what do boosters do?

[paintslinger]

exactly what the topic says. also how could i use one and what would i need to fill n2 at a paintball field? thanks

[BlackVCG]

From what I understand, you cascade a bunch of tanks, fill off of those up to the point that it stops filling and then the booster starts running and kicks the pressure back up to what it should be.

So say your cascaded tanks are filling 2500psi and you're giving out 3k fills, once the fill on the tank(s) hits 2.5k, the booster starts running and tops it off to 3k.

I haven't looked at the systems that close, but to my understanding that's the basic concept.

[Mossman]

I believe the way boosters work is a lot like how regs work. (although I don't really understand either, lol). Anyhow, i think it takes the pressure in your bulk tanks (something you'll need to fill at a field by the way), and it pushes that pressure against the big side of a piston. Now you have say 2500 PSI pushing against the larger surface area side of a piston, exerting a lot of force. Then, on the other side, the smaller side of the piston, it used that force to compress a smaller amount of air.

Man, i confused myself and didn't even say much. You take a lot of medium pressure air, and use that to compress small amounts of high pressure air. I would guess that the bigger difference in size between the 2 ends of the piston would give you a higher pressure in your tank at the end, but it would take longer. The closer together the sizes of the 2 sides are, the quicker it'll fill but the less the pressure boost.

If I am even partially right there, I am sure there is a lot more to it. Hopefully someone who knows what they're talking about will visit this thread soon.

[Kevmaster]

if you want the technical description, i can get you some pics from my classes at Tennessee.....however if you want the practical decision....

it allows you to take a bulk N2 tank filled at ~2000psi and use the booster pump and a 300psi compressor tank to get fills as high as 4500psi. My field runs a cascading system of 4 6000psi tanks and we fill off that, however a booster works aswell....

again, lmk if you want the technical description of what happens inside the tank

[paintslinger]

ok whats cascading and how do i hook a system up?

[Evil Bob]

You can run a booster off a single scuba cylinder.

Boosters are essentially a storage resevoir and a piston for compressing the stored air. First you fill the resevior tank with whatever PSI you have, then you can use the same air source into the piston(s) to compress the resevior to a higher PSI, which then fills the HPA bottle.

It's a pretty simple concept, it's only downfall is that it takes a substantial amount of time to fill a single HPA bottle to 4500 PSI (up to an hour per bottle depending upon the input PSI of your air source, the lower the PSI, the longer it will take).

If you're looking for speed, get yourself one with a dual piston for compression (it'll work twice as fast).

-Evil Bob

*EDIT* - Here's the link to WGP's Megabooster with a description on how it works: http://www.worr.com/borrb.html

[Kevmaster]

Cascading is having for example 4 bulk tanks hooked up in line. the first one has 2000psi, the next has 3000. the next 4000. the next 5000. you take the tank and fill it to 2000 off the first tank. then close that tank and turn on the second one, filling it to 3k. then all the way to 4 and 4.5k. This is the most economical way to fill tanks without a booster or a compressor. when the lowest one gets down to ~1000 you get it refilled and then you have a 2000(used to be the 3k), a 3000(used to be the 4), a 4000(used to be the 5) and a 6000(used to be the 2000). just keep changing around the order you fill them in by the amout of pressure inside them

[Evil Bob]

The only problem with cascading in that fashion is you need room to store the large 6k cylinders (which are not cheap to lease in the first place). That's fine for a store, but it's not something you can throw in the back of your car for a weekend of fun. But you can chuck a booster and a pair of scuba cylinders into your trunk with ease.

Each way has it's plus and minuses, cascading is the fastest way to fill up to 4.5/5k but is very bulky and not very mobile. A booster takes considerably longer time to fill but is very portable.

-Evil Bob

[SeeK]

Booster sounds expensive. How does it compare to a gas driven pump?

[Peach]

the WGP 4.5k dual piston one is about 3k... I read the article about a month ago so don't quote me on that...

[Shane-O-Mac]

you can buy a single piston Genesis booster from Air America for around $900. you can use 1 or 2 scuba tanks and fill with that, but scubas are kinda small, and dont last long. just get 4500 scuba tanks and fill directly off of them if you want really portable. you could even cascade 3-4 of them. oh yea if you are filling your own air, fill to 3000, and not 4500, the scubas will last longer.
Shane-O

[paintslinger]

well well i have a field in the works so im trying to get together how im gonna fill air. i think im gonna do the 4 444cf/4.5k scubas and cascade off of them. what type of hook ups will i need to run a cascade system like that? thanks

[xen_100]

Originally posted by Evil Bob

It's a pretty simple concept, it's only downfall is that it takes a substantial amount of time to fill a single HPA bottle to 4500 PSI (up to an hour per bottle depending upon the input PSI of your air source, the lower the PSI, the longer it will take).


