I hate Twist-Lock, how about you?

[JEDI]

I really dislike the twist lock design. This is my opinion, and I'm not looking for any harassment. I do intend to explain myself, so dont take this as a blatant AGD flame. Opposing opinions are welcome obviously, but please dont respond if you're one of those "I would defend poop on a stick if AGD made it" poeple.:D

I used to like it due to its simplicity of releasing the barrel. I own two mags, a Pro, and a ULE Emag. Now, after customing my Emag extensively, and owning a cocker, I cant stand the twist lock.

From a design stand point its an engineering nightmare. Why would you add 7 parts (2 Orings, 2 nubbins, 3 twist lock parts) to do the job of 1 simple threaded barrel? Sure you need a ball detent with conventional treads, but its a proven design that works.

Tom, what was your motivation, back when your first Mags came out? Was it simply to be different? When properly adjusted and what not they work, but theres still so much room for hassle. Add in the fact that different barrel companies tolerances arent always perfect. Two of my DYE barrels always give me trouble.

I switched all my Emag parts to new ULE parts, and the twist lock assembly is the one part giving me ridiculous trouble. I guess some one will argue that twist lock is great, but let me ask you this: Why did Tom switch to cocker threads for the Xmag? And why is there a new threaded slug body for all mags?

I think Twist lock was a bad idea that just made it too far.

Darn I hate twist Lock.:confused:

[digitard]

I dont know his motivation, but I know I dig it ...

Mainly cause if a ball breaks, or anything I can remove my barrel and squeegy it in the same time it takes to remove a twist off barrel.

Sincerely,
Dave K

[Scootyd]

I believe that tom was thinking along the lines of quick release for cleaning. I also am not a fan of the twist lock barrels. That's why I have a micro and micro e. The regular e-mag would have been cheaper but I like the threaded barrels. Just my .02

[Sir Chopsalot]

i thought it said in the video that putting threads into the steel body would be too difficult.....dont quote me on that
Tom, what was your motivation, back when your first Mags came out?

[RetroEclipseMan]

I think in some aspects that the twist lock isn't the greatest but I like that fact it makes it easy to take the barrel off the gun.I haven't had a problem using different twist lock barrels on my gun like you have so I can't say I've had problems with it that way. The thing I don't like about the twist lock systme is that if you aren't paying attention when you pull off the barrel you'll start losing paint if you tip it down. I used to remedy this problem on the field by just turning the feed plug to stop the revy from feeding paint but now with the no-rise body on my gun i have to be a little more carefull. This is however a minor problem.

[JEDI]

Digitard-- Well, I suppose. That used to be my argument too. Until I converted my Emag to a center feed, and needed even more barrels. Thats a part I forgot to mention too. Centerfeed! you need completely new barrels!

Have you ever had to work on the twist lock, or remove it? Nothing but trouble.

[Evil Bob]

Economy of motion = speed... Back in the old days (early 90's), the fastest barrel removal system on the market was on the AutoMag. Nothing else was faster then twist 90 degrees and pull straight out, the rest of the market had lots of threads to turn through before you could remove the barrel. This was long before Level 10 was even a dream, before the kindler, gentler paintball loving bolt systems of today.

The removable breaches is why he's gone to the threaded barrles, it's easier to support one barrel instead of going for three different barrel backs to support all three breach directions. Going with cocker threads was an easy answer to the different breaches.

-Evil Bob

[JEDI]

So it's an older design based on the idea of quickly removing your barrel. Years have past, and several new mags have come out. I would think Tom would see the flaw in the design (in my opinion) and the fact that its a redesign of the wheel. 10 extra seconds to remove your barrel wont kill any one. Most tourney players dont remove anyway, they use the one shot.

I just think it allows for too many other problematic issues that out-weigh the necessity for speedy barrel removal.

[FreshmanBob]

weeeeeeeeeeeelll he is putting out the cocker threaded sluggo bodies, and the cocker threaded x-mags...

its almost like Tom's way ahead of ya jedi. :)

[Evil Bob]

Level 10 came out but a few months ago... and the extreme and the new slug bodies all have cocker threads. Put 2 and 2 together and you have your answer.

Yes, the Mag is evolving to a new barrel type since the chopping at the bolt issue has been resolved, now all we need to do is eliminate barrel breaks...

-Evil Bob

[hitech]

I love the twist lock barrel. It is very easy to remove/replace. I can't think of any problems with it. Threaded barrel can (and do) strip threads. Twist locks don't.

