Lathe/Mill plastic ULE?

[AutomagBoy]

I wonder if it is possible to lathe and mill together a plastic ule? lexan could be used it can with stand wear pretty well and is very durable to shock. Lexan is the 1/16" thick stuff used in HIKING water bottles not the cheap soft water bottles.


Well what do you guys think? Is it possible? a clear, light, and durable ule!?!?!?

[shartley]

Yes, you can lathe and mill plastic…. But I would not want to count on its durability… for a Super Soaker, sure…. But a paintball marker? Not for me, no thank you.

I seem to also recall someone making a clear plastic marker in the past and the actual manufacturer asking them to stop because of reliability and strength issues.

(Added… not to mention that plastics can be molded, so why bother running them on a mill?)

[rdb123]

Originally posted by petefol
i think there was a thread about this in deep blue awhile ago, and plastic wouldnt be strong enough to support the bolt spring when the gun is fired.

Heh, makes me wondering about that plastic Empire barrel I saw on an Angel LCD at my local field for sale on the wall. ;)

[WARPED1]

Lexan is bulletproof, I think it'd hold up just fine on a pb field...............

[shartley]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Lexan is bulletproof, I think it'd hold up just fine on a pb field...............
Just being bulletproof is not in itself a good judge of how a material will be for other uses. A flat featureless piece of lexan is a lot different than a carved piece of lexan. You also have thickness issues as well.

I will leave it at that.

[hitech]

Plastics (esp. "Lexan") have poor "wear" resistance, among other things. Remember, strenght is rated in many different ways.

[rux21]

hmm..
I went to the pbexpo in Pomona a while back and they had an autococker in which the body was in a clear plastic. I guess it was lexian... I wonder if that was just for show or it was actually for use. They never really shot it. But I've been interested in that idea ever since..

It sure would be neat to see though. I'd like to shoot a clear plastic gun. Aside from a BE stingray or tiger shark.... :D

-rux

[rehme]

hey if a talon can hold up then a mag can hold up then:p j/k and plus i dont want my gun to melt in the car

[FlipShot]

Originally posted by hitech
Plastics (esp. "Lexan") have poor "wear" resistance, among other things. Remember, strenght is rated in many different ways.
ok here it goes, Strenght properties : Strain, Stress, Strenght, Stiffness, Hardness, Toughness, Elasticity, Ductility, Malleability, Fatigue and Creep.

[Cristobal]

Originally posted by FlipShot

ok here it goes, Strenght properties : Strain, Stress, Strenght, Stiffness, Hardness, Toughness, Elasticity, Ductility, Malleability, Fatigue and Creep.

There's the engineer:D

Its funny that this thread came up, because I have been considering whether it might be feasible to mill a custom see-through automag body.

What I think is being missed is that there are LOTS of different plastics that have widely varrying material properties. Plastic gets a bit of a bad rep (ie supersoakers ;) ), but that shouldn't automatically disqualify them from use. It is quite possible that there is a plastic out there that would work quite well... its just a matter of doing some investigation.

As an example of how even similar plastics differ consider the following: Lexan and Plexiglas are two of the most common see-through plastics other there. They're readily available and its near impossible to tell them apart just by looking at them. I can tell you from experience machining them though, that there is a significant difference between the two. Acrylic (Plexiglas) is harder but more brittle and will shatter like glass. You can get a near-perfect finish with the right speed and feed rate and cutting fluid, but you have to be careful because if you go too fast or try and take off too much it'll chip. Polycarbonate (GE trademark = Lexan), although not as hard is in a way stroger because its not as brittle or likely to chip or shatter; it will deform more than plexiglas -- which also means you have to be a bit more careful when clamping it in the vise.

Whether or not a see-though body from either of them or some other plastic would actually be advisable for more than a glorified paperweight to display on Tom's bookshelf, I don't know. I've been meaning to look up all the good info on their mechanical properties, but haven't got around to it yet. I also have to find time to finish my other milling projects ;)

[aut911]

you might be able to use delrin or nylon. they both have exellent wearability characteristics when it comes to hat were dealing with here.

How long has AGD used plastic grip frames anyways? i think that is ABS, not sure though.

im thinking about making a foregrip out of a peice of delrin that i found (not gas thru) and im sure it will hold up no problem.

the rambling stops here.
aut

[TheJester]

lexan may be bullet proof....but you can take a sheet of lexan, bend and break it in 1/2. you could use delrin...kinda expensive though nylon i think would be too soft

[JEDI]

I gotta believe you could definitely make a mag or other marker, out of plastic. Cristobal mentioned an interesting point. There are a lot of different plastics out there. I rode a 13 mile crosscountry Mt. bike ride on a full suspension, plastic bike.(mono-plastic)The frame, the main rear swing arm of the bike, and the seat post was engineered plastic. All of the mechanical parts(shocks, drivetrain, forks) were fastened right to the plastic. I weigh 212. The trail consisted of 4 foot drop offs. Do the math. I think plastic would work.

[rux21]

This is actually very interesting. I wonder if TK has ever considered making a "see-thru" mag.
Another question:
Could you possible surround the internals of a gun in a "harder" metal and then coat the outside with a hard plastic giving it a sort of see through look, but still maintiaining the strenght?
Or would that just be to bulky?

