Cocker Hypes/Myths...

[Bubonic Plauge]

First off, in no way am I bad mouthing Autocockers. I never look down upon anybody's gun. Its like saying "your baby is horribly ugly" or something. Just dont do it.

However, why do so many people swear by this gun! The debate between open and closed bolts, high pressure low pressure has long been over.

It kills me when somebody at a pro shop says they shoot farther. With the exception of quantum pyhics, (which very few people in the world understand) the laws of phyics applied to a flying paintball are the same no matter what barrel they leave.

It has always seemed to me that these mechanical guns have so many ways to go afoul. Three ways, hoses, timing..etc etc etc...How many times have you been playing rec ball and had to wait for you buddy's cocker to get "fixed."

Maybe I should make a poll, "how many times have you had to wait for a cocker to get fixed?" :)

For all those who love cockers, thats great. I love all markers. What is the enigma with these?

Egg

[recoil]

I tried an EMag
I tried an Angel
I tried a Timmy

Cocker just 'felt' right when i used it so I ordered myself an Eclipse Cocker and she rocked, now with the EBlade on she rocks more....

What can I say, theres no particular thing that makes me love my marker.... I guess its the same with anything tho, why do some people love a certain car or a certain brand...

As for your question, I have never yet had to have my Cocker fixed... it was serviced when it was EBladed but apart from that she flys....

[pbcustom98]

I dont even care anymore about what people say about other guns. I use a mag because in my mind it feels "right", not because I hate other guns. Thats why I use it.. not because it has low pressure/high pressure, or other things. I could care less about that stuff. In your mind if a Tippmann 98 feels "right" to you, then by all means use it regardless of what people say to you.

Daniel

[HoppysMag]

lol i call peoples baby's ugly... they all look like yoda.

[Xerces]

everyone knows cockers are more accurate and have longer range. i mean common sense here people :rolleyes:

[tobz]

Most of the people that you hear the cocker bs from, don't know too much about physics. You did have to use your own myth to describe a problem that all too often occurs to some people.

I hate the adage that "cockers are always broken".

I use a stock cocker, and just like the mag, they are made to rip right out of the box. I feel no need to upgrade my cocker, I get great efficiency, 8+bps with my hinge, good accuracy and the thing never falls out of time. I have no problems with re-timing my cocker. Maybe I should about every year or so, but that's about it. Basically, everyone's marker requires some maintenence, but a lot of people bring it upon themselves buy purchasing all these "great aftermarket parts" *cough* ans *cough* and then they wonder why they need to mess with their guns so much.

Most cocker people need to realize that once their gun is setup, it will probably stay setup and work great if they don't mess with it. Bah!

tobz

p.s. I own a cocker and a mag, love them both, purchasing a phantom soon.

[TheJester]

if you take care of your equipment, it won't let you down. i know a kid who has constant problems w/ his tipmann, which are known to be pretty sturdy guns, it's just cause he hasn't oiled it...like ever, and he just throws it in the trunk of his car after a game, doesn't even whipe the paint off it. all i know is, my next gun is gonna be a cocker...the new outkast to be exact

[LaW]

cockers make a cool noise because they have a moving back block.... That is soooooo cool!!! :) drool lol

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

Many cocker owners do not buy into the double headed myth, cockers shoot farther, and cockers fall apart all the time. The cocker is a complicated marker compared to many others but it is still just 2 basic operation that can further be divided into 3-4 very simple steps.

Az, when ya get your cocker (cause everyone needs one) come on down to:
www.air-powered.com

[bunkermaster10]

Yeah paintball markers are like certain brand clothes. You wear what you like and shoot what you like.

Example: Some people hate Abercrombie & Fitch but love Amercican Eagle but basically there the same thing down the road. Just like guns they can basically do the same stuff like shoot the same distance and have the same accurateness.

Get what I'm saying.

;)

[nerobro]

Hello, my name is Nero, and I shoot a cocker. *bows head*

I own a mag. I own an electrogun. I own blowbacks. I've shot the best. timmys, angels, excals, vikings, bushmasters, shockers... And NOTHING really felt as nice as a well setup cocker.

I shoot a cocker for the feel. I spent a good coupple hours tweaking my trigger to feel the way I wanted it to feel. I can't do that with a mag. Sure there's a lot I can do to a mags trigger, but I'll never get it to feel "quite" right.

As for electroguns. I have this thing for feeling what's going on in a gun. I feel detached when I don't have a mechanical trigger. Though I will admit my latest gun is an electrogun, but I do have a microswitch installed with a good strong click so I still feel like I'm shooting something.

Range, LP, and open versus closed bolt are all closed topics as far as this forum goes. :-)

As for cockers always being broken. that's the USERS fualt. cockers don't break unless the user breaks it.

in the 4 years I've owned my cocker, I've had a grand total of two things break on it. The cupseal developed a slow leak. And my rock (a brass palmer rock... yes they were made) had it's safety blow off valve re-adjust itself to a level to low to be used.

I was living with the leaky cupseal untill the timing started to finally work it's way to a level that I'd be catching paint once or twice a day.

Up untill the rock incident, my mag had required more maintnance than my cocker. And I use my mag less. Anyone who calls a cocker unreliable is putting the blame in the wrong place. OR they're using ANS pneumatics.

However. I will NEVER sell my mag. Despite not having the trigger of my dreams. With the LX installed it's a functional as I could ever want it to be. It's a permanant member of my "actively used" gun collection.

[UTLadiesMan]

First off, in no way am I bad mouthing Automags. I never look down upon anybody's gun. Its like saying "your baby is horribly ugly" or something. Just dont do it.

However, why do so many people swear by this gun! The debate ease of maintence, speed, and non-chopping has long been over.

It kills me when somebody at a pro shop says they shoot faster or don't break down as much. With the exception of quantum pyhics, (which very few people in the world understand) the laws of phyics applied to a hopper's feed rate is the same no matter what markerit enters.

It has always seemed to me that these mechanical guns have so many ways to go afoul. Valves, spacers, etc... How many times at the Dallas AO meet did I see Curtis fixing someone else's mag? (actually... I don't think a single cocker went down that day :p)

Maybe I should make a poll, "how many times have you had to wait for a mag to get fixed?" :)

For all those who love mags, thats great. I love all markers. What is the enigma with these?

UTL


;)

[314159]

re: ANuS pneumatics
http://www.speakeasy.org/~aaronw/ansram.jpg
this broke while firing my cocker over a chrono.

other than the ram, my cup seal has just devoloped a slow leak. not too bad for a 98 cocker.

for everyone that asks, what can go wrong with a mag. i bought a used automag from a store (about 4 years ago) so i would not get burned. the store was in a mall, so i could not gass it up, but because it was a repuitable buisness, i trusted them. after spending 550 on the mag, 80 on air fittings. i find my mag HAS NO SERIAL NUMBER, so agd won't deal with it. i spend 30 on getting the reg rebuilt (vented out of the back), 80 bucks total on a new sear and a new bolt (the old ones were chewed up, causing gun to double fire). so now the gun fires... but it chops 1 in every 30 shots at 1 bps rof. i swap out the body, the frame, barrels. i try v nubbins, p nubins, plastic nubins, a parabolic feed plug. and i would still chop about 1 ball in 30 at slow rofs. so, at this point having dumped 1300 into a gun, i ebay it for 340..... then the lvl 10 comes out.

well the mag has very little to adjust, on the plus side, this means that you have less to mess up by messing with it. on the downside, if your gun is truely sick, you are screwed.

[pbcustom98]

Originally posted by UTLadiesMan
It has always seemed to me that these mechanical guns have so many ways to go afoul. Valves, spacers, etc... How many times at the Dallas AO meet did I see Curtis fixing someone else's mag? (actually... I don't think a single cocker went down that day :p)

Maybe I should make a poll, "how many times have you had to wait for a mag to get fixed?" :)


Even if I do have to wait..Chances are its an oring problem and is fixed in about 5 minutes.

