L 10 is not my friend.

[Phil]

This is my own personal opinion and will probably get flamed but I am not really a big fan of Level 10. Before I got my centerfeed E-Mag I shot a powerfeed Old style RT. I never ever not even once chopped a paintball. The powerfeed compensates nicely for the blowback of the retrovalve. When I moved to the centerfeed I started chopping once or twice a day so I decided to get the L-10. Level 10 fixed my chopping in the centerfeed nicely but in trade uses more gas and functions sporatically. I am on the verge of getting rid of my level 10 and putting a halo-b on my gun in hopes that the Halo's positive feed will overcome the blowback. It may just be me doing the wrong thing but: My level 10 has been nothing but a hastle for me. My gun refuses to fire at times. I have gotten numerous bits of advice off of the forums here. I have gone down carriers trying to compensate for the o'ring breakin. I have tinkered till I am tired of tinkering. I am at a place now where it only refuses to fire on the first shot of the day or the first shot after it has been idle for a little while. It has also refused to fire at all on 2 occasions about one month apart durring a game causing me to be out. To me thought this is still unacceptable. I am not the only one I know of who is having level 10 problems. I have a buddy with a RT-PRO who's gun is on its second trip to AGD to get the L10 to work in his gun. It wont fire at all even after AGD installed the L10. No, he didn't fiddle with it. Just aired up and tried to play.

On the flip side if anyone knows what causes my sporatic L-10 behavior I would appreciate any advice.

I am using the .5 carrier, 2 shims, cut spring, imput pressure is at 900psi, I oil my gun with 6 drops in the microline before each day of play, I keep my gun clean, I wave my voodoo charm over it once a week... WTF:confused:

[Remington]

I've read a couple posts with similiar problems. It seems, to me anyway, that Level 10 is like a largemouth bass: a bass is extremely particular about what is cast to it and only bites at the best presentation. Even then though, the best presentation(in your case the Emag) just won't cut it or doesn't fit the bass's particular mood. Well, what I'm trying to say is this: Level 10 seems to not work in some markers, while in others it's a godsend.

[xmetal2001]

Once you get it "tweaked" and set up perfectly, its an amazing upgrade. But compare it to "No Chopping" upgrades(ex. Matrix's Trinity, various eyes, IR3's cops" and it really isn't too great of a thing in terms of simplicity.

For someone who bought a mag looking for simplicity(and i know alot of people to did) its the last thing they'll ever want to attempt to install.

It seems just too much of a hassle to be convienent for the average user.

But hey, it works great if you know what your doing.

[rikkter]

im kinda staying away from the level 10 my self to do people have problems. now you can't say "when they're proberly set up they work flawlessly".. well because obviously their having problems setting it up right in the first place.

at the field i play at. so far we've fixed every persons mag that has a level 10 in it. because of the level 10. one of them even had to call in and ask them whats up. and they couldn't really explain it. now it turned out it was just a flaw in the machinery(sp) and we had to shave off like literally a hundreth of a inch on a part that i dont recall, to get it to work. it was unbelieveable. had a couple people switch back to their old bolts and sell the lvl 10. and on ohter cases we got them to work and they worked good. but with all the hassle just to get them to work, and buying a mag because of their simple deisgn and ease of fixing, just doesn't cope with me. granted it a great upgrade if your chopping, but if your not chopping to begin with, why sacrifice 80 dollars. the possibility of frustation to set it up. and the slight less effeicient in gas?

i think the idea is great and all and is awesome when it works and everything. just everything else ecks me. anyways. i'll stop


damn xmetal. i should jsut delete mine. you said it shrot and sweet while i was typign all this. :o


:D

[E==Mag MAN]

I had a hate/love relationship with my lvl 10. Then i sat down and learned exactly what everything does, it couldnt be easier to adjust every 2/3 months of play now. Do you understand everything? if not learn and you wont be dissapointed i think.

Mine does that "not fire the first shot" on some adjustments but just tinker with some spacers or go up or down a shim if you can and it will go away with my experience.

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by xmetal2001


It seems just too much of a hassle to be convienent for the average user.

But hey, it works great if you know what your doing.

Well, the first time installing an LX it took me a while, but I can do them in about 5-7 minutes now, kinda used to it. They're not complicated at all, just a carrier, shims, and a backing washer...

[aaron_mag]

I am a moron...but I got Level 10 working very nicely. I thought the setup was fairly easy. I can't go back now that I have it!!!

[Mr.TKO]

Easiest upgrade I think I have ever put on my gun. Well, not really, but it wasn't even close to as hard as I thought it would be.