BTW, the ONLY reason that the extreems and slugo bodys use cocker threads (instead of a twist lock style) is because more people like/want cocker threads. Period. It has NOTHING to do with cocker (or any other) threaded barrels being better. It's ONLY because that is what the custome wants. :(

[ß.C.]

I love twist lock, it's one reason why mags are more unique. The only problem I have with the twist lock is that barrel companies HATE IT THEY DON'T MAKE AUTOMAG BARRELS BECAUSE OF IT! Other than that te twist lock is lovely.

[ben_JD]

Originally posted by hitech
BTW, the ONLY reason that the extreems and slugo bodys use cocker threads (instead of a twist lock style) is because more people like/want cocker threads. Period. It has NOTHING to do with cocker (or any other) threaded barrels being better. It's ONLY because that is what the custome wants. :( To elaborate: the high-end Autococker owner will more easily be convinced to drop a thousand dollars on a marker to which he/she already owns the correct barrels. Marketing.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by hitech
I love the twist lock barrel. It is very easy to remove/replace. I can't think of any problems with it. Threaded barrel can (and do) strip threads. Twist locks don't.

BTW, the ONLY reason that the extreems and slugo bodys use cocker threads (instead of a twist lock style) is because more people like/want cocker threads. Period. It has NOTHING to do with cocker (or any other) threaded barrels being better. It's ONLY because that is what the custome wants. :(

I have never seen a barrel thread strip. I've seen people carelessly cross thread them, but not strip. Maybe with careless misuse.

I'm not arguing that cocker threads specifically are better than other threads, just that threaded barrels in general are better than twist lock. And the fact that more people want/like it better does say something. In general (not always) people will like a better simpler, better design, hence: more people want threaded mag barrels.

You say that you've never seen a problem with twist lock. How about the fact that no one wants to make twist lock barrels any more? How about the fact that most twist lock barrels weigh/cost more than threaded barrels. How many guns do you own? If you ever change your mag to a center feed, or you ever get another gun, tell me how annoying it is to get new barrels! I now own a HL Boomstick, a center feed Boomstick, and a Cocker Boomstick. Seems very unnecessary

[EsPo]

i love twist lock.. except when it comes to warp feed....

it seems like the warp pushes the ball that is next to shoot to far into the chamber, then when you twist off the barrel, it breaks that ball.... ive done that many times.

[WARPED1]

I also do not like the twist lock design.

[hitech]

Originally posted by JEDI
I have never seen a barrel thread strip. I've seen people carelessly cross thread them, but not strip. Maybe with careless misuse.
Once you cross thread it, striping a thread is the next step. I've heard many people complain about stripped barrels, I believe Tom was one of them.


Originally posted by JEDI
I'm not arguing that cocker threads specifically are better than other threads, just that threaded barrels in general are better than twist lock.
Why? I can't think of a reason that threaded barrels are inherently better than the twist lock.


Originally posted by JEDI
And the fact that more people want/like it better does say something.
Yup, to me it says that it is NOT the best. It has been my experience that the most popular is NOT the best. Betamax and Windows come to mind. ;)


Originally posted by JEDI
You say that you've never seen a problem with twist lock. How about the fact that no one wants to make twist lock barrels any more?
Companies not wanting to make twist lock barrels has NOTHING to do with how well the twist lock works.


Originally posted by JEDI
How about the fact that most twist lock barrels weigh/cost more than threaded barrels.
Because the cost more they are inferior? What does that say about high end markers (Angels, CnC Extreems, etc)?


Originally posted by JEDI
How many guns do you own?
I own four markers, why?


Originally posted by JEDI
If you ever change your mag to a center feed, or you ever get another gun, tell me how annoying it is to get new barrels! I now own a HL Boomstick, a center feed Boomstick, and a Cocker Boomstick.
I don't purchase markers very often. Since 1986 I have purchased four. I have no use for center feed, however "they" make twist locks that work for power feed and center feed I believe. I would expect to purchase new barrels if I purchased a new marker. I don't want a lot of expensive barrels so it isn't an issue. My $25 barrel shoots as well as ANY barrel I have seen. ;)

[SyntaxError]

Actually I complain about this all the time, so I'd like to contribute too:D

Twist lock barrels are the devil! I hate the gouges that the stupid twist lock left in my barrels, especially when my friend's new Cocker barrel (which we got at the same time) looks brand new. My twist lock has jammed, causing me to take the entire marker apart, and has numerous times proved to be less reliable than a threaded barrel system.

