Phantom vs. Illusion

[Krazy Ivan]

Hey guys, I'm buying a new pump gun. I need something new, and in looking at electros, and cockers, I realized one thing. All these will do better than my mag is sling paint faster, a little easier. So why go with more paint splatter, when you can go with less cost for paint, and maybe more fun?

Now here is my dilemna, I was looking at the pumps, ans found of course the phantom, but also another 2 peaked my interest. The carter buzzard and action markers illusion, however, since the buzzard is almost $600, that's out. Then we are left with the Illusion which I've seen getting rave reviews, and the vsc phantom.

The Phantom is $260 about depending where I go.

The Illusion is $280-290 depending where I go.

Now I definetly like the look of the phantom better, however the illusion has more reviews out there that rave on and on about it than the phantom. Whereas also a lot of stock class players seem to regard the phantom as more of a cheaply made gun. Almost resembles how semi-only players regard kingman, and their spyders.

This is very disconcerting, because I grew into paintball, always marvelling about the CCI Phantom, always wanting to try one.

I need you guys to help me out, especially the guys or girls who actively take part in stock class play, which I would like to try.

I also am aware I would need to buy the adaptor for the illusion to make it stock class.

[Darkling]

Originally posted by Krazy Ivan
Now I definetly like the look of the phantom better, however the illusion has more reviews out there that rave on and on about it than the phantom. Whereas also a lot of stock class players seem to regard the phantom as more of a cheaply made gun. Almost resembles how semi-only players regard kingman, and their spyders.


Whoa....Alot of Stock players?? Sorry bro, but I don't know what you have been reading on the internet. The Phantom is regarded by almost the whole pump/stock class world and one of the greatest pumps ever, not to mention the company backing them has customer service comparable to AGD. They're light, compact, durable, simple, and the pump action is as smooth as butter (when you break it in), plus it comes stock with and autotrigger. Check out www.doropaintball.com you can get a VSC Phantom for like 250 shipped. If your looking to get into the world of stockclass, then I highly reccomed a Phantom.

Darkling

btw, check out www.stockclasspaintball.com, too, if interested. Very great site for pump and stock play.

[mykroft]

If you want to play stock class, get a phantom. If you are going to paly with constant air and a hopper, consider the Illusion (Cocker threading and Angel feeds give it a compatibility advantage).

And CCI is the AGD of the Pump world, quality-wise, although AM are pretty cool themselves.

[Krazy Ivan]

Well. I'm now getting mixed reviews here too. I did some looking around on pbnation too, they are going with the same idea that the illusion or carter is worlds past the phantom. :confused: However, I don't take the opinions of 5-year old's to heart. I do however get really messed up when i come to the holy grail of forums AO, and get 2 posts saying get the phantom, yet the only results on the poll are 2 for the illusion?!

I would play stock class, and was looking for something light, or well, comparably light. I need to have something lighter than my 11lb setup on my mag now.

A more definitive input would be much appreciated, or at least a poll result that coincides with the reply's.

[mykroft]

I voted for the Illusion (Because that's the one I want), but am a fan of the Phantom as well. For stock class, you want the phantom, it's also half the size of the illusion.

The illusion is really not intended for stock class play, unlike the Phantom.

[xen_100]

they both have thier advantages.

the illusion is a sniper II knock-off....lets not beat about the bush. it is quiet and very acurate, but it is heavier and you have to buy thier strange looking horizontal feed if you want it to be a true "stock class" marker. dont get me wrong, this is a great gun.

the phantom on the other hand it light. I mean those things weigh like 2 lbs. they get about 35 shots per 12 gram. I used mine with a 4 oz co2 alot and got 600 shots out of it. they are acurate with the stock barrel. not something you can say about most stock barrels. they are pretty quiet, but not nearly as quiet as a sniper II, but not cannons either ;) . the auto trigger is nice if you have the vertfeed model. if you get a horizonal stock class, it is next to useless, so that is not really a feature that can be used, all the time. you can break the thing down to its last washer and put it back together again in like 2 minutes.(literaly) so if it needs to be cleaned inbetween games, that is not a problem.

all in all....i vote for the phantom

[Darkling]

Sorry, I tried voting for the Phantom but I got some error message. "The action you have attempted could not be performed as your session appears to be invalid. Click the below link to attempt this action again with a new session." Anyone know what this means?

[xen_100]

just means you weren't logged in, or your login session expired. re-login and try again

[rjvemt1]

the poll is not working so diregard the lack of phantom votes!
CCI Phantoms have been around for over ten years and if you call CCI to order your phantom you talk directly to mike(i think thats him name) and he is the one who makes them so if you ever need help you can go directly to the source! it is a Nelson based gun(the set-up of the hammer and bolt)which is very reliable, easy to maintain and simple to understand. they are also super-lite and reletively gas efficient. it also has a very streamline look to it.

basicly i think the phantom is more suited for stock-class play as opposed to just pump class.

get the phantom unless money is no object, in that case get the carter(just for the uniqueness of having one)i have only seen one in 12 years of playing.

[paint magnet]

I would suggest:

Phantom VSC with .45 frame and CCI Nickel barrel

AMP Illusion

Sterling

PPS Super stocker


All of which are very nice pumps. Basically it depends on whether you want a Sheridan based gun or a Nelson based one. As a general rule Sheridans are heavier and usually lack autotriggers. Nelsons are lighter and have autotriggers. The Phantom has an amazingly light pump stroke and is lightweight due to the Nelson based design. The AMP has an ultra smooth pump stroke and is a little heavier. It also is undercocking and takes cocker barrels, which is a big plus in my book. I personally prefer Sheridan based guns (after owning both) and would go with either the AMP Illusion, a Arrow Precision Sterling or any of the Palmer's pumpers.

[paint magnet]

On a side note, Component Concepts Inc. (CCI) and Palmer's Pursuit Shop (PPS) are just about the only two companies that you can call up and speak to the designers/manufactures of the guns and owner of the company. Both of the choices you listed are awesome guns, but consider Palmers too.

[Fred]

Originally posted by Krazy Ivan
Whereas also a lot of stock class players seem to regard the phantom as more of a cheaply made gun. Almost resembles how semi-only players regard kingman, and their spyders.

Exsqueeze me???
What type of smart-parts style crack were they smoking???


I have owned two phantoms, still have one, and deeply regret trading the first one...

They are solid, just as solid as an illusion, and have been around A LOT longer. The Phantom isn't so much a marker, its a marking System. You can swap stock class to direct feed very fast, not as fast as the Illusion, but still under 5 min.

The Phantom has an Autotrigger, and is available in a myriad of setups, backbottle, bottomline, vertical air...

The stock barrel on the Phantom is awesome, and doesn't require upgrading. The Illusion barrel is nice too, but not quite as high quality.

While I like the Illusion a lot, and plan on getting one, the final finish isn't as refined as the Phantom. Give it a few years though, AM is a great up and coming company.

The only solid advantage that the Illusion holds is the barrel, which is cocker threaded, and allows for a Freak kit. Currently, the freak is not available for the phantom because the barrel has a very small outer diameter...

Don't forget PHOG.ORG, the Phantom Owners group that is actually endorsed by CCI...

BTW, (added), the Illusion looks like a Sniper (back block), but internally it is Sterling-ish... very different operation going on in there.

---Fred

[Mr.Minus]

i havent ever played with an illusion, but i love my phantom, and CCI customer service is the best in the paintball industry! :) AGD is second :)...

[halB]

i do believe the phantom is lighter...

[Coaster]

Originally posted by xen_100
they both have thier advantages.

the illusion is a sniper II knock-off....lets not beat about the bush.

in now way is the illusion a knock-off of the sniper II. The illusion has a completely different valve, and has many more features than the Sniper II(ie dual pump arm). The fact that they look the same makes people want to believe that the illusion is a knock-off of the SniperII.

If i were you, i would go with the Illusion, because of the accesories that you can put on it. If you want a double trigger, get one; a different feed tube, get one; the list goes on. People have also said that even though the illusion doesn't have an autotrigger, they are still able to fire extremely fast due to the extremely smooth pump stroke.