[rx2]

It seems that you may have a problem with the piston fit inside of the o-ring.
Because machines do have a margin of error, and also because it is impossible to precisely replicate the same ID on every o-ring in every batch ever made, getting the perfect match may be quite difficult. For myself, it was quite easy. But, I suppose that if one carrier is a little too tight, but the next one up is a little to loose, you will eiher have leaks, or bolt-stick.
Aside from taking a micron or two off of the piston, I find that taking out the bolt and oiling the piston and carrier o-ring has solved the problem in some markers. Simply dropping oil in the ASA wasn't enough. Keeping the setup properly oiled is crucial.
Of course, if you don't have the right combo of carrier, spring, shim, and velocity setting, then no amount of oil will help.
Also, I have seen one instance where the trigger rod was fooled with, and the tip of the sear wasn't clearing the fresh, clean edge of the new bolt.

[Brian68mag]

I have the same issues, thats why i decided not to buy it for my 68, i rather clean my barrel once or twice a day then having the gun not fire and eat more gas..

[Emagster]

Originally posted by Remington
Level 10 seems to not work in some markers, while in others it's a godsend.

i'm not to sure about this. I believe that lvl 10 is something that can be made to work, but it requires alot of tenkering to get it to work rightat first. once its been fitted right, it will work good from then on. I have to had trouble getting lvl 10 to work. today i went out to play and it wouldn't cooperate, so i just switched to stock pieces. in a few days, i'm going to get my scuba tank filled and just fiddle with it all day until it works perfect.

[Havoc_online]

On the flip side if anyone knows what causes my sporatic L-10 behavior I would appreciate any advice A number of things cause the level 10 "limbo".

1. make SURE your using the biggest carrier that doesnt leak(using a tighter carrier does NOT make the bolt softer)

2. Use the cut spring(cut side on bolt)

3. Make sure your bumper is still good(once the inner ring starts to shred, get rid of it, the shreds can get caught inbetween the bolt and powertube.

4. Keep your bumper oil'd(wet). A sticky bumper drags on the bolt and helps hold it back.

5. Of course maintain a good input pressure.

[Emagster]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
5. Of course maintain a good input pressure.

what is a good input pressure for level 10?

[pito189]

I ran mine last two weekends ago at 600psi, and didn't have a problem all day long. Only put like two drops of oil in the macroline near the valve. This was after not playing with the gun for two months while it was getting powdercoated then at AGD. I put at least a case through the gun. Guess I'm just lucky.:D

[Emagster]

is 1000psi to high of an input pressure for lvl 10? would lowering it make it easier?

[Phil]

Pito- where did you get the wrap around emag grips?

Havoc- I used the carrier just below where it leaks as you suggested when It was installed originally. However, the O'ring breaks in and you have to go down one carrier size.

It is obviously different for different guns. Hence all of the extra parts. It is simple to install L10. It is not so simple to trouble shoot if your gun isnt working properly. Even AGD had difficulty with my friends gun, otherwise they would not have sent him his gun back functioning in worse condition. (He sent it back and they are working on it. I have ever had faith in AGD's support and don't want you to take this as me bashing their support people. In my experience they are good guys and have always helped me.)

[xmetal2001]

Originally posted by SyntaxError


Well, the first time installing an LX it took me a while, but I can do them in about 5-7 minutes now, kinda used to it. They're not complicated at all, just a carrier, shims, and a backing washer...

Exactly. Its not complicated, but when you first see all those little parts, its intimidating for a user looking not to tinker.

[demonguy8]

For me lvl 10 has been nothing but a disaster... It all started out with the beta where I got one of the like 15 defective bolts (the bolt pin thing wasnt out far enough) out of the 200 (not really mad seeing as how it was a beta test, and I didnt have money to play until after Id gotten the new bolt). Jump to the present...I use the 0 carrier (the one with no dots or lines if I remember correctly) and can still chop ANY paintball that I shoot.. Never had any problems with the bolt stick from such a small carrier UNTIL the MICT tourney (my fault for not thinking about the fact that the orings probably would react different to barely above freezing weather).. And to top it all off I can barely chrono my gun under 275 with the smallest spring/or the origional spring.. (which wouldnt be problem if I didnt frequent Country Club during the winter where the chrono speed is 250)

Then again I am that guy that LOOKS at an autococker and it goes down.. I think its from that time when i tripped over that black cat breaking a mirror while walking under a ladder. :rolleyes:

[magmonkey]

I have set up 5 mags with lvl 10 and all but one work great ... the other one is a diferent story the gun still chops no matter what the setup on the other hand the other 4 guns are PERFECT

[RetroEclipseMan]

Yeah it sounds like you might possible need to adjust the length of the power-tube piston the on the bolt. I know mine was doing the same thing, no matter what i did it just wouldn't work. I checked the length of the pin and it too long. I decided to just end the gun back to AGD and have them set it all up and do it right and they did say that was the problem. I'm assuming it's working now but haven't gotton to use it since I just got it back.

Try to get a hold of a set of calipers and measure the length of the pin. If I remeber correctly it should be 2.01" long. Havoc, if this is wrong than let me know since I'm not positive.