Now, in a marker such as the Automag line that is based on simplicity, why complicate the barrel system? The twist lock is nice when it works, but more often than not I find myself cursing it because of: A)the $10 it costs to buy a mag barrel due to the twistlock design B)the extra, unnecessary weight it adds C)the fact that the twistlock NEVER seems to work when I need it to, and D)the fact that the stupid twistlock pin scratched my nice new All-American.

I can understand how in theory the twist lock design is nice, however in actuality it has been a problem with me since day one, what with adjusting the tension and all, scratching my barrels, and giving a higher cost to the barrels themselves. I realized that when I owned my Autococker, the screw in barrel was a nice feature.

[PolishSausage]

My All American is nice and shiny...

Have you ever typed a whole paragraph, and then just said "that's stupid", and deleted it? Yeah, that just happened here...

[paint magnet]

It has it's pros and cons. The only thing I don't like about it is that when you take off the barrel, there's nothing to stop the balls from rolling out.

[sneakyhacker420]

I LOVE THE TWIST LOCK!!! (no i'm not the poop-on-stick lover)

even if the twist lock jams (just gotta oil the twist lock pin), i still love it

in the heat of battle, i can take it out and squeege it so easily compared to a threaded barrel, it is also easier to remove when you have oily paint-covered hands from crawling in the snake

they cost a bit more than threaded barrels, but its damn well worth it

[K-villeplayer]

SyntaxError: what exactly do you mean by Jammed. How did it happen (what went wrong). I've never had this problem and was just wondering what might have caused it or what not.

Thanks
Andrew

[BajaBoy]

im not reading what everyone said but heres what i have to say. The more i use it the more i love it. Easy to clean, very quick to take off the barrel. love the ball detenit (sp). i really do love it

[TippmannMan]

ive written a couple of posts on this before. but my main point is i have had nothing but bad experience and the quickness it takes to remove a twist lock as opposed to a threaded barrel is just over rated. im not gonna be pulling out my barrel while running or diving into a bunker. when i do take out the barrel (which is rare thanks to the level 10 :)) i find cover and do it then.

[WARPED1]

I been playing 13 years and have never taken a barrel off during a game.Except of course the few 24 hour scenario games I've been too.My point?None.:)

[Mango]

Twist lock is awsome. Just my $.02 I dont see why people hate it.:confused:

[shartley]

I have also never had to take my barrel off during a game. I DO like the twist and pull ease of the Twist-Lock…. However…… yup, I have a however….. I don’t like that every brand of barrel does not have a twist lock version.

I would really love to have a set of Evil’s Pipes, but they don’t make them for TLs.

It just seems easier to get great barrels in cocker (or other major brand) threads. I think all markers should have the same threading, but we all have dreams… ;)

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by K-villeplayer
SyntaxError: what exactly do you mean by Jammed. How did it happen (what went wrong). I've never had this problem and was just wondering what might have caused it or what not.


By jammed I mean the twist lock refused to move up and down. I had to exchange body rails to make sure the twist lock could move. Any of the DC guys there can tell you, I had to take the entire gun apart to remove the barrel. I ended up replacing the entire assembly, it just stopped moving.

And for once I agree with Shartley, they should all have the same threads, but that'll never happen unfortunately.

[rx2]

Upon reading this, the "Diff'rent Strokes" theme song comes to mind. Well, parts of it.

[SyntaxError]

lol

"Watchu talkin' bout rx2?"

[JEDI]

Originally posted by hitech

Companies not wanting to make twist lock barrels has NOTHING to do with how well the twist lock works.

No, it doesnt effect the way the twist lock works, but if you cant get twist lock barrels eventually, what good is it. Twist lock can be the best thing ever, but if no one makes a barrel to go with it, its not worth crap


Originally posted by hitech

Because the cost more they are inferior? What does that say about high end markers (Angels, CnC Extreems, etc)?

I didnt say they are inferior because they cost more. I SAID THEY COST MORE! I guess you dont mind spending $10 extra for a barrel. Your acting like availability and price mean nothing, and has nothing to do with the design. Would you buy shoes that only work with $50 laces, and on top of that you cant find the laces any where?



Originally posted by hitech
I own four markers, why?

Ok, and how many different barrels do those 4 markers require? I own two mags, and because of twist lock I need two different barrels for guns made by the same company.



Originally posted by hitech
I don't want a lot of expensive barrels so it isn't an issue. My $25 barrel shoots as well as ANY barrel I have seen. ;)

Now I'm confused, you dont want expensive barrels, but you like paying $10 extra for mag barrels. I dont care if you want them or not, but theres a VERY small market for barrels under say $50. Do you think I like paying for 3 different Boomsticks?

