RT overrated?

[magzown3]

Current gun setup:
Chrome p/f left mag with intelliframe & lvl10

I have had this gun for almost 7 months now and it works great. But anyways, I have actually had people huddle around and look at my gun and ask how it shoots so fast. A few ask if it a hyperframe (no, these are not noobs asking the questions) others see me playing and will yell out stuff like "rock that emag", or "holy ****". And I always have to say no, its mechanical and they are amazed. I just dont see how can an RT improve anything. The classic valve can just shoot so damn fast. Has anybody else experienced been asked that?

[Mook564]

My question is have you ever shot a RT/RT PRO/E-Mag. There is no drop off in velosity when you fire a fast string of paint. Find someone that has on and give it a try, you will see what I mean.

[old mag man]

I started with a minimag and then got an RT, and other mags. I used the RT during tournies and if and when it would act up I would grab my minimag/intelliframe and rip on people. I love the RT but I know what you are saying you about a regular valve!!

[shartley]

If you can rip that good on a standard valve, just think about what you can do with an RT. Yes, they are better. No, it isn’t hype. No they are not over rated.

[aaron_mag]

It does depend on your playing style. The classic valve worked fine for me (I don't shoot strings of paint that much) but I just had to have an RT. Now that I am used to the RT trigger, however, I would not trade it for my classic valve.

[cphilip]

If anything the RT Pro is highly underated. It is one of the nicest complete marker packages for the price out there. Highest "out of the box" ROF of any Manual marker. Now with X Valve, Level 10 and intelliframe standard.... All for a street price of about $600... You would have to pay more for any Cocker or other manual to even try and get close to this ROF. And would fail! Barrel, Foregrip, SS Line and fittings and Bottom ASA included.

Soon to be availible...aluminum bodies with Cocker thread! Can you say RTP LX ULE? YUM!!!! :)

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip
If anything the RT Pro is highly underated. It is one of the nicest complete marker packages for the price out there. Highest "out of the box" ROF of any Manual marker. Now with X Valve, Level 10 and intelliframe standard.... All for a street price of about $600... You would have to pay more for any Cocker or other manual to even try and get close to this ROF. And would fail! Barrel, Foregrip, SS Line and fittings and Bottom ASA included.

Soon to be availible...aluminum bodies with Cocker thread! Can you say RTP LX ULE? YUM!!!! :)
Wut he said! :D



;)

[magzown3]

That's nice, but if somsone's fingers cant max out the classic valve but can still achive high rof, than a rt valve is pointless.

[_Spork_1]

Originally posted by cphilip
You would have to pay more for any Cocker or other manual to even try and get close to this ROF. And would fail!

ahem....

stock 2k2 cocker, for 279, eblade fr 350=same range price of the rtpro

[a_malfunction]

he is talking about mechanical markers... and with an RT will definitely hang with an eblade cocker. I take that back, Im not sure if the cocker could hang with the RT... :)

[TheJester]

it's all about trigger feel, rt=shorter/light trigger pull...at least that's what it seems, granted i did 2 things at once, i got an intelliframe and an x-valve at the same time...it drasticly reduced the pull and hardness of the pull, oh and you get the reactiveness which is always good

[manike]

Originally posted by cphilip
If anything the RT is highly underated.

I couldn't agree more. Out of all the innovative and seriously impressive pieces of design in the paintball industry, I have to say that the RT valve is the one that impresses me the most.

It's not yet been equalled, let alone surpassed, and few people appreciate it for what it is, or what it gives them.

It's a brilliant piece of functional design. I love it!

You know, I honestly believe, if the original RT had come out with what we now call level 10... then the marker market would be very different...

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by magzown3
That's nice, but if somsone's fingers cant max out the classic valve but can still achive high rof, than a rt valve is pointless.

The RT valve will make you shoot faster

[big E kingpin]

i have both a classic and an emag/rt. i picked up my zgrip micro with a classic, and was shocked that i could rip the way i could (it had been a while). but i noticed about 6 shots into the string i was getting noticable drop off. if you told me i was hiting 10 even 12 bps i wouldnt be surprised. but i went and got me emagnum and set it on full auto 20 bps, and hit the same target everytime untill my halo was empty. so yes the rt valve is deffinetly worth it.

[Verbal138]

Before buying one you might want to check with the tourny events around your area - that is if you play tournaments - because a lot of them don't allow the RT... at least they don't in colorado.

Question for those with an RT. I teamate of mine a few years back bought one less than a year after they came out and his was ALWAYS breaking tons of balls and going down. Have they fixed that, or are they still prone to ball breaking and acting up at the wrong times? It appears by old man mags comments about "if/when it acts up..." that they still have that problem.

[Smoke]

Originally posted by Verbal138
Before buying one you might want to check with the tourny events around your area - that is if you play tournaments - because a lot of them don't allow the RT... at least they don't in colorado.

Question for those with an RT. I teamate of mine a few years back bought one less than a year after they came out and his was ALWAYS breaking tons of balls and going down. Have they fixed that, or are they still prone to ball breaking and acting up at the wrong times? It appears by old man mags comments about "if/when it acts up..." that they still have that problem.