I dont know what kind of slow a$$ boosters you have used. Our feild has a booster and it will fill a 68 CI 4500 from 0-4500psi in about 15-20 seconds. it doesn't take hours!

[Evil Bob]

Originally posted by xen_100


I dont know what kind of slow a$$ boosters you have used. Our feild has a booster and it will fill a 68 CI 4500 from 0-4500psi in about 15-20 seconds. it doesn't take hours!

Hate to be a master of the obvious here, but carefully re-read what your quoted... "up to an hour per bottle depending upon the input PSI of your air source, the lower the PSI, the longer it will take."

Up to an "hour" (singular), no mention of "hours" (plural) there at all.

Most boosters like to have a steady 6cfm (cubic feet per minute) input on the LP side to compress the HP side into the bottle, but they can and do work at lower input, it just takes longer. The worst case scenario I presented was for a guy running a single scuba cylinder, which is less then optimal but it still works fine.

A single piston booster will work just fine off of a single 3k scuba cylinder. You fill the HP side with 3k PSI of air, you regulate 130 PSI into the LP side, it takes less then a minute to fill your bottle from 0 to 4500. The problem that increases the time it takes to fill your bottle resides in the finite amout of air the single scuba cylinder contains. How many 3k fills can you get straight off of a 3k cylinder before you can no longer fill to 3k? Any guesses? No? Normally 1-3 depending upon the size of the cylinder in question, after that it drops down to 2500, then 2000, and so on as the cylinder empties. Each time you fill the HP side, you will have less air volume to compress, meaning it will take you longer to fill your bottle to a full 4.5k PSI. I have filled HPA bottles with a scuba tank that was almost empty (400 psi left, and it took 51 minutes). Granted I had filled over 40 bottles off of the single scuba cylinder, the first dozen or so went fast, after that it started to slow down incrementally.

You bring along two scuba cylinders and you can fill much faster and longer then using one. You bring along an air compressor and a few dozen cylinders, you're in great shape for filling all day long in under a minute, which is precisely why I stated "the lower the PSI, the longer it will take", and yes, it can take up to an hour in worst then ideal conditions.

-Evil Bob

[Kevmaster]

yeh, the field prolly runs a couple of large(much bigger than scuba) tanks and a booster. with a single scuba tank and booster, it will keep taking longer and longer

[Evil Bob]

Originally posted by paintslinger
well well i have a field in the works so im trying to get together how im gonna fill air. i think im gonna do the 4 444cf/4.5k scubas and cascade off of them. what type of hook ups will i need to run a cascade system like that? thanks

Depends if you want to go the cheap route or not. The cheap route is just buy 4 scuba fill adapters ($50-65 each) and just move the HPA bottle from one tank to the other (which is what most players with multiple scuba tanks do).

If you're going to go with 6k bulk tanks and have the tanks mounted to a wall, then you might want to consider hardline tubing them to a "console" or bulk filling station along the lines of what I have pictured below. You can see at any time the remaining PSI you have in each tank, toggle them on/off individually, and monitor the PSI in the bottle you're filling.

-Evil Bob

[paintslinger]

kool, where can i get the components to make this cascade system? also what type of compressor would i need to be able to fill the 444cf/4500psi tanks?

[einhander619]

a welding, medical, or scuba supply store will have most of the components.

[Kevmaster]

as for the compressor, youll need an industrial strength compressor. those can top $5k for a new one. If you are a field, Paintball Inc and National Paintball Supply can put you in the right direction getting one

for the components to make the cascading system, PI (and i asusme NPS could too) helped us set ours up. Your local welding store should have what you need too.

[paintslinger]

kool, we are a field and we're getting insurance from paintball inc. so since they'll help us that'll be great.

[Kevmaster]

Hey, if youre talking to Larry anytime soon, tell him that Kev (who visited with Tom and Jon and Shannon) says hey!

yeh, PI should be able to help you out with your fill station needs.

[paintslinger]

kool, larry is the guy im talking to so i'll defitnatly let him know u said hi. thanks for the info.

[SeeK]

I thought I read back when the boosters came out that they were designed so you could use a shop air compressor with 150psi output for the LP side.

Yes it would take longer to fill but if you are using it to top off the cascade system during games it might be an alternative to a straight HPA pump.

[Shane-O-Mac]

yes the worr mega booster can use a LARGE home compressor to power the boost side, but it still requires 2200 or higher fill tanks.
Shane-O