Is the Angel's day past???

[Puddleglum]

Things just don't seem to be doing so well for WDP. I know that they have introduced the IR3, but the resale value for Angels has really dropped. Also their bottom line marker now sells for a mere $875. I was just wondering if people out there are thinking the Angel's day has come and gone.

I mean they are getting some real competition from AGD, AKA, Bob Long, etc. The Viking is probably the most efficient marker on the planet. The E-Mag gets the honors for speed, and Intimidators and Impulses are selling like hotcakes.
How about some opinions. What do you fella's think???

[Jonesie]

I have to agree. With the low-cost electros like the Imp, I think a lot of people think they can get Angel-like performance for a fraction of the cost. (Not that the Imp and Angel are similar in performance, I wouldn't know, really :confused:).

I don't think the Angel is going anywhere, however. The Pros still like them, and there are a million out there, so I wouldn't expect them to go quietly... :)

Later ~ Jonesie

[sarpadian]

I don't think that the Angel's day has passed, they are just really feeling the heat of competition. Like you said there are several other high end electronic markers on the market that are the same or very near the same quality as the Angel. I know a lot of people that would still swear that they are bar-none the best marker out there. But then again you will find that with every well made marker.

[kenshinkandon]

Angels aren't going anywhere, they are tried and tested in tourament after tourament. The only difference now is that players have a choice in high end electronic markers.

Before you didn't have much of a choice now it's easier and cheaper to go electric compared to prior years and as technology grows so won't WDP and the rest of there new found competition. In fact I thinks it's nice to see some good competition for WDP, this will only push them harder in designing new bigger and better things for paintball.

WDP will be a leader paintball technology for a while I don't see them going anywhere but foward.

[AGD]

Well I think they suffered from doing everything right. No one is better at marketing, or coming out with cool new looks. I think they did such a good job they saturated their own market. Heck, EVERYONE has or had an Angel.

AGD

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by AGD
Well I think they suffered from doing everything right. No one is better at marketing, or coming out with cool new looks. I think they did such a good job they saturated their own market. Heck, EVERYONE has or had an Angel.

AGD

And you thought you knew NOTHING about marketing, Tom! ;)

Jonesie

[Puddleglum]

Well I think they suffered from doing everything right. No one is better at marketing, or coming out with cool new looks. I think they did such a good job they saturated their own market.

I think that is a great point. I hate to say it, but I think the same thing may have happened to AGD back in the day. I mean EVERYONE played with a Mag, and everyone who was someone played with them. It was kinda like their time passed. And it is just now that they are really hitting it big again. I think WDP may go through the same slump.

[JEDI]

Yeah, I dont think they've passed, as much as their spotlight has dimmed under all the other markers out there. They're still very good guns, but just not the only choice any more. Their Hype has died down.

[Mossman]

Nah...it aint over. People still buy ir3s.....that's 1300-1600 bucks for a prettier angel that's identical to a 3 year old LCD besides milling, ACE, and the frame.

While people buy 2k2 timmies and adrenaline imps, those are 1000 dollar guns, not 1500. The fact that people still buy ir3's, and the huge # of LCD's in circulation means WDP isnt dying in this era.

Also, angels are great guns, I gotta say. In my experience they've been very consistant, low kick, and built like a tank. Compare a 4 year old LED to a brand new Imp in fit and finish and the angel feels like a brick, (not weight wise...solidness wise).

If i'm finally content with my micro E on the way I might sell everything and pick up a fugly black LED for backup.

I'll end this meaningless post by saying...Silver to blue fade Xmag please!

[WARPED1]

No,there will ALWAYS be a place for the Angel.The base model dropped in price because the new model(IR3)came out,no other reason.Hell I got my 2k LCD,used,for $500.
You'll see the same thing in E-Mags I bet too,if the X-Mag ever goes into the mainstream production.

[Halliday]

I would love to see a cheaper, no-frills Angel. No temp, no IR real-time geo-sync comm system. I do like the LCD thou :)

[Evil Bob]

The answer is "commodity market". Once kingman and others started pumping out low end electros that can shoot almost as fast and are 1/3 the cost, the high end market starts to suffer. They had the market all to theirselves for a few years, that's all changed now with all the electros on the market today.

-Evil Bob

[Ityl]

a lot of those silly frills options usually don't cost any extra.

[WARPED1]

But without the frills,I bet they could charge less.Of course half the reason Angels cost so much is that I guess materials ans machines are not as plentiful?I heard something like that...........

[E==Mag MAN]

They are a little more expensive because there company is based in england.

