How would you improve tournament reffing

[ogre55]

A current thread on cheating/Jeremy Salm/the state of tourny paintball got me to thinking. How would you improve the reffing in paintball.

First, let's throw out the simplest improvement that I am sure we can all agree on.

A) More refs.

B) Better trained refs.

C) Better paid refs.

Next, I would like to set some simple groundrules, not to be authoritarian, but to keep things from getting out of hand. Let us assume that we have a large NPPL style tournament with multiple fields (speed/hyper/sup'air, etc.)

I would propose first that the standard amount of reffs for any tounrny should be 1/2 the number of player on the field. So that if we are playing a 10 man, there would be 10 refs on the field. For 3/5/7 man (or any odd number configuration) there would be an additional ref added. So in a 3 man there would be 4 refs on the field.

There would be two more refs on the field, each assigned to one of the dead zones, in order to make sure that eliminated players do not do anything untoward.

Finally, and this will be my most contoversial proposal, each corner of the field would have a tower with another ref on each tower. These refs will have a bird's eye view of the field and they will be given some sort of binoculars to monitor the games more closely.

All the refs will be able to communicate with each other and they will all be assigned numbers on their jerseys, which will allow a ref at the edge/corner of the field to communicate with refs on the field.

On top of all the other advantages this setup would allow, I think it would drastically reduce cheating if players knew that there 2-4 refs with a birds eye view and binoculars able to spot any and all infractions.

Ogre

[Creative Mayhem]

I believe you're on the right track Ogre. Something does need to be done about the cheating going on in the "Pro Divisions" I think better placement of refs and stricter policies towards cheating need to be enacted.


C Mayhem

[Shail]

I agree on your thought of better refs, theres some areas in which there could be improvements, but for 3 man tourneys, there should be five or six refs. I ve played many tourneys in which a opponent got away with cheating after i shot him, because there was only 4 refs. You need a ref for each person so theres always someone watching the player.

[Jonesie]

I like your ideas, Ogre. There definately needs to be more refs on the field. They also need to be more unbiased. I seem to recall hearing about refs' bias on the pro level.

That's going to be a hard thing to accomplish on the amature ranks.

Jonesie

[cledford]

I really like the tower suggestion. I think Xball is on track there.

I also think since we're going to a more "TV friendly" style of play that paintball should more resemble football in 3 respects.

1. Dynamic play must be required. Within certain periods of time teams must reach a new position on the field - they may still utilize cover but must reach a certain "yard line" every few minutes (based on an audible alert) or be penalized. There could be an allowance for one team to defend and one to attack - then they switch. Point could be based on number of eliminations and subtracted for time used and PENALTIES.

2. This would allow penalties to directly affect the whole team. If one guy goofed or cheated the whole team would feel the immediate impact.

3. This would allow eliminated players to be "recycled" back into the game - making the need to cheat less important as the penalty for getting caught would out weigh the penalty for temporary being eliminated.

Now the above don't answer your question directly - so here is something more useful for today's style of play. Have video cameras in the towers and possibly on the sidelines - they don't have to be expensive just there. teams can challenge cheaters and calls at the end of the game. Like football make it a gamble with serious consequences to prevent abusing the system. If your challenge is upheld, points can be changed/added/awarded. If overruled - you forfeit some points that could be needed for entry into finials. If no determination can be made then it is wash.

You could do more with this, if some is caught being un-sportsman like, they get banned form the rest of that tourney and the team must play short. Same for cheating. Both would be preserved for all refs to see at the filed. If the play protests, then the head judge could be summoned.

Some people might claim "to expensive" - but I don't think so - regular VHS cameras are being thrown away these days. It would take a couple extra seconds at the end of each game to rewind tapes - but the impact would be worth it in my opinion.