LvL 10=NO MORE CHOPS. ENOUGH SAID.

LvL 10 my friend, LvL 10...

[Verbal138]

How did they fix it? Did they reduce the pressure?

[Smoke]

Originally posted by Verbal138
How did they fix it? Did they reduce the pressure?

Use the search feature to find alot of in depth info. The way it works is when the bolt meets any resistance, all pressure is immediatly vented, and you get a cool little <CHOOK> sound. All you gotta do is replace the powertube internals and use a different bolt. Try sticking your finger in the breach and firing, it's pretty cool.:D

(I mean it, try it! You'll be amazed!)

[shartley]

Also, the RT banned from tournaments is when it is able to sweet spot. And that is caused by things like the Tippmann RT which is DESIGNED to do that… the AGD RT is NOT. Yes, you can make an AGD RT do that, but it is actually a malfunction, not a designed aspect of the marker. Most tournaments actually CHECK the reactiveness of the trigger and not just ban them all together (as has been pointed out many times here on AO).

And as for RTs chopping…. ANY marker has the capability to chop, even LXs (if they are not set up right). And I have NEVER chopped a single ball with my RT Pro… EVER. ;) And I still have not had my LX installed (been too busy… it will go in this spring).

Oh the misconceptions and ignorance floating around out there……

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by Verbal138
How did they fix it? Did they reduce the pressure?

There are videos of it ... for some reason I cant find them though. You can see them sticking a paintball half in the breech and the bolt bouncing off of it, and a few other tests (like it wont break a dollar bill). I'll come back to this post and add the links later if I can find them.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by _Spork_1


ahem....

stock 2k2 cocker, for 279, eblade fr 350=same range price of the rtpro

Would not then be a Manual Marker now would it? And convert it back to Manuals and then would not be with that ROF. Ahem yourself.... read carefully...you wanna compare having the headache of converting to Electronics to do it? Sure fine! Wait till that electronics goes down on you...

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Verbal138
Before buying one you might want to check with the tourny events around your area - that is if you play tournaments - because a lot of them don't allow the RT... at least they don't in colorado.

Question for those with an RT. I teamate of mine a few years back bought one less than a year after they came out and his was ALWAYS breaking tons of balls and going down. Have they fixed that, or are they still prone to ball breaking and acting up at the wrong times? It appears by old man mags comments about "if/when it acts up..." that they still have that problem.

Your most likely also confusing the AGD RT with the Tippman RT. Common falacy. And its a falacy that a lot of people prefer to make for some reason.

You need to do some reading. Level 10... but sounds more like you friends cousins uncle had a feed problem and didn't know how to fix it. Nor did he know about how to maintain that marker. Sounds like he doesn't come here. They are simple to fix...

[magzown3]

Alright, i clocked my gun today. 11 bps from classic valve. I think I can push it further, maybe once i warm up or something. I'll post again if I get a higher rof. But I would say that 11 bps is VERY good. Classic valve rocks. O, and I think we all know that under fire, our bps does increase significantly. So I know I have pushed this further.

[aaron_mag]

If you are happy with your classic valve by all means KEEP it. No one on this board would argue that classic mags SUCK! I like my RT but I probably could have lived with the classic as well.

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by cphilip


Your most likely also confusing the AGD RT with the Tippman RT.

You need to do some reading. Level 10... but sounds more like you friends cousins uncle had a feed problem and didn't know how to fix it. Nor did he know about how to maintain that marker. Sounds like he doesn't come here. They are simple to fix...

Well, the rules say that "reactive triggers" will not be allowed, I don't see how there can be any confusion.

As far as my friends cousins uncle.... actually it was my team captain at the time, and he bought it when it first came out, had a 12v revy (which was then called an 18v and was the best option availble) and it would break paint even when he wasn't rapid firing.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Verbal138
Well, the rules say that "reactive triggers" will not be allowed, I don't see how there can be any confusion.

As far as my friends cousins uncle.... actually it was my team captain at the time, and he bought it when it first came out, had a 12v revy (which was then called an 18v and was the best option availble) and it would break paint even when he wasn't rapid firing.
The rules? Who's rules? NPPL? Private Tournaments? Who's?

I know they are NOT against NPPL or any large tournament's rules.

So, please explain... Who's Rules specifically state "reactive triggers" and no other distinctions?

[ben_JD]

In answer to the original question, I get a LOT of questions about the trigger and the valve and the electronics on my unelectronic ReTro Automag. I admit that I can shoot it fast, but it does draw a lot more attention than I would expect.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Originally posted by Verbal138


Well, the rules say that "reactive triggers" will not be allowed, I don't see how there can be any confusion.

As far as my friends cousins uncle.... actually it was my team captain at the time, and he bought it when it first came out, had a 12v revy (which was then called an 18v and was the best option available) and it would break paint even when he wasn't rapid firing.


Lv.10, set up well (which is easy), will never chop paint. People will say that it is still possible, but with a proper set up it is the Magic Bullet argument; Possible? Yes, but that is it. Example:

When I first set up my LX I twist locked a ball 1/2 way in the breach and emptied an 88/4500 tank worth of shots into the side of it. It didn't even warp.

Unlike low pressure systems, LX prevents chopping without sacrificing ROF. And it does a better job of it..

As far as your captains mag, there are a number of reasons he could have had chopping problems. It may have been a non-PF mag, or he may have been short stroking. He may just have had the PF plug out of alignment. With a small amount of practice you can learn to shoot chop free even without LX.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
With a small amount of practice you can learn to shoot chop free even without LX.

NOT ME MAN! I can short stroke anything. Level 10 was certainly a magic bullet for me!

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by shartley

The rules? Who's rules? NPPL? Private Tournaments? Who's?

I know they are NOT against NPPL or any large tournament's rules.

So, please explain... Who's Rules specifically state "reactive triggers" and no other distinctions?

I already said it was a local tournament, but it's the MTS in colorado. They're kind of pro-cocker out here, so that could have something to do with it. I just told him he should check with his local tournament series to make sure they don't have it banned.

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates


When I first set up my LX I twist locked a ball 1/2 way in the breach and emptied an 88/4500 tank worth of shots into the side of it. It didn't even warp.

Unlike low pressure systems, LX prevents chopping without sacrificing ROF. And it does a better job of it..

As far as your captains mag, there are a number of reasons he could have had chopping problems. It may have been a non-PF mag, or he may have been short stroking. He may just have had the PF plug out of alignment. With a small amount of practice you can learn to shoot chop free even without LX.

Sounds like they've got fixed then, which was my original question. I haven't shot a mag since 97ish, so I was curious.

If you can, could you explain how LX prevents chopping without slowing down your ROF? Isn't the whole idea that if it meets any resitance it pulls back? So that would be burning a shot, and slowing down your ROF, would it not?

What is the bolt pressure on the new mags? I know that I used to break plenty of thin shelled balls even when not rapid firing with my old minimag.

[Gunga]

Originally posted by Verbal138
If you can, could you explain how LX prevents chopping without slowing down your ROF? Isn't the whole idea that if it meets any resitance it pulls back? So that would be burning a shot, and slowing down your ROF, would it not?

What is the bolt pressure on the new mags? I know that I used to break plenty of thin shelled balls even when not rapid firing with my old minimag.

There's animations, videos, and a bunch of other stuff on the Lvl 10 at: http://www.automags.org/resource/level10/index.shtml

[ben_JD]

Originally posted by Verbal138
...could you explain how LX prevents chopping without slowing down your ROF? Isn't the whole idea that if it meets any resitance it pulls back? So that would be burning a shot, and slowing down your ROFThe whole point is that it is better to skip a shot than to have that paintball chop. Level 10 does this. Instead of slicing the ball in half and screwing up your next 20 shots, the Level 10 bolt backs off and gets that ball downrange on the next trigger pull with not paint dripping down your barrel and throwing off the accuracy of the next several shots.

Genius.

[Verbal138]

Originally posted by ben_JD
The whole point is that it is better to skip a shot than to have that paintball chop. Level 10 does this. Instead of slicing the ball in half and screwing up your next 20 shots, the Level 10 bolt backs off and gets that ball downrange on the next trigger pull with not paint dripping down your barrel and throwing off the accuracy of the next several shots.

Genius.

Yes, I know, that's why I don't don't understand how his claim that it doesn't slow down your rof can be accurate.

[Smoke]

Originally posted by Verbal138


Yes, I know, that's why I don't don't understand how his claim that it doesn't slow down your rof can be accurate.

The gun keeps cycling as long as you pull the trigger. Sure, you may get a gap in a string of paint when the LvL 10 bolt bounces off the ball, but the gun keeps firing as fast as you pull the trigger.

[hitech]

What they mean my not slowing your ROF is that the time it takes to fire a paintball with the level 10 bolt is about the same as a level 7. Provided the paintball is properly loaded (every marker reqires this, don't they?) the level 10 is capable of about the same ROF as level 7. It works by having a two stage bolt. The first stage has much less force while the second has much more. This is how the ROF is maintained.

Hope that made sense.

[ben_JD]

Also, the rate of fire of your marker in its normal use is not deteriorated by Level 10. The mechanism involved does not slow the marker down. A properly feeding Level 10 Automag can shoot just as quickly as a properly feeding Level 7 Automag. When there is a paintball in the way of the bolt (half-fed), then the Level 10 will skip that shot and reset.

If you were to take the rate of fire (number of paintballs actually fired from the marker), then Level 10 would be slightly lower if it had to reset due to a misfed paintball. I have not noticed a lower feed rate on the field and smile everytime I hear that little "pfffttt" sound: I know Level 10 just avoided chopping a paintball.

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by _Spork_1


ahem....

stock 2k2 cocker, for 279, eblade fr 350=same range price of the rtpro

ahem...

stock cocker + eblade = 11 bps at most, the stock internals can't handle past it. Even if they cycle that fast, its not good for the gun.