I'm not arguing your opinion hitech, but to disregard issues like price, availability, and testimony of jamming and failure, is just naive. The whole basis of this forum is too see what people think. And generally its pretty smart to go with the majority's opinion.

Evolution of a product occurs based soley on what the public wants, because they discover what works better. I think my point is proven with the fact that Tom made his best of the best super gun X-mag with a threaded barrel. Its proven technology, and the twist lock is going to become out dated, and phased out.

[FooTemps]

I like the twist-lock system. It works fairly well, imo. I've never needed to remove the barrel in game but it really does help cleaning and preping for the next game. It also removes one thing to check, the ball detent. Since the nubbin (nubbin, i love that word) is part of the barrel you basically check 2 parts at once. It's a lot easier to have the breech, nubbin, and barrel all in once piece instead of 3 different pieces. This way it's easier to clean and inspect your parts.

[rikkter]

i like them. and then i dont
i tried my teamamtes boomstick once.. didn't fit. my other teammate told me he noticed that with boomsticks its mix and match, some work and some dont with mags. mainly the pin but still. i tried it on my other mag and it fit fine.
the other thing i dont like about them is when you shoot. and you chop a ball sometimes it'll go between the bolt and the barrel, or the body and barrel. either way in both cases its a pain to get the barrel out and sometimes gotta take the trigger frame off then the bodyrail and pin and why?

i like them cause they're quick and easy to remove and clean on and off the field.

jedi, instead of spending 100 dollars on another boomstick, why didn't you just get it milled for both vert and r or l feeds for like 20 dollars? just curious.

[JEDI]

Rikkter, I think by removing the trigger frame, you loosen the bond between the barrel, and the frame rail. Actually, I had an AO member mill my barrel to work for both, but that was just part of the process that frustrated me. Thank you though for the suggestion.

[KamikazeChiKenz]

Originally posted by rx2
Upon reading this, the "Diff'rent Strokes" theme song comes to mind. Well, parts of it.

Originally posted by SyntaxError
lol

"Watchu talkin' bout rx2?"

Now thats funny

[OldSchoolMag]

The twist-lock barrels were a nice design, made to optimize the speed of cleaning your barrel - not half bad, and it worked. The problem was, that the only things holding the barrel in place were the O-rings. Now, I don't know if you have tried this, but hold your marker solidly, and then attempt to move your barrel - you can. Not much, but that's ACCURACY you're moving there. The threaded barrels have a much much higher chance of hitting the target (assuming same bore to paint match, velocity, and other nit-picky things) because the threads hold the barrel more securely than 2 O-rings will.

I liked twist-lock back when I broke balls - but I like the change AGD is making to Cocker barrels - cheaper, you can find them in more places, and there are more to choose from.

OSM

[hitech]

Originally posted by JEDI
No, it doesn't effect the way the twist lock works, but if you can't get twist lock barrels eventually, what good is it. Twist lock can be the best thing ever, but if no one makes a barrel to go with it, it's not worth crap.
You're right, if you can't get them it will be a big problem.


Originally posted by JEDI
I didn't say they are inferior because they cost more. I SAID THEY COST MORE! I guess you don't mind spending $10 extra for a barrel.
Again, you're right. I don't mind paying a little extra for a twist lock barrel.


Originally posted by JEDI
Ok, and how many different barrels do those 4 markers require?
One. However, only the 'mag has removable barrels. ;)


Originally posted by JEDI
Now I'm confused, you don't want expensive barrels, but you like paying $10 extra for 'mag barrels.
Nothing to be confused about. I don't mind paying A LITTLE extra. I do NOT buy expensive barrels. I have a stock emag barrel (paid $25 for it), a crown point (was basically free with a parts kit ;) ), a smartparts progressive that was a gift (I don't think those are expensive, are they?) and a stock minimag barrel that was also a gift.


Originally posted by JEDI
...to disregard issues like price, availability, and testimony of jamming and failure, is just naive... And generally it's pretty smart to go with the majority's opinion.
Price and availability are issues. They just have not been issues for me, therefore they are not an issue for me. ;) I'm also not ignoring the testimonies of jamming, it's just that this is the first I have heard of it (where the twist lock was at fault). I've heard of more problems with the threads of cocker barrels than with twist locks. Maybe it's because there are more of them. And generally I have found that the majority's opinion is often wrong.


