What's the best CAD program?

[paintball8869]

I need to get a CAD program so I can design a front block for my rainmaker (work in progress). I was wondering what the best cad program is for someone who has never used a cad program. I'm also hoping to make wavy lines in teh future, if that helps. Thanks.

[pito189]

I have used Autocad 2002 with Mechainical Desktop, and that was fairly easy to pick up. I don't know about the wavy lines though. Manike swears by Tebis Cad/Cam, and I believe that is what he used for the CnC's, and is using for the Manike E-Mag.

Either way both programs are going to cost a pretty penny. Maybe take a look around, I know some websites offer free demos, to try their products out.

[Spray Painter]

what do you plan on using the program for? different programs are made for differnet uses

[magman007]

i believe manike said today in the chat, that tebis will run you from 17000 to 70000 for the softwear alone..


the price difference being in what the softwear will be applied for

[BajaBoy]

Originally posted by magman007
i believe manike said today in the chat, that tebis will run you from 17000 to 70000 for the softwear alone..


the price difference being in what the softwear will be applied for


woah.. from 17 grand to 70 grand???

[paintball8869]

i'm using it to make a front block, like on a cocker, for my rainmaker. Should be fairly simple, mostly straight lines, some angles, but not many.

I'm just lookin for somethin simple so i can see how well everything works out when put together.......i can't visualize it all and make sure it works before sending to a machinist without doin it on a 3d program.

[steveg]

You might want to look at Quikcad or Autosketch by autodesk
(autocad) easy to use and learn 2d programs and available
at just about any large software store.
Instant engineer by designcad/upperspace is a 2D program
as well

www.autosketch.com www.quickcad.com www.designcad.com

if you want to dabble in 3D go to www.ptc.com and download
pro/desktop express for free.

"CAM" programs are used to create the tool path for CNC
machines and normally do not have much drawing capability.

PS as I type this the quickcad link is dead use this one
www.autodesk.com/quickcad
PPS I think that autosketch and quickcad are the same program

[manike]

Solidworks is a nice system to design with and make high quality files also. I don't know if they do a demo version...

Autodesk inventor or similiar might not be a bad idea? Autocad 2000 and on should be able to do what you need...

Tebis is what I use but then I work for the company and it's a very expensive top end product. It's more CAM related (although it is CAD also).

It looks like Steveg has provided some good links :)

manike

[steveg]

for some comparative pricing try this http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/229617/ref=br_bx_c_1_2/103-9738089-7494266

and when you are ready to turn your creation into metal
go here (CAM at the best possible price)www.mecsoft.com

[mykroft]

Try AutoCad LT.

Completely AutoCAD compatible, but much cheaper (About $500US).

Much more powerfull than the cheapo 2d programs that are so popular for floorplans.

[steveg]

Mycroft I have both autosketch and quickcad they are WAY
more than canned floorplan programs.
Both will do most of what autocad will do in 2D mode

[mykroft]

steveg: Never said they weren't. It's just what they are usually used for. AutoCad LT has some 3d Capability, which is usefull for designing frontblocks, it's significantly more capable than QuickCad or Autosketch, and it's reasonably priced.

[lamby]

I have used autocad lt, R14,2000,and 2002. I can do a decent job in a 2D enviroment, but the 3D stuff KILLS me. The best 3D software I found is "Pro Engineer" It is also a cad/cam software that Harley uses for prototyping (my buddy works in experimental machine there)Very cool program, but VERY VERY expensive. There is a demo that puts a water mark on your drawing that I got for free (Student version) BUt the water mark is not good if if you really want to use the drawing. I think PRO E sells for about $25k per machine so the demo is fine for me....

[TRIAD]

I use AutoCADD LT at school, and really like it. It can do quite a bit, and doesn't cost too much. Also, it's relatively easy to learn (as long as you read the manual), and there isn't much to figure out for what you're doing. I'd look into taking a class at highschool, or maybe a night class at a local college, just so you can get the hang of it. I know I wouldn't do so well if I just bought it on my own.

[Evil Bob]

Manike...

Which Tebis product do you use? Their website has quite a few listed.

-Evil Bob

[manike]

Originally posted by Evil Bob
Manike...

