A BIG Trigger Question!!!!!!

[AGD]

AO,

I have a hypothetical question for you. If there were two guns, each with identical performance and price. One is an electronic trigger that can adjust down to your typical soft pull. The other is a mechanical trigger but almost as light as the E trigger, kind of like an Emag with two magnets.

Which would you buy and why?

Thanks,

AGD

[FooTemps]

MECH MECH MECH!!! AHHH!!!

My mag is in dire need of trigger lightening... and as you know, I'm one of the kids who isn't allowed to spend much over $100... per perchase that is.

hmm... seems like having it upgraded would cost more than that... but, an advange of a light mech is that you could have um... z-roller-grips!

[joker4hire]

Electronic.

Because it seems that you get more for your money if they are both the same price.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Tom,
I'd like the mechanical magnet trigger over the electrical one. Less things to go wrong due to the abuse of hard play.
Thanks,
Martin

[Kaiser Bob]

Depends on what price range this gun is supposed to be in, if its in the mid-lower range, i would go with a very nice feeling mech trigger, because cheap feeling electro triggers are a dime a dozen right now. High end range, I would say electro trigger because if you are paying the money, most people would appreciate being able to adjust it to as ridiculously light as they want.

[joeyjoe367]

I'd like to keep my guns as mechanical as possible please.

[nippinout]

WAHOO!!!

Give me a Super Trigger for my RT Pro and I will be one happy happy man.

I'd get one if it retrofitted onto an I-Frame easily. Possibly even a new frame. Super I-Frame.

I like tactile triggers. :) It's nice having a 'click' in my rhythm.

I think a trigger pull is all about length. Short length is more important than the amount of force to pull it, for me anyway.

[Phil]

I would buy a mechanical gun over an electro if it had the following attributes; would not chop, nice lite electro like trigger pull and was centerfeed.

[zads27]

I went from 'lower end' markers to the Angel to E-mag to Retromag. Just something I love about having a fully mechanical base marker, that I love. [and I'm even studying to be an electrical engineer, lol]

[FeuerFri]

if you were make a softer mecha trigger for mags, i would drop my impy and buy a mag with out hesitation. electric stuff is to much work, with batteries and worrying about droping them and getting them wet, thus frying them and losing out on the money you put into it, seems like to much hassle.

[Smoken]

Mechanical all the way. Three reasons:
1) Less likely to malfunction.
2) I can, in all likelyhood, fix it if there is a problem.
3) I would have to guess it would be considerably cheaper.

Hey, if anyone can do it right, I trust you can Tom. You haven't disappointed us in the past.

[DjGruv]

Electro all the way! One word E-MAG!:p

[Creative Mayhem]

I would like the light mech trigger for the higher ROF and durability. Not to mention the fact that when a mechanical trigger gets wet, you can play anyways, no stopping to dry off. Besides.. anything for my Purple People Eater is good.:D

C Mayhem

[spantol]

Hmmm. Probably not "Instead Of"--I loves my EMag--but certainly "In addition to." :)

[irbodden]

Mechanical...

It's easier, and most likely the trigger would still have some 'mech' left to it which I love. The RTPro trigger IMO is alot nicer then the E-Mag's (I have owned a couple of each ;))

[booyah]

I love my mechanical triggers... less to go wrong.

-Booyah

[pbguy888]

:D Mech. for me :D

[luke]

It's an interesting question. I wish you could give us a little more information though. I guess I would lean towards the mechanical trigger, but without knowing what your REALLY thinking, I can 't accurately vote in your poll. Can you give us some more info please? :D

[kenshinkandon]

I would say yes I would buy a light mechincal trigger over a electronic marker for two reasons.

One being I play rec ball and I love playing paintball but I don't want to invest thousand plus dollars into a marker for a reliable electronic marker.

Two sometimes I have long lapses where I won't be able to play paintball due to other oblogations and I'd worry that not using a electronic marker would damage the battery due to it not being used regularly.

PS: Thanks alot Tom I had planned on selling one of my mags and just keeping one for play but now that you have started with questions I'm going to have to keep both around so that I have one to play with and one to experiment with whatever it is you have come up with now.

[Jonesie]

I'd have to say that it would depend on cost. If the mechanical was less expensive than the electro, def the mech. Otherwise I'd go electronic.

Now, as an upgrade to to my ReTro, I'd choose that over Boo-Yeah or the like...

