What would pornographic images on barrel bags do to our sports credibility?

[magman007]

Well while looking around, i found the smartparts europe website. i cannot link the picture for obvious reasons but i will link the catalogue front. Be aware, there is a picture some may find disturbing.


What, i come to find, under a link entitled S.P.U.N.K , is a topless girl on a barrel bag. It was done in the same maner as the other smartparts barrel bags, yet with nudity.

Now, we all want paintball to grow up, but companies supplying nudity infront of mothers and children, is not an image we want is it? please discuss

[darklord]

I don't like the idea... I mean, risqué is one thing, but full out p0rn is totally uncalled for. If I had a young kid and I took him/her out to a field, I wouldn't want these things around. I believe that these pornographic barrel condoms have just crossed the line.

[ghideon]

Toplessness being considered unacceptable nudity is an American thing (at least in this case). The target audience for these products was European paintballers, who have different cultural standards than we do. They certainly have more "nudity" on television, where we have a lot more violence in comparison. So try to keep that in mind (I spent my childhood growing up in Europe). I'm not gonna argue which system is better.

Is it bad for our sport here in America? Prolly. But I'm just an American, not an uptight one.

[RetroEclipseMan]

Yeah, I don't think it's that great of an idea. But like it was already stated it's a bit different in Europe than it is here and nudity is tolerated a lot more in movies and tv and such.

[Bulldog]

ghideon pretty much summed it up. I think we may be a little too uptight about nudity in this country, but my opinion doesn't really matter. I don't think risque advertising is bad for the sport either, in fact I support it. I think we need to worry more about cheating, bad attitudes, and poor sportsmanship first. Just my take.

[shartley]

I think Dr. Ruth put it best on an interview I saw her on the other day… Americans are NOT “uptight” about nudity. We just don’t see the need to have it in every magazine, on billboards as we drive down the street, in newspapers, on the park grass, etc. We choose to keep some things more private. That is not uptight, it is a choice.

I have spent MUCH time in Europe and didn’t have a problem with seeing nudity all over the place. “When in Rome…” ;) But we in the US have chosen NOT to do that, and it should be respected and not belittled by saying it is uptight or anything other than a simple choice for our society here.

Now, as for if nudity on barrel bags will hurt paintball….. I say it comes down to what is socially acceptable. In Europe it may very well not make a difference. But honestly, I don’t CARE about paintball in Europe, I care about paintball in my country. And in my country it is not acceptable to go in public displaying full nudity. This means that if they were sold here in the states, and people tried to go to their local paintball parks using them……. What a bunch of idiots! LOL ;) Not only would they be kicked out of the park, but they would show their general ignorance and lack of class to everyone there.

Now…. If folks want to buy them and use them at their private fields, NO problem! This neither hurts nor helps paintball.

What it does do however is show a general lack of maturity. I have nothing wrong with Pornography (TRUST ME), but if you have to have it on your paintball gear, your car, your bookmarks, or anything else that has NOTHING to do with “sex”, you have a serious problem IMHO. Time and place… time and place….. and paintball is neither the time nor place for pornography.

[Kevmaster]

I spent a summer in Spain a couple of years ago...at age 16 i could go into a strip club, i could purchase "Elle" and other mags which were full of nudity (including the cover). And its not like they just dont check IDs, its that they ALLOW it!


Europe also differs in drinking laws....I could drink...legally thre too

[synreal]

Americans are NOT “uptight” about nudity
i could not agree with you less ;) for the vast majority of people in our country, we have been taught (by the culture around us) since childhood to be ashamed of our urges and bodies. (our country was founded by those with strong Puritan roots afterall)

that being said, noone really -needs- a woman stripping on their barrel bag. it's all about context of usage. want to have a dali painting or artistic nude photo on your barrel bag? rock on with your bad self. the average player i see at fields keeps getting younger and younger, let them keep their youth and innocence for an extra week, and just get yourself a nice, bright, red condom that i can see from across the fiels so i stop shooting at you ;)

[Devil]

I think I agree with shartley/Dr.Ruth it's not acceptable here, and it would hurt paintball...my little brothers are starting to get into paintball (that's what I got them for christmas...) and if my mom saw some of those things, there would be no way she'd approve...

When in Rome(or Europe) do as the Rome's, or Europeans, but in America...apply the censorship button please.

[synreal]

Originally posted by Devil
..... but in America...apply the censorship button please.
i understand your concern, but am terrified by that statement

[Devil]

synreal ??

I wasn't meaning anything...only that I didn't want to see it, and neither would parents of children playing.

[synreal]

i was half giving you grief ;) and i do believe you have a valid point, just the exact words that you used give me the chills :p

[ogre55]

Devil:

Not to put words in your mouth, but replacing "censorship" with "common sense" would definetely make a lot of people much more comfortable.

Ogre

[shartley]

Originally posted by synreal
i could not agree with you less ;) for the vast majority of people in our country, we have been taught (by the culture around us) since childhood to be ashamed of our urges and bodies. (our country was founded by those with strong Puritan roots afterall)

LOL You knew I would not let that go without commenting on it. ;)

I have to disagree with every bone in my body. I don’t think Americans are taught to be ashamed of our urges and our bodies at all. I never was, and my folks were VERY strict and followed a religious way of thinking. I find that what most people are taught are standards of public behavior and what is appropriate in different situations.. again, a time and place issue. This has nothing to do with being ashamed about our “urges” or our bodies (or bodies of others), it has to do with control of these in public situations.

And various studies have shown that in private, Americans are no less prudish about sex than any other society… in fact, we are no different. It is just a question about public displays of these things.

I celebrate the human form…. Both male and female…. After all, I am an artist. And I find nothing wrong with pornography in general. I also however, believe in keeping some things private and out of the public eye. This does not make me a prude, nor does it mean that I am ashamed of any urges I may have, of my body, or anything else.

If YOU have been taught to be ashamed of such things, I am sorry. But I have never seen anyone that I know being taught to be ashamed of any of this… it is about what we as a culture have deemed appropriate for public viewing, not about being ashamed. They are two totally different things.

I also swear (like a sailor at times), but I try not to do so in front of other people’s children, or in public places. Does that also mean that I am ashamed of swearing, or that I have been taught by my society that swearing is something to be ashamed of? Not at all, our society is very open to almost anything, but does teach us different “time and place” rules than some other societies do.

[nippinout]

I swear like a sailor too!!!

But I'm not a sailor.

My buddies also swear a lot, but I got them to curb it around kiddies...

One time my friends and I were at KB Toys. Friend#1 says, "Hey, check out this f'in toy, it's the shiz."

Friend#2, from my incessant training and beating, he remembers that we are in a toy store and notices Friend#1 swearing.

Friend#2 says to Friend#1, "Shut up bizzo! We in a gosh darn toy store!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

BTW, I'm still looking for monkey pictures to put on a barrel condom made by CSG. Maybe I should stop saying condom so much too.

[synreal]

well then sam, i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree <font color="#ededed">and that you're wrong ; )</font>

in our private lives, with our partners, i do agree that Americans treat their sexualality in a similar fashion to many other european cultures, but as a country, how we treat it outwardly is far and away much different. we have buckets more people with eating disorders and other body dismorphic conditions per capita as a result a systemically ingrained shame that our culture puts on people and their looks/desires.

i'm perfectly comfortable with myself and what i feel like doing in my "private" life, but became interested in, and did a good chunk on research the subject when i almost lost a loved one to bulimia a few years back.

in other news, who would have thought that a thread about boobs printed on cloth would have started an actual discussion ;)

[ghideon]

I'll have to disagree with shartley as well. Certianly where I live it's more liberal than most places, but I think the general American populace IS a bunch of prudes. The fact that we're actually having a discussion on this should prove that all is not well.

[KamikazeChiKenz]

It could hurt the sport but its not like its a jersey now is it? Also I think if its going to be seen by a lot of people then person w/ said barrel bag will have the sense not to show it to "the public". Also this is in Europe. I say let them have their barrel bag. It is your choice whether or not to buy it.

[dre1919]

This IS an interesting discussion, and I agree with parts of both synreal's and shartleys opinions. I think that a lot of opinions and actions people do in their lives are based on the puritanical views we've gotten handed down from generation to generation. When I was little, it wouldn't have been acceptable to be sitting in my room looking at a Playboy magazine. Why not? I had reached puberty, I would have been in private, and Playboy is a magazine that most would consider pretty tame by adult magazine standards. It shows naked women seductively, but Hustler or Genesis it's not. However, this still would have made my Mom gasp and would have caused a huge stir.

I think that even though the location was appropriate, and the material wasn't something that should be considered offensive, I would have still gotten punished because I had something "dirty." I know most people's parents would have done the same thing. Right there it shows we have a different attitude about nudity and sex than Europe and for different reasons. In Europe, a twelve year old boy sees a woman's breasts on TV it isn't a big deal...that's part of a woman. But here, it's a big deal for me to see them in a magazine...it always has been. We're getting better about it than we have been in the past, but we still consider nudity a big deal in all phases of life.

So my point is similar to synreal's...our opinions and reactions to these things come more from our forefathers views more than our own. I still think there is personal choices involved, but your first initial reaction comes from what you were taught. It's like the bad language thing...I too cuss like a sailor at all times. It makes me laugh because I get irritated when I go to a reastaurant and invaribly have a family seated by me and my friends. Right there, my first reaction is to watch my language around that family's kids. Then I stop and think: why? Why should it matter to me? I don't consider "foul language" foul...I know that when I have kids I'll let them cuss at home because to do otherwise would be hypocritical IMO. But yet, even if I did let them cuss I probably wouldn't allow them to when their grandparents come over out of respect to their ways. Growing up, cussing was "bad behavior" as most are taught so that's where my initial reaction to the family sitting next to me comes from.

I just wanted to say to me it's these teachings and beliefs that have fostered the "Americans are prudish" view into the world, but with each passing generation getting more lax on these issues we're building a more open opinion.

[ShooterJM]

Well, I personally think they're fine as long as common sense is exercised. But it will probably end up falling on the shoulders of field owners.

On a side note, did anyone else just kinda chuckle a bit at the appropriateness when they first saw nudity on a barrel condom. ;)

[shartley]

LOL Yes, it looks like some of us disagree on certain points. And that is just fine. :D

I do think however that most of us agree that THESE barrel bags will not be warmly accepted on the public fields here in the US. And for whatever reason, prudes or appropriateness dictated by society, it is not a bad thing… in THIS case. ;) Most of us play paintball to play paintball and don’t feel the need to incorporate our sexual desires or habits into that sport.

Do I think as a novelty item for personal use, or for collecting purposes, they are a bad thing? Nah. And do I think they would take away from the credibility of paintball for the general public? How COULD it? If they are not brought on the field, they detract nothing from the sport. Just like nude air fresheners, and other such products take away from any other sport or industry.

Added note: [Dr. Ruth Voice]You should smile when you say condom. It is a good sing. Sex is natural and should be enjoyed by mutually consenting adults. And you should always practice safe sex…. So yes, smile when you say condom, and use them.[/Dr. Ruth Voice]

[Jack_Dubious]

You can turn on the TV and watch numerous people getting murdered, or play video games where the object is to kill people......but once a bare breast is on the screen...Whoah!!! Call a censor!! You cant have kids exposed to that!!! They might grow up and become perverts. :p

Anyways I do feel our country has some prudish views when it comes to nudity. But naked girls on a barrel condom, or gear bag, or whatever...is just kinda immature. As for hurting paintball...i doubt it, there are numerous issues that hurt the image of paintball...and nudity isnt one of them...

JDub

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Jack_Dubious
[B]You can turn on the TV and watch numerous people getting murdered, or play video games where the object is to kill people......but once a bare breast is on the screen...Whoah!!! Call a censor!! You cant have kids exposed to that!!! They might grow up and become perverts. :p



Ain't hypocrisy grand?

So let's recap. Mangled body on film = GOOD (or at least acceptable) Nudity = BAD.

Seriously though, for better or for worse, this is the state of public perception and what should and should not be public. I think it's fairly obvious to all the these products should not be flaunted on American fields. Whether they will or they won't is another story.

Ogre

[dre1919]

Originally posted by shartley
LOL Yes, it looks like some of us disagree on certain points. And that is just fine. :D

I do think however that most of us agree that THESE barrel bags will not be warmly accepted on the public fields here in the US. And for whatever reason, prudes or appropriateness dictated by society, it is not a bad thing… in THIS case. ;) Most of us play paintball to play paintball and don’t feel the need to incorporate our sexual desires or habits into that sport.

Do I think as a novelty item for personal use, or for collecting purposes, they are a bad thing? Nah. And do I think they would take away from the credibility of paintball for the general public? How COULD it? If they are not brought on the field, they detract nothing from the sport. Just like nude air fresheners, and other such products take away from any other sport or industry.

Added note: [Dr. Ruth Voice]You should smile when you say condom. It is a good sing. Sex is natural and should be enjoyed by mutually consenting adults. And you should always practice safe sex…. So yes, smile when you say condom, and use them.[/Dr. Ruth Voice]

Well said Sam. I don't think they'll hurt the sport at all. I mean, look at the NFL. Are the Philadelphia Eagles or the NFL as a whole hurt by the fact the Eagles Cheerleaders now sell a lingerie calender? No. Personally, I could care less whether people have these barrel condoms or not. If that's what they like, more power to them, but they would have to expect a reaction here in the US for whatever reason. I just think it's good the choice is there if that's what your into.

[MantisMag]

i'll have to say that for the most part americans are fairly liberal when in private but there are still a considerable number of prudish people. i won't compare the numbers to europe because i haven't been there.

as for the barrel condoms/blocking devices i don't see a problem as long as they stay in europe. as was said before nudity is not a big deal over there.

on a side note. isn't it funny that it's not considered nudity until we see nipple? when 99% of the breast is exposed it's still ok as long as we don't see that tip, or any part of the areolae(sp?). i even saw bare breast on an old episode of xena. they digitally removed the nipples so it was ok for tv. :p censors are so weird.

[magman007]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
I spent a summer in Spain a couple of years ago...at age 16 i could go into a strip club, i could purchase "Elle" and other mags which were full of nudity (including the cover). And its not like they just dont check IDs, its that they ALLOW it!


Europe also differs in drinking laws....I could drink...legally thre too


Now kev, as many of you know, i am in chile, and i am experiencing the same things. I think, as a guy, its cool that people are open about these things.

But the thing is, even tho it is for europe, who is to say it wont show up in the usa? some guy who thinks he is cool orders it from europe, and decides to use it infront of jonnie 12 yearold newbie... that just isnt right.


Also, what if it shows up in magazine coverage of the mellenium series? a big picture of say the Ton Tons, and you see this barrel condom bag etc on there? what will people think? what do you think?

What if a mother opens up this coppy of apg whih so happens to have the theorhetical tontons isue, and she sees this, that would probabally mean no more paintball for jonnie

[hitech]

Originally posted by shartley
Time and place? time and place?.. and paintball is neither the time nor place for pornography.
I think that says it all. It really is about time and place. Hopefully, "common" sense tells you when it is the right time and place.

[Mr Pink]

If you think Censors in the US are weird - check out Japan, they have stuff that makes me squirm, and yet are still prudish about others!

Gotta love the differences between countries:D It'd be boring travelling otherwise.

[cledford]

I think that this is very interesting as the Europeans often look down their noses at us because of our full-auto, camo-wearing, "militaristic looking" marker ways.

Honestly, I wish I had a buck for ever overt or veiled comment they make over there about choices we're free to make here putting "their" sport in a bad light - funny how they don't look it at the same when it is the other way around.

No offense Simon, I'm not saying everyone from that neck of the woods is like that, but I've just seen to many comments that made me mad to not say anything.

-Calvin

[halB]

its acceptable over there, but not over here, therefore as long as it stays over there its not gonna damage our sport at all. a topless chick isnt something too awful big over there. and yes, despite what that old windbag did say, america IS uptight, we come damn close to the taliban sometimes in our censorship and so forth. now then, we've made some strides in recent times, we do have nudity in movies and on special cable shows now, and someday we will be like europe. but still, we aint too far from the days when the producers of gone with the wind were fined 500 dollars for saying the word "damn" by the movie ethics committee.


got off point there... bottomline, more pornography, less punks in ghillie suits!

[MarkM]

Hey at least I know which barrel condom to pack now ;)
plus as long as "I can bum as many f a g s as possible" when I fly over its all good ;)

Sex sells, it is as simple as that, why have cheerleaders? Why have the semi-naked girls with the round cards in boxing? Why have the girls in sprayed on cat suits on the grid at motor racing events? Why do you see lots of pretty, but don't know anything about the products, girls at major paintball events on the trade stands?

Plus given the ownership of the Smart Parts company has, as a religious base, one that is regarded as somewhat restrained, they don't have an issue with this product line.

Good points made about the violence that is considered ok etc and no cries of "not good !" when applied to the current marketing that Evil (PMI) is running...seen a couple of rumbles but then I thought "we" were trying to play down the violence aspect of paintball to make it acceptable to the mainstream :confused:

:edited: to allow my quote to actually print...censors get everywhere :mad:

[smilestyler]

I can't think of any sport that allows pornography on their equipment. If paintball is going to struggle to become recognized as an equal to such sports as baseball, hockey, soccer, etc. ,we need to respect that the rest of North America is watching us, and what we do or don't do must be acceptable to, and not offend, anyone else. You have rights and freedoms in your life. Unfortunatly, we have the freedom to destoy this sport.

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Mr Pink
If you think Censors in the US are weird - check out Japan, they have stuff that makes me squirm, and yet are still prudish about others!

Gotta love the differences between countries:D It'd be boring travelling otherwise.

Comparing Japan and pretty much any other country western country, especcially the US, is kind of unfair. Their society evolved in a completely different manner from our own.

Japan has very strict guidelines of what is and is not ok in public. Publically the Japanese are very restrained. However, Japanese society, both legally and ethically, takes a completely hands off approach to what people do behind closed doors. That stuff that "makes you squirm" would never be mentioned in "polite" japanese society. It simply does not exist. It is sold out in the open because people who do not want to see it simply ignore it.

Contrast that with the US. Many people in the US seem to feel that their standards/views/morales are what everybody should abide by, whether they like it or not.

Ogre

[Bulldog]

To sum it up it looks like two issues here, pornographic images in paintball advertising in the US = Bad, and the other issue is whether we Americans are uptight. That's just a statement we all will either agree with or disagree based on personal views, upbringing, religion, life experience, etc. On a personal note I'm gonna have to go with synreal on the second one, but that's neither here nor there, and the way shartley and he agreed to disagree is applauded. That's one cool thing about AO.

EDIT - corrected spelling.

[Conqueror]

Americans are DEFINITELY uptight compared to Europeans.

The last time I was in Spain, they played Eyes Wide Shut on the local network (not the premium channels). In the USA, Playboy mags are kept in plastic wrap on the back shelf at the bookstore. In Spain they sell hardcore porn videos next to the Chupa Chups lollipops on street carts. Europe collectively has a different attitude about nudity than we do.

That said, I still think paintball stuff with actual nudity crosses the line. Whether it offends us is not the issue; nudity offends america in general, and if we want to represent the sport in a positive light here in the states we cannot allow pornographic images on barrel covers.

CQ

[Kevmaster]

magman, the american magazines wouldnt put that picture in...i dont think 1) the publishers would print it and 2) that the american gvt would allow it.

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
magman, the american magazines wouldnt put that picture in...i dont think 1) the publishers would print it and 2) that the american gvt would allow it.

As for American nags not publishing the pictures you are probably right. However, as for the American government getting involved, that is a different story.

/stepping up to the soapbox/

Despite the hot air so many politician blow regarding that we see, hear and read, the government has next to nothing to do with censoring the content of media in this country. The cencors are the media itself. The MPAA, which rates moveies is a private organization which was started by the studios as due to public pressure.

The ESRB which rates video games is also a private organization.

/stepping onto the soapbox/

But my favorite is the organizations that rates music (I can't remember the abbreviation) They were started in the mid 80's when Tipper Gore (yes the wife of THAT gore) started a public uproar regarding what we are seeing and hearing. Funny, but I thought that liberal democrats were the ones that were all for free speech and free expression.

Sorry about the political rampling above, but the point of it all is to show that the government actually does very little when it comes to actually censoring works. They leave that to nosy private citizens with too much time on their hands.

/Stepping off the soap box to the relief of all of AO I am sure./

Ogre

[Halliday]

Originally posted by ogre55


.......But my favorite is the organizations that rates music (I can't remember the abbreviation) They were started in the mid 80's when Tipper Gore (yes the wife of THAT gore) started a public uproar regarding what we are seeing and hearing. Funny, but I thought that liberal democrats were the ones that were all for free speech and free expression...........

Ogre

I belive that is the P.M.R.C.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by shartley
I have nothing wrong with Pornography (TRUST ME)

I trust ya. ;)

[shartley]

:D

[daveymag]

I think that you should all stop worrying about it so much. Just relax a little bit, I ordered two, one for me, and one for my girlfriend. I never knew that the paintball community was filled with so many soccer moms that are so worried about paintballs image. Maybe it's just me, and the fact that paintball has not been threatened at all up here in Minnesota, and maybe if it had, I might think differently. Paintball isn't going to be banned or anything because of a barrell condom. First the evil website and now this? Come on guys lighten up, and have some fun.

Edit: It's not even full nudity, it just her boobies, (her very nice boobies) that are shown.

[shartley]

Originally posted by daveymag
I think that you should all stop worrying about it so much. Just relax a little bit, I ordered two, one for me, and one for my girlfriend. I never knew that the paintball community was filled with so many soccer moms that are so worried about paintballs image. Maybe it's just me, and the fact that paintball has not been threatened at all up here in Minnesota, and maybe if it had, I might think differently. Paintball isn't going to be banned or anything because of a barrell condom. First the evil website and now this? Come on guys lighten up, and have some fun.

Edit: It's not even full nudity, it just her boobies, (her very nice boobies) that are shown.
Yeah, that's it... insult people..... Good way to make a point! :rolleyes:

[ogre55]

Originally posted by daveymag
I think that you should all stop worrying about it so much. Just relax a little bit, I ordered two, one for me, and one for my girlfriend. I never knew that the paintball community was filled with so many soccer moms that are so worried about paintballs image. Maybe it's just me, and the fact that paintball has not been threatened at all up here in Minnesota, and maybe if it had, I might think differently. Paintball isn't going to be banned or anything because of a barrell condom. First the evil website and now this? Come on guys lighten up, and have some fun.

Edit: It's not even full nudity, it just her boobies, (her very nice boobies) that are shown.

I'm not going to go for the personal attack, despite the ease, but instead I am going to try to maintain the moral high ground and try to explain. Who knows, maybe it will do some good.

The overriding consesus, so far, is that while these images are not personally offensive to most of us here on AO, the chance that they will be offensive to the many minors and their parents will do no good, and has a possible chance of causing harm to the sport. It also seems to be the opinion of many of those here that these items are superflous.

This is not the soccer mom mentallity but rather simple common sense.

Get it?

Ogre

[RRfireblade]

Basically,
Get over it. It's another country. If uptight people like some of you here didn't make such a fuss over it,no one here would even know about it.
You think it represents a poor image,THEN You protest it and then you POST it and thus draw 100x more attention to it. Makes good sense huh?

Jay.

[845]

Theres nudity on some skateboard decks and we have seen what a failure that sport is.:rolleyes:

[HoppysMag]

this goes into the whole Xtreme sport mentality. all the people who think they are serious bad***'es are gunna say who cares what you uptite people have to say... which to me means, screw the future of the sport i want instant satisfaction with immature thrills... but hey what ever... if you want to keep parents from letting thier kids play paintball why dont we just start hiring strippers and make this like a rock concert... and if you can honestly say your parents wouldnt car is you were ( Under 18) exposed to pornographic images and such, i feel pity for you because some ones not doing a good job... ( Darn it irbodden got me all pissy today, lol)

EDIT:


Originally posted by 845
Theres nudity on some skateboard decks and we have seen what a failure that sport is.:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: dont even get me started

[MINIMAG4LIFE]

WARNING Barrel condoms can cause blindness and hairy palms, If improperly used, contact Physician if chaffing occurs

Keep TnA off the field

[magman007]

OK now see? its already gotten to the USA!


KEv, if you remember, facefull is a french magazine, as is PGI... both of them are not below printing a picture of that barrel blocking device...


Thats another thing, we changed the name just because it may offend some people, it used to be barrel condom, well not any more! Whether it was up tight, or what ever, it offended some one, and you know what? we just cant do that. Why not just print the F word on a barrel condom?


This falls right in with pro's cursing within earshot of mother and child, not a good thing is it? nope! this is just in eye shot of mother and child


As for the skate decks, well, if you notice, graphisc dont last long enough to have any one see it, so its a moot point. one good grind, and say chao to those cool graphics you paid for

[InfinatyBPS]

Originally posted by magman007
Well while looking around, i found the smartparts europe website. i cannot link the picture for obvious reasons but i will link the catalogue front. Be aware, there is a picture some may find disturbing.


What, i come to find, under a link entitled S.P.U.N.K , is a topless girl on a barrel bag. It was done in the same maner as the other smartparts barrel bags, yet with nudity.

Now, we all want paintball to grow up, but companies supplying nudity infront of mothers and children, is not an image we want is it? please discuss


Omg, a nude human body:eek: We're all going to hell, right after mothers stop their kids from playing it because they saw a woman's body:rolleyes:

[shartley]

I almost have to sit back and shake my head at many of these comments.

I will not get into a long diatribe about why things are the way they are, but I will say that when I was young I used to think that EVERYTHING was okay and that everyone was just being way over protecting and whatnot…. The world and things in general just didn’t seem fair or right most of the time. But then I became a husband and a father….. funny how suddenly things became clear to me and my opinions drastically changed. ;)

Today, it is hard to get folks to take responsibility for THEMSELVES, let alone their families or their community…. There is too much “what I want now” mentality (as was posted by another member), and not enough thought about how your actions or inactions affect those around you.

Go ahead and buy pornographic barrel bags, heck go buy pornographic anything… but if you show up in any public place where I am, you can bet that I will have you removed. Like it or not. Like ME or not. Whatever. Because the way I see it, it was YOU that disrespected me and everyone else by being so selfish about your “need” to display pornographic materials. We all know what is socially acceptable and what is not, whether we agree with it or not….

Again, if we were in Europe and someone did the same thing… NO PROBLEM! But as we have often said about many issues concerning the United States and Europe.. We are NOT in Europe. ;)

It bothers me that being responsible, and showing concern for others has caused a somewhat negative reaction by some on AO’s members. The things that make people responsible and good parents, as well as socially aware and respectful, have been spit upon as if they are evil or somehow “wrong”.

This worries me, and this attitude is really more of a detriment to the sport of Paintball than the issue of pornography on barrel bags in itself. And even more so since it seems the overall opinion of those who say the porn bags are not a good thing, is that THEY don’t think pornography is in itself bad, but must be fitting for the correct time and place (this also is dictated by cultural norms)… this is far from being a prudish standpoint, “soccer mom” mentality, or even close to being “wrong”…. It is called being mature and responsible, as well as respecting those around you.

THAT is what will hurt paintball as a sport, not just one issue of porn bags.

(Side note: For those who just seem to miss the point, a nude body is not in itself the problem. A nude body posed in a sexually explicit manner, or used for the purpose of causing sexual arousal is PORNOGRAPHY. It is the intended purpose of the nude body that is the issue, not that skin is shown.

I would not have a single problem bringing my kids to an art show that happened to have nude portraits in it. But I would not bring my kids to a Pornography Show… but they both have naked bodies, right? I also allow my kids to watch Educational shows that show nude people in them, either to explain the human body, or if that happens to be the cultural dress of the people being documented. But I would not allow my kids to sit and watch “Debby does Dallas”. But they both have naked people in them right?

I also have NO problems with life size posters of women modeling underwear, but DO have a problem with women in underwear modeling a Paintball Marker.

Folks can disagree with me, I don’t mind at all. But I will not let someone try to act like my opinions make ME a bad person when they are the responsible thing to do and not only a part of good parenting, but make me a respectful and responsible member of society. I am not “mad”, but I am concerned.)

[MarkM]

Originally posted by magman007
OK now see? its already gotten to the USA!


KEv, if you remember, facefull is a french magazine, as is PGI... both of them are not below printing a picture of that barrel blocking device...


Thats another thing, we changed the name just because it may offend some people, it used to be barrel condom, well not any more! Whether it was up tight, or what ever, it offended some one, and you know what? we just cant do that. Why not just print the F word on a barrel condom?


This falls right in with pro's cursing within earshot of mother and child, not a good thing is it? nope! this is just in eye shot of mother and child


As for the skate decks, well, if you notice, graphisc dont last long enough to have any one see it, so its a moot point. one good grind, and say chao to those cool graphics you paid for





Originally posted by TJ 2
Please inform those nice people that PGI is printed in the UK...and also that we don't carry nipple shots cos then we might struggle a lil bit getting onto tha US newsstands.

And as we ship tens of thousands of copies every month that'd be just a lil bit silly of us.

Defend your country of origin Mark!




Guys PGI French ?????? Its English !!! whatever political psychological mumbo jumbo you want to apply to the original post subject go ahead but don't ever compare the English to the French ! (read a couple of accurate history books (that might be a little difficult to find such books within the US though ;))and you will see why. Oh and for anyones infomation the regulation or rather the lack of it with regards to pornographic material in France is a joke when compared to England, a couple of rulings have been relaxed within the UK but animals etc are free game within France not the UK. I do notice that my pointing out of the connection of Smart Parts to this product from the actual ownership of the company well and truly was ignored, why do people only want to believe what they think they see?

[Manning26]

This is fairly simple, the Europeans are getting the bare-breasted barrel-condoms, and us Americans are getting the bikini-babes. Not a huge deal. Now if any of my fellow Americans have a problem with bikini-clad ladies, then you ARE prudish. If you're worried about a kid coming home with one and getting grounded from the sport, then his/her parents need to be a bit more on the ball. It's a ridiculous concern anyway.

"Son, I saw a girl in a bikini in your paintball magazine... YOU'RE NEVER PLAYING WITH THOSE HOOLIGANS AGAIN!!!" I'm not saying this scenario is impossible, although very unlikely. C'mon kids, I think many of you are blowing this a bit out of proportion. I see your concern, and it's great to have such vigilance in our ranks, but come on.

Good day to you all.;)

[magman007]

OK, sorry bout the misslabeling, i wanted to say acefull is french, and pgi is european too... Sorry for that



Now, who remembers the first facefull? I do! it had 2 wet teshirted girls on them. both of which you could easlily make out the full breast and the nipple. This was done to grab your attention. And hell it worked! they selled tons! but im saying face full is not above printing that

[InfinatyBPS]

Oh, shartley, my post was a joke, I was in no way serious, I shoulda added a winkey eye after the roll eyes :) So ya...

Oh and also I'm pretty sure nobody is going to be wacking off while looking at their barrel condom:rolleyes: :p

[leadpig]

1- pgi is printed in the uk not france
2- how do you call a toppless woman pornography(theres toppless woman on page three of a lot of newspapers)
3- if you don't like them don't buy them,there not doing any real harm:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[magman007]

She is in a sexualy sugestive posistion with the words SPUNK writtin next to her. She is there for the point of gaining attention, and directing your line of sight to her breasts to try to get a rise(whether mental or other wise) out of you.


Apparently most of us agree, this probabally wont be a good thing ,and they probabally wont last long

[daveymag]

Yeah your right magman, this isn't a good thing, and paintball will disapear off the face of the planet because of this barrell condom. God save our souls! :rolleyes:

[shartley]

That is not what he, or anyone else, was saying. Some of you need to get a clue…. This is really starting to get stupid. It is a shame when we can’t have a mature, rational and logical conversation on AO without getting such immature comments.

[daveymag]

Well if you don't like where the conversation is going, don't read it. No one is forcing you to read what I'm writing. The barrell condom with a half naked woman on it isn't hurting anyone. If you don't like the condom, than don't buy it. But serriously though, I must thank you magman for showing them to me, best money I ever spent.
It's not like that as of now we are receiving huge ammounts of publicity for paintball as it is. This isn't the icecapades, it's an "extreme sport", and I want my nudity! Have you guys ever heard of "Angel Heaven" Where there are scantely clad, and even naked women dancing around in a tent after a tournament. This is all put on by WDP, maybe you should protest that, and not some stupid barrell condom. :rolleyes:

[shartley]

Originally posted by daveymag
Well if you don't like where the conversation is going, don't read it. No one is forcing you to read what I'm writing. The barrell condom with a half naked woman on it isn't hurting anyone. If you don't like the condom, than don't buy it. But serriously though, I must thank you magman for showing them to me, best money I ever spent.
It's not like that as of now we are receiving huge ammounts of publicity for paintball as it is. This isn't the icecapades, it's an "extreme sport", and I want my nudity! Have you guys ever heard of "Angel Heaven" Where there are scantely clad, and even naked women dancing around in a tent after a tournament. This is all put on by WDP, maybe you should protest that, and not some stupid barrell condom. :rolleyes:
Well, you just proved my point better than I could ever hope to myself.

As for the “Angel Heaven”, you may not remember, but a bunch of us DID complain about that. And a lot more complained about other “adult” style entertainment or happenings the went on at public events. But the simple fact is, that THIS thread was about the barrel condoms, NOT the other things you mentioned. And as I have said, they have already been discussed in great detail here on AO.

While I can respect your personal opinion on nudity in public places or at public events, I can not respect your acting like those of us who don’t think it is appropriate are saying something we are NOT saying. And you missed that point all together. You would rather shout at the top of your lungs how you want what you want and screw anybody who feels differently.

We did not say these barrel condoms would bring down Paintball as a sport or industry. And I for one am glad that all paintball players don’t feel as you do, or else paintball WOULD cease to exist as a respectable sport. Some of us think a little farther than our sexual desires and our penis’. For some of us, Paintball is about the sport.

Again, I thank you for your post, it helped prove my point better than I could have myself.

[RRfireblade]

Basically all these things are self regulating.SP is a business like everything else.If "most" people are against it they won't sell and they will stop making them.(Pump kits,Zgrips,slug bodies ring a bell?)
As I already stated,the more attention you all bring to it,the more people take an interest.Have you every heard there is no such thing as bad publicity?It's true.Remember the rap group "2live crew"? They SUCKED!If they had not tried to ban that CD it would have died a lowly quiet death.But instead all the uproar caused it to go Platnum!The sold 100x more because of bad publicity.
Simply if you don't like it fine,I don't judge anyone for thier own personal views,but this type of thing does not help your case.Don't buy one and if the majority agree,it will die on it's own.


Jay.

[Manning26]

Shartley, I hope I'm not one of the immature people you're referring to.

So tell us what we should do about this. Why exactly is this going to hurt our sport?

I'm a poppa, and I agree, I don't want my son seeing porn all over the field, but we're talking about bikinis! European kids see breasts all the time, so their deal is equal to ours. Are you going to complain to someone at the next tourney because they've got a woman in her undies on their gun? This argument carries over into t.v. and periodicals... do you cover your little one's eyes when you're changing the channels in case Bay Watch flips by? I suppose I'm just curious where you draw the line?

[shartley]

Originally posted by Manning26
Shartley, I hope I'm not one of the immature people you're referring to.

So tell us what we should do about this. Why exactly is this going to hurt our sport?

I'm a poppa, and I agree, I don't want my son seeing porn all over the field, but we're talking about bikinis! European kids see breasts all the time, so their deal is equal to ours. Are you going to complain to someone at the next tourney because they've got a woman in her undies on their gun? This argument carries over into t.v. and periodicals... do you cover your little one's eyes when you're changing the channels in case Bay Watch flips by? I suppose I'm just curious where you draw the line?
Actually you are not who I was referring to….

And if you read again, you will see we are not discussing bikinis, we are discussing topless and or fully nude. The topic of this thread was not how bikini’s affect our sport, but pornography (see again, topless suggestive poses, and or full nudity). I don’t think we are that far off in our way of thinking at all.

No, I will not complain to someone at the next tourney (or any field) because someone has a picture of a girl in a swimsuit on their equipment. Now if it is topless or nude… you bet!

I personally don’t think paintball should be a Victoria’s Secret show, or Hottest Swimsuit Girl Show, but that is not even close to topless displays or full nudity. And it comes down to what is socially acceptable in the location the event is being held at. If in Europe, these standards would be greatly different than what we have here in the United States.

I also think that if you actually read what I wrote, it is quite clear where I personally draw the line. I left NO doubt where I stand on various issues. No, I don’t cover my children’s eyes while changing the TV channels, and in fact we as a family have watched TV Specials on Human Reproduction, Human Sexuality, and similar things that have nudity in them, as well as documentaries of societies that are almost always naked. We have even watched movies that have naked breasts and other body parts, as well as brief sexual content (not full blown porn however). (Oh, and my “little ones” range from 2 to 20 years old. ;))

I don’t “shelter” my children. But I also believe that what my children see and don’t see is up to ME, as their parent. And this should not be taken into the hand of some thoughtless person who could care less about displaying public nudity or sexual content in front of my children or wife. What they do in private, or with their own family is up to them, but when in a public situation we must all follow the acceptable norms of behavior and exhibiting of nude (and more so pornographic) materials. That is a simple issue of respect. Don’t force others to view pornography. It is that simple.

And it is not a matter of “well, you can look the other way. I am not forcing you to look.”, because honestly, how would you KNOW to look the other way unless you SAW it in the first place. We can choose to not go into a bar, or not go into an adult entertainment establishment with our families and children, but that choice would be taken away from us by those who would think it is okay to display pornography on their paintball gear and display it in a public place.

Am I Bible Thumper? Heck no. Am I saying this is the end of the world? Heck no. Am I against pornography? Heck, HECK no! But this thread was started by a young man who had a real question and genuine concern for our sport and how the general public views it. And some here would like to claim that those that think NUDE and PORNOGRAPHIC images on paintball gear (in the United States) is not appropriate for public settings (but that folks can buy them all they want if they keep them to themselves) are saying that it will bring Paintball down as a sport. That was NEVER said, nor even insinuated.

And some of us here, even on different sides of the issue are able to have rational and mature discussions on the matter, while others are clearly only interested in themselves and their own fun, as well as misrepresenting what others have actually said. Like I said, if you go back and read every one of my posts… word for word.. I think we are not that far off in our views. And even if we are, I am not blowing anything out of proportion, or making a big deal out of things. I was only stating my opinions in a calm and rational manner.

[daveymag]

It all comes down to one thing. If you don't like it, don't buy it. No one is forcing you to buy it. No one is forcing you to look at it. If you don't like something, the only good way to make it go away is by ignoring it, and it's pretty sad to see that so many of you don't understand that.

[shartley]

Originally posted by daveymag
It all comes down to one thing. If you don't like it, don't buy it. No one is forcing you to buy it. No one is forcing you to look at it. If you don't like something, the only good way to make it go away is by ignoring it, and it's pretty sad to see that so many of you don't understand that.
Again, you don’t truly understand…. If you bring pornography into a public place you ARE forcing people to look at it, and THAT is the point. LOL Sure, if folks don’t want to BUY it, they don’t have to. But when you bring your choices into a public place you are not giving those around you the same choice YOU gave yourself.

And THAT is what you don’t understand. I agree with everything you are saying about personal choices in buying things, but you are most definitely wrong about your choice to LOOK at something.
:rolleyes:

[Manning26]

My laziness is keeping me from quoting you, but it's actually unecessary. I say I DO agree with what you're saying, it is a respect thing. Here, I'll go ahead and say something completely absurd, I'd be more upset at seeing these at a rec. field than at, say, an NPPL event. I suppose that would be due to the kid to adult ratio. Although, I'd more than likely just roll my eyes at the person with it, and end it there. You must admit, it takes a special personality to actually use a nudie-girl ANYTHING at the field. The guy would probably hack ya' off doin' something else anyway.

Still, I suppose my point was that we shouldn't be seeing many of these topless versions over here. I was fighting my own fight off to the side of everyone elses'.;)

I'm blabberin' on now, need a nappy.

[daveymag]

See the thing is Sam, is that I would bring it to my local field, PGI, the field in which my team owns. The people that attend this field are the same people that play tournament paintball in Minnesota. I know just about every person that plays in the tourny seen in Mn, and I can honestly say that not one of them would be offended by this. Would I take this to a field filled with newbies? Of course not. I know better than that. Would I take this to a field where there would be children younger than 15 playing? No. I am possitive that where I play, no one would be offended by this. That is why I purchased it. I do have respect for people Sam, I know what is right and wrong. I guess that is just something that I didn't express in my other posts.

[shartley]

Thank you both. I think we came to a much better understanding of each others TRUE position on the matter. We may not all still agree on every point, but when a respectful and honest understanding is reached THAT is what it is all about.

[Manning26]

Big hugs all around.;)