Punisher is the daddy

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?threadid=156406

[cphilip]

Oh goody! Someone has made another ugly brick out of a block of Aluminum...How nice for him... :rolleyes:

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

Oh dear smart parts has made a tube lets slam them for it and a penis for a foregrip! I dont give a damn how it looks, its a proto.If you read(which i wanted to emphasize) the ram works sorta like a level 10 and not some other electro which is really cool, and to think I used to have respect for some mods for their sense:rolleyes:

and usually when you are sarcastic you end with a:) or a :D. :rolleyes: usually means, well who gives a *edit* Respect the rules while you are at it...Army so if he was being sarcastic my bad:rolleyes:

[yeahthatsme]

dang dude calm down, its phil, hes gonna be sarcastic

anyways, it just looks like another bushy to me.... or the stroker(i think thats what its called).....

besides how it looks i like the idea behind the internals.

[HoppysMag]

im not a big fan of punisher... but thats probibly just cause im not much into pointless milling and cosmetic changes... i will say that his custom pump handles for phantoms are nice... but that gun is fugly

[cphilip]

I do not realy give a darn if you like my opinion or not. Looks like every other one of em to me. Sorry I didn't gush all over it for you to make you feel better. I cannot. I think its ugly. Plenty of prototypes end up in the trash. I do not gush over something just cause its new.

I gonna give you a warning for that curse filter violation.

I am sarcasticly honest here not sarcasticly funny. I do not like it so it does not get a smiley. It gets a rolleye's.

[WhyIsItUpsideDown?]

Ok I guess the Im the only one who thinks its cool. Think, a ram that acts like LX? If you can adapt this to guns that uses rams well heck a whole lot of guns will have anti-chopping capabilities except a ace. And yeah it looks like crap, its a proto. Like sluggos, they just look like a tube until you put the finishing touches on stuff:rolleyes:

Oh ok warning next time Ill put a "fill in with four a letter word" to make it fun like butt or how bout crap or maybe book oh yes who gives a wang?:D

[cphilip]

Ok well I will admit some of the technical things are kinda cool about it. But I cannot deal with the entire package so...well at least there is something I can admit is interesting about it. Fair enough? ;)

[cphilip]

Ok well...or how about just handling critism like a Man and not doing it all together?

[Kevmaster]

Im a huge fan of Punisher and his work. I think he does graet stuff with guns and love that marker. The simplicity of a bushy as always apealed to me and I think its a great design

[dansim]

you know what it has potential for looks but i wanna see you phil build a gun from scratch let us see what that looks like:rolleyes:

[cphilip]

Built many of em Dansim. All Mags and all looked pretty.

How many you built?

I do not like the looks of it. Sorry that disturbes you. I can't help it. I just do not like it.

[Jonno06]

looks like a shocker...

its not very original...

he said its set up like a bushy..and it looks like a shorty shocker...psh..

[luke]

I can see it now, in a year everyone will be “dissing” AGD about how they don’t do anything for paintball, but everyone will own a gun with an “anti chop” bolt!
:rolleyes:

[Ov3rmind]

I really like it myself. He took a tried and true design, and improved upon it (solenoid in frame, lvl 10ish anti chop design). It also looks very tiny, and would be comfy to hold in my hands.

looks like a shocker...

its not very original...
How, a Shocker is like 3X as big as that. There's not even milling and ano for comparison. SP foregrips and trigger frames also tend to look way different.

And to all the rest of you slamming the gun: You try and come up with your own design, test it, and see how well it stacks up to everything else. So many of you fail to realize it's not even milled or anoed yet, and you just go ahead and say how ugly it looks (that's not even the final trigger frame, just one he threw on their from his parts box).

[Brak]

man stop being a jerk, he built a gun out of a solid block of aluminum, using his own ideas for the gun itself. are you saying you built a mag from a solid block of metal, and designed the internals? no, i dont think so

[shartley]

I think some folks are taking this WAY too seriously.

You mean someone who has made it their BUSINESS to make customized paintball markers has made a marker using parts currently available on the market in a way that is custom? And he made his own body for it that looks like a brick? And some folks want to act like no one is suppose to not be blown away by this? We are all suppose to go “Wow! That is WONDERFUL!”?

Come on….. I will give him credit for making a marker. I couldn’t so that at this point. However, it is also not my profession. But I will also say it is damn ugly. And I don’t need to be able to MAKE a marker to know that. ;)

And I don’t think Phil was saying that it would ALWAYS be ugly (although it just might end up being so), but folks shouldn’t come here and say that others can’t say it is ugly now because it is not “finished”. Punisher Customs posted the picture for all to see. It is unfinished. But it is still ugly to many people. Deal with it. ;) It is also not the end of the world.

