What happened to the 16bps industry cap?

[Scootyd]

While reading last night I came across an article snippet for alkamp anouncing that they are releasing new software that will allow over 16bps and allow users to change dwell etc.

Then I come across the e-orracle add that says capable of 16+ bps without chopping.

Has the industry given up on the cap?

Will we get upgrades to open up our mags?

With hybrid mode 13bps is easily reachable and 16 probably isn't that far away when I get used to the gun. Will that be the limit forever?

[LaW]

does it really matter?

[Scootyd]

It matters when my local field is overrun with Angels and Cockers. I have the need to prove that mags are the real deal.

[Blazingace]

I was actually wondering about that myself. I have an E-mag that is capable of 30+ BPS and the silly thing is capped at 16????

[LaW]

And what are the chances of someone being able to hold down 16bps at a constant rate? Yeah pretty slim.....

[Evil Bob]

Law, almost all of the electro manufacturers offer a full auto option or user programmable modes that will allow you to setup full auto, where it is quite easy to attain and sustain rates of fire above 16bps.

This is the reason why Tom went and created the full auto high rate of fire videos to show how destructive high rate of fire can be, just watch him tearing through ManCow's lacky's shirt, he shreds it.

It seems that none of the manufacturers are holding to the agreement, even Tom has given up since all the competitors offer full auto and RoF's above 16bps.

I'm just waiting for the day that the insurance companies call it quits and force a limit on the manufacturers or refuse to allow fields to allow their use, it's only a matter of time.

-Evil Bob

[Matt Crawford]

if you got an emag, and really want the higher bbs, just get an emagnum board...When mine get to me in the next week or so I'm just gonna set it at around 25bps...I'll never get to it, but its just cool to have and show off to people off the field what your gun can do...

[Dayspring]

Fields already ban full-auto. At least most of the good ones do.

And Tom hasn't given up. None of his guns come with a F/A option. They are all semi auto. If you can pull fast enough, then fine, but it's still one pull/one ball. THAT's the safety issue...

One ball on an accidental trigger pull versus MANY balls on an accidental pull.


Originally posted by Evil Bob
Law, almost all of the electro manufacturers offer a full auto option or user programmable modes that will allow you to setup full auto, where it is quite easy to attain and sustain rates of fire above 16bps.

This is the reason why Tom went and created the full auto high rate of fire videos to show how destructive high rate of fire can be, just watch him tearing through ManCow's lacky's shirt, he shreds it.

It seems that none of the manufacturers are holding to the agreement, even Tom has given up since all the competitors offer full auto and RoF's above 16bps.

I'm just waiting for the day that the insurance companies call it quits and force a limit on the manufacturers or refuse to allow fields to allow their use, it's only a matter of time.

-Evil Bob

[Scootyd]

Law has a very real point, however that isn't my real intention.

There was a percieved industry standard that we are watching be abandoned.

I can see the ill argument of mags are blenders being replaced with mags are capped at only 16bps.

I agree with law that the whole argument is sensless but I believe that most marketing information is sensless fluff dealt out to the sensless masses.

My local field is down to only 3 regulars who are mag users. We know that we have a good product but are always being handed the sensless fluff as gospel that we are wrong and stupid for not following the pack.

I have been working on my new micro-e through the winter with a mission in mind this summer. I do believe practical intellegence will probably not change the masses but I hope to make them question the information they work with.

[LaW]

Since fullauto is not allowed at fields in the first place the argument is still pointless. Have fun shooting this one out :rolleyes:

[dansim]

why should we stay at 16 when everyone else is going beyond it?

[Evil Bob]

You're correct, most reputable fields disallow the use of full auto, but how do you check to see if someone is using full auto or not?

In this day and age, it's difficult to tell who's using it and who isn't. This is where user programability creates serious issues. It is possible to program a mode that appears to be semi auto ("look ref, it says "Semi Auto") until a certain number of trigger pulls are registered, at which point the user can pull the trigger at any rate they want (just go through the motions) and the marker will spray at a rediculas rate of fire. Then if the marker isn't fired for a given ammount of time, it drops back to semi auto. This setup prevents easy detection by the refs checking the marker and the chrono teams.

This type of setup I have seen personally both on rec fields and in local and international tournies, and all of those locations where full auto was clearly banned.

Yes, Tom did give up, he's gone beyond the 16bps cap, look at the XMag with the ACE on and tell me where it's capped at. Very true that he does not offer full auto anymore, nor does he allow the end user to mess around with the programming anymore, but he's not going to lose business to the "Hey, don't buy a mag, everyone knows they don't shoot fast enough" crowd either.

This is not a pointless discussion, it's a real issue right now.

-Evil Bob

[Wc Keep]

i say they just get rid of electronic triggers. jk. but anything over 16 bps is mighty dangerous. imagine someone getting lit up with that for 2 seconds.

[cphilip]

A "Gentelmans" agreement is only as good as the Gentelmen agreeing to it...

[kenshinkandon]

If you wnat the option of full auto on an emag buy an emagnum board for your marker it will allow you to shoot full auto and all the modes of fire you could want.


If you look at alot of newer markers that are coming alot of them do not have full auto, a couple of them are

IR3
Matrix
Intimidator (I think)

I think in the future you'll see more manufacturs removing full auto from there equipment because it's dangerous and little to no one uses it.

[Kevmaster]

hell...at hte IAO in '99 the PB industry agreed to ban ALL modes(Burst, Turbo, FA) forever...you see how far that got :rolleyes: I can name one company that went out and changed their markers to be semi only

[1stdeadeye]

My X-Mag came from the factory with a pre-set limit of 20 BPS.