Originally posted by JEDI
Evolution of a product occurs based solely on what the public wants, because they discover what works better. I think my point is proven with the fact that Tom made his best of the best super gun X-mag with a threaded barrel. It's proven technology and the twist lock is going to become out dated, and phased out.
Evolution of a product does NOT occur based solely on what the public wants. Like I said earlier, the majority is often wrong. And Tom did NOT make the x-mag with a threaded barrel because it's better. He made it that way because it sells better, period. Tom prefers the twist lock. I'm sure of this as he told me so personally.

BTW, I am not bothered at all. Threads like these are my favorites. You learn more from people who do not agree with you than you do from those who do. :D

[hitech]

Originally posted by OldSchoolMag
...but hold your marker solidly, and then attempt to move your barrel - you can. Not much, but that's ACCURACY you're moving there.

Nope. It does NOT affect accuracy at all. The paintball is long gone BEFORE the barrel can move. I believe Tom has proof of this somewhere, but has probably grown tired of proving it.

[hitech]

Anyone else?

[rikkter]

post whore:D

[magman007]

Ok, and how many different barrels do those 4 markers require? I own two mags, and because of twist lock I need two different barrels for guns made by the same company


Hmmm, same company, diffent threads.... ever hear of the shocker and the impulse?


Now I'm confused, you dont want expensive barrels, but you like paying $10 extra for mag barrels. I dont care if you want them or not, but theres a VERY small market for barrels under say $50. Do you think I like paying for 3 different Boomsticks?


why did you buy a centerfeed bomer? you could have goten your barrle drilled for centerfeed, and if you wanted to use it on your other mag, you could have turned it a little harder back into the old twisty lock....


ALso, why did you pay for 3 boomsticks? you could have gotten some cp barrels, which imho are beter quality than the boomsticks, and you could have gotten 2 of each for that price.... there also about 40 dollars...



ME, i love the twist lock, i also live the breach of the marker, being in the barrel. Makes more sence to me, less space and things for the ball to travel on. Altho, now i shoot a sfl, so thats something i will need to get used to, but tom thought of thos, 3 -4 twists, and i can remove the breach, baisically the same idea as a twist lock!


also in your situation, for your money, you could have gotten a freak, and 3 separate backs for that money.... kinda sounds like you dug your own mistake here, and are trying to get out of it by blaming it on the twist lock



ALso, the olny reason tom has gone cocker threaded on the sluggo, is because people want it, he loves the twist lock

edited for spelling

[LaW]

I have read all of this....

i prefer twistlock


My only problem is Jedi

he says
I think my point is proven with the fact that Tom made his best of the best super gun X-mag with a threaded barrel

The reason for the jump to threaded barrels is the industry is moving towards a standard barrel threading :) That makes more sense than just saying that threaded barrels are better because Tom made the xmag come with them. Geez :)

[rikkter]

i'm agreeing with law here. tom never said they were 'better'. he stated that the autocockers are one of the most if not the most common barrels. every place has them so. not every place has automag barrels.

[JEDI]

I did have my Boomstick milled for centerfeed, and no you can't just twist the barrel back into the old slot. In fact Damageinc, who milled them, specifically said it would no longer work.

You're opinion is that CP barrels are better than Boomsticks. Thats not my opinion, so that doesn't solve any thing for me.

As far as a Freak goes, I own one of them too. The last thing I want is 3 freak backs for one gun. They're not cheap either.

Money is an issue, but not the biggest. I just dont like dealing with the problems the twist lock has given me. You cant always blame problems on user error. I've seen a lot of people with jammed barrels, or jumped rails. Sure, maybe they caused it, but it wouldn't happen with threads.

Again though, we're all arguing opinions. Some thing I dont like is ok for you. I just happen to think the twist lock is an unnecessary hassle, and a reinvention of an already simple idea. If Tom didnt invent the twist lock, would you be here today complaining about problems with threads? I doubt it.

[magman007]

WHY WOULDNT YOU WANT 3 FREAK BACKS?!?!?!?! THATS THE FRIGGIN POINT! that is one of the reasons to get a freak, is that and he paint matching. they evens ay, if yu change markers, dont hange barrles, just change the back. your choice didnt seam to make sence.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by magman007
WHY WOULDNT YOU WANT 3 FREAK BACKS?!?!?!?! THATS THE FRIGGIN POINT!

Whoa! Buddy, chill out! Maybe you should lay of the AO for a while.

Twist Lock = Bad

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by magman007



why did you buy a centerfeed bomer? you could have goten your barrle drilled for centerfeed, and if you wanted to use it on your other mag, you could have turned it a little harder back into the old twisty lock....