[cphilip]

Gee seems like people all the sudden want only verification and can't stand anything but. You post something up only to have someone fawn all over it. When it doesn't go your way you get personal.

And where in the world does it say if you have not done the same exact thing yourself you can't have an opinion on it? If that was the case you guys couldn't "like" it either.

Ov3mind, I am not slamming it. Just do not like it. You have not seen slamming from me dude. I do not dislike it enough to "slam" it.

Brak, calling someone a jerk for his particular tastes is cetainly being one. Shame on you for your lack of tolerance.


Fact is I just don't like it. I will probably not like it when he finishes it. I have never liked those stacked tubes like Bushy's and such and don't think he can ever get it to where I would like it.

I am indeed currently working on some stuff but not all of it will be from scratch nor as involved as he is getting in that one. But then again I realy could care less to receive your comments on them as I am doing them for me. Bound to be some that think they are ugly and thats fine with me. I could care less.

All of you who seem to think if you have not done the same you cannot have an oppionion probably have not done a darn thing either. It's interesting how upset you are getting about someone elses opinion. I think your insecurities and hostilies are misdirected. Not only has there been too much cursing and name calling because you are upset I do not like it but at some point its passed the state of normal. I suggest you get over it.

[Timmee]

The trigger frame was originally from the Joker (a stacked tube blowback marker). The body was from an extrusion that was originally slated to be a PGP rebody (IIRC). I can't wait to see how Punisher finishes this marker up.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

OK You're all wrong!!!!

It looks like an epic.

[thei3ug]

You're missing the point of this:
The ram was a proof of concept based on discussions over a year ago at the Guild.

It has nothing to do with coming up with a new Shocker, Impulse, AutoWhatsit.

The discussion (with many accompanied images) was focused on a variable force ram that would not slow down cycle speed of an autococker, angel, impulse... anything that uses a ram to close a breech. You're right, similar in affect to a paintball to lvl 10.

But when you roll your eyes about the outside body, the design of the marker, or the fact that his "ability" as a paintball customizer has made this project unexceptional...

you've missed the point.

[cphilip]

No... you missed "MY" point. No matter how you package all the cool internal stuff I will not buy it because of "the looks". I am "shallow" that way. :( ;) I hate it but I am. I cannot help it.

Another confession from me: I do not like the looks of a Mag without a site rail. Never have. I do not care what weight it adds I just cannot tolerate the looks without that site rail. And the only one without a seperate site rail I like is the new C&C X mag body and it has a sort of one milled into it. So I like it alright. But I do not like the looks of the non C&C at all. I would not buy one of them. No matter how cool the internals are.

But again all this is just me. You have a right to like what you want.

[wyn1370]

it's ok uncle phil, we still love ya (most of us anyway)

[cphilip]

Well it's just the way I am is all. However I know for a fact there are many more out there like me that cannot get passed the looks of some things. And are too ashamed of that fact to "tell it like it is". So what the heck! I am being honest about it... So sue me!

Wait!... don't! :( :D

[shartley]

Don’t feel bad Phil… I am the same way. :D

The things I buy tend to get the same thought process as I have had for women….. No matter how “nice” they are “inside”, if I don’t like simply looking at them, they are not for me. This also applies to looking good as well though…. No matter how good they look outside, if they are not filled with quality, I don’t like them either. ;)

There has to be a combination of the two… but I will not, nor can not, ignore either part. And if one of the two is just outside what I consider “acceptable”, no matter how outstanding the other part is, I will not get it. :D

[cphilip]

Yea! you got it! It's gotta have both. I can compromise but cannot give all of one thing up for all of the other. Thats it exactly Sam.

[Thordic]

Well I for one think its cool. It looks ok, but its a proto, I don't expect it to be milled and anno'd.

Phil, isn't AO supposed to be about innovation and the acceptance of new ideas and not holding to old stereotypes and such?

Here we are seeing a DIRECT result of AGD pushing paintball technology and it having an effect on the rest of paintball, and all you can say is its a POS? What happened to the acceptance of new ideas?

Also, I hardly think assembling a mag from parts is anywhere near equal to milling out your own body and assembling a never-before used duel-stage ram assembly and then wiring up electronics to control it all. Whether you do it for a living or not its still impressive.