I'll try to be less vague in my next responses. :)

BTW - I LOVE it when Tom drops bombs on us like this... Can't wait to see what comes out of 'the Labratory of the Evil Dr. Kaye'! I bet it's good! :D

Later ~ Jonesie

[luke]

Jonsie

each with identical performance and price.
;)

[Patron God of Pirates]

With identical performance, I'd go mechanical every time. What exactly are we talking about though?

A mechanical gun with identical performance to an E-Mag in E-Mode, or a mechanical with identical performance to a Shocker. Because frankly, my RTP already out performs Shockers.

[MantisMag]

oooooo me wants! :D

[athomas]

If you could get the soft mechanical trigger with the short pull of the electronic trigger then we'd have something.

I like the electronic trigger we have now. I don't like having to rely on a switch to make an electronic actuation. They are known to have contact problems when used in a tough environment that a paintball gun would live in.

[beam]

I would say electronic.

We have entered the world of electronic triggers...even Kingman is making tons of them. We can't go back.

It's all mental.

[JAM]

No question- MECHANICAL.

- no batteries to charge, no worries about wet weather, usually can be fixed easier. Just more reliable over all.

The only problem is that most of the paintball world has been brainwashed into thinking that a gun has to be electro to compete.

lemmings.


-j

[thecavemankevin]

Originally posted by JAM
No question- MECHANICAL.
The only problem is that most of the paintball world has been brainwashed into thinking that a gun has to be electro to compete.

lemmings.



like me!!:D

I still like a nice mech trigger (hinged cockers) but the only reason i would have a mech on my mag (have a hyper now) is for a z grip with RT bounce.

But the electro is what the majority of the market wants and will pay for. Really the only reason cockers still do so well is because they do have a light pull (vs most other mechs) and because they have been around soooo long. If they just hit the market today, there would be very little demand for them. Perhaps there is a way to produce both.....???

[Darkling]

Mechanical all the way! Less to go wrong, more durable, no worry about batteries. The only thing that worries me here is Tom saying that it will be the same price as an electro. If it's like Impy price, that would be great, but like E-Mag or Angel expensive, I dunno about that. Oh well, still sounds good, Tom!

[RAM3139]

definetly mechanical. A well built mechanical trigger just feels better IMO. A mech trigger gives a more tactile feedback so its easier to get in rythem with it.

[FutureMagOwner]

if i didnt already own an emag i would get the light mech trigger if its cheaper because im cheap and i like to stick with simple(even though the e is simple)

[Fatjon]

definatly mechanical!!!!!!! I would love a mechanical(with out retro because i do not like the feel of it) that could keep up with the electros.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

id buy a mech, a dude at my feild got his electro fried by it getting hit:)

[hardr0ck68]

i picked i would bedate, because i (like many mag owners) have a solid all mechanical back up mag, now i dont often spend lots of money on this marker but i do like to keep it current and competative. If you could offer me this super soft trigger for 150 or so 200 would be pushing it, then yeah i would go for it. Price is the deciding factor with me

[battlegroup]

I would have to debate this for a while.

The mechanical trigger has it advantages in that it would be simpler (i'm guessing), would remove the weight of the battery and electronics, and be cheaper.

However, I like having the very lite elctronic trigger, absolutley no chance of short stroking, the electronic eye (I know lvl 10 does this also) to prevent chops, and my E-mag battery as a foregrip and running both my warp and loader.

On any other E-gun I would lean toward the mechanical side to elimate parts I can't fix and make it more reliable, But with the e-mag I like the fact I can switch to manual and barring a problem with the battery itself, finish a game if the electronics crap out. And if it is the battery I can just throw some batteries into the loader and warp for the next game.

How about both triggers on an E-mag? The very adjustable e trigger and a very lite mech one as well?

[virus]

Mech for me.... just more relible overall....
that and every electro i have fired always seemed
to miss a pull here and there.... ie the 3 different Emags
i have fired all set at different bps (one which was at max)
would miss a pull alot for me, same for the 1 angel, 3imps, 1 shocker, 1 matrix...... they all did the same... granted i loved the trigger pull the missed shots on pulls the would have happened but were before the next interval the eltronics would look for got old real fast.....

where sneve i got my retro valve i'm not running into that problem anymore....

[ShooterJM]

Mech all the way!

Between the warp, revy, and now an impy I'm already keeping duracell in business! And quite frankly, I still like my mags trigger better then the mouse click. If it could be short and lighter it'd be great.

Although, if it made easier to short stroke that probably wouldn't be a good thing for the agd rep.

[ben_JD]

If the mechanically triggered marker is built and on the shelves prior to the X-Mag I ordered and paid a deposit for about 14 months ago, then I will get the mechanically triggered marker.