ALso, why did you pay for 3 boomsticks? you could have gotten some cp barrels, which imho are beter quality than the boomsticks, and you could have gotten 2 of each for that price.... there also about 40 dollars...



ME, i love the twist lock, i also live the breach of the marker, being in the barrel. Makes more sence to me, less space and things for the ball to travel on. Altho, now i shoot a sfl, so thats something i will need to get used to, but tom thought of thos, 3 -4 twists, and i can remove the breach, baisically the same idea as a twist lock!


also in your situation, for your money, you could have gotten a freak, and 3 separate backs for that money.... kinda sounds like you dug your own mistake here, and are trying to get out of it by blaming it on the twist lock



ALso, the olny reason tom has gone cocker threaded on the sluggo, is because people want it, he loves the twist lock

edited for spelling

Wow, read that to yourself and tell me you don't sound like a jerk. If he doesn't want CP's he doesnt have to buy CP's!

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by JEDI

Twist Lock = Bad

can I correct that statement really quick?

Twist Lock = Bad for YOU
Twist Lock = good for ME

Everyone has their own preference.

[magman007]

Originally posted by SyntaxError


Wow, read that to yourself and tell me you don't sound like a jerk. If he doesn't want CP's he doesnt have to buy CP's!

All iw as doing was stressing the fact, that cp actually has better control and quality then his dye boomers, and they are int aht under 50 dollar category. I get the impression of sheer flash and stupidity on jedi's side.


PLease, answer me this, why buy a freak, and 3 boomers(well over 500 dollars) when he has the freak and can get 2 other backs? (300 at most) or, to make up costs, if he bought the freak after the boomers, or vice versa, why didnt he sell one ot get the other?

you need to admit, that the ability to change backs was a huge selling factor on the freaks. IT sounds to me that jedi likes to spend money, and complain about it.

Twist lock is tried and true, im sorry you all had problems with them, but it was probabally user error. Twist lock is faster, easier, and in most peoples opinions, better than a threaded barrel.

So what if your back looks scratched from the twist lock in the chanel? or around the back? its a mag barrel, we all expect it. It isnt going to lower your resale either. also, you dont see that part! it si in the marker! ( i was just arguing that point now, so that you dont argue it in your response.)

[JEDI]

Thanks for clearing that up MagMan.:rolleyes:

[JEDI]

Sorry to dig this thread up. I hope I dont see any of the above names in this thread, buying a Slug, or ULE body now that they're out. Cocker threads never tasted so good! You guys can keep your twist lock!!!

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=726439

[hitech]

Originally posted by JEDI
I hope I dont see any of the above names in this thread, buying a Slug, or ULE body now that they're out.

There are other reasons to buy a ULE body. However, I am not considering one BECAUSE it only takes cocker barrels.

BTW, you can make a twist lock barrel that will work with both power feed and center feed. A friend of mine "made" one. He used a dremel and a drill. :D

[covadsucks]

Just curious Jedi, are you going to get a ULE Body or are you going to keep the No-rise body/boomy combo...

I am not trying to flame, I was just curious to see what you've decided to do since the intial post was made and the sale of the cocker threaded ULE.

[WARPED1]

I might buy a purple one next month if they still have them.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by covadsucks
Just curious Jedi, are you going to get a ULE Body or are you going to keep the No-rise body/boomy combo...

I am not trying to flame, I was just curious to see what you've decided to do since the intial post was made and the sale of the cocker threaded ULE.
No, I just bought a ULE body. I have several cocker barrels already....for my cocker. Two of which are Boomies. I'll probably end up selling the twist-lock no rise.

[JT2002]

Originally posted by JEDI

Do you think I like paying for 3 different Boomsticks?

The whole basis of this forum is too see what people think.
well i tell you what i think!:D even though i dont have my mag anymore i loved teh twist lock. so nice and simple to take off barrel. i now own a timmy but i must say that even though availabilty of cocker threads is nice, i absolutely hate them. it takes forever to remove teh barrel. may just be lazy but cocker threads are pointlessly long.
oh any if you dont like paying for 3 diff boomies, then dont buy 3, buy1 !:eek: :D noone said you NEEDED to have a boomy for all of your mags. you paying for 3 boomies is your choice, not the guns. lol:D Not tryin to flame or nuttin just felt like puttin in my .02.;) :D

[Evil Bob]

Nyuk nyuk nyuk, a wise guy eh?

I bought a black ULE body yesterday ;p pppttthhh!!!

-Evil Bob

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by JEDI
Sorry to dig this thread up.

But you did anyway.