I always liked the fact that AO promoted thinking outside the box, I'm a little dissapointed to see one of our moderators slamming new innovations.

[cphilip]

Open to new ideas? AO maybe Thord... and I not speaking for AO. I speaking for what Phil likes and doesn't like...

The concept of a two speed bolt/action etc. I like but I do not consider that exactly all new...I do admire they fact that he is doing it in a different marker. Never said I didn't. Problem I have is "Which" marker he chose to do it in. The package is not going to attract me is all.

If we were not open to new ideas, threads like this would not even be allowed on here. It's a testament to that fact that it even exists.

But not all of us can get past the glitter sometimes to look at the possibilities of the "guts". Unfortuately that is a intregal part of marketing too. "looks are important". Maybe too important? I dunno...I want both! :)

[cphilip]

When did I slam the "innovations" of it?

And when did Moderators give up their rights to have opinions on such as this?

On your two complete points in your post you are in error. I am a little disappointed to see members not read the whole post and take something totaly out of context...and to wish to impose gag orders on Moderators as to what they like and do not like.

[Thordic]

For one, as a moderator you represent AO, whether you like it or not. If you went into another forum and started wreaking havoc, it would come back to look poorly not just on yourself but on this site as well. If a member of lesser standing did that, it wouldn't quite reflect back the same.

As for slamming the innovation, the proto is innovative, and you belittled the proto.

[cphilip]

Hogwash! I never went anywhere else. He brought it here. And I said up front I do not like the looks. And I still do not. And I have a right to say that.

added on edit: read anything you want into my opinions. It's fine with me. I do not intend to justify them any further. I guess my opinions are not welcome on this Forum. End of my involvment with that.

[dansim]

ive built 4 mags actually, but thats different didnt he make all the component(or the majority) himself he didnt buy them from a store and stick em together like that...mags arent hard to build as long as you have all teh pieces
:D

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by cphilip
Gee seems like people all the sudden want only verification and can't stand anything but. You post something up only to have someone fawn all over it. When it doesn't go your way you get personal.


I think the word you were looking for is Validation ! Jeez can't you just validate us all Uncle Phil and make us feel important!;) :p

[Army]

To make a marker that doesn't chop is not all that innovative, look at all the braggarts and their LP 'Cockers that will stop on a ball. Granted, Punisher went about it in a new way, but the results are the same. Not to mention, that he not only compares it to LX, but intended it to react the same...it's not a better mousetrap.

As for milling out a block of Aluminum into a stack tube design...whoopee. The reason the stack tube is so prevelent in our sport, is that it is the easiest design to make on a wide variety of machinery, and the one that works for so many different styles of internals. Nothing new or innovative here.

A large block of metal, regardless of fancy milling artwork and dazzling colors, is still a big brick on top of a frame.

That's my opinion too, and I'm entitled to it:rolleyes:

[The Frymarker]

Well I was always taught if you don't have anything nice to say it is better off left unsaid.

Now with this in mind I have to say this, I have to hand the Punisher credit. He made something with his own hands, regardless if it works, if it is ugly, if it is too heavy, it is some from which his hands he created and for that I give him kudos. He said he spent months working on it, that is months of thought, work, testing.

Sure anyone can sit back and bash it or give it credit, but only he knows the spoils of his time and creativity.

A lot of people didn't like the Mona Lisa either, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I understand also what it is liked to have someone bash your work, it hurts because it becomes a part of you, and I vowed I would never bash anyone's work.

To me his work shows a valiant effort and I applaud.:D

[BTAutoMag]

well since the new shocker looks like a mag, something had to look like a brick

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

I think people need a reality check or something.

Bashing: It's a piece of crap. I wouldn't spend 20 bucks to buy that thing. Don't get that, it's garbage. All it does is chop paint(yeah old school mag bashing).

opinion: I don't like it, it's ugly.

AO: Didn't see anywhere in the rules that you weren't allowed to state your opinion regardless of moderator status.

My opinion: It's great that someone can come up with a design for a new gun. Yay. I'll stick with my mags, I'll like them better. Kinda to early to judge if it's ugly or not. It could look good. I don't mind stacked tube designs. I think the 6th gen bushies with the x milling look good. Oh well, i guess that's just me.

Some people just take things seriously. By your logic, why don't you stop bashing people for stating their opinions. If someone did it to most of you, you'd bug. "They're trying to censor my opinion" "I have freedom of speach, but they keep deleting what i say", blah blah blah. People just need to chill.:cool:

[shartley]

Semantics, maybe, but I don’t happen to think that stating dislike for something, or saying anything but “nice” things about something constitutes “bashing” in itself. If someone does not like the color blue, and they state so, is that bashing the color blue? If someone thinks something is ugly and states so, is that bashing? I don’t think so.