[Sinnet]

mechanical!

I can't wait to see where this hypothetical is going...

[ogre55]

I agree with most everyone else. If I could get a mechanical marker with comporable performance to an electro, but without the added headaches of electronics going all stupid, then I would go with the mechanical marker.

So now we all have to sit and wonder what Mr. Kaye has in mind.

Ogre

[Punkerx2]

i would buy a mechanical definately over an electro, cuz if something goes wrong it would be easy to fix, and i dont like the feel of electronic pulls, it makes me feel like im not in charge, im just relying on the solenoids and wires to do their job, but with mechanical you can feel the sear push on the onoff pin and feel the bolt push forward and feel the sear catch, it just makes it feel like im in charge... mechanical anyday

[cledford]

I say electro. It is insane how light/short you can go with the pull - no mechanical trigger will even beat it. Also, due to the nature of "E" triggers, it is impossible to short-stroke them.

The only benifit I see with a lighter mechanical pull would be that you couls have a gun that *might* get close to the electros BPS, but save A LOT of weight over say the Emag.

You could call it the Retro mag ;)

-Calvin

[nuclear zombie]

considering I just ordered a $1500 x-mag , I would say electronic , but that's only for the emag and that because of the redundancy feature to switch to manual .
It's still a mechanical trigger and yes you could get close to an electronic trigger pull but still it's just "close".
I also thought the emags were shown to be very reliable , and handled the moisture pretty well .

Later

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

Definitely mechanical. I am always concerned about how many electros have problems, batteries die (I know, check before games, but who hasn't had a revvie die on them at least once cause you didn't check the battery), how easily they can be damaged, fried boards, contact problems from dirt or paint, etc. Not every can have three guns and spare boards lying around. My Mag is extremely reliable and easy to troubleshoot problems and it's because of its reliability I didn't sell it to get an Impulse. Still considering an LED Matrix but the electric issue is why I'm holding off. The biggest problem I have with it is the weight of the trigger pull and I guess Mr. Kaye has something in mind. Electric is good but kind of a fad. Upper end electros like the XMag put my Mag to shame but I always laugh when I see a kid with a $200 electric spyder and he thinks his gun is better than any analog gun. All he has over me is that he can acheive high rates of chopping.

I would laugh my head off if it resembles the idea I came up with a couple months ago and posted on the tech board. With the retro and xvalves the push back is so strong and recharge rate so great that theoretically you could have a spring pushing against the front of the trigger near the top (or even bottom) so that it's like you always have finger pressure against it. 1 pound of pressure would cut greatly into the pull required and not stop the trigger from recocking, and if you can tune it to the point it lightens the pull as much as it can without interfering in the stroke it could rip. And the shortened pull that a trigger stop or frame like the Intelliframe gives would make the trigger pull very closely resemble that of an electric. I hope Mr. Kaye doesn't make thousands off this, if so I should have sold the design to Shocktech or something :D The thread was entitled Trigger or Spring Trigger. I'll look for it later.

Edit: Found the thread I was talking about....
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61424&highlight=trigger

[redlaser666]

I always prefer a mechanical trigger. No batteries to go dead, rain has no efect, can throw it against a wall and it still works. Mechanical all the way.

[Pand0ra]

Electro. Except if you can make a trigger extremely short, and quite soft.

@++

[hitech]

I don't know what an emag with two magnets feels like, but if you can make a mechanical trigger with a pull close to the distance and resistance of a hyperframe, I know of a few people who would buy them in a hot second. :D

[behemoth]

make a trigger for a mechanical gun, so the kids with the parents who wont let them spend their own money...cough...cough...me...can have a reliable gun...with a cheap price and a short crisp trigger pull

[EsPo]

Originally posted by AGD
AO,

I have a hypothetical question for you.

i hope its not really hypothetical.... mechanical here, as long as its lighter than the current trigger.

[gibby]

I would definitely buy into the mechanical trigger...especially if it meant gaining electro performance. Like everyone said, you don't have to worry about expensive electronic failures. It can be fixed on the field if you have spare parts, and the know-how. Of course, that could be said about electros too...but you know what I mean. :)

As for price...I don't mind paying for quality stuff.

[hitech]

Originally posted by cledford
Also, due to the nature of "E" triggers, it is impossible to short-stroke them.


