help dead trigger L10

[Richter]

I installed my way back when but now it has a dead trigger
i talked about in this thread:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57971

here is the details from the thread:
"I installed level 10 today on my old automag cf21***; it took me about 2 hours to do. I highly suggest that anyone with an older valve not to do the quick installation because all i did was ruin the oring on carrier with two grooves on it and 2 shims. This marker wanted the smallest carrier (the one without markings), it took one shim and the orignal bolt spring; it was the only spring it liked.

I shot it with paint in sub 30 degree weather out on the back porch. I shot paint that broke usually with a three to 4 bounces. I had some paint that was on the 1 and 2 bounce test. mind you i didn't take ten of them and average the bounce; i took two or three and gave them the bounce test. I shot some out of round almost year old hot pink advantage rp, some old tc, some old diablo rec sport, some generic white box cheap crap, and some old misc.
"

so the trigger is dead some of the time; but sometimes it leaks (down the barrel i beleive); sometimes it "coughs"
and leaks down the barrel. I did turn up the velocity nut up decently far and it would fire once then cough or do nothing.

tried 2 shims instead of one and still nothing.

I have a little under 2000 psi in a PMI pure energy 88 4500 tank so i should be good for input pressure. I am running it to a hose to a proconnect so i don't waste air unscrewwing the tank from the asa all the time.

I'll tinker with it and my new xvalve all this week to see if i can get them going.

Any help appreciated.

take it easy
Shane

[Smokee_2_7]

First off, could you please define "dead trigger".

Do you mean that the trigger has tension, but dosent fire the gun? or that the trigger is hanging loose, like when the marker is not gassed up?

for the moment Im going to assume that you are talking about the former possibility.

First off, there's a couple things that could be causing this. A carrier that causes the o-ring to be too tight can cause you to have to 'pump' (i.e. pull several times before anything happens) the trigger to get it to fire- - sometimes if you keep firing rapidly it will continue to work, but as soon as you stop shooting for more than a couple seconds you will have to 'pump' the trigger again before it starts up. This falls under the gun firing unreliabily. The textbook level 10 fix is to increase the size of the o-ring carrier. Go up a half size, and see what happens. Remember you are trying to find the largest size that dosen't leak. (NOTE: OR, go to the first size that DOES leak- - if this fixes your problem, then get back to me- - there's a quick fix for this)

Secondly, the velocity being too low. Im not inclined to think this is the case, provided that you haven't messed with the settings of the gun since it was working right. Crank it up until the gun fire's reliably, or until the reg. starts leaking out the back. Note what spring you are using. .

Third,

you're air system. Make sure that you are getting good enough air flow to the gun. This can be caused by a couple things. the most simple to check is if you have a screw in tank, with an on/off on your asa. Make sure that the on/off knob on the ASA is NOT screwed down all the way- - it will generally cause a cutoff of the airflow from the tank to gun. This manifests itself by starving the reg, and yeiilding nasty cases of drop-off, as well as intermittent firing (first shot fires, anything following that one faster than 3 BPS causes the gun to 'choke'-- the lvl 10 venting and farting. ) This is because the second shot is not at full pressure due to the starvation, and literally dosent have enough force to overcome the mainspring tension. I know it sounds simple-- but i've done this before, and I had a customer swear to me that his x-valve was getting bad dropoff LAST WEEK- - nope, he had his ASA knob screwed in too far.


Next, try someone elses air system. Make sure that yours is supplying air fast enough to the gun. sometimes nitro tank regs break down, and cause this problem.



This should get you started in the right direction. Let me know what you find out.

Carl

[Dayspring]

Something else to consider is that you have to oil the Level 10. If not, there is too much friction between the piston and the oring.

Also, running a Zero carrier to start off is somewhat tight. My suggestion is to try another oring and restart the process. The reason I say this is b/c that oring is going to break in and leak, and running a zero carrier, you can't move down a size.

[Smokee_2_7]

Dayspring,

I would agree. . . there's a good possibility that the 0 carrier is not the right one. Change the o-ring, and start again--- this time with a 1.5 or so, then work from there.

One thing I eluded to in my first post about leaks with lvl 10: In most of the lvl 10 installs ive done (about a dozen or so) I've seen this little thing occur- You get what should be the right sized carrier in there, but you still get a small leak. Before you move down to a potentially too small carrier, try turning the field strip screw in a little bit with a 1/8 allen wrench. You should notice that the leak changes in pitch. Try going the other way with the screw (loosen) if the leak gets worse. In most cases, you'll find the magical point where everything lines up just right, and the leak will go away.

Carl

[Richter]

thank you guys i'll give it a shot; i'll up the carrier and start over. as for the dead trigger yes some times there is nothing then if you pump the trigger it seems to have air behind it and then it might shoot once and it starts all over again.
again thank you

[Dayspring]

Actually- try a totally new oring. I had to do that on my Xmag. It happens sometimes.

[sneakyhacker420]

re-read the LX installation guide (see my signature)

make sure that the carrier/o-ring is not a loose fit on the bolt stem, not a tight fit, but a fit that allows your fingers with a bit of force, be able to move the carrier up and down the smaller diameter of the LX bolt stem


also, remember that mags absolutely LOVE oil... put 6 drops of oil in the PT then move your bolt up and down to coat the o-ring, then dryfire about 100 rounds without a barrel to spread the oil on o-rings and cycle out the extra so that it doesnt slick up your barrel

[Richter]

lots of oil and a few carriers larger and it works! thanks

[Smokee_2_7]

lol. that's what we're here for.

You're welcome

Carl