I happen to personally think that you can say you dislike something without bashing it.

Sure, it is nice to live your life by the saying “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.”, but in today’s world that would lead to a pretty quiet place… OR conversations filled with bold face lies. And AO has always been a place to discuss things, not just the good, but ALL opinions and views.

We have also told Tom when we did not like things AGD has done. Should Punnisher Customs be any different? Do we all need to like every product anyone puts out? And if we don’t like something, should we keep quiet about it, or say so in a rational and mature manner?

I think getting so Politically Correct as to never say something that someone might find offensive, might not agree with, or may not be in line with a “positive” stance, is the problem with today's society in general. I am not saying that everyone should just spout whatever comes to the top of their head with no regard for others, but come on folks, just saying you don’t like something is not a crime. Nor is it bashing. It is one thing saying you don’t like something, it is another being hurtful about it…. and to me, that is what distinguishes things.

[RamboPreacher]

Originally posted by The Frymarker
Well I was always taught if you don't have anything nice to say it is better off left unsaid.

Now with this in mind I have to say this, I have to hand the Punisher credit. He made something with his own hands, regardless if it works, if it is ugly, if it is too heavy, it is some from which his hands he created and for that I give him kudos. He said he spent months working on it, that is months of thought, work, testing.

Sure anyone can sit back and bash it or give it credit, but only he knows the spoils of his time and creativity.

A lot of people didn't like the Mona Lisa either, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I understand also what it is liked to have someone bash your work, it hurts because it becomes a part of you, and I vowed I would never bash anyone's work.

To me his work shows a valiant effort and I applaud.:D couldn't have said it better. I have had some work done by punisher and other than lack of communication now and again (he seems to be hit with extremely volitile viri more often than others), I think he does great work. Here is the challenge that he has for himself (as I see it). One of the things he says is that he takes on projects that others say can't or won't do. he builds and creats with his own gear and time. and he has a certain amount of satisfaction for doing his work, his way, adn the way he wants to.

I am no airsmith and if I wnat somethign done, I have to get folks like him to do it for me and there are extrememly few that will discuss with me what I want done and help me get to teh result I want. (though I have found that the Frymarker is right there as well as far as projects go, but that is another topic, left for later)

I don't always agree with him or his ways or his communications. I do have a tremendous respect for his work, however. When I first saw that proto on teh guild some time ago; of course the first thing I thought of was that it was just another bushy. then I saw that he hadn't actually copied it, but rather created a new marker. I became more impressed.

It is just a prototype and no matter what I think of JAAC's, JABB's, JAE's and even JAAM's - he has made somethign wiht his own hands, and I only wish I could do that. I laud his effort!

[Thordic]

I never said Phil wasn't entitled to his opinion, I just said his actions and words reflect back upon AO.

If you go back and read his messages over again, he came across as quite a bit more harsh than was needed to convey his opinion. There's a difference between stating your opinion and being harsh, sorry if I'm the only one who sees that distinction. It's often what starts arguements with Sam.

[mykroft]

cphilip:

Don't diss the looks until you've seen one done up. This is a prototype, it ain't never going to be pretty, it ain't meant to be pretty. When Punisher's done a production model, it'll likely be much prettier (And look different).

And Phantom Thread's?? Hehehe.

[The Frymarker]

Okay let me rephrase bash, for opinion.

Yes it is nice to have an opinion but I am sorry that is the way I was brought up, you never open up your mouth if it is something you will regret later.

I also consider people to be a form of artwork. A baby takes nine months to complete until birth. Just as anything you make with your hands, mind and soul.

Would you want someone to say your baby is ugly....um no.

That is why people refer to their pet projects as their "baby". I would never judge unless I wanted to be judged.

Just another food for thought.

[WARPED1]

EM1 springs to mind for me,but I like that type of design.

[shartley]

Originally posted by The Frymarker
Okay let me rephrase bash, for opinion.

Yes it is nice to have an opinion but I am sorry that is the way I was brought up, you never open up your mouth if it is something you will regret later.

I also consider people to be a form of artwork. A baby takes nine months to complete until birth. Just as anything you make with your hands, mind and soul.

Would you want someone to say your baby is ugly....um no.

That is why people refer to their pet projects as their "baby". I would never judge unless I wanted to be judged.