With a level 10 'mag short stroking is not a problem anymore. A short light trigger pull combined with level 10 would be great, IMO. ;)

[JadedT]

Definitely mechanical. No batteries to charge, no worries about paint getting past the grips, no solenoids to tweek, no sears to replace (too often), etc...

Gotta say I love my iframe. What is next other than the y?

[Scooter/Cootie]

Mech for me, please. :D


Any weight savings and size reduction would be very welcome!

[Skoad]

if you could get the light trigger pull like a elec gun on a mech gun i would probably go for that.

[TheJester]

i vote mechanical all the way, i always liked mechanical more than elctro (even though yes, i want an emag like every 1 on AO does) but i've always liked the simplicty and easy of fixing of mechanical things over electrical.

if i were to vote in this poll, what 1 do i click for mechanical? the poll is a yes/no vote, the ? is mechanical/electro

so what do you have goin on Tom? all new gun design? new trigger frame? just a new trigger/sear design?

[j.t.]

Lets see... mechanical is more reliable, doesn’t require batteries, and should be lighter. Where as electro can be adjusted as light and short as you desire.

Tough choice... then it brings up another question. If we can make the mechanical pull significantly lighter and shorter, then you could also say that it would require much less power to operate on electronics. The emag's battery size could be reduced and you could get alot more shots per charge. Would this affect your choice?

I would still choose mechanical. Can't wait to hear what Tom's opinion on this is.
:confused: :D

[RetroEclipseMan]

I saw mechanical all the way. All the reasons I would want one have all ready been posted so there's no need to explain.

[Me]

eccono emag would be nice
a mag with a factory ADG grip, sob, adj trigg magnets, rt maybie? ect ect

[Smitty2k1]

Mech.

Im anti electro (well unless its a fully electro gun, spyders with e-grips make me mad)

Plus, AGD is a 'simple but effective' type of company if you ask me.

Mech mech mech!

A Y-Grip, that was just like the I-Frame, only with a lighter pull = greatest invention ever.

[SI|ENT|3O|3]

MECHANICAL!!! most definatly...ive tried to get two electonic guns used and both of them came with a fried board. i also like the ability of fixing them easyer...so mech all the way!
-sebastian

[jctam]

Mech!

[Python14]

I'll be different than most folks and say electro. Reliablity isn't that much of an issue for me because 90% of electros out are just as reliable as the mechanical markers. I also like a complex design so I feel like I have accomplished something when I figure out how it works.

So electro for python.

[Da1spaz247]

There is one thing that I absolutly HATE about electro triggers-BATTERIES BATTERIES BATTERIES BATTERIES BATTERIES BATTERIES BATTERIES. I have had too many bad experiences with batteries. I now shoot a ReTro minimag and the thing I love most is that I can really dish out MORE than plenty paint, and I don't have to deal with fun batteries. It's bad enough having to deal with my HALO and warp. If I ever did upgrade to a better gun, it would definately be an EMAG, and NOTHING ELSE. I just LOVE how you can use electro, and if the battery dies, I could just flip a switch and it'll be just like old times with my ReTro minimag!

Plus I like to feel like I am shooting a solid piece of equipment, and not activating something else that does the shooting for me (not as fun).

[FooTemps]

Ok, chew on this:

Mech arguement:
It's a good idea to go with this if you can bring down the price quickly. When you go mech, you don't have problems like "the solenoid alignment wont work with a z-grip". You also don't have to deal with batteries(no big, but it's good to spend less on batteries). There is also the fact that a mechanical trigger using a roller would a good thing. Also, when you have a light mechanical trigger, you have a better backup mode for an emag. hmmm? Yes! better Manual mode for E-MAG! That means a trigger that feels almost the same no matter what.

Electro arguement:
Ever see the video of Clare's trigger being blown on? That's all I need to say... very insane stuff there.

[mag-hatter]

mech! it'd be less expensive, and i dont like electros that much (in other words, im too poor to afford paint)

[WARPED1]

I am an electro addict.Reason I sold my mag was to go electro(pre Emag days,or just as it came out),and I've never looked back.I have a cocker,but I refuse to use it.
I admit though,I want an RT backup,my gun is an Angel LCD.I prefer electros over mech,it's a personal thing,I'm not saying one is better than the other.

[personman]

Originally posted by Smoken
Mechanical all the way. Three reasons:
1) Less likely to malfunction.
2) I can, in all likelyhood, fix it if there is a problem.
3) I would have to guess it would be considerably cheaper.

^ Exactally my feelings.
Why would you buy an electronic gun when you can buy a mechanical gun thats just as good in every way? Its perverted. More things to go wrong.