Which Tebis product do you use? Their website has quite a few listed.

All of them :) Since I run the UK subsiduary of Tebis and do demonstrations and consultancy work I need to be familiar with it all. The software has one base and then all other functionality is modular and works in the same enviroment.

For the C&C X-mags the main functionality comes from 'base' and '3D Design' as well as a little 'Advanced Surfaces' to actually model up the parts and designs. Then the milling is done with 3 axis functionality from 'Roughing' 'Surfacing finishing' and 'rest machining'.

If I could get use of a 5 axis mill, I'd be using that as well (it's one of the functionalities I specialise in) and I'd be creating something no one else had, but you need the mill to run it on.

One project I am working on for a friend for his X-mag also uses the 'scan' module functionality where he actually sent me a pottery 'face', I had it scanned and then will be machining a scaled version into the side of his gun.

I might also be doing the same with the scanned image of a women's body 'Carmen'... the same one you can see being milled on our website :D

manike

[Fred]

I've been using CAD software for... probably 8 or 9 years now. I started with a version of Autosketch that fit on ONE floppy disk, yes, ONE DISK!

Learned AutoCAD in school, learned 3D Studio, and in the workplace I have used CAD2000, and 2k2, and unfortunately LT.

I think LT sucks, if you want to do simple 2d drawings for floorplans, go for it, but 2k2 is way better. The 3d interface in AutoCAD can be tricky, but once you get the hang of it its not too bad.

3d studio (max and viz) are very powerful as well, but very expensive.

I prefer to use the computers at school, or the wonderful system we call Kazaa if you really want to just mess around at home with the software.

---Fred

[Evil Bob]

Manike... Very cool. Would love to see picts of the scan milling once you get a hold of some, lots of potential there.

-Evil Bob

[manike]

Originally posted by Evil Bob
Would love to see picts of the scan milling once you get a hold of some, lots of potential there.

-Evil Bob

Yeah, isn't there just :)

Have been tying to get a scan or stl file of a Lion or Dinosaur to mill into the extreme body. No luck yet though :( Would be hella cool!

manike

[steveg]

Manike, a bit convoluted but, first download ctrlview from
http://www.ctrlview.com/ and then find yourself a dinosour
etc in vrml (wrl) 3d studio (3ds)or wavefront (obj)
then export it as .stl
the image looks a bit nasty in ctrlview it's self but
don't worry it looks just fine as .stl

[manike]

Originally posted by steveg
and then find yourself a dinosour
etc in vrml (wrl) 3d studio (3ds)or wavefront (obj)


That's the hard bit :) . I can get it converted to stl easily if I can find the original file somewhere. Is there a database of such files for 3d Studio or Wavefront somewhere? I've heard of such things, but never found a cheap/free one on the net. I heard of a disk library for 20,000$ though :eek:

Thanks

manike

[PsychoMag]

I am a CAD Designer and use AutoCAD 2000i at work and AutoCAD 2002 at home. I have played in MicroStation, Pro-Engineer, and a little with Pro-Iso.

[than205]

Originally posted by lamby
I have used autocad lt, R14,2000,and 2002. I can do a decent job in a 2D enviroment, but the 3D stuff KILLS me. The best 3D software I found is "Pro Engineer" It is also a cad/cam software that Harley uses for prototyping (my buddy works in experimental machine there)Very cool program, but VERY VERY expensive. There is a demo that puts a water mark on your drawing that I got for free (Student version) BUt the water mark is not good if if you really want to use the drawing. I think PRO E sells for about $25k per machine so the demo is fine for me....

Actually, Pro/E is down to $5k for the foundation package. This includes modeling, drafting, assembly, sheetmetal and etc. They are in a major competition with Solidworks and this has driven them to reduce thier prices significantly. The add-ons do drive up the price alot.
I've used quite a few cad packages and I prefer Pro/E. However, for home use I would get Autocad LT. (It has an easy learning curve.)

[Vegeta]

I have used Autocad r14, 2000, and 2002, along with many non- CAD modelling programs like 3D studio MAX and Lightwave.

I have used Autocad r14 for technical/mechanical 2d drawings for the past 4 months now and I am deat set on it. It is so easy to create things, especially Isometric pictoral drawings of whatever someone needs in a matter of minutes. As for curved splines it is excellent for freehanding or plotting points. As for CAM work (putting the design into a fomat readable by a computerized milling machine) I do not know.