[JEDI]

Yes. Yes I did.

[NiteWolf1138]

Well, I think the twist-lock works well enough. Besides, faking an 'out of paint' situation is much easier for me using the TL. It's all about the mind games:D.

I am a bit miffed about not all companies not making barrels in TL, but oh well. As I have herd it explained LOTS before, there is more in barel hype than anything now-a-days.

I have tried it myself, an $11 old ported no-name shorty barrel actually out performed my Total Freak, but then again I didn't know I had the shorty untill after I got the Freak. I would have gotten the Freak anyway just to to see for myself and have the bore matching ability.

Like all things, it's personal preference. I've learned what I can, weighed the options, and made my decision. What I have is what I want/need.

[FlagCarrier]

even you guys that hate the twist lock have to admit that agd has been very fair and customer-friendly with the release of the threaded ule bodies. at least you have options now.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Evil Bob
I bought a black ULE body yesterday ;p pppttthhh!!!


:p TRADER! ;)

[AcemanPB]

I like twist lock, many people say it affects accuracy but with a threaded barrel the paintball is making the jump from a large bore (the breech) to a smaller bore (barrel) to me this seems like it would affect accuracy.

Anyway I wouldn't mind either one both do a good job in keeping your barrel on your gun :) .... and I have a Freak, the more backs the better!

[FlagCarrier]

Originally posted by AcemanPB
I like twist lock, many people say it affects accuracy but with a threaded barrel the paintball is making the jump from a large bore (the breech) to a smaller bore (barrel) to me this seems like it would affect accuracy.


that wouldnt necessarily affect accuracy, because any inconsistancies in the breach would be theoretically corrected in the barrel.

[JT2002]

Originally posted by hitech


:p TRADER! ;)
um, ahem, *cough cough* Traitor!
i think u need to go study websters dictionary.:rolleyes: :D
se habla espanol!:D

[Cristobal]

This point was aluded to oh so briefly somewhere on the first page, but I though I'd mention that in my opinion the twist lock is a marvelously ingenious solution to putting a breach and a barrel inside a stainless steel tube.

Looking at it from purely an engineering and ease of fabrication standpoint, it strikes me that the TL is probably simpler and more cost effective to produce given the automag body than a threaded style barrel system.

I would guess that the fact that the TL has stuck around has a lot to do with the fact that the automag continues to use the same stainless tube for a body.

It does not surprise me to see that now that we have aluminum bodies where we can more easily integrate threads, breach and body into one piece of material that we have cocker barrels offered on the new ULE and X-mags.

And in my opinion, the removable breach locked by a threaded barrel on the X-mag and SFL is the best of both worlds. Oddly enough, it too strikes me as quite ingenious ;)

[p8ntballsnowman]

I have jammed my twist lock by accidentally slamming it down so that the hole is on the other side, but maybe im just an idiot. Yeah, thats probly it. I had to take the gun apart to get it out.

[decimator4]

Well, I am new to the Mag, just got a minimag a week ago, but they seem fine to me. The barrel takes alot shorter time to take out. But one thing i was questioning, is that if you have a two peice barrel, will the back get stuck in the gun when you try and turn the twist lock out?

[Restola]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
in the heat of battle, i can take it out and squeege it so easily compared to a threaded barrel
I always thought that was the WORST part about the twist lock. If you bust a ball, take the barrel off and pull a squeeg through it, the little hole the balls drop into always gets paint gooing out of it.

I'd rather spend an extra two seconds twisting and have one solid pull suck the barrel clean than have to fiddle with stinking my thumb around trying to wipe the breech end of the barrel to get the goo off.

[ddinwdc]

I am happy to see AGD finally coming to its senses and adopting a more standardized thread. The twistlock had multiple problems: 1) when the barrel is removed, paint freely rolls out. Now I know a lot of you guys are going to say "just be careful etc., etc., etc.". Who has time to be careful in the snake with rounds whizing by your head? If I have to take extra time and care everytime I remove my barrel, it kind of defeats the whole "its so quick and easy to remove" argument, doesn't it? 2) The barrel often does not sit properly, meaning several seconds of playing "hunt for the grove and lock" game. This not only adds extra time, it often scraches up the barrel as well. 3) nubbins suck--no need to elaborate. 4) Cost & availablity.

Ok, so I provided three DESIGN reasons and one MARKETING reason. That should satisfy all but the most die hard "I'll defend poop on a stick if AGD makes it" crowd. I owned a classic for about two weeks and sold it because I hated the barrel system. Now that AGD is switching over to 'cocker threads, I have already bought a ULE body and plan on building my next mag. Next to Level 10, switching to 'cocker barrels is one of the smartest things AGD has done, and I predict it will win over many converts. Its nice to see that AGD is finally coming to terms with market and design realities--even if they had to be pushed kicking and screaming to do it.