[shartley]

And then you have to ask…. Is it WORTH it even if you COULD? I would not bother if it was my company. Why retool and change operations for something that is not only NOT needed, but would really not add that much to your line of products. (at least at THIS point in time) Some may disagree with the part about adding much to the line of products, but that is a personal thing.

[DWill]

I think it could be done using more oriented plastics. traditional plastics are made up of carbon atom chains. This chain is long and has repeating subunits called monomers,which are chemically bonded to eachother to form polymers. Traditional plastics are just a random mass of entangled molecules but oriented plastics molecules are lined up, then the polymers are lined up in a parallel fashsion. These plastics are 10x stronger than other plastics, stiffer than steel and more conductive than copper. Im sure it can be done, especially in the future when more plastics are discovered, which isn't difficult and could be done in the near future.

[Temo Vryce]

I can remember talk to a friend of mine a few years, who at the time was working in a plant that made engine blocks for Ford. He was talking about to different types of Plastic Polymers that they were trying to combined to make a new engine block. The first was tougher than steel and the second had a stupidly high melting point. We have the ability to make the right polymers but why take the Mag, which is perfect, and change it?

[Cristobal]

As far as I'm concerned, I'd almost rather AGD didn't make any see-though mag bodies... that way if I made one it would be unique :D

Also, here are two good websites for understanding polymers. The first will be especially good for anyone who wants to an easy to read intoduction to the different properties of "strength"

Mechanical Properties of Polymers (http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/mech.htm)
Abbreviation Guide to Polymers (http://www.theotherpages.org/abbrev.html)

[aut911]

honestly, because people get tired of the same old thing.

people change because they like it, not because its nessesary. Why do you think people are removing material from their paintball guns. to make them look better? possibly. To make them lighter? mabye, but think of this.taking of an ounce or two from a body rail isnt going to do anything noticable except make that rail about as strong as a coke can. People that want as light a gun as possible can go ahead and shell out the clams but im keeping my solid stainless classic valve because i like it.

If your trying to get to the fifty faster, lift some weights, get off your butt and do some excersise and lose a couple pounds off of you.

not that i have room to talk.

aut

[Fatjon]

What ever happened to frymarkers plastic zgrip?

[shartley]

Originally posted by Fatjon
What ever happened to frymarkers plastic zgrip?
Tom expressed worries about stress and durability, and she only offered them as decorative pieces from that point on.

[AutomagBoy]

sooo will it or wont it work?

[MarkM]

Originally posted by rux21
hmm..
I went to the pbexpo in Pomona a while back and they had an autococker in which the body was in a clear plastic. I guess it was lexian... I wonder if that was just for show or it was actually for use. They never really shot it. But I've been interested in that idea ever since..

It sure would be neat to see though. I'd like to shoot a clear plastic gun. Aside from a BE stingray or tiger shark.... :D

-rux

Was this the one you were thinking about?

[spydervenom]

how can you guys(some) say that delrin is a better choice than lexan?

lexan is scratch resistent so it wont scratch up when it is used(relative)

and at 1/4 inch thick lexan will be strong enough where you cant bend it by hand.


i took a hammer to a sample of lexan and it bent lightly, scratched none at all and breaking wasn't even thought of.

[sneakyhacker420]

clear things are cool... i'd buy a plastic body if they made one... and it was proved to be strong enough... even just a clear body rail would be pretty cool... wouldnt that be a possibility



or instead of a mainbody on a rail where it has to be thinner in places... make it like the MicroMags, with the thicker, square body, which would make it stronger :eek:


or, hell, cut some slots in the mainbody and put some little plastic windows in it near the breech and stuff, the metal would support the main parts... but lexan windows for coolness :p


just some of sneaky's ideas... i've seen acrylic(sp) drop fowards made by tysonmanchado, and if they can support a tank being bounced up and down for days and days of play... then lexan would probably hold up to the demmands of paintball... but could it hold the bolt retainer and stuff?

[rux21]

Yep .. thats the one!
Rock on!!
Does that thing work or is it just to show how the internals work?


Originally posted by MarkM


Was this the one you were thinking about?

[Statik7]

you can lathe plastic? thats like saying you can wrench a bolt.
you arent a machinIST

[Statik7]

oh and... if it can fit into a vise or jaws, it can be machined.

[sneakyhacker420]

it may be ugly, but it would be hella light... but a carbon fiber trigger frame, body, and rail


hell, if a carbon fiber grip frame can support a car, then it can hold the bolt back from harpooning the family cat

[MarkM]

Originally posted by rux21
Yep .. thats the one!
Rock on!!
Does that thing work or is it just to show how the internals work?



No idea if it works, though if you look at the width of the feedneck it would be fair to assume that is was made to work since if it was just for show why would you have the feedneck that thick?

[magmonkey]

I built a laxan cocker for display at a local shop

it is interseting to see the internal workings, but it is

not somthing I built with the idea to bring it on the

field. I never finished the air passages so the gun

couldn't be gassed up. there are alot of forces working on

a marker and I really didn't want the liability of making

it function out a material I was not 100% about.

Gliney the mag monkey

Mass Destruction

Destructive Customs

P.S. I had thought about building a non functioning mag out of laxan just the have.