preset so my pressures are limited. $400 plus for a tank/regulator I can get for $200 that works just as well never made sense to me. If I ever end up doing it I'll go from there, but there's no way I'd try it until I got a Retro in the gun. That spring would suck for the regular valve, probably wouldn't even work.
If I do this, It'll be a game of finding the right feel. Could even build it like the Lvl10, with changeable springs to adjust the reactivity, pull, and feel. I hope AGD doesn't steal this one if it actually works. If they do, I better get an XMag and Flatline 4500 for it if it becomes part of the Intelliframe Version 2 :D
In regards to building it, I got an idea that might actually work real well. I'd have to have someone with metal-working equipment do it to my specs though, it would involve welding and stuff. Maybe a hardware store or something. It would be solid, easily adjustable, and even removable without any significant effort if my idea works as I got it thought out right now. Whether it would really work is another issue entirely.
I'll keep you informed of any progress I make once I know the safety and logistics and if there really are benefits to it. We'll see.

[IcantBelieveit]

well on the autmag triggers there is what we like to call the "sweet-spot" soo why not build an adjustable trigger stop. That way you would not spend that extra clearance for nothing, and in a sense you would get a shorter trigger pull and a faster trigger return. just correct me if i am wrong, but that just seem logical to me

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

A trigger stop is something I've been thinking about too. I know there's that sweet spot but it still takes 3lbs of pull. If the spring is pushing, it should be pushed to right before the sweet spot, the point right where it shoots. I might be wrong as well though. Does anyone know any site that gives good info about how to install a trigger stop? My friend tried to modify his trigger and totally messed it up so I'm not about to ask him.

[TheTramp]

The problem with installing a trigger stop on an Automag frame is that they frequently do not allow the sear to completely depress the on/off pin. This drasticly reduces the performance of the gun. In a way it would be like messing with the trigger rod which is a big no-no.

[luke]

If you want a lighter trigger pull, that’s easy to do.

First get an Intell Frame.

Second is to use a shorter on/off pin. The easiest way is to us an E-Mag on/off pin which is .070” in comparison to an RT which is .075. You can even go shorter, but if you go too short you’ll end up with a gun in runaway. Believe it or not there is a noticeable difference in the pull using the two different pins.

Here is a link you might be interested in.>>>>>

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38008

[logamus]

Originally posted by luke
Here is a link you might be interested in.>>>>>

http://www.automags.org/forums/show...&threadid=38008



Sorry...

The page you requested could not be found on automags.org.

[luke]

Sorry about that, it's now fixed….

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

I would love to get a sick rate of fire out of my Mag, I can already outrun my 12V Revi W/ Xboard but only because I don't have the intellifeed setup. I think that'd help alot.

So what is the best way to set up a Minimag or a Minimag with an Xvalve with a nice, crisp, short trigger pull with less force required to push it, but not through any serious modifications or adjusting it so much that it has runaway fire, cycling problems, unsafe or inactivates the safety, or breaks down quickly? I understand a trigger stop, an Emag on/off pin or a filed down on/off pin, and a few other ways have been suggested. Can someone explain exactly what a trigger stop is (as in what it's made of, where and how it is installed, and what is the safest setup to use to start with, giving me an improved trigger without side effects) and anyone who has used a modified or different pin (Luke I like your idea, can you explain further?) your input on what works, what doesn't, and why you think it helps would be really beneficial. Again, I am looking for ways to help it, but not make it an unsafe trigger that has runaway or is going to break every game.

Thanks everybody, I hope I get some good ideas on the table for everyone to share.

[luke]

A trigger stop simply prevents “over” pull of the trigger. A stop consists of drilling and tapping a hole behind the trigger in the frame, you install an allen screw so it’s adjustable. A small amount of over pull is required for the valve to operate properly. When I adjust mine, I use a small spacer between the stop and the back of the trigger, adjust the screw until there is no extra pull with the spacer between the trigger and stop.

Shorting the on/off pin shortens the trigger pull and also seems to lighten it. You can safely run an E-Mag on/off pin (the RT is .075” E-Mag is .070”) in your RT Valve without your gun going into run away mode. In fact if you can go even shorter without any problems, but you will get less life out of your pin.