Another thought (which would make the cameras more doable) would be to go to a standard field size along with some predetermined bunker patterns. There could be say 10 "official" field layouts. They all wouldn't have to be used all of the time - but could be published so that:

A) Field walking wouldn't need to occur an longer
B) There wouldn't be fields any longer that favor starting from one side or another.
c) Judges could more easily work "zones" and know them.
d) Cameras could be better positioned to view known "hot spots" or problem areas - or just placed for maximum efficiency.
e) Players could benefit by setting up "world cup class" fields anywhere and would greatly even the playing field. Football, baseball, soccer and basketball all have regulation filed sizes - why shouldn't paintball?

People are going to scream "to much cost" but the cameras would be a one time investment and for god's sake - how much do these tourneys rake in? I'd say tons of cash. So it's about time they started be reffed in a consistent, professional manner.

-Calvin

[Quiet]

Make it so refs can't ref a game when they have friends playing. It's a pet peeve of mine.

[ogre55]

I really like the tower suggestion. I think Xball is on track there.


Is the tower in X-Ball used for refs or for the announcers?



Have video cameras in the towers and possibly on the sidelines - they don't have to be expensive just there. teams can challenge cheaters and calls at the end of the game. Like football make it a gamble with serious consequences to prevent abusing the system. If your challenge is upheld, points can be changed/added/awarded. If overruled - you forfeit some points that could be needed for entry into finials. If no determination can be made then it is wash.


I thought of video cameras but I figure they are just a bit too expensive. Unlike the NFL, we do not have the nearly ifinite amount of money to spend. I figure a few eagle eyes refs should make things much more honest. Of course, the infractions must be enforced, but that is another issue.

Another problem with fixed unmanned cameras is that one is never sure of whether the cameras caught the infraction or not. Thus what you have is the whole tourney being stopped while all the game film in all the cameras is reviewed. And you think we have sceduling problems now.

However, if you provided the refs in the towers with small cameras with zoom lenses, this would be excellant. Now if someone on the field protests a call, you can have one of the off-field reffs run back the footage. Also, you have much more cool game film for everyone to see.



You could do more with this, if some is caught being un-sportsman like, they get banned form the rest of that tourney and the team must play short. Same for cheating. Both would be preserved for all refs to see at the filed. If the play protests, then the head judge could be summoned.


This is a great idea. Make it akin to a hockey penelty with a team having to play short for a game, or part of a game because one of their players cheated.



Some people might claim "to expensive" - but I don't think so - regular VHS cameras are being thrown away these days. It would take a couple extra seconds at the end of each game to rewind tapes - but the impact would be worth it in my opinion.


As long as the cameras are manned there should be little to no problem with even lower grade recordings. Although $500-$1000 digital cameras would be most excellant.



Another thought (which would make the cameras more doable) would be to go to a standard field size along with some predetermined bunker patterns. There could be say 10 "official" field layouts. They all wouldn't have to be used all of the time - but could be published so that:

A) Field walking wouldn't need to occur an longer
B) There wouldn't be fields any longer that favor starting from one side or another.
c) Judges could more easily work "zones" and know them.
d) Cameras could be better positioned to view known "hot spots" or problem areas - or just placed for maximum efficiency.
e) Players could benefit by setting up "world cup class" fields anywhere and would greatly even the playing field. Football, baseball, soccer and basketball all have regulation filed sizes - why shouldn't paintball?


While this is getting away from the original nature of the thread, I agree with you on this idea.



People are going to scream "to much cost" but the cameras would be a one time investment and for god's sake - how much do these tourneys rake in? I'd say tons of cash. So it's about time they started be reffed in a consistent, professional manner.


The fact that high end tournaments are not reffed in a consistent professional manner is an indication of just how badly they are organized and how much inprovement is needed. I think that (and again I am going off-topic on my own thread) the PSP has proven themselves to be completely worthless. Maybe the new NPPL series will be an improvement, but I'm not holding my breath.

Ogre

[obsolete898]

One simple improvement would be to have the refs actually know thier rules and inforce them. Sounds simple but by the performance at world I'd say that would improve the reffing situation alot.

More reffs is always a good thing.