[hitech]

Originally posted by ddinwdc
Ok, so I provided three DESIGN reasons and one MARKETING reason. That should satisfy all but the most die hard "I'll defend poop on a stick if AGD makes it" crowd.

I don't like poop on a stick, but I do like the twist lock.

1) When the barrel is removed, paint freely rolls out.

Just turn the marker upside down first, or turn the power feed plug. Either are really easy and take very little time. Or, use a warp (like me) and do nothing extra.

2) The barrel often does not sit properly, meaning several seconds of playing "hunt for the grove and lock" game.

Never had that problem. Even at it's worst (for me) it's way faster than cocker threads.

3) Nubbins suck--no need to elaborate.

Plastic nubbins work great. I've NEVER had any problem with these. Wire nubbins on the other hand...

4) Cost & availability.

I don't see the issue with cost. It's not much different. Availability is becoming an issue. But then, I'm not interested in those expensive new barrels, so it's not an issue for me.

I'm still not convinced. I LOVE the twist lock. You should too... ;)

[fire1811]

i have long loved twist lock barrels and still do
but i now have an xmag and i have to say i like that too

they both have advantages and disadvantages

[JEDI]

Originally posted by ddinwdc
I am happy to see AGD finally coming to its senses and adopting a more standardized thread. The twistlock had multiple problems: 1) when the barrel is removed, paint freely rolls out. Now I know a lot of you guys are going to say "just be careful etc., etc., etc.". Who has time to be careful in the snake with rounds whizing by your head? If I have to take extra time and care everytime I remove my barrel, it kind of defeats the whole "its so quick and easy to remove" argument, doesn't it? 2) The barrel often does not sit properly, meaning several seconds of playing "hunt for the grove and lock" game. This not only adds extra time, it often scraches up the barrel as well. 3) nubbins suck--no need to elaborate. 4) Cost & availablity.

Ok, so I provided three DESIGN reasons and one MARKETING reason. That should satisfy all but the most die hard "I'll defend poop on a stick if AGD makes it" crowd. I owned a classic for about two weeks and sold it because I hated the barrel system. Now that AGD is switching over to 'cocker threads, I have already bought a ULE body and plan on building my next mag. Next to Level 10, switching to 'cocker barrels is one of the smartest things AGD has done, and I predict it will win over many converts. Its nice to see that AGD is finally coming to terms with market and design realities--even if they had to be pushed kicking and screaming to do it.

I have to agree with all you've said. I wont argue this debate any more. As you can see, I've already voiced my opinion. I just wanted to say that you make very good points. People have a lot of fixes, and replies, but things are often different as you've stated, when your crammed into some snake. Threads may not be quicker, but they're so easy, and Non-problematic. Darn, there I go arguing a point again. But any way, I'm glad you piped in with your "speed ball" minded opinion, because different game play definitely has an affect on what is preferred or not. Good job man.

[Panzerboy]

Personally I am with those that perfer the twist lock.
I think it is what you are used to that you like.
I have jammed my twist lock before, yes the gun has to come apart unless you are lucky.
I have also been pinned in bunker with busted paint in cockers and mags. I much rather have those rounds whizzing around my head than hitting me in the head. The mag took less time to clean to a functional state.
Nubbins suck, and so do broken ball detents.
I was kind of disappointed that the new light bodies don't come with standard mag fittings.
As far as cost. The $1000 price tag for that E-mag didn't turn you off. Why should barrels or a barrel system.
I just picked up a Titanium Longbow system for my E-mag at the NPPL Las Vegas. They didn't have any stock problems.:)

[tye92]

No one can say they're not faster to remove and clean when u need to, 1/2 turn versus 5-8 complete turns?? I love and have always liked the twist lock barrel setup. The only reason alot of manufacturers don't make them is because of the lower demand factor the last while, with the pros using cockers and such these last few years instead of using AGD products. I really do like the twist lock and hope to see it not fade away. I personally have never had any probs. with it ever. I think with the Xmags, LEVEL 10 and such, AGD is gonna be back on top before long and to me the twist lock setup is part of AGD and they can up the demand for them through their products and i hope they do. Can't say that i'd complain about getting a X-mag with cocker threads though, besides me having to get new barrels, i think i could handle that, for a X-mag, those things are awesome.