[WARPED1]

That's what I thought.:)

[*ArKfEaR*]

Just wait till the 03 Shocker comes out , and the nerve.

With the Shocker running at only about 700 with about the same stats as the nerve (just more efficient, lower pressure, and faster) they are going to be in the drainage.

But they still are good guns, I dont considered AGD a threat, why cause they dont like to market there products ;).

Once they do then sure but as of now with their production of one Extreme Emag every two years they wont be doing so hot. :rolleyes: :D

[mag-hatter]

Originally posted by Puddleglum
Things just don't seem to be doing so well for WDP. I know that they have introduced the IR3, but the resale value for Angels has really dropped. Also their bottom line marker now sells for a mere $875. I was just wondering if people out there are thinking the Angel's day has come and gone.

I mean they are getting some real competition from AGD, AKA, Bob Long, etc. The Viking is probably the most efficient marker on the planet. The E-Mag gets the honors for speed, and Intimidators and Impulses are selling like hotcakes.
How about some opinions. What do you fella's think???

sure hope their day has gone so i can get my hands on one for cheap :p :p :p :p

[magsRus]

I triple dog dare you to put this in the angel forum

[CRog075]

Originally posted by magsRus
I triple dog dare you to put this in the angel forum


This is my favorite quote from the Feb. 2003 APG from WDP:

"It's not that all the teeams play with Angels, it's just that the ones that do, finish higher than the ones that don't....."

I love that quote :D

[Trigger_Happy]

"Is the Angel's day past???"

If by "past" you mean that people no longer have stars in their eyes, then yes, the Angel's day is long gone! It used to be that everybody knew that the Angel was king. They were sought after, they were the "best", and they were expensive enough to keep them semi rare.

Now, everybody has bought one, owned one, used one for a bit, and realized that they are nice, but not God's gift to mankind.

They will never die, but my opinion of angels these days is that they aren't faster than others, they aren't cheap, and they aren't half as pretty as an X-mag, why bother?

[Mr. T!]

Well, the angel is as dead as the timmy or imp for that matter. I have owned both a bushmaster, than an angel, traded the angel for and emag and then sold the emag so i can buy another angel, an IR3. The angel is not done because the angel is just about the best marker on the market. I am willing to spend the 1200-1400 dollars on one because i belive they are the best guns on the market. Why don't i buy an adrenalin Imp or a dragon timmy with that large chunk of change? Because both guns are inferior to the angel, IMO. Why? Timmies feel cheap and aren't too special, and Imps, well, let's just say they are imps. I think WDP has done some of the best work in terms of paintball guns in the industry, in terms of the evolution of their angels.
Thier re-sale value isn't that bad, usualy a gun loses about 100-200 the second it is out of the box, plus, it is the internet and you can find better prices online.

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Mr. T!
Well, the angel is as dead as the timmy or imp for that matter. I have owned both a bushmaster, than an angel, traded the angel for and emag and then sold the emag so i can buy another angel, an IR3. The angel is not done because the angel is just about the best marker on the market. I am willing to spend the 1200-1400 dollars on one because i belive they are the best guns on the market. Why don't i buy an adrenalin Imp or a dragon timmy with that large chunk of change? Because both guns are inferior to the angel, IMO. Why? Timmies feel cheap and aren't too special, and Imps, well, let's just say they are imps. I think WDP has done some of the best work in terms of paintball guns in the industry, in terms of the evolution of their angels.
Thier re-sale value isn't that bad, usualy a gun loses about 100-200 the second it is out of the box, plus, it is the internet and you can find better prices online.


You are so right...it almost brings a tear to my eye :( :D

[TigerMan]

Originally posted by Puddleglum
Things just don't seem to be doing so well for WDP. I know that they have introduced the IR3, but the resale value for Angels has really dropped. Also their bottom line marker now sells for a mere $875. I was just wondering if people out there are thinking the Angel's day has come and gone.

I mean they are getting some real competition from AGD, AKA, Bob Long, etc. The Viking is probably the most efficient marker on the planet. The E-Mag gets the honors for speed, and Intimidators and Impulses are selling like hotcakes.
How about some opinions. What do you fella's think???

Now of the other guns you listed, the ones you'll most likely see if you go to a field are an Angel and Impulse. The others just aren't as mainstream with the exception of the Emag. Think about it this way, truthfully how many Intimidators, Emags, and Vikings have you seen at your field? I have seen neither a Viking nor an Intimidator ever. There's probably only a handful of places that sell Vikings, and maybe a few more that sells Timmy's.