[Fred]

High ROF on the Illusion, and any other Non-AT pump comes down to skill and familiarity with the marker. I can shoot Non-AT with an illusion pretty fast, just by learning the right rythm.

The Phantom is a LOT lighter than the Illusion. Its a single tube design, rather than a stacked tube(inside a brick of aluminum...).

Lets not go there on the double trigger option... :rolleyes:

[Krazy Ivan]

Hold up guys. Double trigger...now WTF are you smokin'? Thanks for all your input, I'm thinkin' I'm selling off an old 98 cocker I have laying around and getting the VSC Phantom with a 45 grip. I will have to check out Palmers though. However the lightness of the phantom is drawing me toward it. Also, auto-trigger and fast ROF doesn't mean much in stock class, so I don't really consider it a selling point either way.

:D

[FalconGuy016]

Lol did you know the blade comes stock with an autotrigger :)

[Prezents]

I have an Illusion. Why?
I have played pump for the first 5 years of my 11+ years and all five with a tracer pump.
I had looked for a long time at the Phantom and then the Illusion.
I got the Illusion because:
1) I can convert from stock to regular pump in minutes.
2) more shots per 12 gram.
3) Looks I like the looks and style of the Illusion.

Hope this helps

[Spaceman613]

Id go phantom. www.bunkerboyzpaintball.com has good deals on them.

efficiency is stellar (Prezents you might have shot a badly sprung phantom, both guns are very close in the air usage area). Both can be swapped from stock to direct feed very fast, but the phantom can do right, left, and centerfeed. Cocker threads is the ONLY thing i like better about the illusion. But the CCI barrel and detent rings make it shoot very nicely.

I have 3 snipers (one is stock class) and a phantom, and 2 sterlings. Ill buy another phantom soon. Ill wait on the illusion. It not a bad gun by ANY means, I just feel the phantom is a better value. AND, with Mike's (CCI's) customer support, you will be happy.

OH, and Bunkerboyz will be selling J&J edge kits for the phantom soon, so if you need multiple bores, talk to them (yes I am biased towards them, they are very nice guys and will take alot of time to get the customer what he wants). :)

[Fred]

over all, you'll get better efficiency with the Phantom... I've gotten 40 or so shots at 280 out of a 12 gram with proper spring tuning.

[Krazy Ivan]

Hrm well. Checked out the Super Stocker, very nice, I talked to Glenn b4 during the summer, very nice guy and all. He was at D-Day at Skirmish, in PA. However I think my business will have to go to CCI!

Bunkerboyz is also now bookmarked thanks to you, I will be ordering my phantom, prolly with an urban anno, all for 287. Thanks guys!!

o, and the poll seemed to even out now, more to the opinions stated :D

[AlabamaMan]

One look at the phantom stock barrel and you will be sold i promise. I have never seen anything machined so perfectly. Infact the rest of the gun is just as sweet.

[joeyjoe367]

Anyone mind me asking what kind of threading CCI uses for their phatoms?

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Fred
over all, you'll get better efficiency with the Phantom... I've gotten 40 or so shots at 280 out of a 12 gram with proper spring tuning.

Fred, wasn't your Phantom tuned by Punisher. You will not get that kind of effeciancy out of an "out of the box" phantom.

I own two phantoms and I cannot recommend them highly enough. I did not vote because I have a lust for the Illusion however. But that's because I'm a gun 'ho and has nothing to do with actual performance.

Fact is that you can't go wrong with a phantom though. It's guaranteed happiness and satisfaction. I just can't say the same thing about the Illusion because I have had no personal experience with them.

Joeyjoe: Their threading is proprietary.

Ogre

[vdo_game_junkie]

Good decision! I haven't tried the Illusion, so I couldn't make any comparisons but I've had my Phanton for over ten years and still love it!

[Fred]

Originally posted by ogre55
Fred, wasn't your Phantom tuned by Punisher. You will not get that kind of effeciancy out of an "out of the box" phantom.


Nope, that was my first Phantom (that I traded... doh!).
It was a VSC with Microline, and i tuned it myself with a standard Nelson spring kit... :)

The UnderDogg gets 3 puffs to a 12gram... the integrated Sidewinder has way too much internal volume to use such a small air source... it does get around 450 to a 3.5 oz tank though....:D

I have a stock valve body for it, but I havn't done much with it since I play so little true stock class these days... and my bolt is loctited to allow for velocity adjustment via the Sidewinder.

---Fred

[WARPED1]

The people who told you the "phantom is like the Spyder" is friggin insane. The only other pump close in quality is the Sterling pump marker made in England.

[DogHouseDan]

The only way I could compare a Phantom to a Spyder is the following two areas:

#1 A Phantom is very popular like a Spyder.
#2 Parts a readily available for a Phantom, like a Spyder.

But that is where the similarities end and the differences start. CCI’s service is second to none and better then most. It’s reliable, accurate and you can change configurations on it more then any other marker available in its price category. If you pick a Phantom, Illusion or Sterling will be getting a quality marker with comparable accuracies. The differences are mostly in the pump and trigger operations. This is a very subjective area that comes down to each players taste. You need to try each one and see what is more comfortable to you.

[askman]

as a proud owner of automag pump, I will have to say go with mag, if you can find one. ;)

Actually, phantom has lighter stroke, and it is lighter to carry. i like it.

[paint magnet]

No offense to CCI, which is a great company but I thought the Phantom stock barrel was a piece of crap. Waaay too large a bore, caused me to get bad accuracy and rollouts. And I'll shoot you if you say to 'get a detent ring set', yes that may help with rollouts but not with paint/barrel match:)

[WARPED1]

Use bigger paint, duh. LOL.

[Krazy Ivan]

bigger paint=cheaper paint.
Pump gun=less paint..

Damn, just start saving money everywhere huh :D

[Fred]

the only rollouts I've ever had were in 40* or less weather with unusually small marbalizer.

I typically shoot RP Premium and Big Ball... cheaper, and have never let me down.

The CCI stock barrel is big, but not HUGE.

---Fred

[Shane-O-Mac]

i would prefer an illusion. it just feels much better to me, neother one has any performance advantage over the other. i had 3 phantoms and i got rid of them and have stuck with my sniper2 for over 3 years now. i will soon be getting an illusion, and was very impressed with it at the shattner ball pump game. and i own many cocker barrels and the illusion takes cocker barrels. everyone is correct, the phantom barrel is the best, but i liked my J&J ceramic on it, as the ceramic has nicer shoot clean properties. it really depends on how you like to hold/shoot your gun, and the illusion works better for me, than a phantom.
Shane-O

[madmatt151]

Well, the Phantom is a great marker, this is why I voted. But as my sig says, I have myself a Sterling. Its a STP, made before Arrow Precision bought the company. It is equalled to no other. The pump action is smooth, and dead accurate. Mine does ave an Auto Trigger, but cannot be converted to SC. I mean I guess you could, but it would be weird. There is an exact copy of mine on ebay right now. I may buy it just for the hell of it.

Looky, here's mine...

[hitmanng]

I have shot both and bought a phantom. I say like any other marker shoot them both and then decide. The illusion has a much smoother pump stroke but is much bigger and heavier. I cannot describe how light a phantom vsc is. It is a dream. A lot has to do with your style of play too. For strict stock class I would go with the Phantom. If you are looking for a pump to throw a hopper and tank on I would go with the illusion. Pure cost you can pick up a used phantom VSC for $210.00 there are no used Illusions yet.
Hitmanng

[Fred]

madmatt- your pump handle is the Aarow handle... the Proline handle is round, not rectangular.. unless I'm sorely mistaken about them.

the handle is the major difference between the old Prolines and newer ones from Aarow...

Mine is a proline, gunmetal blue, with the round handle and a brass-lined barrel. I've got a turbo valve and new bolt in it now... as well as a female stab to adjust velocity. It's pretty fast! :D

---Fred