[einhander619]

Full auto is useless anymore and I think that nowadays it is a sign of a gun manufacturer trying too hard. Just look at an electro spyder, all the firing modes are listed under "features." On high quality electros that will mostly be used in tourneys, there is usually a semi only board option (i.e. gz timmies.) I don't know about you guys, but using modes at my field is a sure sign that you are a noob or a poser. As for the bps cap, screw it. It's in AGD's best interest to market mags to the current paintball world as terrifyingly fast, non-chopping semiauto only guns.

[Blazingace]

You have to look at the rate of fire as a maximum. Even if you can pull faster than 16 the gun will only fire 16. I like the semi auto only guns, but I think that they should be set up to infinite rates of fire. Your skill on the trigger and discipline should dictate your rate. The issue was not full auto, but the rate cap.

[SHAZAM-AGD]

it all boils down to liability....the manufacturs will always get pinched in the end no matter how much insurance the have...

[Umbra Solis]

I agree with removing FA, but I strongly disagree with the cap. Why should players who have trained themselves to fire at insane rates be limited? And if they're going to put down a cap, they should stop advertising how fast a marker can fire without the cap! I find that to be quite tourturos. It's like saying "Your gun can fire at x bps, but you'll never get to see it."

[Blazingace]

Amen Umbra. The E-Mag with Emagnum board will shoot 30+. 1stDeadeye said his X-mag was capped at 20,but the rest of us are only 16. Remove the cap and eliminate full auto.

[Little Matt]

ok, question. I thought emags can shoot 20 bps. Atleast thats the way they are advertised. So theres a "cap" or limitation that keeps a person from shooting more than 16 bps? Can this be changed to higher your rate of fire in semi-auto? Or is the a permanent setting?

Later,

[cockermatt]

Originally posted by LaW
And what are the chances of someone being able to hold down 16bps at a constant rate? Yeah pretty slim.....

I beg to differ. :)

[1stdeadeye]

AGD V2.37 allows 20 BPS. I'll post a picture of mine tonight showing this.

[Dayspring]

2.37? Is that the newest version for the X-Mags? I thought they were 2.1. Could be way wrong though.


Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
AGD V2.37 allows 20 BPS. I'll post a picture of mine tonight showing this.

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by cockermatt


I beg to differ. :)


So you say that you know someone who can fire 32 shots in 2 seconds? An average of 16bps for 2 seconds?

[cockermatt]

How about...34 in one second.

http://pages.xtn.net/~jholbrook/pb/34.jpg


Here is my personal best. 23, 1 second.


http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=634348



http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174111&perpage=21&pagenumber=1

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Dayspring
2.37? Is that the newest version for the X-Mags? I thought they were 2.1. Could be way wrong though.



My bad. It is version 2.21. I checked my X-Mag a few minutes ago. 20 BPS is the cap though!

[minimag187]

My ir3 has a 20bps cap also. So do the 03 LCD's.

[MicroB]

Who cares what board you have in your marker or what its capped at! Most of us cannot sustain high rates of fire beyond 16 bps on a semi only marker. No, I do not trust any gun displayed rate. The only true way to tell how fast you are actually firing is to use a dyno. Most of us don't have a dyno handy so rate of discusions are pointless.

B

[Kevmaster]

Im sorry, but I wont believe that the owner of that timmy is able to fire that gun 34 times in one second. I dont know how accurate that is, however, I dont believe its possible in semi.

[cockermatt]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
Im sorry, but I wont believe that the owner of that timmy is able to fire that gun 34 times in one second. I dont know how accurate that is, however, I dont believe its possible in semi.


That's fine you don't have to belive. However I know for a fact that I got to 23bps on mine. Thw board is a Equalizer, semo only, nothing else(shooting modes) programmed on the board.

[puckmaster]

Are you sure its not cycles per second. I dont think it can shoot paint that fast.

[Maglover2k]

yeah, well, the only reason i dont own a WAS board is because no hopper that i know of can keep up with 37bps fire. To the original subject, i dont care, we should be able to have the higher rates of fire on the markers considering all the other crap that they're doing to slow us down, like the new trigger bounce rule which is crap anyways.

[cockermatt]

Originally posted by puckmaster
Are you sure its not cycles per second. I dont think it can shoot paint that fast.

If there was a feeding system that could feed that fast/

[Carpecerevisi]

Whats the trigger bounce rule?

[cockermatt]

Originally posted by Carpecerevisi
Whats the trigger bounce rule?


Depends on if the ref can bounce it or not. If he can then it's illegal, if he can't then it's a go. Technically this is still one shot one pull....

[kutter]

cockermatt, I have a question, was there an airsource on the gun, cycling at the time, or was that you sitting on the couch playing with it?

[magman007]

Hmm thats wierd. My sfl with ace 01 (the on setting for the sfl) is capped at 24 bps Muahahaha


I think that it is wierd that it is faster than deadeye's x-mag, but now that i think he has the europe version, there fore his software is a little older, version 2.37 is the newest version out there

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by magman007
Hmm thats wierd. My sfl with ace 01 (the on setting for the sfl) is capped at 24 bps Muahahaha


I think that it is wierd that it is faster than deadeye's x-mag, but now that i think he has the europe version, there fore his software is a little older, version 2.37 is the newest version out there

I have 2.21. Time to send in for an upgrade!

[cockermatt]

Originally posted by kutter
cockermatt, I have a question, was there an airsource on the gun, cycling at the time, or was that you sitting on the couch playing with it?


Yes there was an air source.

[314159]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
hell...at hte IAO in '99 the PB industry agreed to ban ALL modes(Burst, Turbo, FA) forever...you see how far that got :rolleyes: I can name one company that went out and changed their markers to be semi only

are you thinking akalmp? ;)