[felony]

i was just about to buy a cocker when i read this post.

not actually in the process of buying, but seriously thinking about it. not because i dont like mags, just because i want something fun and different.

could this new trigger be it? may this sway my decision?

i say mech or electro. i can rip on electro, but a nice mech trigger would be great too.

im not worried about reliability as it is AGD!!!

dan

[Tunaman]

This is a good thing....we have needed this for years...You go girl!:D ;)

[felony]

i agree with Tuna.. this sounds big.

Tom, any other news on this topic?

[FooTemps]

yes! news please! will this be a new gun, valve, or just part level? Is it is just a new valve/ level... how much will it cost?

[temps]

I'm a mechanical man myself, but i can't afford to go electro so i'm limmited. I voted to debate it for a while... cause this is a very ify question that, as I own a mini, i would love to have a soft magnetic trigger.. but if i had the money would i buy that over an electro... I don't know.

[2000Sabre]

If the only electronic component was the trigger and both are easily set up and adjustable I'd say mechanical. Long term there are no batteries involved and I don't have to worry about something dying n the middle of a game. However, mechanical parts do wear and my adjustments may have to be tinkered with many times over the life of the product. If there was other functionality involved and depending on what it was I'd may say electronic.

[Richter]

if you can make a magnet push my trigger rod for me and it is as fast as an electro i say i would go mechanical. But on the same note what i would do rather than what i say i would do are two different things; unfortunately….

Example is that of the swing trigger and one of those new 4 ways for cockers. Now mind you I like this set up but presently I am thinking about buying one of those eclipse e-blades instead; and the mechanical way is cheaper.

[magzown3]

MECHANICAL BECAUSE MECHANICAL IS THE SHIATTT, NO WORRIES, NO PROBLEMS

[FordPrefect]

I'd say go with mechanical, just because there'd be less to go wrong. But, if you make it electronic, people would like it because they can mess with stuff.

[mistwolf]

I would, in the end, likely go with mechanical. There is just too much to go wrong in an electro that I won't be able to fix, and you always have to worry about the wet and dropping it. We play a rough sport, and it suprises me that more electros don't snuff it just because of the nature of the beast.

Jamie

[Darkstorm]

I voted Mechanical and I just spent as much on a brand new 68 and upgrades (even sent in a new valve for an xvalve) that most people would have bought an EMag HOWEVER.....

I will NEVER buy a gun that requires a battery charger, but I own a Black Dragon that uses a 9v (I can go through at least 3 cases on a battery) and love it except for the chopping.

A mechanical gun, that is SIMPLE, with that light of a trigger (and an XValve) would be great.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I can't really choose either, because I've got a feeling Tom's either A. got an idea or B. Already has a prototype for something he's not giving us info about yet. I've been on here long enough to remember when Tom asked people if 10bps was too slow for a mag if it never chopped paint..what became of that question? uuh...Level 10..and does it top out at 10bps? nope...and it virtually eliminates chops...I think that's a homerun in my book.

[Jerhew]

ok Tom
i think its pretty clear
there are some diehard mechanical fans out there
i think if you had something to lighten the mags trigger pull
it'd go over almost as big as the level 10 did
heck
you might even win over a couple more cocker fans...
with that and the lx...who would bother with cockers?
so can ya fill us in now?

man if you pull this one off...it'll be an almost entirely new mag...
x-valve, y-frame, aluminum bodies...and now lighter triggers...
wow

[Miscue]

If you can make a mechanical with a trigger that rivals an electro, I'll put my EMag on the wall as a show piece and point out to people how I used to use batteries in the old days.

[einhander619]

Well for marketability I'd say electro, but my RT was every bit as fast as my bushy. I need more info before I say anything with weight.

[Panzerr]

I would definetlily purchase a very light mechanical trigger over an electronic trigger. Less to go wrong -no batteries required. If AGD were to come out with a fully mechanical version of the x-mag, I would set aside my ir3.

[AGD]

Ok I get the message loud and clear. Standby for second poll.

THANKS!!!!!!

AGD

[tunaman jr]

i never wanted to give up my retro trigger pull but christmas came along and dropped off an e mag. so when i told pops that i dident want to use it till i had problems with the retro mag he almost cried. i will always have a mechanical pull in my heart...i miss you tookie. "sniffle"

[Sinistarr]

You can't beat the feal of the trigger when it fires. I prefer mechanical to electro for the feel of the release, or fire point. The lighter you can make it the faster you can shoot.

Electros are great for speed and getting it to bouce. I guess I just prefer mechanical.


G

[Dern]

Mechanical- because simplicity is best in my opinion. It is easier to replace, make, and fix too.

[Sputnik]

Mechanical for me. I like the reliability and fixability.

Dang, and I was just about to get an Intelliframe, now I have to wait more!!!

[magnj]

Ahhhh, I dont know, ima say both
ON one hand , a mechanical triger will not break and easy to maintain, And with a soft pull would be great

BUt on the other hand, electro trigers are awsome and I doubt and mech. trigger can come close to the pull of an electro. but if the new triger/frame could be rigged for a little blinking led(we all know thats why we love electros....) then I may buy it

Hope this helps

[ß.C.]

If AGD is gonna make a mech trigger with magnets like the medusa then I'm SOOO in if they come in chrome! I wanted to spend $150 on the medusa, think how much I'd spend on an AGD one!

[Trigger_Happy]

Mechanical all the way! Electro grips can easily fail! Also, I have an odd situation:

My closest nitro fill is 45min from me. An hour and a half round trip is too much. Many have said, 'get a scuba'. Others tell me that my field is dumb for not having a compressor. I don't want your suggestions, simply understand that I choose to play on CO2 because all the other alternatives are unreasonable.

Because I can't/refuse to get HPA, I run a classic mag on CO2. I love my mag! I gave up the mag for cockers, impys, and quite a few other things, but I came crawling back :) My one complaint against the mag is the trigger pull! I have a nice STO coker that I like to play with in spare time, and it's hinge trigger is as short or shorter than my intelli. The BIG difference is that the hinge is REALLY light and smooth! The mag has that "on/off pull". If you could make me a lighter trigger that would help the speed of my classic mag, I'd pay the moon for it!!!

It may be worth it to you to make both though, Tom! Lots of rec players use classic mags. However, I find that those rec players often buy their mags used! You, Tom, are not making profit on a large number of mag sales, because it seems that mags are being "circulated" as opposed to bought. On the other hand, you could make a fortune by marketing a great mech trigger to rec-ballers who've purchased used mags. The mag owners I know are willing to spend big bucks on things that upgrade performence; even the mag owners that are too cheap to buy a case of paint for more than $45!!

I'm sorry for the long post, and I'm sure you guys know better than I do what will sell, and what won't, to various markets. I just want to let you know that there would be money in a mech trigger. Thanks!

*EDIT* Let me clarify by giving you a number. If you offered a gun that had a very light trigger, yet ran on CO2, I'd pay up to $600 for it. If you made some kind of aftermarket part (Valve, on/off assy, trigger frame, or whatnot!) that allows for a light trigger, yet runs on CO2, I'd probably pay up to $200 for it. Well.....that $200 is negotiable....I'm desperate! Cheap is very, very good, but I think the classic mag trigger pull feels awkward and need a solution!

[WaRBladE]

I would say the mechanical because if the batteries died you could always switch to have the gun run without any electrical parts. If the batteries died in the electrical trigger system then say goodbye rest of the day or you would need to buy some 9v batteries. (some electric triggers run off 9v batteries while others run off special rechargeable ones)


EDIT - This was refering to how the E-mag trigger is setup now...if the batteries die you can run it as a mechanical setup by flipping a switch.

[tazman]

It would depend on the price of it. An electro frame for the mag is about $450 cdn(Almost too rich for my blood with a morgage two kids and a wife who wants a mag aswell) If it is cheap enough I would get one if it is too much then I would have to pass. The electro frames have a good rate of fire and are realy smooth if you can get a mech frame to do that and it has a good feel and is quick and smooth then you will have a big hit.

[myspdkls]

You have read my mind Tom! Giving the ability to fly on a trigger without the probability of frying a board or running out of batteries is the perfect combination. I'm about to upgrade from a pre-star valve to an X-valve and an I-frame and I would love to see that with a lighter (like its not already light) pull could do for the ROF. Please-o-please at least put this idea out in a proto for some testing(I'd be happy to do this for you)so that we can see how it works.:D

[karatekid8989]

i like the mechanical triggers they stand up to abusive play and seem more reliable

[Jerhew]

um...
hey
any word on this...
it's been awhile and tom hasn't mentioned a peep
i imagine he's really busy trying to get those xmags out
it'd be nice to hear about some progress on this though
(sits back down and waits patiently)

[Cryer]

Hey, Tom...
When you guys want to test it out...Throw one my way! I'll be happy to play with it!

[Mook564]

Originally posted by JAM
No question- MECHANICAL.

- no batteries to charge, no worries about wet weather, usually can be fixed easier. Just more reliable over all.

The only problem is that most of the paintball world has been brainwashed into thinking that a gun has to be electro to compete.

lemmings.


-j

Plus you dont have to worry about droping your electronic gun and messing up the board on it. Boards for an electro are not cheep Also the price of batteries will add up over time ( I am cheep like that ).:D

[Quiet]

I sold my electro a while ago and just play with a retro. My best friends angel sits in a box while he's out playing with his cocker. It's just more satisfying to play mech, at least for me.

Mech all the way.

[Dragoon]

Hhhmmmm.....

I hear the cries for Mechanical, and I agree with the arguments. But my marketing part of me thinks it would only be a product that mag fanatics like and use. The larger market out there is rushing towards electro. Even if a mechanical frame is better, it would be hard to overcome the 'electro is faster/better' mentality that is so strong at the moment.

If possible, I'd like to see both frames made. But that may be like having your cake and eating it too :)

Douglas

[mykroft]

Mechanical, if for a mag.

I'm no fan of the E-Mag trigger, but am a huge fan of Hinge frames for Cockers (Except WGP or Shocktech Hinges, which suck).

[Mickster]

i love mechanical markers, so i would have to say no to the electro if you could get a lighter trigger pull :D

[Dubstar112]

Too light and theres no return pressure, unless of course this counts the RT valve in.. then its a different story. Too light and every short strokes etc...

[kenny45749]

As of current technology on the market I would say that electronic triggers are superior. I am not talking about bps either. Sure electronic triggers usually allow an increase in rate of fire, but they offer some other benifits as well, despite there general drawbacks.
The common arguement is that electronics can fail, and this is true. AGD countered this arguement though by ingeniously including the ability to switch back to manual mode in the Emag.
Electric components in the gun allow you to control previously uncontrolable parameters of the gun. Things like cap rate, dwell, etc. The gun can still fire properly, and posibly even better with the help of electrical timing and actuation. With an electric frame firing the gun, it usually mimicks the original firing sequence(but alot faster) and does the brunt of the work for you. What is superior about this is that it doesnt cheat the gun in order to speed up.
The example that always comes to my mind is the introduction of slotless plates in cockers in order to speed them up. Everyone knows that these were faster, but they also wore out the components of the gun faster.
In order for a gun to be reliable it usually has a solid contact somewhere in its design between two key points(such as the sear and the lug in a cocker). In order to soften the triggers and speed up the guns, people shorten and reduce this contact point, seriously jeopardizing the long term reliability of the gun.
So seeing this I fear the introduction of new mechanical triggers that try to be as soft as an electric one. It just seems to me something must be sacrificed within the gun in order to make it equaly soft and quick.
AGD is known for quality though, so I am sure that yall have found a way around this serious drawback, and the mag may be capable of having a slight redesign to soften/speed it up.
As for now I am happy with my Emag. It is user adjustable, reliable, and built to add a soft and quick pull to the RT ,without giving up key points in its solid design.

[CrazyLad]

mechanical....electronic you have to change batteries and theres just so many things that could go wrong...Also if they get wet your in trouble

[ReTro Boy]

Mechanical.

[xadamx]

didnt tom say that he was suspending research on this?

[DWill]

Mech...less to go wrong and more simple

[JT2002]

either or, but if ist a mech trigger please dont make it like the cocker hinge frames, i say that only because when i shot a hinge frame cocker, yeah teh pull was short, but it was stiff as he!! so if u go mech just make sure its not stiff at all, very smooth acting and such

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

mech all the way because there is less to go wrong and no batteries

[xadamx]

Originally posted by JT2002
either or, but if ist a mech trigger please dont make it like the cocker hinge frames, i say that only because when i shot a hinge frame cocker, yeah teh pull was short, but it was stiff as he!! so if u go mech just make sure its not stiff at all, very smooth acting and such
if your mag doesnt have a stiff pull, id like to know how you pulled that off. mine, and all other mechanical mag triggers are pretty damned stiff

[JT2002]

Originally posted by xadamx

if your mag doesnt have a stiff pull, id like to know how you pulled that off. mine, and all other mechanical mag triggers are pretty damned stiff
i never said that the mag i had didnt have a stiff pull, im just saying that if he makes an upgrade tigger mech, but short, to make sure that it is also soft, because i have to say i absolutely hated the stiffness of the hinge frame and it totally turned my off bout cockers. even tho im a timmy and mag guy

[adam shannon]

mechanical. i used to shoot an impulse. i dumped it after 1 year and 3 main boards, 2 eyes, 2 trigger switches, and 2 solenoids. i have more fun playing with my micromag than i ever did with the impulse. i will never own another marker that at least doesnt have a mechanical backup system. im sooo turned off by electro only markers now.

[reefer madness]

mechanical because with trigger bounce on my rt and the pull of an electric it will outshoot anything im pretty sure.

[ezrunner]

Well, if you can get a few of these Hypothetical triggers into the hands of some kid shooting a n Intimidator by drumming his two fingers on it, and he still shoots as fast, then you have a winner.

A mechanical trigger that you could walk would be an innovation that could herald a return to the tournament scene the mech marker.

I'd love to shoot one to see how it performs. This would be the answer to the best second gun to have, and maybe put a mag back into my primary shooting spot.

I love mags, but for the speed and weight I take my bushmaster or race cocker out there. Problem being they are much more likely to fail on the field than a mag.

(PS -> I know the xmag fixed both these problems. Next $1400.00 I have to spend I'll prolly get one, ETA 2072)

-rob

[xadamx]

ill test one of those babies when you start making prototypes and such

[jdev]

i have yet to be "tainted" by the electro marker world.

yes, ive been to a proshop and held an electic and played around with it, but ive never played a round with one.

so, imma stick with mechanic. more simple, for me anyways.

[reefer madness]

i can out shoot lower end electros like my friends e99 and jt accelerator with my rt, i can almost keep up with some of the higer end ones but with smaller pull i would almost certanly

[Frank (the spank)]

http://home.pacbell.net/zoraks/NO.JPG

Can you also put a big block that comes back at my head everytime I shoot it?

hehehe.. no.. I want MORE computers. I work at Apple computer and I want a friggen MP3 player built into it along with a heads up display, a GPS link to the rest of my teams E-Mags and wireless 802.11 networking access built into it..

Computers are very reliable now, as long as you know how to make them be. The E-mag doesn't have much eletronics in it, but I see the valve very hi tech. I mean.. Angels still use a hammer!!

[reefer madness]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80036&highlight=z+valve

looks like its gonna be a while. amybe we should start a petition

[nospmas311]

I would hit the mech becuase for some reason I like the feel of the gun. I like the little resistance then trigger pull gives you before you fire beucase I just do. On any electronic gun, you can have the triger be tapped and it will fire which for some reason I don't like. Also, I like not having to spend 500 dollars on a new gun when instead I can spend around 100 and hqave a hell'lightened trigglr pull for the gun I already like... Sorry if there are mispellings... I'm a tad bit splificated at the monent.

[slushee]

Originally posted by AGD
AO,

I have a hypothetical question for you. If there were two guns, each with identical performance and price. One is an electronic trigger that can adjust down to your typical soft pull. The other is a mechanical trigger but almost as light as the E trigger, kind of like an Emag with two magnets.

Which would you buy and why?

Thanks,

AGD



Okay, this is far down the list, but here's my 2 cents Tom.

The question may not be 'which marker would you outright buy' but what would you upgrade to.

You see, I (as well as many many many other people) have a mechanical marker because we cannot afford to outright buy a brand new marker. We buy a stock marker and upgrad as funds will allow. Now, I have a mech. trigger that is very short and chrisp, but if there was a way to make it shorter and lighter, I would be all over it.

Right now, the only way to do that is to buy a 300$ electro grip frame from centerflag. This is very very expensive, thus I will have to save for months. If you were to come out with an upgrade that reduces the pull by 2/3's (hypothetical, of coarse ;) ), then I would DEFINATLY buy this. I would probably at that point not buy the electro frame due to such a short pull for about 1/3 of the price of the electro grip.

Now, to go out and buy a brand new marker, the answer will almostly certainly be 'electro' due to the current fad and to have the shortest possible trigger pull imaginable.

Now, if the question is "should I make the newest markers with electro grips or mech.", you should make them electro for those who can afford to buy those new markers. As an upgrade, the mech upgrade reducing the pull will be purchased by almost every single person who currently owns a marker with a mech trigger.

Hopefully that helps from a poor consumers point of view. Most of us don't have the 1500$ to just 'buy a new marker'.

Also, don't forget, as short a pull you could get with the cocker mech trigger, most players seemed to prefered to have an electro frame of some sort.

[TheAmazingJelloMag]

Mech for sure. I play alot of recball and play on in rain. Have you ever seen an electro get wet? Not pretty.