[Evil Bob]

Refs would need to be:

1 ) Independant of any organized teams to prevent favoritism in any fashion.
2 ) Well trained.
3 ) Well paid from a pool created partly from sponsorship and manufacturer donations and ticket sales.
4 ) Mature adults who are not afraid to make mistakes and can ref consisantly from tourny to tourny.

Rules would need to be:

1 ) Zero tolerance for infractions. Wiping should carry an extremely severe penalty like immediate expulsion of the entire team from the tournament. Cheating needs to be treated so harshly that no one is willing to risk the punishment to cheat.
2 ) Simplified. Right now the NPPL rules read like a instruction manual for building a Massaratti, overly complicated and nit picking. Simplify the rules so that there are NO GRAY AREAS. Too many teams willfully tread the GRAY AREAS of rules and take unfair advantage of them.
3 ) Standardized. The rules change from tourny to tourny, even drasticly so every tourny you attend you need to do some serious studying. If all tournies used the same exact standardized rules (common sense) enforcing them would be a hell of alot easier on the refs as there would be no special circumstances or new and improved gray areas with each and every tournament.

-Evil Bob

[ogre55]

Evil Bob:

I in no way want to belittle your post as I agree with most of it, but all the things you cite as needing improvement, can be up in one word, PROFESSIONALISM. It is what is required if the sport, and we as player, will ever be taken seriously, and it is what we lack in abundance at the professional tournament level.

Despite all the glitz and tits in the big tournaments, the games themselve are run like amatuer hour with poorly trained, overworked, underpaid, and biased refs.

Tournaments are complemented in paintball publications when the fall less then two hours behind schedule. Do you know how often other, televised, professional sports events are delayed? I don't think I even have to answer that question, but except for rain delays in baseball, NEVER. Paintball professional tournaments have less forethought, planning and follow through than your average little league game.

I'm not bitter about this state of affairs, mind you, just annoyed.

Ogre

[Evil Bob]

I agree 100% ogre, the only way this will happen and paintball will progress into a major sport is when the big manufacturers and promoters get their act together and dump some serious money into cleaning up their pathetic act.

If we could get all the big names to put something back into the sport (Brass Eagle, PMI, Kingman, RP Sherer, Diablo, Dye, and any other big producer/manufacturer) and get very serious about improving professionalism, we'd see some amazing things come about.

A good place for these giants to start is to get their collective heads together and go spend some time on the Millenium circuit in Europe and see what a class act presentation the Europeans are putting on (they're definitely doing it right over there). Once they have a clue on how tournies should be run, then they should create their own super series including a full time reffing staff made up of mature individuals with zero ties to any professional team who can do the job right, just like football, baseball, basketball, etc. Pay these guys well to do the job and the sport justice.

The fix is time and coordination by those with the resources to make a difference. Until that happens, we'll always be a third rate xtreme sport that people in general won't take serious.

-Evil Bob

[ogre55]

I don't even know if the Millenium Circuit is that much better. Sure they use cooler venues (soccer stadiums), but as for a better class of play, I don't know.

Does the Millenium have a better class of play? I don't think so and for two reasons.

I beleive that if the europeans tournaments were that much better run, at least from a quality/cleanliness of play aspect, they would be all over the boards, telling us about it. (I invite AOers who play Millenium to chime in on this).

American teams that compete in Millenium events do well. This would suggest to me that refs at Millenium events are as ineffectual as our own home grown variety.

I wish I were wrong.

Ogre

[Evil Bob]

The Europeans put on a much better show in both choice of venues, prizes, physical layouts, and visitor friendliness, the clown that runs world cup over here could learn a thing or two about how to layout a venue.

Reffing has been hit or miss in all the tournies I've been to, both here and over seas. Some fields are reffed better then others. Some refs looked like they wanted to be a million other places then where they were.

Once the big guns get a clue on what a tourny should run like, then they need to put together a top notch reffing team and come up with a consistant tourny that shows the world that they can be taken seriously instead of the current joke they are.

-Evil Bob