Just another food for thought.
HeeHee you are too easy Heather. ;)

Children are not the same as artwork, products, or anything else… no matter how close of an analogy is made. We often attribute human type terms and names to these other things, but that does not make them the same. And no, I am sure most folks would not want their CHILD called ugly… but if people actually think of their “work” as their “children” in a literal sense, they have some other issues to deal with besides producing ugly work or not. ;)

You said you would never judge unless you wanted to be judged….. but you DID judge. Sorry. If you make a positive analysis of someone’s work, art, or whatever, you DID judge it, but chose to find it on the more positive side as opposed to negative. We will always judge things, like it or not.

None of us will always make things that everyone likes or finds “pretty”, “attractive”, “special”, etc. Such is life. It is however, how we deal with other people’s comments that sets us apart…. not whether everyone likes what we do all the time, or if folks say they don’t like something.

Just a little more food for thought. ;)

[The Frymarker]

I'm too easy, well your too predicatable.



Shartley I am not going to argue analytical or physcologial when I don't have a degree in either.

I do know this that whenever there is a negative you are always there.

This ladies and gentlemen is where the A personalities are separated with the b.

I try not to have any negative to say....why because who really wants to hear it.

I also don't like to argue...so I'll leave with that

[shartley]

Originally posted by The Frymarker
I'm too easy, well your too predicatable.

Shartley I am not going to argue analytical or physcologial when I don't have a degree in either.

I do know this that whenever there is a negative you are always there.

This ladies and gentlemen is where the A personalities are separated with the b.

I try not to have any negative to say....why because who really wants to hear it.

I also don't like to argue...so I'll leave with that
And if you look, I am also there when there is a positive as well… I could not be the second highest poster on AO without being in almost every type of thread. :D But like most, it seems that you want to only see the negative? ;)

Predictable…. I would hope so. :D

And I know a bit about A personalities and Bs as well… and guess what? Neither is “better” than the other, and the world works because there ARE differences in personalities and character traits…. as well as opinions. And those who know me, know that what you see online is not always what you think it is. ;)

I will not however, sit back and act all “holy” and “good” when I am not… not by a long shot. ;) And I don’t think that just by saying you don’t like something, or saying something someone else may think is not “positive” makes you a bad person. I prefer honesty, even when “negative” over silence or fake sugar coated suck-up. But also remember that I said that there is a difference between being honest and potentially conceived as negative, and being hurtful.

Passive aggressive is just as bad as full blown aggression. And one might suggest that if someone does not want to argue, or does not like to, that they don’t do it. :) I am not upset, but in fact find this a bit comical.

[halB]

Originally posted by cphilip
I do not realy give a darn if you like my opinion or not. Looks like every other one of em to me. Sorry I didn't gush all over it for you to make you feel better. I cannot. I think its ugly. Plenty of prototypes end up in the trash. I do not gush over something just cause its new.

I gonna give you a warning for that curse filter violation.

I am sarcasticly honest here not sarcasticly funny. I do not like it so it does not get a smiley. It gets a rolleye's.

i guess ull never really know the true join of building something for urself using ur own hands. sigh.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by halB


i guess ull never really know the true join of building something for urself using ur own hands. sigh.

And you've built what?:confused:

Legos and science projects don't count.

Before you ask, I've built a deck, shed, restored a 1976 Triumph, etc..... I've also built quite a career.

As for Uncle Phil, well ask the Clemson Paintball team about their field? Also ask CPhil about his career. Plus he earned a spot here as a moderator.

What in your life experience gives you leave to question someone else?

[Riotz]

Originally posted by shartley
Children are not the same as artwork, products, or anything else… no matter how close of an analogy is made. We often attribute human type terms and names to these other things, but that does not make them the same. And no, I am sure most folks would not want their CHILD called ugly… but if people actually think of their “work” as their “children” in a literal sense, they have some other issues to deal with besides producing ugly work or not.

Geez shartley, I can't believe how much you twist words around to try and make a point. You are a man of art. Yu design things from scratch. You make wooden grips and other things with your hands. Are you saying you never once called something your "baby"? You know damn well what she meant and to take it "literally", you would have to be a complete moron. Not you, but the person who does. (I have to be specific here so things don't get misinterpreted) :p

If you spent countless hours / days creating something, you would treasure it almost as much as your own child. I said almost as much, not as much as or more then. So before you try to twist that, just realize what I said. ;)

However, I also believe criticism is important. Because if you don't know what you are doing wrong or what people don't like, how can one improve...


Added on edit:

some MORE food for thought... ;)