Why.......? (Why can't AGD make stuff faster)

[la690]

first, i am a big fan of AGD. the products, costumer assistance and customer interactiveness is great. i just have one question. why does it take AGD so long to release a product? i know the x-mag is technically realeased but well...you know....another item, tear drop sluggos... i want to know why AGD doesnt find a way to get their products out faster? i know it is a small company but then why not hire more people? idk maybe im way off base but..idk....:confused:

[PzYcO]

More staff = more money spent. They have enough staff to preform efficently and to spend enough expensies...

[la690]

i though about this though but if you think about it. more staff=more output=more $$ earned. again, tell me if im totally wrong

[shartley]

Originally posted by la690
first, i am a big fan of AGD. the products, costumer assistance and customer interactiveness is great. i just have one question. why does it take AGD so long to release a product? i know the x-mag is technically realeased but well...you know....another item, tear drop sluggos... i want to know why AGD doesnt find a way to get their products out faster? i know it is a small company but then why not hire more people? idk maybe im way off base but..idk....:confused:
How can you hire more people if you don’t have the funds to support their pay? They actually just recently had to let some of their staff go.

Also, do you realize that virtually none of their products are MADE by them? (As in the actual parts.) They are designed by them, made by companies who specialize in the particular part, and then assembled by them.

And if you think about it, for a company their size, they have actually put out a good number of products in a relatively short amount of time…. If they even come out with only ONE new product a year, it is great… and they exceed that.

They are caught in a catch 22 on actual product manufacture and availability. So, all and all, they don’t do too bad. Sure, if they had more staff and a bigger budget they could get things out faster and make more of them…. but they don’t . I am sure that Tom would however not turn down a generous donation of a few million dollars to help them out. ;)

But be happy… they are now farming out things (or should I say letting other companies make them) to other companies (such as new bodies and stuff) which should help make more products available to the public… which is a good thing. :D

[Blennidae]

There also may be a question of perception. Tom has shown us whats "in the works" before they are ready to ship. We wait patiently (and not so patiently) for the products. This gives the impression its taking a long time. He could keep us completely in the dark until he had a boatload to ship, but then we wouldn't have much say in the final product.

[cphilip]

I wanna know why posters cannot chose appropriate titles so we can tell what the subject is... :rolleyes:

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip
I wanna know why posters cannot chose appropriate titles so we can tell what the subject is... :rolleyes:
Could it be similar to AGD’s problem… limited resources? ;)

[cphilip]

Could be...could be..... ;)

[Fred]

Quality? or Quantity?

X-Mag? or Spyder?

Hmm.. that's a toughy...:rolleyes:

Having to wait makes you appreciate it that much more!:D

[la690]

sorry

[Mook564]

Originally posted by Fred
Quality? or Quantity?

X-Mag? or Spyder?

Hmm.. that's a toughy...:rolleyes:

Having to wait makes you appreciate it that much more!:D

I am more then willing to wait for a quality product then a thrown together pile of $#!^@^&*

[la690]

me too. im not trying to be a jerk or anything i just wanted to know why it doesnt happen. thanks for the info.

[Kevmaster]

more preproduction(as in before the release of it) of a product so they can sell tons when they release it results in more risk. more risk means more chance to lose money. I can respect AGD wanting to play conservatively

[shartley]

Originally posted by Mook564
I am more then willing to wait for a quality product then a thrown together pile of $#!^@^&*
Are you saying that Spyders are thrown together crap? I beg to differ. They are a low cost marker. And for the price you get a decent product. There are many levels and price ranges for almost every product, and that included paintball markers. And Spyders are FANTASTIC markers for their price.

They fit a need, and do a darn good job of it.

[AGD]

Lets talk about the SLUGOS specifically. YOU made it a BIG point that the body had to cover the valve. YEP got to have that! Wasn't good enough the way it was so we listened. We redesigned it, requoted it, it was MUCH more expensive, we had to meet with the machine shop on how to reduce the cost, they had to order new tooling (took weeks), then they had to reprogram it for the new tooling.

If you wonder why stuff takes so long ask yourself why you have to have it your way.

AGD

[Remington]

Originally posted by AGD
Lets talk about the SLUGOS specifically. YOU made it a BIG point that the body had to cover the valve. YEP got to have that! Wasn't good enough the way it was so we listened. We redesigned it, requoted it, it was MUCH more expensive, we had to meet with the machine shop on how to reduce the cost, they had to order new tooling (took weeks), then they had to reprogram it for the new tooling.

If you wonder why stuff takes so long ask yourself why you have to have it your way.

AGD

It's okay Tom, we appreciate what you and the AGD staff do for us, even though some of us might seem unappreciative. :rolleyes: Take your time Tom, all we ask is that the product is well made!

[Bubonic Plauge]

Why can you get these in the UK though and not here? I dont know anything about international buisness law and such...but just ship em over from England, they dont need them! =)

/shrug

[Remington]

AGD and AGDE are to separately owned and operated companies, if I'm not mistaken. Why would AGDE want to send some of its precious X-mags over here, when they can sell them in Europe and not have to pay for shipping charges.

[AGD]

Internet Myth #1 Xmags are available in Europe.

AGD

[JT2002]

Internet Myth #2 Cockers shoot farther than mags and everything else.:rolleyes:

JT

[Smoke]

Hey, gve Tom a break! He works really hard to come up with ideas that we all like, and he probably spends many late nights testing everything so that we'll have anything to complain about later. Tom, you do a great job, we all support you, and you give us more and more reasons why AGD rocks soooooo much harder than any other company. Keep up the good work, and don't feel like you gotta rush!!!!

[Matt Crawford]

Originally posted by RogueFactor
I for one would have preferred the non-covered valve ULE body.

I hope this will still be an option.

I agree

[jayloo]

la690 asked a valid question as I have wondered the same thing. I personally would like to know more about AGD the company...past and fututre. I wish AGD could mass produce the xmags and fill up the market....along with sluggos, ule grips, x-valves and no-rise bodies. I am in line for all of the above.

One of the points of these boards is to educate. I have a lot of respect for Tom for listening to his customers and taking the time to give us answers. Thanks AGD.

[GT]

This is kinda funny topic,
You guys ever try to build a car with certian custom parts? Miata guys have been screaming at Jackson Racing to build a s/c large to fill our power hungry needs but NO!!!

Trust me AGD does just fine in the R&D to prouction time line.

jb

[Koosh]

I am very patient with AGD on all but one thing, since it is probably going to be the only one I buy for a while...

WHERE ARE THE NEW HATS!!!

hehehe... I know, I know, we just told him to go with the better made flexfit hat like a week ago, but I still want one ;):p ;)

[Brak]

its because they have to deal with people like you complaining. now shut up and wait like everyone else has to

[jayloo]

Originally posted by Brak
its because they have to deal with people like you complaining. now shut up and wait like everyone else has to

Um ... bad day at work?

[speedyejl]

This might come out weird but here I go:
Why not buy some plants, or send work to locations with cheaper labor? I don't mean create sweatshops in Mexico, but there are capable machine shops in Taiwan and other places that can make quality products in quanity. Obviously we know of the knockoffs that come out of Asia (we all saw the recent thread on it) but from what I here those Fockers (like Folex/Rolex, right...) work fine and are made of the same aluminum that their state side counterparts are made of. It seems that most paintball manufacturers are located in the US and the prices of their markers would be cheaper if their plants/factories were in cheaper locales. Then again their might not be enough demand in the paintball industry to justify the costs of buying a factory in one of these areas, or getting products shipped back and forth, and deal with the logistics of getting them materials, training the laborers how to make a X-Mag, etc. I'm just wondering why not, if so, or w/e.

[SHAZAM-AGD]

many name brand paintball companies DO have their products manufactured overseas in cheaper labor areas. which in reality I feel are knock offs on their own. the new kids coming into paintball gobble up the stuff cause it has a "NAME BRAND" on it not ever knowing it was made in a sweet shop and then complain when it breaks down and their are no one locals to fix it.

what ever happened to "AMERICAN PRIDE" ??????

[shartley]

Originally posted by SHAZAM-AGD
many name brand paintball companies DO have their products manufactured overseas in cheaper labor areas. which in reality I feel are knock offs on their own. the new kids coming into paintball gobble up the stuff cause it has a "NAME BRAND" on it not ever knowing it was made in a sweet shop and then complain when it breaks down and their are no one locals to fix it.

what ever happened to "AMERICAN PRIDE" ??????
It is still there, but when you have to really compete on a global level you have to use global resources and what is best for you economically. Also, not everything that is made in a “sweat shop” is “cheaply” made. That is a fallacy that makes me laugh. I have seen some stuff made right here in the good old USA that is total crap…. and it was made by AMERICANS.

And how on earth can you call a part made out of the same materials, with the same equipment only located in a different country and the machines run by different people, “knock offs”? LOL That is just silly. That would be like saying that if you had a plant in Ohio and moved it to Texas because you could run it more cost effectively there, that the products coming off the line are “knock offs” of what they were when they were made in Ohio. LOLROF

How good a product is does not depend on WHO made it, or WHERE the parts came from. It depends on the quality control used and the company behind the product. We now live in a global business world. And a lot of folks are forgetting that the lower wages paid to foreign workers in foreign factories may be virtually nothing to US, but to THEM it is quite often quite good money. Think of it like here in the good old USA… If you made $15,000 a year in New England you would be destitute, but in Louisiana you could actually survive quite well (or at least could have when I used to live there.. LOL). ;)

It is not an issue of “American Pride”, it is a matter of economics. The other issues are simply ignorance and prejudice. Would we like everything to be made in the USA? Sure! But if it isn’t, that does not instantly make it a bad product or of less quality.

[shartley]

Originally posted by SHAZAM-AGD
the new kids coming into paintball gobble up the stuff cause it has a "NAME BRAND" on it not ever knowing it was made in a sweet shop and then complain when it breaks down and their are no one locals to fix it.
Sorry, had to comment on this one too….

People gobble up stuff that they can afford. If it has a name brand on it, all the better. B.E. does so good because they are a name brand, right? Nope. It is because they price their products at a good entry level price.

The average consumer could care less “where” a product is made, but DO care about how much they PAY for it, as well as its quality VS Price. Go out on the street and ask people this question…….

“I have this product… it now costs you $300 to buy it. What would you think if I could offer it to you for $200?”

I think most people would say that would be a good thing.

Now, let’s say that we keep the end product price the same, but YOU own the company and can get 1/3 to ½ and even up to 100% more of your product made for the same investment on your part. You mean to tell me you would not take advantage of the global workforce available to you?

Oh.. sorry… got a bit off topic there…. Back to sweat shops and lack of local techs. What on earth do they have to do with each other? If you buy an Angel and it breaks, do you have to fly to England to have it fixed? What if a Mag has a problem, do you need to get in your vehicle and drive to IL to get it taken care of?

Heck, what if you buy a BMW, Honda, or any other “foreign” car or product? Nope, sorry lack of tech support and where the product is MADE have nothing to do with each other.

[speedyejl]

Most major companies are located in the US:
Kingman- CA
Tippmann-IN
PMI-IL
AGD-IL
Smart Parts-PA
BE-AR (yes even brasseagle)
WGP-CA

I can think of more but correct me If am wrong on any.

[luke]

speedyejl,
The point was, many companies has their product made over seas where labor is cheaper, then, they sell it here in the states. Just because the company is based in the US does not mean the products are made here. ;)

Isn't Kingman Japanese owned? I wonder were their stuff is manufactured??

[speedyejl]

From what I know I am almost positive Kingman is not Japanese owned. Further more Japan is one of the most expensive places for labor. Only electronics are really made there.

[shartley]

I was under the impression that Kingman was Korean (no matter where their address states), but I am not sure. But at least they are actually “Kingman International Corp.” They put it right out in the open. ;) And as was stated, where the corporate “home office” is, does not mean that is where the product is manufactured.. or that it makes it a product of THAT country.

[luke]

:D Is this writing Japanese or Korean? >>>

http://www.kingman.com/

[shartley]

Originally posted by luke
:D Is this writing Japanese or Korean? >>>

http://www.kingman.com/
Yes. ;)

[fire1811]

quality = time

its that simple

[askman]

The kanji style of writing is used by Chinese(where it originated), korean and japanese. I don't know where kingman is made or who owns the company. You can get quality goods out of asia. All depends upon what people are willing to pay. I like the fact that I can get most bang for the bucks, but from what I've seen, best paintball markers made in US least for now with few exception.

[DjGruv]

Originally posted by fire1811
quality = time

its that simple

They out source everything anyway. Spend the $ and get the products out. You only lose $ by making people wait all the time. I know of ALOT of people that didn't buy xmags cus of the wait. Same story with the 4500FL's They took to long to come out. As far as the Xmag goes. Why have the bodies made over in Europe? Its a cnc program correct. Why not have them mass produced over here. They have far less or equal to milling as alot of the othere high end guns out there. and being that they are made of aluminum tooling costs would be very low. Cnc's cut thru aluminum like butter. I'm not trying to flame I just under stand why there is such a hold up. And since you already have the program for the Xmag bodies why not sell just a body as an upgrade in stead of the sluggos?

[Gecko]

been wondering that myself and have thought up a couple scenarios
1) AGDE owns a cnc mill that cuts most of the bodies. By having there own machine they don't have to work with an outside machine shop making things cheaper and easier to changes. I know manike has done a ton of stuff with agde on streamlining and improving thier manufacturing process. In the end it's cheaper to simply make them in england.
2) and the one i think is more plausible. AGDE is not owned by AGD and therefore AGDE own the rights to the extreme. They are simply keeping production in house becuase they own the rights. I have wondered if tom could buy a licence to the desighn and have some built here. I wonder if tom has to pay import taxes on the extreme bodies..........

[Tom Sparkman]

Originally posted by luke
speedyejl,
The point was, many companies has their product made over seas where labor is cheaper, then, they sell it here in the states. Just because the company is based in the US does not mean the products are made here. ;)

Isn't Kingman Japanese owned? I wonder were their stuff is manufactured??

It's manufactured in Taiwan. The company is based in SoCal and owned by a gentleman named Kang, who's originally from Taiwan (ethnic Chinese). Kingman started the price war when they decided to have it made in Taiwan where Mr Kang had mfg contacts. I remember my wife's F2 cost over 300 and now you can buy a stacked tube blowback for 50.

Tom

[Hexis]

Being bored at work can lead to interesting things:

KINGMAN INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION (http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C1716693)