Now I'm not just saying this because I own an Angel, but it's just from my personal experiences. And about the price drop, you have complaints markers prices are going down? That's great price is dropping so the paintball player can be introduced to newer things. Now personally, really only a handful of people here on AO actually know what WDP sales are like for the past year. Everyone else most likely has just read fluff that some 15 year old wrote cause he thought he had the "inside source." And we are going to see some bias since this an Automags online group. If all you did was read AO, then you'd think the X-Mag and Emag was the ruling the paintball scene.

[Jack_Dubious]

Originally posted by AGD
Well I think they suffered from doing everything right. No one is better at marketing, or coming out with cool new looks. I think they did such a good job they saturated their own market. Heck, EVERYONE has or had an Angel.

AGD

Ive never owned an Angel....:(


JDub

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

No by any means the angels day hasnt past. Or at least it better not have cause i get my first one tuesday. Its all about brand name. When you think most expensive, yet fastest, lightest, most durable, longest lasting, prettyiest, electro. What do you think of, no spyder oweners is not the e99 its the Angel. Its a brand thing when you tell someone you own a angel you get that kind of WOW expression from them no other company can give u that. Say you go to the local field and there are a bunch of first time 10 year olds playing. All shooting spyder, tippmanns. They ask you what kind of marker you have and u tell them "I have a GZ Timmy that works at 110 psi" there gonna say ok and walk away. But if you say "I own a Angel there gonna go WOW can I see it?" And on the tournament scene the name Angel strikes fear into ever oppents heart believe me I have been on the reciveing end of Angels plenty of time but now I get my chance to dish it out with my new in the words of moss "4 year old fugly led"

[RetroEclipseMan]

I don't think the Angel is going anywhere at this point. Like others have said, the popularity may be going down at this point to many just because of all the other choices out there at better prices. I've never owned one but have played with them and they are very nice guns. In the past year I actually haven't seen to many at the fields I play with compaired to vikings and matrixes. I'm actually glad that all this competition is driving down the price of the angel since I'm looking to buy and Ir3 sometime next fall when I get the money.

[cledford]

I would say no - but they are "getting with the program" on cost.

Here is a link from an email I just got from WDP today - they are rehashing the LED and slashing the price below $1000.

Here is the link:

http://www.wdp-paintball.co.uk/lcd03/lcd03text.htm

-Calvin

[CMDane]

Hey Tom, it might be a good idea to post that forum post chart you showed to the guys at the SoCal AO meet. The one with the trends in number of posts for the mid- to hi-end marker manufacturers. With the talk of Angel on their way down, Bushies and Timmy's making their name re-known, etc., perhaps someone can answer your question about it.

Charles

[AutoMaggot]

Owned three Angels... traded each one within two weeks of owning them. Why? Because I need a marker that will reliably pinch paint when shot at high ROFs, and one that is a little more stable in terms of electronics. I've personally fried an Adrenaline board, and throughout our summer series last year, our team suffered three Angel failures in three separate tournaments... all toasted boards. Last time I was home from college (Christmas), the Exhaust Valve in my friend Dark Angel booted the o-ring and was leaking rediculous amounts of air from the breech. This is the same gun that needs you to wrap hand warmers over the grip so that it thinks the temperature is above 60* to begin operating. I'm sorry... but I've seen way too much crap from those.

What do I shoot? I've shot everything in the book... but right now I'm set on the Viking. The ability to shoot off 1900 balls from a 68/45 and pinch every ball is just too much to look away from. It's essentially the same design as an angel... but AKA managed to really perfect it in terms of low-cycling pressure, consistency, and efficiency. It's a HIGH quality product. Essentially, WDP got so big because they pioneerd that nice, compact electronic design... but they were WAY too slow when it came to fine-tuning the mechanics. The reason? They were too busy dicking around with cool modes of fire, temperature readouts, and shot counts. Seriously, the only real functionality you NEED from an LCD is a game timer... anything beyond that is useless.

What do I like about Angels? The trigger... and some of them look downright sexy. But with a similar trigger from AKA, and a ROCK HARD annodizing job that will almost never scratch... I'm still sold on the fact that AKA has taken down WDP.

[TigerMan]

Originally posted by SpongeBobSquarePants
Say you go to the local field and there are a bunch of first time 10 year olds playing. All shooting spyder, tippmanns. They ask you what kind of marker you have and u tell them "I have a GZ Timmy that works at 110 psi" there gonna say ok and walk away. But if you say "I own a Angel there gonna go WOW can I see it?"

This has happened to me every time I've played with my Angel, heck personman can attest to it. Kids run up to me like I'm giving away free paint. :eek: It can be annoying and flattering at times.