Daniel

[Magaholic]

Not to put you down or anything, but the serial number on a mag is right there in plain view. Most people who do any research on mags at all know that one without a serial number won't be fixed by AGD. In my opinion, $550 for a mag without a serial number, no matter what it is isn't worth it. I hope you don't give any more business to that shop 'cause that wasn't a good deal. That's really too bad that your experience with the mag family was like that. :(

As for cockers, a friend of mine plays with one. He originally had a wgp hinge trigger on it. I played a game with it and didn't like it at all. The trigger just wasn't comfortable. He's since changed to the new dye trigger. (Don't know what it's called.) I shot it just a bit the last time we went out and it's a whole new gun! Very nice indeed! Cockers can be quite effective and good looking if set up right.

[UTLadiesMan]

Originally posted by pbcustom98


Even if I do have to wait..Chances are its an oring problem and is fixed in about 5 minutes.

Daniel

An experienced cocker user should be able to fix any problems just as quickly.

[314159]

Originally posted by Magaholic
Not to put you down or anything, but the serial number on a mag is right there in plain view. Most people who do any research on mags at all know that one without a serial number won't be fixed by AGD.

well, i did not know that is where a serial number on an automag was. i had not even fired an automag up untill this point. i bought this from a local store so i would not get screwed, because i had no expierience with an automag. when i complained that they sold me an automag with the serial number polished off, they told me that they did not sell me that gun. when i told them that i had a reciept, they told me that they are not responsible for the used guns that they sell. when i asked for the information on the person selling it, they would not release it.

so, i lost about 1000 bucks on a gun that i never really got to play with. challange games can burn in hell too ;)

[Ironlance7]

Most of my friends/teamates use autocockers. I am the only one with something different, my 68 automag. Personaly I perfer the automag because with the level ten it is so soft on paint and it is a little smaller and compact. However, I am impressed with my friends' abilities to play around with their setups and adcheive things like better gas effciency. When I compare my 68 mag, (its got a dye stanless, level ten, and some basics like nitro and a revy in case you wanted to know)with eighter of my teamates Black Magics the performance is almost identical. I really can't say one is any better then the other because in accrucary, distance, price including upgrades, speed, ect. they are just to close to each other. All in all, these are just both good guns and they perform to similar to each other for a single winner to imerge. So basicaly what I am trying to say here is just shoot what you like.

[PaInTbAlLeR476]

Originally posted by pbcustom98


Even if I do have to wait..Chances are its an oring problem and is fixed in about 5 minutes.

Daniel

There is still something wrong with the gun that needs to be fixed, no matter if its an o-ring, bad sear, anything. The same thing could go wrong on ANY gun. Besides there is usually no reason that something should take longer then 15 minutes to fix, unless something is actually broken(meaning a new piece HAS to be purchades).

[pbcustom98]

Originally posted by UTLadiesMan


An experienced cocker user should be able to fix any problems just as quickly.

Any experienced (Insert Gun Name Here) user should be able to fix any problems just as quickly. Doesnt really matter the gun..Just matters whos working on it.

Daniel

[*ArKfEaR*]

Originally posted by Xerces
everyone knows cockers are more accurate and have longer range. i mean common sense here people :rolleyes:

Its true... no sarcasm. :D

[UTLadiesMan]

Originally posted by pbcustom98


Any experienced (Insert Gun Name Here) user should be able to fix any problems just as quickly. Doesnt really matter the gun..Just matters whos working on it.

Daniel

Exactly... so that arguement doesn't hold much water either. Few arguements do... really, it's all just personal prefrence.

[nerobro]

Depending on the front end setup, cockers can be a real pain to work on. Though there are other guns that are harder to diagnose. *coughs* shocker *coughs*

[twiitch]

when i first looked at cockers i was overwhelmed because people made them out to be so complicated and have a crap load of internal parts, then i got one and learnt a bit about them, really the internal is simple, sear trips hammer, hammer hits valve, valve shoots air thru hole. and other part, trigger triggers valve, valve shoots air to ram that moves back block containing bolt... incredibly simple if u think about it, its the timing that makes people think they are hard

[Punk7918]

Mags and cockers both shoot the same distance but u can buy bodys for a mag at http://www.skanline.com/detail.asp?pid=34332 (not sure if thats the site) where the body puts spin on it so it travels farther and also has a nob on it so that u can adjust how much spin u want on it

[JEDI]

Originally posted by tobz
Most of the people that you hear the cocker bs from, don't know too much about physics. You did have to use your own myth to describe a problem that all too often occurs to some people.

I hate the adage that "cockers are always broken".

I use a stock cocker, and just like the mag, they are made to rip right out of the box. I feel no need to upgrade my cocker, I get great efficiency, 8+bps with my hinge, good accuracy and the thing never falls out of time. I have no problems with re-timing my cocker. Maybe I should about every year or so, but that's about it. Basically, everyone's marker requires some maintenence, but a lot of people bring it upon themselves buy purchasing all these "great aftermarket parts" *cough* ans *cough* and then they wonder why they need to mess with their guns so much.

Most cocker people need to realize that once their gun is setup, it will probably stay setup and work great if they don't mess with it. Bah!

tobz

p.s. I own a cocker and a mag, love them both, purchasing a phantom soon.
I could reply, but tobz said it all perfectly already.:D

[tobz]

Thanks!

I owe some credit to Nerobro, he is the source for some of my knowledge.

-tobz

[Punk7918]

I always thought that cockers are a pain and that is why people hammered me about not getting one but i got one and it is so nice but i have no doubt that a mag would be no less

[Lopy-slopy]

Cockers are great if you like tinkering with your gun, cuz you have to. They can really rock but it seems like you have to be an ace airsmith to get the thing working. What with the like 80 moveing parts and timeing. I like a gun you gan just pickup and play.

[Carbon]

Its feel, its all feel. To those who know, thats what its all about. I play with the mag cause i like the way the trigger feels, solid and crisp. Mags are simple.

Cockers are RELATIVELY a little more complicated in its function, but for most well adjusted cocker shooters, the feel of a well tuned, properly functioning cocker is well worth the "risk" of things goin g afoul. For well adjusted cocker shooters know, there is a learning curve for cockers, maintenace-wise as well as shooting wise.

When cockers go afoul, for the most part, its usually user error, lack of maintence or just plain inexperience.

In any case, the type of paintball gun u play with ought to complement your playing style or your "feel" preference. Anyway thes just my $.02

[Grasshopper]

Originally posted by Lopy-slopy
Cockers are great if you like tinkering with your gun, cuz you have to. They can really rock but it seems like you have to be an ace airsmith to get the thing working. What with the like 80 moveing parts and timeing. I like a gun you gan just pickup and play.
Nah, you just need to figure out how the thing works. Taking apart and fixing something on a Tippmann 98C is alot harder than an autococker (most of the time). God, I just have these awful memories of that pulling the whole tippmann apart, the little orange anti-double ball feed jumping out onto the group, all the little pins flinging around, arrrgg... Anyhow, it is just preference. I personally love the feel of my 'Mags trigger, and that's why I use one.

[Quickling]

I bought a minimag when I first started playing, but I really wanted a cocker. I was never happy with the mag because I had been scared away from cockers. A year later I bought my 99 darkcocker brand new. SO cool. I was very happy

To me the trigger on a cocker is the best trigger I have ever used. I still shoot a slider. I love it.

Hinge triggers (be they cocker or any other gun) just dont feel right to me. And electros feel whimpy to me.. I like a trigger that pushes back on my finger.. I constantly find myself hitting that electro trigger before it has returned..

and then there is that wonderful visualy appleaing back block :)

DO I think my cocker is the badest marker in the world? No. I love a lot of guns, its just the cocker feels the best to me. TO me the sport isnt about max bps. Its about fun. Fun in the game and fun with your equipment.

[Quickling]

and one more thing, cockers are only unreliable cause people buy them and never take one moment to learn them. Once you learn how they work they are so friggin simple. Timing a mechanical cocker is 2 screws (hammer lug and 3way coupling on timing rod).

Setting your gun up to pinch is also one screw on the lpr.

very very simple to me.

I think personaly that angels are far more complex.