If you want to design something that can be programmed for tooling and put to a automated milling machine, Solidworks is a cheap way to go.

For modelling something for pre-production renderings as to see waht they will look like annoed, in lighting, on markers, 3D studio MAX is an excellent 3D modeler that will do better at rendering 3D model for the visual aspect than the production aspect. Allthough it will run you a good $3500.

[Pand0ra]

For the 3D modeling Rhino is also a good program. Very powerfull, and easy to use. It supports Nurbs modeling also.
And this is a least one program affordable.

http://rhino3d.com/

Here's a small exemple of what Rhino can do.

@++

[billmi]

I know this is a really old school answer....

But some drafting velum, a T-Square, pair of triangles, pair of mechanical pencils (one for each of two lead hardness levels), sandpaper (for pointing the pencils), mechanical rule, compass, eraser and divider will handle WAY, WAY, WAY more than any software coming anywhere close in price.

That being said, I don't think I've leaned over a drafting table in at least 10 years.

I generally model in Modeler by Stuart Ferguson, it's part of Lightwave 3D. For illustration and animation it's the bomb. When I started using it, it's price was under $3,000 (bundled with a lot of other video software) then it came out stand-alone for $1,200 or so. It's closest competitor at the time was Wavefront which was about $30,000. At the time, on one of the feature lists the publisher listed "It's less expensive than a car.... Unless it's a really crappy car."

I used both, and preferred Lightwave (as did most of the animators for shows like Deep Space 9, Babylon 5, etc.)

The image below is from an animation I had in my video production demo reel in the mid-90s, somwehere around 1994. Problem was I had clients ask me where the monorail was, they'd never seen it before. They didn't at first get that it was CG.

http://www.corin.com/bill/gallery/mrail1.jpg

It's not machining oriented though, it's illustration oriented, so it's not the best tool for doing something that's going to bust out to a 3 view for machining. You could certainly model it up fine in Modeler, but you'd then need to export the file to another package to bust out into machine drawings.

This animated Gif I modeled and rendered for a client in Lightwave 3.0 (the software is now to version 7 somthingorother) somewhere around 1997:

http://www.usapaintball.com/assets/images/viperspin.gif

Also, at http://www.pigtv.net/01_summary/01_therules.shtml - during the show's introduction, the "studio" that I am standing in, complete with monitors rolling video, big PigTV logo on the wall, and my shadow cast on the wall behind me, was generated in Lightwave 3D.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[steveg]

But some drafting velum, a T-Square, pair of triangles, pair of mechanical pencils (one for each of two lead hardness levels), sandpaper (for pointing the pencils), mechanical rule, compass, eraser and divider will handle WAY, WAY, WAY more than any software coming anywhere close in price.
Bill! have you checked out the price on that stuff lately :eek:

To tell the truth any time i've had stuff machined I've
given the machinist(a good yet long suffering friend)
a hand drawn sketch with CLEARLY marked dimensions and
tolerences (2 absolutely differant things)

all the various programs mentioned are a bit like using
a sledgehammer to crack the shell on a walnut.
pb did state that he wanted simple easy to use 2D

[billmi]

Originally posted by steveg

Bill! have you checked out the price on that stuff lately :eek:


Admittedly it's been a while - but I know where mine are, and can loan them to someone who will return them in good condition :-)



To tell the truth any time i've had stuff machined I've
given the machinist(a good yet long suffering friend)
a hand drawn sketch with CLEARLY marked dimensions and
tolerences (2 absolutely differant things)

all the various programs mentioned are a bit like using
a sledgehammer to crack the shell on a walnut.
pb did state that he wanted simple easy to use 2D

I hear you. The one part that I designed that ended up being a product - the Icebox for the Rainmaker, I drew a labled 3 view in PageMaker, and hand scetched an orthographic porojection. That's what I sold to USAPP, and the machinist was plenty happy with it. I also didn't bother with detailing the ASA threads and dimensions on the back, I simply included the ASTM ASA specs and drawings, and noted in the drawing that it should comply to the ASTM specs.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills