Whos is Bill Cookston, and what's he stand for?

[cledford]

Here is a question (attached below) I posted to another thread - but I think the issue is important enough to go ahead and start it's own thread. I want everyone to know I'm not trying to bash Bill Cookston - I don't even know him. I am curious as to his position, why NPPL (which I thought was a "players" league) allows him unilateral (at least it appears) authority to make up rules as he sees fit, what his credentials and experience are, why triggers and other technology that allow us to realize the full potential of our markers seem to be such a concern for him, and if the rampant cheating is as high a priority.

I'm raising this issue because I see his name come up virtually every time there is a question about marker technology but there isn't much else out there about the guy.

-Calvin

[AGD]

I have known Bill personally for over 10 years and he is a good friend of mine. He is actually the best thing that ever happened to the NPPL. His job is so crappy and so stressfull that no one wants to do it. If he ever quit no one would step up to take that job.

EVERYONE complains about his calls but deep down they don't want him to leave because they know he is steadfast and fair. Heck he was the one that banned the RT from one tourney 8 years ago and I agree with what he did (there were a lot of circumstances and we got caught in the crossfire).

When there was the whole issue about Turbo Mode triggers he came to AGD and put the shocker on the gun dyno to really see what it was doing before he made a statement. That right there blew his weekend and he wasn't getting paid a dime.

Bill DOES NOT MAKE THE RULES, he just interprets and enforces them. He does not watch individual games for wiping or infractions, he only handles the big picture or calls that are not clear by the rules. I know for a fact that if he has a big problem (like Salm) he consults with the rules committee before issuing a statement.

He is the FOCAL POINT so everyone naturally hates him for the authority that he stands for. I for one could never have a job were everyone says you suck at the tourney and when the next one rolls around begs you to ref.

If Bill gave me the worst possible call I know I could ask him and he would absolutely give me a clear concise answer why he did it. Of all the years we have talked about problem calls he has never had a reason that didn't make sense.


AGD

[shartley]

Thanks for that information Tom.

Could we possibly have more of an answer though? Example…. You could almost say the same things about the President of the United States… there are many similarities. But if someone asked who George W. Bush is, just saying what he does and his roll would not be answering a whole lot.

There are reasons why someone is in the position they are in. The people have a history. They have some skills, or qualifications that make them suitable for the positions they are in. And nowhere in your post (although very supportive of Bill, and insightful into the job he does for the readers) does it actually address “who” Bill Cookston “is”, his qualifications, history, etc.

What is it that makes him suitable for that job, besides no one else wanting it, and being friends with someone else in the industry. Heck, that would mean that anyone who was willing to take that position and knows some folks in the industry is qualified to hold it….. And I don’t think that is the case. See my point? I think folks would like to know who he is and why he is in the position he is in, not just about what he does in that position.

I hope that makes sense.

[cledford]

AGD,

Good enough for me. As I said I don't know him. I have see many posts at PBN and some here that seemed to paint him as the "one man show" with regard to rules. I'd also seen more about his policing of trigger/trigger-pull rules then anything else.

As you indicated there is plenty of unflattering info floating around out there about his calls also. I get your drift that a lot of these criticisms are "sour grapes."

I will say that as a ref (head or not) his job shouldn't be confused by having to "interpret" the rules - only enforce them. Maybe NPPL needs some sort of body that addresses questions about rules. It's like our system of government -one group to make the rules, one to enforce them, and one to interpret.

This is all slightly above my head - but I'm still interested because the rules that the NPPL sets affet trends in the industry and filter down as well. I wasn't attempting to bash Bill (not saying you thought I was either) I just see his name more often then not driving how the rules are interrupted and some of those decisions really affect certain things. Also, I'm very concerned about the cheating I keep hearing about.

Anyhow, if he's got your respect he's got mine.

-Calvin

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by AGD
Bill DOES NOT MAKE THE RULES, he just interprets and enforces them. He does not watch individual games for wiping or infractions, he only handles the big picture or calls that are not clear by the rules. I know for a fact that if he has a big problem (like Salm) he consults with the rules committee before issuing a statement.

AGD

I'm sure he's an understanding and fair man. I cannot claim to know him, but based on the above quote, I have a question of my own...

I think we all know that CHEATING, WIPING, and SPORTSMANSHIP are problems that affect the BIG PICTURE of our sport. the Salm incident, while a huge problem of the World Cup, is a small problem for our sport. Paintball will NEVER grow until the pros, amatures and rec players all stop cheating.

Perhaps Mr. Cookston SHOULD watch some individual games, or video of past games, and recommend that the Rules Committee come up with rules governing Sportsmanship, Wiping, and Cheating in general. It's there, we've all seen the footage where you can, without a reasonable doubt, say 'He just cheated!'

Until then, neither the NPPL, Mr. Cookston, nor the Pro Players are doing anything good for our sport's future.

Jonesie

[manike]

I have huge respect for Bill Cookston. He is a nice guy who is very approachable and genuinely concerned about paintball. I enjoy talking to him and discussing paintball and the rules when I get chance.

His job can't be easy, but I'm glad it's him doing it. I think he does very well considering the circumstances and conditions.

The rules are not 'perfect' so often he does have to interpret them. I have found he always does it fairly with serious reasoning and thought.

He is doing a huge amount of work to clean up the NPPL. Unfortunately he can't be on every field so he needs others to help with judging etc. and mistakes, wiping and bad judgs calls are not under his immediate control when they happen on field. He does take effort to watch all the big important games and so be there to help with any difficult situations.

He interprets and enforces rules (like the trigger one) to keep thing fair. This is something he can directly be involved in, so is.

I don't know about his history but WDP had enough belief in him to pay for his wages for a year to try and clean up paintball.

Sometimes he comes down hard but he has valid reasons.

manike

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by manike
He is doing a huge amount of work to clean up the NPPL. Unfortunately he can't be on every field so he needs others to help with judging etc. and mistakes, wiping and bad judgs calls are not under his immediate control when they happen on field. He does take effort to watch all the big important games and so be there to help with any difficult situations.

He interprets and enforces rules (like the trigger one) to keep thing fair. This is something he can directly be involved in, so is.

manike

OK, then something needs to be done about the Refs in paintball, and they SHOULD fall under his control. Perhaps there should be a seperate set of 'unbiased' Refs like in the NBA or the NFL or any other professional sport. My understanding has always been that players stand in as refs most of the time. If this understanding is correct, then there is the first problem.

2nd, there needs to be definate, firm and FINAL sanctions for cheating. The ban of Salm is a good start, but it shouldn't take something that extreme to get banned. Wiping should be a suspendable offense, as well as bad sportsmanship. Maybe not a year's worht, but some period of time that would affect the team and the sponsor.

Financial punishments would not only deter unethical play, but will help the NPPL with additional income. Fine a player for wiping, in theory he will be less likely to do it. Fine a sponsor for wiping, the problem should be handled in house. Of course, the fines would only affect the Pros.

The key is the refs. If they will enforce the rules, and call out cheating when they see it, paintball would advance by leaps and bounds.

Jonesie

[manike]

Originally posted by Jonesie
OK, then something needs to be done about the Refs in paintball, and they SHOULD fall under his control. Perhaps there should be a seperate set of 'unbiased' Refs like in the NBA or the NFL or any other professional sport.

Exactly! There is it's called PRO. Proffessional Reffing Organisation. It is something Bill Cookston is developing but it isn't easy.

How do you find good people that understand the rules and can enfore them that aren't affiliated to a team, and who will travel to judge event after event with all the abuse and aggro and bonus balls they get?

Not easy. But Bill Cookston is working on it. Still got some ways to go but it had to be started. This is what he started in conjunction with WDP.

manike

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike
How do you find good people that understand the rules and can enfore them that aren't affiliated to a team, and who will travel to judge event after event with all the abuse and aggro and bonus balls they get?

Not easy. But Bill Cookston is working on it. Still got some ways to go but it had to be started. This is what he started in conjunction with WDP.

manike
I know someone who would be perfect for that.... if he was paid to do so.

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley

I know someone who would be perfect for that.... if he was paid to do so.

OK, that's one... we need another 7 per field ;)

If he wants to do it tell him to get in touch with Bill he can PM me for his e-mail.

manike

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by manike


Exactly! There is it's called PRO. Proffessional Reffing Organisation. It is something Bill Cookston is developing but it isn't easy.

How do you find good people that understand the rules and can enfore them that aren't affiliated to a team, and who will travel to judge event after event with all the abuse and aggro and bonus balls they get?

Not easy. But Bill Cookston is working on it. Still got some ways to go but it had to be started. This is what he started in conjunction with WDP.

manike

I think that is a GREAT idea!

You know, with all the money these Tournament seem to take in with entry fees, $100 cases of FPO, and sponsors, the refs should get their fair share.

You're right, there is a challenge in finding qualified people who are unbiased. As paintball becomes a little older, you'll find the guys who used to play, but don't or can't at the Pro level anymore.

Make it like any other sport. If a player argues a call, cheats, or displays poor sportmanship; kick him out of the game and/or suspend him from subsequent games or the entire tournie. Fine him or the team sponsor even.

Come up with a Card system (similar to SOCCER ;) ) where the first offense is a warning with some sort of reparation for the other team (like a free advance or something). Then, further offensive costs the team a player for that and/or subsequent games.

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head that seem to work in other sports. They may or maynot successfully apply to paintball. I'm just brainstorming in an attempt to help better the psort we all love.

This is what I'm doing instead of legitimate work :)

Jonesie

[cledford]

And find refs who don't get busted committing felony theft in the vendor area between games ;)

Seriously, I think the PRO is a good idea. I'm just having trouble seeing who would have the time to take off work, fly around the country, attend all of the major tourneys (at several days per event), and not PLAY.

Hopefully they find some good people.

Manike, how does one get involved?

-Calvin

[shartley]

Originally posted by cledford
And find refs who don't get busted committing felony theft in the vendor area between games ;)

Seriously, I think the PRO is a good idea. I'm just having trouble seeing who would have the time to take off work, fly around the country, attend all of the major tourneys (at several days per event), and not PLAY.

Hopefully they find some good people.

Manike, how does one get involved?

-Calvin
The key is not to find people who can take time off of work to do this, but to PAY people to do it AS their job. Also if you have Refs cover certain areas of the country and not ALL of the country, you can eliminate much of the travel expences.

[hitech]

Originally posted by shartley
The key is not to find people who can take time off of work to do this, but to PAY people to do it AS their job.

Do you think "we" are at this point yet? I can't imagine something like the NPPL being able to afford that. Are even NFL refs full time now (they weren't 10 years ago)?

[ogre55]

I would not normally qoute APG for anything, however, they printed a statement by Chuck Hensch (sp) of the NPPL in the last issue.

Two things that he said was that cheating and unsportsmanlike conduct are a problem with needs to be resolved and that for the Super 7 tournaments there will be a PROFFESSIONAL reffing staff that will be flown it to officiate the tournaments.

This next season may be very interesting indeed. If these reffs are as good as they should be, we should be seeing a severe crackdown on the tourny BS.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Ogre

[Pstan]

In thinking about the rules of the game and especially the state of cheating in the game today, one needs to look at some other sports to make a comparison. Most times we look at Baseball or Football etc......but I think a more esoteric sport like Tennis is a better match.


Ever see those tantrums by John McEnroe back in the day? Ask yourself why he did all that and the answer you will get is that it benefitted his game to do so. Make no mistake, he knew the majority of the calls he argued were made right, but if he could make line judges question themselves, or better yet, scared of him, he felt he'd get more calls. Switch forward in your mind to today. Watch some tennis and you will notice that behavior is not any better. Still the same old bad attitudes, glaring at judges, cussing, throwing stuff, and cry-baby antics.


Now let's talk Paintball. You should see the parallels already. Players cheat, misbehave........in general act completely terrible because of the reason listed above.........they have a firm belief it benefits them to do so. And frankly, the way things are now it does.


Why hasnt anything been done about it? Why is it unlikely that anything WILL be done about it? In the final analysis, it's the players themselves that will have to make the rules changes because they are the people that will be left to follow them. And though they might exclaim loudly that "something needs to be done", if you could magically put them all in a room to fix this mess they would all drop whatever team hatred for each other they had and band together to say that "nothings wrong with the rules...it's just the refs". They would band together to keep things the same because all believe secretly that they benefit more from the bad behaviour, loose rules, and silly crap than they ever would from a rigidly controlled fair game.


It all comes down the Human Element. And the game will only get fairer the closer we come to removing the human element from the judging and playing of it. All Pro tennis could be judged using cameras instead of line judges. Why isnt it that way? The players dont want it and the powers that be see too much human element removed in a game with no one to cuss. The same can be said for paintball.


I think a discussion needs to be started about how we can use technology to fairly judge the game and take the Human Element, and human error, out. That's the key..... that's where the answer lies. A system that puts the minimum amount of pressure on the minimum amount of judges per game that can electronically, or otherwise, render a player out of the game with no one to blame but himself/herself and the other team.


So, who is Bill Cookston? Well, he's just a guy that is easy to blame things on! I mean come on people......you know you lost because of him... right?.......Ray Charles could have seen you shoot that guy! I hit that guy ref.......check him!!! You're out Dude......what are these people doing!!!!!!!.......and on and on and on it goes.................LOL.

Get the picture?


P

[shartley]

NFL Refs to my understanding are part time… but there is more to it than that.....
http://www.madjacksports.com/nolan/article831a.shtml

Also this was written back in Aug of 01…. For Sports lawn news.

New York, August 28, 2001 -- After a series of unsuccessful negotiations, the NFL locked out its referees in the first such labor incident in the league since a 1987 player strike. Replacement referees began working August 29. The dispute between the league and the NFL Referees Association (NFLRA) may likely continue into the regular season.

The lockout resulted after two days of negotiations in Dallas that ended in a deadlock. NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue met with NFLRA chief negotiator Tom Condon for four hours on August 27 and over two hours on August 28, but the two did not near an agreement.

The dispute began in March when the referees' previous labor agreement expired. The NFLRA is seeking a salary increase of 400 percent over its current rates. Salaries now range from $21,000 to $69,000 per year. The NFL is willing to offer a 40 percent increase for the next season and a cumulative 100 percent increase by 2003. The NFL considers the referees part-time employees, but the NFLRA argues that referees often log over 2,000 work hours per year. Full-time officials in the NBA, NHL, and Major League Baseball earn up to $235,000 per year.

According to the Miami Herald, Tagliabue "conferred with" New York Giants co-owner Wellington Mara, Clevleand Browns President Carmen Policy, Denver Broncos Owner Pat Bowlen, Pittsburgh Steelers President Dan Rooney, Cincinnati Bengal President Mike Brown, Carolina Panthers Owner Jerry Richardson and Kansas City Chiefs Owner Lamar Hunt before locking out the referees. One hundred twenty replacement referees were called in from college football, the Arena Football League, and NFL Europe. The replacements were offered a $4,000 salary for two games. Tagliabue said the league has "a duty to out fans and teams, and we cannot go into the regular season with the threat of a sudden work stoppage by our game officials," according to the Washington Times. No further negotiations are scheduled for this week.

Sources:
Ethan Skolnick, "NFL Locks Out Its Officials," Miami Herald, 8/29
Eric Fisher, "NFL's Official Lockout Begins," The Washington Times, 8/29
It does not seem that even as part time, the refs do too bad. Sure, it was less than other league officials (much) but you CAN live off it, and it is more than a lot of folks make working 9-5 jobs. If the league paid for lodging, transportation, and all the other things that go with Reffing a tournament, I would work for that amount and cover the tournaments on the East Coast…... And I am sure many others would as well.

Is paintball ready for it? Good question… the industry has been ready to take its consumer’s money for a good long time now…maybe it is time the industry gave back? I can not see any downsides to having a paid professional reffing staff… except maybe higher tournament fees? I don’t know. I have not examined all the possibilities yet, but even at part time wages, all other sports have a professional reffing staff that I feel at WORSE make enough to justify doing the job.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Pstan
In thinking about the rules of the game and especially the state of cheating in the game today, one needs to look at some other sports to make a comparison. Most times we look at Baseball or Football etc......but I think a more esoteric sport like Tennis is a better match.


Ever see those tantrums by John McEnroe back in the day? Ask yourself why he did all that and the answer you will get is that it benefitted his game to do so. Make no mistake, he knew the majority of the calls he argued were made right, but if he could make line judges question themselves, or better yet, scared of him, he felt he'd get more calls. Switch forward in your mind to today. Watch some tennis and you will notice that behavior is not any better. Still the same old bad attitudes, glaring at judges, cussing, throwing stuff, and cry-baby antics.


Now let's talk Paintball. You should see the parallels already. Players cheat, misbehave........in general act completely terrible because of the reason listed above.........they have a firm belief it benefits them to do so. And frankly, the way things are now it does.


Why hasnt anything been done about it? Why is it unlikely that anything WILL be done about it? In the final analysis, it's the players themselves that will have to make the rules changes because they are the people that will be left to follow them. And though they might exclaim loudly that "something needs to be done", if you could magically put them all in a room to fix this mess they would all drop whatever team hatred for each other they had and band together to say that "nothings wrong with the rules...it's just the refs". They would band together to keep things the same because all believe secretly that they benefit more from the bad behaviour, loose rules, and silly crap than they ever would from a rigidly controlled fair game.


It all comes down the Human Element. And the game will only get fairer the closer we come to removing the human element from the judging and playing of it. All Pro tennis could be judged using cameras instead of line judges. Why isnt it that way? The players dont want it and the powers that be see too much human element removed in a game with no one to cuss. The same can be said for paintball.


I think a discussion needs to be started about how we can use technology to fairly judge the game and take the Human Element, and human error, out. That's the key..... that's where the answer lies. A system that puts the minimum amount of pressure on the minimum amount of judges per game that can electronically, or otherwise, render a player out of the game with no one to blame but himself/herself and the other team.


So, who is Bill Cookston? Well, he's just a guy that is easy to blame things on! I mean come on people......you know you lost because of him... right?.......Ray Charles could have seen you shoot that guy! I hit that guy ref.......check him!!! You're out Dude......what are these people doing!!!!!!!.......and on and on and on it goes.................LOL.

Get the picture?


P

Great post.

-Calvin

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

Great post, very well put. Most times the reason refs miss calls or refuse to change a call is because so much of the time it's a cheating player trying to pull something and whining to get their way even if it's wrong, not because they're bad refs or partial. I saw a guy on Dynasty playing against Aftershock and get blasted square in the mask and keep playing, and when the ref held him because he just kept going and shooting at the other team, the whole team was shocked including him. Why? They knew why the ref did it and you know he felt that shot. They were being whiny little punks. So the ref was busy enforcing the rules there and couldn't enforce it elsewhere.

If so many players wouldn't act like immature babies or think they should win even if it's by breaking rules, then they are contributing to this problem. The more players try to pull stuff including using illegal equipment or equipment that tries to bend safety rules, the tougher Cookston has to be to everybody to prevent it. Players have only themselves to blame for this. Bill can't watch all refs and does far more good than most people in his position would. You put the average paintball player in his position, the league would be corrupt and a joke in a year. Bill is handling those players who can't handle losing and are sinking the game for their own egos as best as anyone in his role can. It doesn't matter what his history is, it's almost better if he never played because he never picked up the bad cheating habits so many teams have. He loves the game and is doing what he can to stop cheating, but the continued presence of arrogant losers that have chosen to play this game and are ruining it for the rest of us who love it for the game and not the prestige are making it a big job for him that he is forced to handle more aggressively than he probably would wish to.

[billmi]

Really good post, Tom.

Also, it should be noted, that PRO was started by Bill Cookston. Funding for that formation was taken from WDP's sponsorship of the NPPL series in 2002. There have been some disagreements between various parties as to whether this meant that WDP helped found PRO, and thus has say in its future, or whether they paid for and got the exposure of NPPL series sponsorship, and that funding was used for PRO thus giving them no claim in it's foundation and current ownership.

The name NPPL is tricky right now, since two parties both claim to be its rightfull owner one group is NPPL, Inc. and one group is Paintball Sports Promotions. PRO is providing referees for PSP's events this year, and unless the situation has changed from when I last discussed the issue woth Cookston a few weeks back, he will not be presiding as ultimate judge at NPPL, Inc. events.

Also, it was mentioned that refs should get there share of the $100 a case tournament paint - NPPL events have been since their inception, BYOP events. On site paint sales at NPPL events has seen pricing as low as $20 to $30 a case (for low end paint, obviously) and while products can only be sold on site by event or series sponsors, there was not a per case profit or surcharge going to the league or event promoters.


See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[hitech]

I don't personally think that paintball is ready for refs. that earn enough to make a living from reffing. Paintball is certainly ready to pay their expenses. :D

[Muzikman]

I agree with HiTech. There is no way that paintball could afford to have full time pro reffs. But the part time, paid expenses and maybe a small per game pay might be do able. I have been trying to think of a reason to make all the big events and not play them, maybe this is my ticket, or maybe Warpig could hire me<wink><wink><nudge><nudge>;)

Also, since everyone in here has been talking about NPPL I will point out the WPF ref program. Though it has some weak spots, it was the first to make a step in the right direction. All I can say about the WPF is that when the ran Skyball in (I think it was 2001) it ran smooth and everyone you talk to that played the event that year and years previous said that they where shocked at how well it went. I guess what I am getting at is, as big as NPPL / PSP is, people should keep and eye out for WPF events.

[shartley]

I can’t stand it any more!!!! I have to say it!!!!

I am tired of skimming the thread topics and reading THIS one as “Who is Bill Clinton, and what's he stand for?” LOL Am I the only one?

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by shartley
I can’t stand it any more!!!! I have to say it!!!!

I am tired of skimming the thread topics and reading THIS one as “Who is Bill Clinton, and what's he stand for?” LOL Am I the only one?

Bill Clinton sold the weapons-grade plutonium to North Korea!!! ;)

Jonesie

EDIT: Removed Sig.

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by billmi
Also, it was mentioned that refs should get there share of the $100 a case tournament paint - NPPL events have been since their inception, BYOP events. On site paint sales at NPPL events has seen pricing as low as $20 to $30 a case (for low end paint, obviously) and while products can only be sold on site by event or series sponsors, there was not a per case profit or surcharge going to the league or event promoters.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

Sorry Bill, this is where my lack of tournament experience shows. Every tournament I've seen details about (all local) were requiring FPO @ ~ $100/case. :) That's my bad. I still believe that Refs shoudl get some of the FAT cut that the industry is getting.

Jonesie

[Troy]

The refs got $100 a day in the past, but i don't know what it is now.

[PsychoBaller]

Paintball Politics......someones got to be in charge... and the person that is always gets criticism.....

I just play..........

~da "happy where he is in paintball" baller

[50 cal]

If you want to win bad enough....just whine like a baby and kick and scream that you will never come back to one of (whoever he is officiating for) tournaments, and if your team is popular enough, he will make a call that you are happy with.

sign me,
Not a team member that was done wrong, but a ref that had waaaay to many calls overturned by Cookston because his buds were on the short end of the stick by one of my calls.

[Kevmaster]

Ive been the ultimate judge for a tournament a couple of times. It is not a fun job, but it is a necessary job. You have to stay off the field and let your field refs do the job, but when someone gets pissed at the call, they come to YOU to make a ruling on a call you didnt see. This puts you in a very, very, rough position with almost no ability at all. You cant watch EVERY game on 3 fields! You 95% of the time have to take the head ref's words as to what happened, but then the guy who complains feels he gets nowhere because the head ref is on a team at the hosting field!


Theres no glory in an ultimate judge. Its a tiresome and under-respected job. Someone has to do it, and that person will have my respect in whatever event i play.

[the123]

All this talk about his responsibilities and no one knows what Bill Cookston did to end up with the job of Ultimate Judge. What is his background? Why was HE chosen instead of someone else? I heard that he, "Cookie", used to sell paint at the OLD Challenge Park field, before it was CPX. Anyone know???

[billmi]

Originally posted by the123
All this talk about his responsibilities and no one knows what Bill Cookston did to end up with the job of Ultimate Judge. What is his background? Why was HE chosen instead of someone else? I heard that he, "Cookie", used to sell paint at the OLD Challenge Park field, before it was CPX. Anyone know???

Bill used to work at Challenge Park and CPX. He's played and reffed tournament paintball for years. He used to play for Farside years ago, and backed off of playing when he became more involved in tournament reffing. That's the experience that has had people like PSP, Skyball and Team Effort Events hire him as Ultimate Ref for their events.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills