Y-Frame First Look

[AGD]

AO,

We have started to take a look at the Y frame concept and its starting out on a rocky road. We of course want it to be compatible with DYE grips like the Iframes but when you put the two together this is what you get below. Please eyeball this and make your sugestions for what we should do.

If we move the bottom of the frame down with the grip the distance to the trigger is too large. If we leave it where it is you have to cut the grip up in stupid ways and it will not look Gucci.

I am hoping you guys can figure something out.

AGD

[Reo5th]

Looks good!

[Badabing]

Maybe you can get some special grips made from Dye to fit the Y Frame.

[Dragoon]

Why not use a grip pannel insteat of the wrap around.

Douglas

[Creative Mayhem]

Originally posted by AGD
If we move the bottom of the frame down with the grip the distance to the trigger is too large. If we leave it where it is you have to cut the grip up in stupid ways and it will not look Gucci.


AGD

Gucci? LOL:D

It's looking good so far, maybe you need someone to make a custom grip from scratch just for the Y frame. HMM who could do that? I know, Heather! What do you think? I know you could do something with this.. :D :cool:

C Mayhem

[virus]

ehh... i'm generaly one that is open to strange ideas and such.... and i'm probly going to get one of these no matter what....

my only gripe so far... not enough angle forward.... maybe 1/2way between this and the old (better IMHO) Z's angle....

other wise as far as grips go.... just the nature of how i, and i'm sure others that shoot a Z, if any of my fingers are wraped around the grip frame itself... it is most likely just the pinky.... my ring finger, if not being used to pull the trigger, it is laying or hooking on the lower part of the trigger gaurd and not around the frame..... so really grip panels should work fine... as the only part of my hand that would benifit from a grip(like item) would be the area between my index finger and thumb..... and even that is not needed

[AGD]

Grip planels are a good option and we have Houges in stock from the last batch of Z's. If you dont mind those that solves the problem.

AGD

[Xerces]

dont mind? i love the hogues!

[BajaBoy]

i think it would look great finished

[pito189]

Originally posted by AGD
If we move the bottom of the frame down with the grip the distance to the trigger is too large. If we leave it where it is you have to cut the grip up in stupid ways and it will not look Gucci.


I don't quite understand by what you mean the distance to the trigger? Just move the bottom back, make it like 85-89* or something like that if you are trying to avoid patent infringements.

[magman007]

tom, can you tilt the actuall stickey, and then make the frame fit? also, use the stickey 3's from dye, those may be a little more open to what you had in mind. they seem to be a little more versatile, and they may fit the y grip just right

[Python14]

Panels would be fine. For me personally atlease(and we all know Mr. Kaye bases all of his decisions on what I think;) ), Stickies are useless as I use gloves, as do many players. So yea. Panels are cool. I take it that it will be intellifeed capable, no? Either way, it looks good and when I get my backup mag next month, I'll be more than eager to put a Y-frame on it.

[Doobie]

As long as the panel is rubberized/gummy I would like it. The hard panels kinda suck if you get sweat/paint on them. One of the big complaints I have with the Hypeframe grips.

[pbguy888]

Will these work without any fore grip extenders? For example would it work on my Micromag , with the foregrip on?

[Automaggin2]

Lookin good, but i think it looks a little to wide? no?

[covadsucks]

Looks Great! Can't wait to see some of the completed prototypes in action.

[Sinnet]

panels would be great!

[Schnitzel]

why not these?

http://www.dyeprecision.com/images/hardparts/sticky/Grip_flat-clear.gif

[mag-hatter]

lol agd, looks like pbr beat you to it.

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=102580

i hope the agd version looks better :p :p

[JEDI]

I say go with the grip panels if it solves the problem. Conventional grips (stickies) are rarely held in the conventional manner as we all know. I like the slim feel of my Emag panel grips, minus the hump on the back of my old grip frame.(I've got a ULE frame now)

Some times wrap around grips make the grip frame feel too beefy.

[RetroEclipseMan]

I think it looks pretty good. The grip does look a bit wider than the i-frame but I think once it's actually in solid form it will look right. I agree a nice set of panel grips will look nice.

[Kevmaster]

IF i were going to get one, I would personally go for the Dye pannel stickies. I think that woudl solve a lotta problems

[virus]

Originally posted by AGD
Grip planels are a good option and we have Houges in stock from the last batch of Z's. If you dont mind those that solves the problem.

AGD

hehe.... want another set to add to that collection.... i kinda got some nice custom panels on my current Z now =)

[sithos]

It might be difficult to get DYE to make custom grips, but perhaps someone at AGD might be able to manufacture them.

Photoshoped the image to get what i think would be a reasonable design based on the shape of the frame.

[Automaggin2]

Why dont you get frymarker to design some custom grips for you? that would be freakin cool

[HoboJudge]

Panel grips are fine. Those dye ones look good, but others could be substituted also. The tilt angle looks good to me.

[spantol]

Seconded.


Originally posted by Automaggin2
Why dont you get frymarker to design some custom grips for you? that would be freakin cool

[Darkling]

Looks good, but what was ever wrong with the original Z-Grips? I love those things and was looking forward to the intelli-Z, but I guess that's not happening anymore? :(

Darkling

[56kSomeGuy]

Just a thought why can't AGD make the frame use angel ir3 grips since you do know that Dye will make some after-market grips for the ir3 sometime or latter and it would fit without any cutting or maybe i'm just talking nonsense...

[FooTemps]

oo! why not use "biomorphic materials"? Then you'd have one of the super cool advertising technical terms!

[FooTemps]

also... how about a little more angle?
it's not much more but I think that a little bit more angle would be nice. (the attached image was just an idea i had for the z-roller to compare up to the g-grip)

[dansim]

couldnt you just turn the grips around?

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by dansim
couldnt you just turn the grips around?

one question... why?

[BlackVCG]

The way in which most people will hold the grip makes finger grooves in the grips pointless. Use panel grips and move on with the design. DYE grips aren't THAT important.

[ICOM]

So tom, will you be making these for the lovely emag owners?

[bofh]

Originally posted by dansim
couldnt you just turn the grips around?

Dang, I was going to say that.

if you turn the grips around, it looks like it would fit perfectly. Wasn't the first insperation for the y-grip a turned around frame?

[RetroEclipseMan]

Don't know if I'm close or not but I think the reason AGD is going with this design is because the original Z-Grips had too much of an angle to them and made it hard for some people to get used to. I think this design will be a bit more popular just since it's not sloped as much as well as it appears that you don't have to use a forgrip extender with it. Dang, it looks like I may have to buy one now.

[Cyberious]

I like them and think the grip panels are fine. Any chance of making one at a later time for the X-Mag? Ok so that may be difficult. I would think if you also produced them for something common like the cocker you may be able to gain added business if there wouldn't be too much trouble re-tooling for that.

[Will Wood]

Looks sweet.

[TheJester]

umm, what's the benifit of this? just an intelli z-grip?

[Bunny]

Originally posted by Automaggin2
Why dont you get frymarker to design some custom grips for you? that would be freakin cool

please:D

[Shadow221]

Here's my idea. Just move the trigger gurad a bit. Then you can move the stickies around and change the position of the screw holes until it fits correctly Just move it up a bit so the bottom of the grip doesn't hang off the bottom of the frame. I made this in paint so it looks pretty bad but you get the idea...right?

So...what do ya think?

[Fred]

Judging from the drawing they want to use the stock I-frame trigger and blade trigger in this badboy... so moving the trigger guard like that would not work to your advantage.

I totally dig it!!! WOW!

Can they be made for the Emag???

Its times like this that I really hate how I'm stepping away from paintball until I graduate in 04...

---Fred

[Schnitzel]

Can they be made for the Emag???

according to tom, unfortunately no. he said the position of the solenoid is optimal in the position it is in the emag. incorporating it into the y-grip would mean the solenoid would protrude out of the frame.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Schnitzel


according to tom, unfortunately no. he said the position of the solenoid is optimal in the position it is in the emag. incorporating it into the y-grip would mean the solenoid would protrude out of the frame.

that's why we have the contour frame... lol

[Mossman]

I've got beef with it.
Look at Shadow's Pic above.
Think about holding it, its a little brother to the Z grip.

Now hold your hand like you're shooting a 45. Now rotate your hand, but not your shooting fingers, 30* so they're at the Y grip angle. What the hell are your shooting fingers doing? They need to move too!

I feel like if you move the placement of your bottom fingers but not the shooting fingers you're gonna hurt rather than help the frame design.

This is a mini Z grip, and the trigger angle and positioning needs to follow its big brother...at least 1/3 of the way :)

[Blennidae]

This will probably be unpopular, but here it goes...

I guess I'm just old fashioned. I just don't see this as something that would work for me.

Everyone seems to want a new "z-grip" type frame, but I don't ever see anything simillar on the field. The original has been out for years, so there has been plenty of time for the knock off makers to make simillar products. If there was a real high demand for this style of grip, wouldn't there be more of them out there?

I don't think this would be the runaway hit that the L10 and Intelliframe were.

As for the original question about the grips. I don't think you will be able to please everyone. If you don't make it compatible with dye grips, someone will complain. If you change the design to fit them, someone will complain about the functionality.

Just my opinion.

[Smitty2k1]

Are you going to make the front of the finger guard be a bit further back than the I-Frame so there is no interference with the Fore-Grips? Also, these are intellifeedable (<--- if thats a word :)) Right?

[BTAutoMag]

Originally posted by Mossman
I've got beef with it.
Look at Shadow's Pic above.
Think about holding it, its a little brother to the Z grip.

Now hold your hand like you're shooting a 45. Now rotate your hand, but not your shooting fingers, 30* so they're at the Y grip angle. What the hell are your shooting fingers doing? They need to move too!

I feel like if you move the placement of your bottom fingers but not the shooting fingers you're gonna hurt rather than help the frame design.

This is a mini Z grip, and the trigger angle and positioning needs to follow its big brother...at least 1/3 of the way :)

i agree, tilt the trigger a little bit so that it follows the line of the frame

[Shadow221]

Hmm...you make good points. I'll try and revise my idea. Perhaps I can come up with something that'll work better.

[Tunaman]

I dont like it at all...too close to the z grip. I say go with a straight 90 degree like the IR3. THAT would look cool, and I bet the grips would still work. Just my 49 cents...;)

[luke]

Looks Good. DYE grips are not that important. Build it. :D

[pito189]

Originally posted by Tunaman
I dont like it at all...too close to the z grip. I say go with a straight 90 degree like the IR3. THAT would look cool, and I bet the grips would still work. Just my 49 cents...;)

I agree I would buy a 90* frame in a heartbeat. I spoke e-mailed the guy I think from fearfactorypb, and he said putting a Ir3 frame on an E-Mag wouldn't be that hard. Does anybody know if the holes even line up?

[JAM]

Originally posted by Tunaman
I dont like it at all...too close to the z grip. I say go with a straight 90 degree like the IR3. THAT would look cool, and I bet the grips would still work. Just my 49 cents...;)

I'll add my $.01 to Tunaman's suggestion... 90 degrees would give the most flexibility in shooting style.

-j

[rikkter]

i agree with Tuna. its just a smaller version of the z grip.. i was kinda expecting it to be very similar to the ir3 grip.

also. why not kinda have a shrowd type grip. like have part of the grip on the back part as well. shaped like a palm or however someoneholds the gun in that position so it would be very comfortable..
hope that made sense..

[luke]

I don't quite understand by what you mean the distance to the trigger? Just move the bottom back, make it like 85-89* or something like that if you are trying to avoid patent infringements.
I do believe Tom owns the patent.

[mtnkid82]

Im also for the 90* angle too. I would buy a 90* frame in a heartbeat ! then you wouldnt have to mess w/ the angle of the trigger .and I say go for the panel grips. just putting in me .37 cents :c)
PS I cant wait to put one of these on my baby !!!!!

[AcemanPB]

I was hoping for something more along the lines of the IR3 frame. So yeah I too agree with tuna. You really need to round out the frame.

[EsPo]

looking good! msrp?

[confedman75]

Why can't you just channel it? By getting a box cutter and cut down the middle where the grips are sealed at. So that the guard can go through the grip. Would there be any problems with that? Tom why can you just drill the holes in the grip differantly so they line up with the grip. Stop being so stubborn ;)

[Snake847]

I say stay with the old Z style and just mod the inside to accept the Intelle conversion. Much easier.

[FooTemps]

Well, it could be used as a roller trigger frame. If you want to operate it normally, you'd have to tilt the trigger for it to work properly. The frame just doesn't work with the trigger.

I'm guess you rushed this design tom... Just think about it. Hold your hand at that angle and then try to fire the trigger normally. If you make an adjustible trigger without telling us I'll sell my co2 tank and buy a flatline (oh wait, i'm already doing that)

[sneakyhacker420]

mill some finger grooves into the front of the trigger frame below the trigger guard, and then just use some pannel grips like the Z-grip... or just Re-Manufacture the z-grip... so many people like them... i love the feel of them, but i never was able to get ahold of one :(

[Riot[Z-Grip]]

I may just be confused, but wasn't the original idea of the Y-Frame to make a Z-Grip-like E-Mag grip? Maybe I'm just remembering events wrong. If it's just a Z-Grip's little brother with intellifeed mount, who really cares? I love my original Z, and I wouldn't change the angle for anything. Unless AGD can find a way to make they Y-Frame electro, I think it would be better just to make the run of Intellli-Z's. (Would anyone here who would buy a non-electro Y-Frame NOT buy an Intelli-Z if that was the option? Probably my opinion doesn't speak for all, just tell me if I'm way off.)

EDIT: In anycase, panel grips are fine. Like someone posted earlier, most people wear gloves. Just make the panels rubberized and everyone will be happy enough.

-Riot

[FooTemps]

If the intelli-z is cheaper than the y frame, i want the intelli-z. This is because the y-frame isn't very thought out from what we know so far. Fix the trigger problem.

[vaypourus]

Can somebody remind me why the angle of the original Z-grip was thrown out? I own a Z-grip myself, and I find the angle to be very comfortable. I wanted to see a modified version ( I remember talk of the Intelli-Z a while back) instead of a whole new design. This reminds me of the IR3 grip, which I really do not like as far as looks or feel are concerned.

Am I the only one that doesn't like the look of this compared to the original Z? I had planned on selling my Z-grip and getting one of the new ones, but now I might just end of not buying one of these at all:(

[cheetah256]

it took em a really long time to sell off the first batch of z's...

anyway, if these are available for classic RT, i'd definitely conisider it : )

[PsychoMag]

obviously it will never work that way, since the DYE grips are for a 45 frame, and the Y frame is definitely not. Why not use DYE panels backwards???

[joeyjoe367]

Lookin' good AGD :) Screw the dye grips, or job it out to frymarker :)

I guess having heather make like a bajillion grips would be a bit lame... I guess the people who want them ( me included) can go get custom grips from her.

Go with panels, and chug some of these puppies out :)


oh, and hurry with my ULE body please :) My mainbody-less RT needs sexiness :)

[Ityl]

WDP got it right with the space frame. It's the most versatile.

[shade23]

well I don't know if this would work but its not that hard to get a black fill substance and fill in the screw holes that won't work and place new ones in. other than that this is the cut work I could concieve that would not interfere with trigger travel. but maybe its not feasible just my .02

[Cryer]

Am I correct in assuming that this frame is simply a backwards 45* frame? If so, get some simple grip panels, and put them on backwards...(put the right panel on the left side of the frame...etc...)
Still, I would definately prefer an IR3-style frame. And what about snatch/fang grips on the back of the frames? we should have those, too.

[Nomad]

*Sigh* Here's what two hours of cracking my head on a wall and staring at this thing came up with.

The trigger would be have to be redesigned so that a section of it stuck out to push the sear back. Although I'm guessing you guys and AGD already thought of that when you first designed the Z-grip, right??

There are a few problems with my idea though.

1)Installation would be a pain with the trigger in the way.

2) The mini drop may not accept some CA adaptors like the duck bill (though it can be solved if you cut the drop properly).

Other then that, I can't see too many problems... I think.

[Jerhew]

here's another way to make room for stickies...make it old skool custom style-don't connect the trigger guard at the bottom...
ask Glenn Palmer(or his son Craig)...they'll know exactly what i mean... :D

[Jerhew]

http://www.paintmagazine.com/pog/pics/memberspics/toker/Trigger.gif

[Jerhew]

the grip looks a little funny on it...but its a possible solution...

[The Frymarker]

Okay Tom if you need my opinion here goes.....


Well for one Dyes will never fit one there, and so is the case with the Emag frame, it would have to be custom.

The are a few reason's why it is hard for AGD to make a custom grip....for one to make a metal mold takes time and 2 it is unbelievably expensive. It would be made with injection molding.


I say go with panels, panels are a easy solution.


If customer's want me to make a custom grip for that frame not a problem if it will be easy for me to buy a frame. I'm up for the challenge.

Mostly all the time even if you put stock grips on frames, customers always buy a different pair, so go with the panels.

[Jonesie]

Any chance we can get the actual CAD files to work with. I know they would be a great help to me!

Thanks ~ Jonesie

[shartley]

I agree with Heather to just stick panel grips on it. Then you can let after market folks sell grips for it… put out a good frame with acceptable grips, and let others upgrade if they want. The grips are not IMHO the thing AGD needs to really worry about, it is the frame itself.

As for after market grips for it, I would even give it a shot. I have some new rubber coming in soon and would also not have a problem tackling either wrap around grips, panel wraps, or panels (made of harder rubber or even more gel style).

So again, folks will still have options for after market grips… Heather and Myself being at least two sources.

[kenshinkandon]

I vote for keeping the grip panels and ditch the Dye grips.

[EsPo]

round off the bottom a bit?

[Hoplon]

My humble idea.

[shartley]

Question…. What would be the purpose of a finger gripped grip when you can’t get your fingers ON it? I might suggest some of you go back and rethink your designs. ;)

[Xerces]

excellent point shartley

i think that panels are fine. agd needs to worry about the best design for the frame and not about shoveling more money into dye.

[Impy-rocks]

the idea of the design looks good but i dont think that having panels is that big of deal... most people that ive seen that use a z dont wrap there fingers around the frame anyways, but i also dont know if this applies to the y-frame also....

-later

[hitech]

Originally posted by shartley
I agree with Heather to just stick panel grips on it.

As for after market grips...folks will still have options for after market grips? Heather and Myself being at least two sources.

Just wanted to put in my two cents worth. I would agree also.

[thevilduk]

here is my idea, lets not worry about the little things and get the things rolling cause i need a friggen grip frame on my mag!

Or you know panals work too.

[smilestyler]

I suggest going with panel grips. I wouldn't dare put a set of stickies on mine (if I had one). Are these going to be the aprox. price as the intelliframe?

[AGD]

Ok we will work on panel grips. I will close this thread and be back with another once we get closer.

thanks!!


AGD